| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"PDGdud" |
| Date: |
03 Aug 2005 03:04:35 AM |
| Object: |
FALSE CLAIMS FOR NEUTRINO DETECTION |
The experiments that relied on the premise that (B+)decay
produced neutrinos, and that reverse (B+) was possible, were
flawed from the start. In 1953, after WWII, the first big physics
experiment was using the Savanna River Reactor neutron flux to
"theoretically" produce a large flux of neutrinos for possible
detection. They expected (mistakenly) that the reverse beta decay
was possible. We now know that the proton cannot he the source
for the positron, but that the expelled positron (B+) is from the
(B-,B+ ) pair production. Reines and Cowan's Savanna River
experiment was plagued by cosmic ray background events that
mimicked the theoretical signature of positron creation and
annihilation. Because of the large background, from cosmic rays,
the tests were inconclusive. The signal was just about the same
with the reactor off, as with the reactor oil. It was impossible
to get rid of background events, despite running the detectors 24
hours reactor on and then 24 hours off. Out of hundreds of
background eve nts, th ey claimed to see 70 fewer with the
reactor off. Of course. we know that all detected events were
false as the experiment was flawed. Because of the false cosmic
ray positives, in early neutrino experiments. present day
experiments are all performed deep underground in an effort to
reduce the background events (notably from high energy muons).
For example, the so-called SNO (Sudbury Neutrino Observatory) is
located at a depth of 6010 meters of water (equivalent) in the
INCO, Ltd. Crei ghton mine near Sudbury , Ontario, Canada. It
features 1000 metric toils of ultrapure D20 (heavy water)
contained in a 12 meter diameter spherical vessel. This sphere is
surrounded by a shield of ultra pure H20 contained in a 34 meter
high barrel shaped cavity, a maximum diameter of 22 meters. They,
used 9446, 20-cm photomuliplier tubes (PMTs) with light
concentrators. Events were defined by a triggering of 18 PMTs
minimum. The experiment was flawed from the start. because they
reportedly, l ooked for these following impossible rea ctions,
Equation (3.4a,b,c).
ve + d --> p + p+ e^- (3.4a) wrong
ve + d ---> p + n + vx (3.4b) wrong
vx + e^- --> vx + e^- (3.4c) wrong
Equation (3.4a) is the so-called charged current (CC). Equation
(3.4b) is the so-called neutral current (NC), and finally the
Equation (3.4c) is simply the postulated electron scattering (ES)
by neutrinos. The first report on the (CC) experiment, from
November, 1999 to January, 2001, corresponding to a live time of
240.95 days was issued June, 2001. The (d) in Equations (3.4a, b)
is the deuterium nucleus in the D20 heavy water, and is made up
of a proton (p) and neutron (n). The proposal was that all
incoming neutrino (ve) somehow attacks the deuterium and converts
the neutron to a proton, releasing an electron (e- ). This
reactio n was supposed to detect a neutrino from the (B+) decay
of Boron 8 in the sun. Of course, we now know that in (B+) decay,
the neutrino energy (+0.782333 MeV) is absorbed by the proton,
along with the pair electron. There are no neutrinos from B8 to
detect. Out of 355,320.964 flashes on the PMTs, and after doing
all the theoretical data cuts, the SNO experiment claimed to have
detected 1,169 total "neutrino" events. Because SNO was a
collaboration, and the five page paper has some 179 Physicists
nam es listed as authors, the expectation was that no one would
dare question the foundation for the claims.
.
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| User: "Bjoern Feuerbacher" |
|
| Title: Re: FALSE CLAIMS FOR NEUTRINO DETECTION |
03 Aug 2005 08:24:39 AM |
|
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PDGdud wrote:
The experiments that relied on the premise that (B+)decay
produced neutrinos, and that reverse (B+) was possible, were
flawed from the start. In 1953, after WWII, the first big physics
experiment was using the Savanna River Reactor neutron flux to
"theoretically" produce a large flux of neutrinos for possible
detection. They expected (mistakenly) that the reverse beta decay
was possible.
Care to present any evidence that this expectation was a mistake?
We now know that the proton cannot he the source
for the positron, but that the expelled positron (B+) is from the
(B-,B+ ) pair production.
Err, why on earth do you think we "know" that? This is complete
*****.
Reines and Cowan's Savanna River
experiment was plagued by cosmic ray background events that
mimicked the theoretical signature of positron creation and
annihilation. Because of the large background, from cosmic rays,
the tests were inconclusive. The signal was just about the same
with the reactor off, as with the reactor oil. It was impossible
to get rid of background events, despite running the detectors 24
hours reactor on and then 24 hours off.
Reference, please.
Out of hundreds of
background events, they claimed to see 70 fewer with the
reactor off. Of course. we know that all detected events were
false as the experiment was flawed.
No, "we" do not know that. So far, it's only you who *claims* that,
Because of the false cosmic
ray positives, in early neutrino experiments. present day
experiments are all performed deep underground in an effort to
reduce the background events (notably from high energy muons).
For example, the so-called SNO (Sudbury Neutrino Observatory) is
located at a depth of 6010 meters of water (equivalent) in the
INCO, Ltd. Creighton mine near Sudbury , Ontario, Canada. It
features 1000 metric toils of ultrapure D20 (heavy water)
contained in a 12 meter diameter spherical vessel. This sphere is
surrounded by a shield of ultra pure H20 contained in a 34 meter
high barrel shaped cavity, a maximum diameter of 22 meters. They,
used 9446, 20-cm photomuliplier tubes (PMTs) with light
concentrators. Events were defined by a triggering of 18 PMTs
minimum. The experiment was flawed from the start. because they
reportedly, looked for these following impossible rea ctions,
Equation (3.4a,b,c).
And why does this make the experiment "flawed"?
ve + d --> p + p+ e^- (3.4a) wrong
ve + d ---> p + n + vx (3.4b) wrong
vx + e^- --> vx + e^- (3.4c) wrong
Three unsupported assertions which are nicely contradicted
by the experimental evidence.
Equation (3.4a) is the so-called charged current (CC). Equation
(3.4b) is the so-called neutral current (NC), and finally the
Equation (3.4c) is simply the postulated electron scattering (ES)
by neutrinos. The first report on the (CC) experiment, from
November, 1999 to January, 2001, corresponding to a live time of
240.95 days was issued June, 2001.
"live time"?
The (d) in Equations (3.4a, b)
is the deuterium nucleus in the D20 heavy water, and is made up
of a proton (p) and neutron (n). The proposal was that all
incoming neutrino (ve) somehow attacks the deuterium and converts
the neutron to a proton,
Not "somehow". How this happens is precisely described by the
very succesful theory of electroweak interactions.
releasing an electron (e- ). This
reaction was supposed to detect a neutrino from the (B+) decay
of Boron 8 in the sun. Of course, we now know that in (B+) decay,
the neutrino energy (+0.782333 MeV) is absorbed by the proton,
along with the pair electron.
No, "we" do not know that. So far, it's only you who *claims* that,
There are no neutrinos from B8 to detect.
Unsupported assertion which is nicely contradicted
by the experimental evidence.
Out of 355,320.964 flashes on the PMTs, and after doing
all the theoretical data cuts, the SNO experiment claimed to have
detected 1,169 total "neutrino" events. Because SNO was a
collaboration, and the five page paper has some 179 Physicists
names listed as authors, the expectation was that no one would
dare question the foundation for the claims.
No. The expectation was that no one would dare question the results
because the production of neutrinos in B+ decay is an established *fact*.
Wow. Is there *anything* which cranks won't try to deny?
Is this Mr. Lockyer in disguise? The arguments sure sound like his.
Bye,
Bjoern
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| User: "Michael Moroney" |
|
| Title: Re: FALSE CLAIMS FOR NEUTRINO DETECTION |
03 Aug 2005 07:56:25 PM |
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Bjoern Feuerbacher <bjoern.feuerbacher@pci.uni-heidelberg.de> writes:
<snip>
Is this Mr. Lockyer in disguise? The arguments sure sound like his.
I was going to write the same thing. Same unsupported assertations,
same arguments.
Maybe it's someone who got his book and actually believes it.
Some typos appear to be OCR errors, perhaps some troll just scanned in
part of his book.
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| User: "FrediFizzx" |
|
| Title: Re: FALSE CLAIMS FOR NEUTRINO DETECTION |
03 Aug 2005 08:23:09 PM |
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"Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote in message
news:dcrp3o$tp2$1@pcls4.std.com...
| Bjoern Feuerbacher <bjoern.feuerbacher@pci.uni-heidelberg.de> writes:
|
| <snip>
|
| >Is this Mr. Lockyer in disguise? The arguments sure sound like his.
|
| I was going to write the same thing. Same unsupported assertations,
| same arguments.
|
| Maybe it's someone who got his book and actually believes it.
| Some typos appear to be OCR errors, perhaps some troll just scanned in
| part of his book.
It's our "p6" "friend" quoting more out of Tom's book. LOL
Even though this part is wrong since what Tom thinks is a neutrino in
his model is definitely not a neutrino, I am still going email you the
stuff on nuclear binding energies soon (got heavily sidetracked by some
other potentially new physics). I suspect that Tom has stumbled upon a
derivation that can be obtained from pion exchange for the binding
energies. I still need to find and get a book that has a good
derivation for deuteron binding energy to see if Tom's claim that it has
never been done is correct.
FrediFizzx
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| User: "p6" |
|
| Title: Re: FALSE CLAIMS FOR NEUTRINO DETECTION |
03 Aug 2005 08:39:33 PM |
|
|
FrediFizzx wrote:
"Michael Moroney" <moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com> wrote in message
news:dcrp3o$tp2$1@pcls4.std.com...
| Bjoern Feuerbacher <bjoern.feuerbacher@pci.uni-heidelberg.de> writes:
|
| <snip>
|
| >Is this Mr. Lockyer in disguise? The arguments sure sound like his.
|
| I was going to write the same thing. Same unsupported assertations,
| same arguments.
|
| Maybe it's someone who got his book and actually believes it.
| Some typos appear to be OCR errors, perhaps some troll just scanned in
| part of his book.
It's our "p6" "friend" quoting more out of Tom's book. LOL
Even though this part is wrong since what Tom thinks is a neutrino in
his model is definitely not a neutrino, I am still going email you the
stuff on nuclear binding energies soon (got heavily sidetracked by some
other potentially new physics). I suspect that Tom has stumbled upon a
derivation that can be obtained from pion exchange for the binding
energies. I still need to find and get a book that has a good
derivation for deuteron binding energy to see if Tom's claim that it has
never been done is correct.
FrediFizzx
I think you and Tom got it wrong right in the foundation. In
particle decays. The products don't come inside the parts of
the original but a new creation. Even Mr. Polasek and your dual
space concept doesn't seem right because you are assuming there
is a hidden variable to them all (like positron being left in
the other dual space).
Why can't you just accept the fact that the particles are
created brand new from the quantum vacuum without any classical
convertion or process like what Tom is doing.
The weak force responsible for all the transmutations is like
alchemy. Particle physics appears just to be just the tip of the
iceberg of the elegant reality that lies beneath. Something
classical reasoning or models can't touch.
p6
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| User: "Bjoern Feuerbacher" |
|
| Title: Re: FALSE CLAIMS FOR NEUTRINO DETECTION |
04 Aug 2005 04:23:31 AM |
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Michael Moroney wrote:
Bjoern Feuerbacher <bjoern.feuerbacher@pci.uni-heidelberg.de> writes:
<snip>
Is this Mr. Lockyer in disguise? The arguments sure sound like his.
I was going to write the same thing. Same unsupported assertations,
same arguments.
Maybe it's someone who got his book and actually believes it.
Some typos appear to be OCR errors, perhaps some troll just scanned in
part of his book.
I suspect it's cinquirer/Qion/p6/....... yet again, with yet another
nickname for disguise, posting yet again something that a crank wrote
in the hope that some physicists will do the debunking for him...
Bye,
Bjoern
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