Science > Physics > Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms?
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Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Radium" |
| Date: |
03 Jun 2007 04:52:33 PM |
| Object: |
Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Thanks,
Radium
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 08:51:33 PM |
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"DC sine-wave"? Wow, that's a new one! :-)
Been in to the 'wacky weed' again, RADIUM?
On a more serious note, DC voltages not uncommonly fluctuate, and
somtimes the fluctuation is in the form of a sine wave. The hum that
you hear on a very old radio resulting from degradation of the filter
capacitors is indicative of a DC voltage encountering a sine-wave
perturbation in the voltage level, but never crossing zero...else of
course if it did it would be AC, and to our benefit the rectifier
prevents this from happening, unless it too fails and the radio blows
up before your eyes.
Ever consider visiting a library (a large building filled with books),
or learning how to employ Google?
Harry C.
On Jun 3, 5:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Thanks,
Radium
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| User: "Zagan" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 12:45:30 PM |
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"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180907553.885341.76920@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Thanks,
Radium
By "DC sine-wave" I assume you mean a voltage that varies in such a way as
to never drop below 0 volts. Whatever the case, the current will depend on
the resistance of the medium to which the voltage is applied (ohm's law).
"1-electron-per-minute" means an extremely high resistance which your body
does not possess. I don't think "1-electron-per-minute" will hurt you or
even be noticed by you, but the voltage, DC or AC, would have to be very
low, a very small fraction of a volt. The voltage you state would product
several amps of current in your body and certainly kill you.
// Jim
http://members.atlantic.net/~jcd/
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| User: "Radium" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 12:55:14 PM |
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On Jun 4, 10:45 am, "Zagan" <m...@somewhere.org> wrote:
The voltage you state would product
several amps of current in your body.
Really? Stun guns and air-tasers seem to be able to provide extremely
high-voltage, yet extremely weak-amperage electric shocks. How does
that work?
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| User: "Zagan" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 01:26:18 PM |
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"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180979714.672579.117590@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 4, 10:45 am, "Zagan" <m...@somewhere.org> wrote:
The voltage you state would product
several amps of current in your body.
Really? Stun guns and air-tasers seem to be able to provide extremely
high-voltage, yet extremely weak-amperage electric shocks. How does
that work?
I would suppose that some kind of current limiting is built into the device.
Exactly how I don't know.
// Jim
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| User: "Lyrklaunavan" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
06 Jun 2007 04:04:46 AM |
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On Jun 4, 9:55 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 4, 10:45 am, "Zagan" <m...@somewhere.org> wrote:
The voltage you state would product
several amps of current in your body.
Really? Stun guns and air-tasers seem to be able to provide extremely
high-voltage, yet extremely weak-amperage electric shocks. How does
that work?
Principles of operation
Electroshock weapon technology uses a temporary high-voltage low-
current electrical discharge to override the body's superficial muscle-
triggering mechanisms. The recipient is immobilized via two metal
probes (darts) connected via metal wires from the electroshock gun
usually penetrating the human skin, and superficial muscle. The
recipient that is 'connected' to an electroshock gun feels great pain
and can be momentarily paralyzed (only so long as there is an
electrical current being applied) because his muscles are receiving
electrical 'shock'. The (relatively) low electric current must be
pushed by (relatively) high voltage to overcome the electrical
resistance of the human body. The resultant 'shock' is caused by
muscles twitching uncontrollably, appearing as muscle spasms. However,
because the amount of current is relatively low, there is considered
to be a 'margin' of safety by a number of medical experts. Experts
generally agree that this margin is highly dependent on the overall
health of the person subjected to the shock.
In current electroshock weapon models, the current is relatively low
(2.1 mA to 3.6 mA) which is based in part on the electrical supply,
(for example M-26 Taser models use eight AA batteries). Electrical
current above 10 mA at 60Hz AC is considered to be potentially lethal
to humans, though not all electroshock weapons pulse the current at 60
Hz.
The internal circuits of most electroshock weapons are fairly simple,
either based on an oscillator, resonant circuit and step-up
transformer or diode-capacitor voltage multipliers to achieve the
continuous, direct or alternating high-voltage discharge may be
powered by one or more 9 V battery depending on manufacturer, and
model. The output voltages without external "load" (which would be the
target's body) are claimed to be in the range of 50 kV up to 900 kV,
with the most common being in the 200 to 300 kV range. However since
air has a dielectric breakdown (Emax) of 3000000 V/m, it is clear that
the spacing of the electrodes will not permit the upper range of
claimed voltages (900kV representing a minimum electrode spacing of
about 30cm). The output current upon contact with the target will
depend on various factors such as target's resistance, skin type,
moisture, bodily salinity, clothing, the electroshock weapon's
internal circuitry and battery conditions.
According to the many sources, a shock of half a second duration will
cause intense pain and muscle contractions startling most people
greatly. Two to three seconds will often cause the subject to become
dazed and drop to the ground, and over three seconds will usually
completely disorient and drop an attacker for at least several seconds
and possibly for up to fifteen minutes.[citation needed]
from wikipedia
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| User: "Michael A. Terrell" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock --symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 11:38:12 PM |
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Zagan wrote:
By "DC sine-wave" I assume you mean a voltage that varies in such a way as
to never drop below 0 volts. Whatever the case, the current will depend on
the resistance of the medium to which the voltage is applied (ohm's law).
"1-electron-per-minute" means an extremely high resistance which your body
does not possess. I don't think "1-electron-per-minute" will hurt you or
even be noticed by you, but the voltage, DC or AC, would have to be very
low, a very small fraction of a volt. The voltage you state would product
several amps of current in your body and certainly kill you.
No big loss. Radium is a brain dead troll, anyway.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 04:54:39 PM |
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In article <1180907553.885341.76920@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
There's no substitute for experiment....
--
COOSN-174-07-82116: Official Science Team mascot and alt.astronomy's favourite
poster (from a survey taken of the saucerhead high command).
Official maintainer of the supra-cosmic space fluid pump (Mon and Tues only).
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 05:15:03 PM |
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In sci.physics.electromag Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Nothing as there is no such thing as a "DC sine-wave electric current".
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "Radium" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 11:09:36 PM |
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On Jun 3, 3:15 pm, wrote:
Nothing as there is no such thing as a "DC sine-wave electric current".
By "sine-wave" I meant an electric current, whose amperage/voltage
changes smoothly. Starts at zero and smoothly increases to max* -- or
the desired -- voltage/amperage.
*Max = 6.2 x 10^18 volts, amperage of 1-electron-per-minute
Any change in voltage/amperage is smooth. It maybe rapid but its
smooth like a sine wave.
Voltage starts at zero and within 10 seconds, increases to 6.2 X 10^18
volts in a smooth manner resembling a spline curve. No spikes. No
square waves. No sharp changes.
What would happen to me if I was shocked by this electricity?
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| User: "Don Kelly" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 09:18:45 PM |
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----------------------------
"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180930176.831910.113950@r19g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 3, 3:15 pm, wrote:
Nothing as there is no such thing as a "DC sine-wave electric current".
By "sine-wave" I meant an electric current, whose amperage/voltage
changes smoothly. Starts at zero and smoothly increases to max* -- or
the desired -- voltage/amperage.
*Max = 6.2 x 10^18 volts, amperage of 1-electron-per-minute
Any change in voltage/amperage is smooth. It maybe rapid but its
smooth like a sine wave.
Voltage starts at zero and within 10 seconds, increases to 6.2 X 10^18
volts in a smooth manner resembling a spline curve. No spikes. No
square waves. No sharp changes.
What would happen to me if I was shocked by this electricity?
Depends
If you have this voltage applied, then you will experience more than 1
electron/minute. If the current is limited to 1 electron/minute, then the
voltage that you experience will be immeasurably small -as will be the
shock. Between voltage and current, there is another factor- impedance.
That is something that you seem to have ignored.
Might I politely suggest that you learn some basic electrical facts before
making "what ifs?"
By the way, sine wave implies far more than "smooth" If you intend "smooth"
then say so.
--
Don Kelly
remove the X to answer
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 12:15:02 AM |
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In sci.physics.electromag Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 3, 3:15 pm, wrote:
Nothing as there is no such thing as a "DC sine-wave electric current".
By "sine-wave" I meant an electric current, whose amperage/voltage
changes smoothly. Starts at zero and smoothly increases to max* -- or
the desired -- voltage/amperage.
*Max = 6.2 x 10^18 volts, amperage of 1-electron-per-minute
How could something in discreate, once a minute steps be smooth?
Babbling loon.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "Salmon Egg" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electricshock -- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 11:35:03 PM |
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On 6/3/07 2:52 PM, in article
1180907553.885341.76920@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com, "Radium"
<glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Thanks,
Radium
You are not going to get any smarter.
-- Support the troops. Impeach Bush. Oh, I forgot about Cheney.
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| User: "PD" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 04:32:27 PM |
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On Jun 3, 4:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Thanks,
Radium
A voltage is not something that is supplied out of a bucket or a hose.
It is a number associated with the *difference* in potential between
two places. For example, your AC socket at home generates 120V
difference (US) between the left socket hole and the right socket
hole. A tazer generates high voltage between the terminals of the
taser.
If there were a potential difference of 6x10^18 V between one side of
your body and the other side of your body, all of the atoms in between
those two points would immediately dissociate, with the electrons
running very quickly toward one of those points and the protons
running toward the other point, leaving a very large hole in between
those two points. In doing so, of course, there would be substantially
more current than one electron per second, and there is not a damn
thing you could do to stop it. In other words, there is no way
possible to put 6x10^18 V across a block of material medium some tens
of centimeters thick and limit the current to one electron per second.
PD
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| User: "Don Kelly" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 09:31:36 PM |
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"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180992747.827981.154400@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 3, 4:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Thanks,
Radium
A voltage is not something that is supplied out of a bucket or a hose.
It is a number associated with the *difference* in potential between
two places. For example, your AC socket at home generates 120V
difference (US) between the left socket hole and the right socket
hole. A tazer generates high voltage between the terminals of the
taser.
If there were a potential difference of 6x10^18 V between one side of
your body and the other side of your body, all of the atoms in between
those two points would immediately dissociate, with the electrons
running very quickly toward one of those points and the protons
running toward the other point, leaving a very large hole in between
those two points. In doing so, of course, there would be substantially
more current than one electron per second, and there is not a damn
thing you could do to stop it. In other words, there is no way
possible to put 6x10^18 V across a block of material medium some tens
of centimeters thick and limit the current to one electron per second.
PD
------------------
You have summarised it very nicely in language that anyone can understand!
Good on you!
--
Don Kelly
remove the X to answer
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| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock-- symptoms? |
05 Jun 2007 01:06:37 AM |
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Don Kelly wrote:
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180992747.827981.154400@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 3, 4:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Thanks,
Radium
A voltage is not something that is supplied out of a bucket or a hose.
It is a number associated with the *difference* in potential between
two places. For example, your AC socket at home generates 120V
difference (US) between the left socket hole and the right socket
hole. A tazer generates high voltage between the terminals of the
taser.
If there were a potential difference of 6x10^18 V between one side of
your body and the other side of your body, all of the atoms in between
those two points would immediately dissociate, with the electrons
running very quickly toward one of those points and the protons
running toward the other point, leaving a very large hole in between
those two points. In doing so, of course, there would be substantially
more current than one electron per second, and there is not a damn
thing you could do to stop it. In other words, there is no way
possible to put 6x10^18 V across a block of material medium some tens
of centimeters thick and limit the current to one electron per second.
PD
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You have summarised it very nicely in language that anyone can understand!
Good on you!
One electron per minute with 6.2 x 10^18 of potential will create this
kind of havoc?
I come up with about 3 joules/second. What is so hard to see that Radium
is a stupid troll? Stupid is the operative........ Maybe he is not so
dumb??????? Scary....
Or is those that are trolled are stupid????????
You do the math.........
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| User: "Justintruth" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
05 Jun 2007 01:08:41 AM |
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Electrons can be accelerated with electric or non-electric forces. The
electron also can be accelerated at an arbitrary distance from your
body as long as it arrives with the voltage you have specified. So the
issue of haveing a voltage difference accross your body is not
relevant. There is no need to have a potential difference accross your
body.
(I am assuming that DC means direct current and am ignoring "sine
wave"). The voltage of the electron is the Joules/columb that the
electron posseses. Joules is a measure of energy and columbs is a
measure of charge.
The charge on an electron is 1.60218E-19 columbs so the energy of an
electron that has a voltage of 6.20E+18 Volts is
6.20E+18 Joules/Columb * 1.60218E-19 columbs = 0.993349405 Joules
(unless I am mistaken which is probable as the back of my envelope is
covered with other writing - suspiciously close to one?).
Now you are receiving one of these electrons every minute so the
joules/sec are 0.993349405 Joules / 60 sec =0.016555823 joules / sec
So the wattage that you receive is about .017 watts because a watt is
1 joule/sec. Thats significantly less than a 100 watt lighbulb.....
017/100 = .00017 times as much - meaning very much less than an
electric light bulb (admittedly its a different species of radiation
and that makes a difference but the power is still very low)
Also that is not necessarily the rate that energy is deposited in your
body but it is an upper bound.
So my vote is no you don't die (at least you don't die right away). If
you stay there long enough? I think the folks at Oak Ridge Tenessee
are the ones who could really answer this since they have studied the
biological effects of radiation.
Given the low energy and number of atoms in your body.....I think you
live....
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| User: "PD" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
05 Jun 2007 06:02:18 AM |
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On Jun 5, 1:08 am, Justintruth <truth.jus...@gmail.com> wrote:
Electrons can be accelerated with electric or non-electric forces. The
electron also can be accelerated at an arbitrary distance from your
body as long as it arrives with the voltage you have specified. So the
issue of haveing a voltage difference accross your body is not
relevant. There is no need to have a potential difference accross your
body.
(I am assuming that DC means direct current and am ignoring "sine
wave"). The voltage of the electron is the Joules/columb that the
electron posseses. Joules is a measure of energy and columbs is a
measure of charge.
The charge on an electron is 1.60218E-19 columbs so the energy of an
electron that has a voltage of 6.20E+18 Volts is
6.20E+18 Joules/Columb * 1.60218E-19 columbs = 0.993349405 Joules
Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but this is still not right. An electron
doesn't "have" a voltage of 6.2E18V. It can acquire a certain kinetic
energy (I haven't checked your number) by traveling through a region
across which there is a potential *difference* of 6.2E18V. Voltage
expresses the *difference* in potential between two *locations*. It is
not a property that a traveling electron carries with it.
(unless I am mistaken which is probable as the back of my envelope is
covered with other writing - suspiciously close to one?).
Now you are receiving one of these electrons every minute so the
joules/sec are 0.993349405 Joules / 60 sec =0.016555823 joules / sec
So the wattage that you receive is about .017 watts because a watt is
1 joule/sec. Thats significantly less than a 100 watt lighbulb.....
017/100 = .00017 times as much - meaning very much less than an
electric light bulb (admittedly its a different species of radiation
and that makes a difference but the power is still very low)
Also that is not necessarily the rate that energy is deposited in your
body but it is an upper bound.
So my vote is no you don't die (at least you don't die right away). If
you stay there long enough? I think the folks at Oak Ridge Tenessee
are the ones who could really answer this since they have studied the
biological effects of radiation.
Given the low energy and number of atoms in your body.....I think you
live....
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| User: "Justintruth" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
06 Jun 2007 11:30:02 PM |
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Yea you are right I think. I think that technically the electron has
an energy that can be expressed in electron-volts. However, since in
this case there is only 1 electron the number of volts will be equal
to the number of electron-volts - in a sloppy sense. It would be more
precise to say the electron had an energy of ___ electron-volts
instead of saying it "had a voltage" which does not really make sense.
By "having a voltage of ___" I meant "having an energy of ___ electron-
volts.
There is another sense also of "having a voltage". It is like a ball
having potential energy in a sense. We say that a ball "has potential
energy" but technically that is only in relation to some force field
that it might fall in that the potential exists. (Perhaps we should
say that "having a potential" is "not having an actual"? ;) Maybe,
instead of potential energy and kinetic energy we should say actual
energy and potential energy. But I think that it actually "has" it
because you don't have to pull on it to get it to go kinetic. ) It is
always relative to some imagined ground. So does the ball "have"
potential energy? If so - in a sense an electron can "have a voltage"
or an "electric potential" in relation to some electric field.
I think that the original post, and the question about damage, implied
that what was of interest was the kinetic energy of the electron and
so it is not right to say "had a voltage" because that phrase refers
to its potential energy/q vice kinetic energy which actually has an
effect on the body.
I still think that being hit by an electron stream does not require
you to have a voltage across your body.
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| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock-- symptoms? |
07 Jun 2007 12:25:55 AM |
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Justintruth wrote:
Yea you are right I think. I think that technically the electron has
an energy that can be expressed in electron-volts. However, since in
this case there is only 1 electron the number of volts will be equal
to the number of electron-volts - in a sloppy sense. It would be more
precise to say the electron had an energy of ___ electron-volts
instead of saying it "had a voltage" which does not really make sense.
By "having a voltage of ___" I meant "having an energy of ___ electron-
volts.
There is another sense also of "having a voltage". It is like a ball
having potential energy in a sense. We say that a ball "has potential
energy" but technically that is only in relation to some force field
that it might fall in that the potential exists. (Perhaps we should
say that "having a potential" is "not having an actual"? ;) Maybe,
instead of potential energy and kinetic energy we should say actual
energy and potential energy. But I think that it actually "has" it
because you don't have to pull on it to get it to go kinetic. ) It is
always relative to some imagined ground. So does the ball "have"
potential energy? If so - in a sense an electron can "have a voltage"
or an "electric potential" in relation to some electric field.
I think that the original post, and the question about damage, implied
that what was of interest was the kinetic energy of the electron and
so it is not right to say "had a voltage" because that phrase refers
to its potential energy/q vice kinetic energy which actually has an
effect on the body.
I still think that being hit by an electron stream does not require
you to have a voltage across your body.
Drugs are amazing.......
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| User: "Radium" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 06:55:36 PM |
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On Jun 4, 2:32 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 3, 4:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
A voltage is not something that is supplied out of a bucket or a hose.
It is a number associated with the *difference* in potential between
two places. For example, your AC socket at home generates 120V
difference (US) between the left socket hole and the right socket
hole. A tazer generates high voltage between the terminals of the
taser.
So the reason why a taser is able to generate high-voltage with low-
current is because the terminals are small and close to each other?
If there were a potential difference of 6x10^18 V between one side of
your body and the other side of your body, all of the atoms in between
those two points would immediately dissociate, with the electrons
running very quickly toward one of those points and the protons
running toward the other point, leaving a very large hole in between
those two points. In doing so, of course, there would be substantially
more current than one electron per second, and there is not a damn
thing you could do to stop it.
Okay.
In other words, there is no way
possible to put 6x10^18 V across a block of material medium some tens
of centimeters thick and limit the current to one electron per second.
Damn!!
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| User: "Mishagam" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock-- symptoms? |
07 Jun 2007 09:18:35 AM |
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PD wrote:
On Jun 3, 4:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Thanks,
Radium
A voltage is not something that is supplied out of a bucket or a hose.
It is a number associated with the *difference* in potential between
two places. For example, your AC socket at home generates 120V
difference (US) between the left socket hole and the right socket
hole. A tazer generates high voltage between the terminals of the
taser.
If there were a potential difference of 6x10^18 V between one side of
your body and the other side of your body, all of the atoms in between
those two points would immediately dissociate, with the electrons
running very quickly toward one of those points and the protons
running toward the other point, leaving a very large hole in between
those two points. In doing so, of course, there would be substantially
more current than one electron per second, and there is not a damn
thing you could do to stop it. In other words, there is no way
possible to put 6x10^18 V across a block of material medium some tens
of centimeters thick and limit the current to one electron per second.
PD
THere is law of Ohm that says that current is proportional to potential
difference, depending on resistance. Resistance of human body is rather
low, so big potential difference will lead to big current (and death).
On the other side, you can be part of two high voltage lines delivering
high voltage current to target. Potential difference between parts of
your body will be small, but potential difference between you and other
conduit or ground will be big, and then current passing through you can
really lighten the 100W bulb or do some other (big) work.
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 05:11:31 PM |
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On Jun 3, 5:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Not sure about the energy scales, but extremely high energy electrons
would be similar to cosmic rays -- single quantum particles packing a
macroscopic punch. Then of course there is the issue of cross section
(probability of being stopped by your body).
OTOH the relation between voltage and energy is misleading: an
electron-volt is a unit of energy because it refers to an electron
which has passed through that potential difference. Ordinarily, when
we speak of volts, we are refering to a measure not directly related
to how much energy the charge carriers will deposit in a particular
part of the ciruit. Volts over what distance?
The two things which will damage you are total energy deposited per
volume (heating), and ionizing radiation -- which are particle so
energetic they will damage molecules singularly, without necessarily
creating bulk heating.
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| User: "Radium" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 05:40:46 PM |
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On Jun 3, 3:11 pm, Edward Green <spamspamsp...@netzero.com> wrote:
On Jun 3, 5:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Not sure about the energy scales, but extremely high energy electrons
would be similar to cosmic rays -- single quantum particles packing a
macroscopic punch. Then of course there is the issue of cross section
(probability of being stopped by your body).
You seem to be talking about the energetic beta rays of electrons. I
am asking about electric current.
OTOH the relation between voltage and energy is misleading: an
electron-volt is a unit of energy because it refers to an electron
which has passed through that potential difference. Ordinarily, when
we speak of volts, we are refering to a measure not directly related
to how much energy the charge carriers will deposit in a particular
part of the ciruit. Volts over what distance?
I am talking about voltage of electricity, not electron-volts. Sorry
for the confusion.
The two things which will damage you are total energy deposited per
volume (heating), and ionizing radiation -- which are particle so
energetic they will damage molecules singularly, without necessarily
creating bulk heating.
Okay, but wouldn't the wattage of the electric current I described, be
too low to result in ionizing radiation? Even at 6.2 x 10^18 volts,
the extremely-weak current of 1-electron-per-minute would result in a
power less than 1 watt.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 06:15:03 PM |
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In sci.physics.electromag Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 3, 3:11 pm, Edward Green <spamspamsp...@netzero.com> wrote:
On Jun 3, 5:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Not sure about the energy scales, but extremely high energy electrons
would be similar to cosmic rays -- single quantum particles packing a
macroscopic punch. Then of course there is the issue of cross section
(probability of being stopped by your body).
You seem to be talking about the energetic beta rays of electrons. I
am asking about electric current.
Beta rays ARE fast electrons, fool.
Accelerate an electron with 10^18 volts and it is going to move fast.
OTOH the relation between voltage and energy is misleading: an
electron-volt is a unit of energy because it refers to an electron
which has passed through that potential difference. Ordinarily, when
we speak of volts, we are refering to a measure not directly related
to how much energy the charge carriers will deposit in a particular
part of the ciruit. Volts over what distance?
I am talking about voltage of electricity, not electron-volts. Sorry
for the confusion.
You have no clue what you are talking about.
The two things which will damage you are total energy deposited per
volume (heating), and ionizing radiation -- which are particle so
energetic they will damage molecules singularly, without necessarily
creating bulk heating.
Okay, but wouldn't the wattage of the electric current I described, be
too low to result in ionizing radiation? Even at 6.2 x 10^18 volts,
the extremely-weak current of 1-electron-per-minute would result in a
power less than 1 watt.
It is energy that determines ionization potential, not power or current.
Energy isn't measured in watts.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 08:35:53 PM |
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On Jun 3, 7:15 pm, wrote:
In sci.physics.electromag Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 3, 3:11 pm, Edward Green <spamspamsp...@netzero.com> wrote:
On Jun 3, 5:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Not sure about the energy scales, but extremely high energy electrons
would be similar to cosmic rays -- single quantum particles packing a
macroscopic punch. Then of course there is the issue of cross section
(probability of being stopped by your body).
You seem to be talking about the energetic beta rays of electrons. I
am asking about electric current.
Beta rays ARE fast electrons, fool.
Ah... you have fallen off Jeff Relf's niceness scale. :-)
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 08:34:03 PM |
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On Jun 3, 6:40 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 3, 3:11 pm, Edward Green <spamspamsp...@netzero.com> wrote:
On Jun 3, 5:52 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Not sure about the energy scales, but extremely high energy electrons
would be similar to cosmic rays -- single quantum particles packing a
macroscopic punch. Then of course there is the issue of cross section
(probability of being stopped by your body).
You seem to be talking about the energetic beta rays of electrons. I
am asking about electric current.
What makes you think beta rays don't carry an electric current?
Of course merely specifying a current leaves a range of compatible
carrier densities and velocities.
OTOH the relation between voltage and energy is misleading: an
electron-volt is a unit of energy because it refers to an electron
which has passed through that potential difference. Ordinarily, when
we speak of volts, we are refering to a measure not directly related
to how much energy the charge carriers will deposit in a particular
part of the ciruit. Volts over what distance?
I am talking about voltage of electricity, not electron-volts. Sorry
for the confusion.
An electron volt is the energy acquired by an electron passing through
a potential drop of 1 volt -- a volt's a volt. I was pointing out
that in this case, at least, stating a voltage made some clear
statement about the energy of the charge carriers. In general, it
doesn't, nor does it specify how much energy is deposited in the
sample.
The two things which will damage you are total energy deposited per
volume (heating), and ionizing radiation -- which are particle so
energetic they will damage molecules singularly, without necessarily
creating bulk heating.
Okay, but wouldn't the wattage of the electric current I described, be
too low to result in ionizing radiation? Even at 6.2 x 10^18 volts,
the extremely-weak current of 1-electron-per-minute would result in a
power less than 1 watt.
Ionizing radiation refers to the energy of individual quanta (here --
electrons). Total power has nothing to do with it.
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| User: "Matthew Beasley" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 11:55:34 AM |
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"Edward Green" <spamspamspam3@netzero.com> wrote in message
news:1180920843.174397.65170@q69g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
What makes you think beta rays don't carry an electric current?
Of course merely specifying a current leaves a range of compatible
carrier densities and velocities.
Which has always made me wonder: what is the current flow from a nuclear
reactor? Is the beta energetic enough that it goes through the metal vessel
and into the concrete? If it does, then there would be a flow of current
back out of the concrete bioshield and into the fuel where the emitting atom
is located.
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| User: "Michael Moroney" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 10:30:15 PM |
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Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> writes:
On Jun 3, 3:11 pm, Edward Green <spamspamsp...@netzero.com> wrote:
Not sure about the energy scales, but extremely high energy electrons
would be similar to cosmic rays -- single quantum particles packing a
macroscopic punch. Then of course there is the issue of cross section
(probability of being stopped by your body).
You seem to be talking about the energetic beta rays of electrons. I
am asking about electric current.
You are talking about electric current in the form of (extremely)
energetic beta rays. There have been cosmic rays with energies in
that range detected.
If you had one of these super-betas fired at you, it would either pass
through you or it wouldn't. It'll be moving at c for all intents and
purposes.
If it passed through you, I don't know if it would ionize any of the atoms
along its path since it passes by so quickly. Maybe someone with
knowledge of energetic beta radiation or particle accelerators can
answer.
If it didn't, it would mean it scored a direct hit on an atom in your
body, probably the nucleus. The atom would be blasted to smithereens, and
probably produce a few of the long-sought Higgs particles, as well as just
about every kind of subatomic particle known. Each of the shower of
particles would be an extremely energetic particle in its own right, so
you can repeat this recursively for a few generations. Most will decay
quickly producing even more particles. Eventually, energetic particles
will be lower in energy and this probably means they'd lose energy to
nearby atoms and eventually be captured, like regular beta radioactivity
as well as similar effects from the hadrons and mesons flying by.
I just thought of Cerenkov radiation, that'll probably do some damage
from something of that energy just passing through.
Google "Fly's Eye" for detection of super-energetic cosmic rays.
Apparently there are some individual protons with as much energy as
a well-hit baseball out there.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock-- symptoms? |
03 Jun 2007 05:25:47 PM |
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Radium wrote:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Stand outside
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_rays
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| User: "Erdemal" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock-- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 12:07:33 PM |
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Radium wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
And what if someone kick anybody's ***** with a one picosecond poke of
one TeraJoule?
Erdy
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| User: "Erdemal" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock-- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 12:11:06 PM |
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Radium wrote:
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
I meant Watt, not Joule ... but I wrote Joule :)
And what if someone kick anybody's ***** with a one picosecond poke of
one TeraWatt?
Erdy
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| User: "AL BENSER" |
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| Title: Re: Extremely high-voltage yet extremely small-current electric shock -- symptoms? |
04 Jun 2007 01:55:13 PM |
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You are using the wrong words!!! when you say a DC sine wave,
you mean by that a dc current varying ABOVE the zero level of
current and voltage. Therefore, if that current has any variation, it just
can not BE at the level of 1-electron per minute!!!!
If, you are able to pass through your body a constant and continuous
1 electron per minute (which I don't think you can), it will not effect
you and you will not know it!!!
"Radium" <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1180907553.885341.76920@j4g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
Hi:
What would happen if a DC sine-wave electric current of 6.2 x 10^18
volts with an amperage of 1-electron-per-minute were to pass through
me? What it have any affect on me? If so, what symptoms would I
experience as a result of this electric shock? Would it be lethal? If
so, why?
Thanks,
Radium
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