| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Cos_mo" |
| Date: |
09 Jul 2005 02:49:38 PM |
| Object: |
Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
I'd like to understand the concept of big crunch wherein
the entire universe can contract into a point no larger
than a planck space (opposite of big bang).
Is there a space event wherein space was seen to contract
into a point. In neutron star, the electron literally falls
to the nucleus merging with protons turning the pair
into neutrons. In black holes, there is still a core.
What would it take for any space object to contract to
a planck size area. Does it have to do with temperature.
If we can create that temperature on earth, can we contract
the space of a building for example into something as small
as an electron. If that happen. Are we pulling the space
from nearby buildings or can we just get a void in the
space which was gone (contracted).
Thanks.
Cos_mo
.
|
|
| User: "Uncle Al" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
09 Jul 2005 05:42:24 PM |
|
|
Cos_mo wrote:
I'd like to understand the concept of big crunch wherein
the entire universe can contract into a point no larger
than a planck space (opposite of big bang).
[snip]
Start by learning the difference between an explosion in space vs. an
explosion of space. How does a whole sequoia fit inside that tiny
little seed?
http://www.leubner.ch/images/coneseed1.jpg
Now, propose a way to get the sequoia back into the original package.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.
|
|
|
| User: "John Sefton" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
09 Jul 2005 11:47:41 PM |
|
|
Uncle Al wrote:
Cos_mo wrote:
I'd like to understand the concept of big crunch wherein
the entire universe can contract into a point no larger
than a planck space (opposite of big bang).
[snip]
Start by learning the difference between an explosion in space vs. an
explosion of space. How does a whole sequoia fit inside that tiny
little seed?
http://www.leubner.ch/images/coneseed1.jpg
Now, propose a way to get the sequoia back into the original package.
Where did the seed come from, idiot Al?
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Nick" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
09 Jul 2005 10:14:16 PM |
|
|
Cosmo if you run space-time backward all
the way it enevitably becomes pointlike.
There is no problem with expanding from
a space-time singularity.
But mass according to quantum mechanics
shout not be able to exist as point. And is
not a point.
Maybe someone can show me otherwise?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "No Name Available" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
09 Jul 2005 05:36:52 PM |
|
|
Unfortunately, the big crunch has been cancelled.
The universe is expanding, and accelerating. The word on the street is
that there is going to be a `Big Rip` instead.
The universe is going to get very dilute... so much so that it will
essentially be nothing.
And some ppl say that that will lead on to another `environment` that
is conducive to another `big bang` happening again, and create another
baby universe very similar to what ours is like....
.
|
|
|
| User: "hanson" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
09 Jul 2005 08:17:05 PM |
|
|
"No Name Available" <goarana666@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120948612.840621.256600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Unfortunately, the big crunch has been cancelled.
The universe is expanding, and accelerating. The word on the street is
that there is going to be a `Big Rip` instead.
The universe is going to get very dilute... so much so that it will
essentially be nothing.
And some ppl say that that will lead on to another `environment` that
is conducive to another `big bang` happening again, and create another
baby universe very similar to what ours is like....
[hanson]
All these things are only interesting, engaging "Hirngespinste",
cob webs in their brains, stories they tell you, claiming what
logically can or cannot be... with/by THEIR logic that is or is not.....
while in reality most of these story tellers have never been
farther away then Barstow.... which "looks" like Mars... and so
their stories and tales begin..... ahahaha.... AHAHAHA.... ahahaha...
But then, it appears to most "ppl" that their environment is
indeed "self-similar" to something other/else. Strangely, this
unsung, fundamental observation and notion of self-similarity
which is the underpinning of ALL theories (read stories), has
never really attracted their attention fully..... ahahahaha.....
ahahaha..... ahahahanson
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Cos_mo" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
10 Jul 2005 03:18:45 AM |
|
|
No Name Available wrote:
Unfortunately, the big crunch has been cancelled.
The universe is expanding, and accelerating. The word on the street is
that there is going to be a `Big Rip` instead.
The universe is going to get very dilute... so much so that it will
essentially be nothing.
And some ppl say that that will lead on to another `environment` that
is conducive to another `big bang` happening again, and create another
baby universe very similar to what ours is like....
I know the universe is expanding... something in
the vacuum.. dark energy.. is causing space
expansion to increase instead of slowing down.
What I'm inquiring is whether it is conceivable that the entire
universe with billions and billions and billions of galaxies
with an almost infinite number of stars like our sun can
fit inside a point no larger than a proton. I know it is
space itself that is expanding or contracting and
it is void outside of it.
Is this not crackpottery to the max.
What's the difference than saying a Creator initiated
the inflation from a point to what it is now.
Both are bizarreness to the max.
Cos_mo
.
|
|
|
| User: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \dlzc\ N: dlzc1 D:cox" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
10 Jul 2005 10:08:07 AM |
|
|
Dear Cos_mo:
"Cos_mo" <cosmoextremepsix@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1120983525.658752.234740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
....
I know the universe is expanding... something in
the vacuum.. dark energy.. is causing space
expansion to increase instead of slowing down.
What I'm inquiring is whether it is conceivable that the entire
universe with billions and billions and billions of galaxies
with an almost infinite number of stars like our sun can
fit inside a point no larger than a proton. I know it is
space itself that is expanding or contracting and
it is void outside of it.
It is not necessarily void outside of it. We don't know what is
"outside".
The spacetime you anguish over is simply a spreadsheet the
various bits of matter and energy work out their relationships
in. So "outside" of spacetime is a nonsequitur, since x-y-z
don't go there.
Now one can wonder if the arrival of Dark Matter and Dark Energy
are the intrusion of stuff on/from other planes (normal to
x-y-z-t).
Is this not crackpottery to the max.
Wondering about events 13+ Gy ago, or events 100 Gy in the
future, are *pastimes*. We are very far from the walls of the
pot, so there is no knowing if it is cracked. So the best you
can hope for is prediction and some sort of experimental
verification.
What's the difference than saying a Creator initiated
the inflation from a point to what it is now.
Both are bizarreness to the max.
From some perspectives, anything can look like bizareness.
Comedy is an ugly business.
David A. Smith
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "hanson" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
10 Jul 2005 09:33:43 AM |
|
|
Saturday night, well after midnight, "Cos_mo" had a cosmic experience
<cosmoextremepsix@yahoo.com> aka "p6" and shared it in his message
news:1120983525.658752.234740@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
I know the universe is expanding... something in the vacuum..
dark energy.. is causing space expansion to increase instead
of slowing down.
[hanson]
ahahaha... yeah, yeah.... that "knowing", huh,... that's the gig...
AND the gag, like the yin and the yang.... all 4 of them infested
with your prana, and moving up from your kundalini... causing
expansions in the "qi" of your chakras...... ahahahaha....
[p6]
What I'm inquiring is whether it is conceivable that the entire
universe with billions and billions and billions of galaxies with
an almost infinite number of stars like our sun can fit inside a
point no larger than a proton. I know it is space itself that is
expanding or contracting and it is void outside of it.
[hanson]
ahahaha.... that's why they still ask: "how many angels can be
dancing on the head of a pin". Whether this is void now, only you
can answer after you take another hit of your prana... ahahaha..
[p6]
Is this not crackpottery to the max.
What's the difference than saying a Creator initiated
the inflation from a point to what it is now.
Both are bizarreness to the max.
Cos_mo [aka "p6" going on 7,8,9... and higher & higher]
[hanson]
no, no, of course not, Cosmo. It is not cracked nor bizarre,
because your Max Creator did not tell you what the current
inflation *rate* was. OTOH, Alan Greenspan can tell you.
See, you gotta look in the right places, Cosmo.
AHAHAHA.... ahahahanson
PS:
Are you also a look-alike of that Seinfeld Cosmo character?
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "No Name Available" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
10 Jul 2005 10:43:24 AM |
|
|
Well it is possible that by using extra dimensions you can squeeze
everything into an almost point like Space. Though that would not be
strictly be Planck's Space time.
(Think of a sheet of paper viewed end on - the volume is always the
same though)
That would also lead onto question the meaning of different positions
in space time - that all places are the same and cause and effect do
not apply.
I sometimes try to suggest that space `imploded` into the void -
that way, stops nasty preconceptions (like there being an outside and a
planks space) from clouding the idea of a big bang...
.
|
|
|
| User: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \dlzc\ N: dlzc1 D:cox" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
10 Jul 2005 12:22:09 PM |
|
|
Dear No Name Available:
"No Name Available" <goarana666@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121010204.442700.230340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Well it is possible that by using extra dimensions you
can squeeze everything into an almost point like Space.
Though that would not be strictly be Planck's Space
time.
(Think of a sheet of paper viewed end on - the volume
is always the same though)
Don't get hung up on the details of the analogy. If you consider
the plane X-Y, what is *its* extension into Z? A coordinate
stops infinitessimally on either +/- Z, so yes, it could fit into
a planck space.
That would also lead onto question the meaning of
different positions in space time - that all places are
the same and cause and effect do not apply.
QM has this happen anyway. Any event is fully reversible, and
virtual particles arrive at destination for *any* finite speed.
No speed limit.
I sometimes try to suggest that space `imploded`
into the void - that way, stops nasty preconceptions
(like there being an outside and a planks space)
from clouding the idea of a big bang...
Eliminate the void. The Universe was a temperature, and is
cooling to a different temperature under the constraints of the
second law of thermodynamics. Spacetime, being the product of
all the mass/energy in the Unvierse, graciously complies. The
Universe, from all that we can see, is uncontained. That means
that higher dimensions are so pervasive that everything we see as
cause and effect extend into all those dimensions, moving all
those "things"; or there is no correspondence between spacetime
and any conceivable container. Imagine the constraints of an
event horizon of a black hole. Now imagine that the Big Bang is
"just inside" the event horizon...
David A. Smith
.
|
|
|
| User: "John Sefton" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
10 Jul 2005 01:32:16 PM |
|
|
N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc) wrote:
Dear No Name Available:
"No Name Available" <goarana666@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1121010204.442700.230340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Well it is possible that by using extra dimensions you
can squeeze everything into an almost point like Space.
Though that would not be strictly be Planck's Space
time.
(Think of a sheet of paper viewed end on - the volume
is always the same though)
Don't get hung up on the details of the analogy. If you consider
the plane X-Y, what is *its* extension into Z? A coordinate
stops infinitessimally on either +/- Z, so yes, it could fit into
a planck space.
That would also lead onto question the meaning of
different positions in space time - that all places are
the same and cause and effect do not apply.
QM has this happen anyway. Any event is fully reversible, and
virtual particles arrive at destination for *any* finite speed.
No speed limit.
I sometimes try to suggest that space `imploded`
into the void - that way, stops nasty preconceptions
(like there being an outside and a planks space)
from clouding the idea of a big bang...
Eliminate the void. The Universe was a temperature, and is
cooling to a different temperature under the constraints of the
second law of thermodynamics. Spacetime, being the product of
all the mass/energy in the Unvierse, graciously complies. The
Universe, from all that we can see, is uncontained. That means
that higher dimensions are so pervasive that everything we see as
cause and effect extend into all those dimensions, moving all
those "things"; or there is no correspondence between spacetime
and any conceivable container. Imagine the constraints of an
event horizon of a black hole. Now imagine that the Big Bang is
"just inside" the event horizon...
David A. Smith
Higher dimensions.
ROTFL
How about 'lower dimensions'?
ROTFL til I puke.
Don't forget the fuzzy dimensions under the fridge.
And those little hot knife escapee dimensions
under the stove. **Snuff**- yum!
No-brain scientists. No wonder all the smart kids
are taking something else.
John
.
|
|
|
| User: "G=EMC^2 Glazier" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
10 Jul 2005 02:10:50 PM |
|
|
Reality is there were two big bangs. First one created building blocks
and it fitted inside a planck length,and we call this realm the quantum
micro realm. after that using these submicroscopic building blocks
nature created the second big bang,and that created neutrons;macro
realm. I left out a lot of spacetime to make my theory short(I hate
long theories) Best to keep in mind the second big bang created
Einstien,and he gave us relativity which fits so very well with the
macro realm of the universe. It also gave you all "me" Bert
.
|
|
|
| User: "p6" |
|
| Title: Re: Fitting a Universe inside a Planck Space |
10 Jul 2005 04:59:38 PM |
|
|
Actually. Guys. It doesn't necessarily be the Big Bang where the entire
universe before inflation is just planck size. Another model called
Big Splat or ekpyrotic scenerio can also cause the flatness of
the horizon and space and results in microwave background
radiation too due to the recombination of nuclei and electrons
that released the radiation and the responding expanding of
space causing the gamma rays and other higher rays to slowly
turn to microwave.
What's more likely. Big Bang where everything starts in a
singularity or M-theory Big Splat where two higher
dimensional colliding branes produced the matter and
energy in our universe??
Take your pick.
p6
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
