| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
09 Oct 2005 02:09:33 PM |
| Object: |
Getting students interested in physics |
To get students interested in science, an easy explanation of MP3,
digital, and related technology should do the trick. The magazine
Audiophile Voice, which is run by the fomer editor of Audio Magazine,
has an article that explains these things, complete with a free
downloadable example. It is titled "Realistic MP3," and it appears in
Volume 11,Issue 1. The explanations are very easy to read. Back issues
such as that one can be obtained at
http://www.audiophilevoice.com . Schools could possibly buy reprints of
just that one article, in bulk, at deep discounts, on special request.
(Such copies were handed out in a course at Georgetown U., recently.)
An excerpt from the article can be read at this site, if you click on
this URL:
http://homepage.mac.com/shanefield/mp3/PhotoAlbum30.html
Next month, in Issue 2 of Volume 11, there will be a similar article
explaining "wi-fi" ("wireless"), along with wi-max, streaming,
Bluetooth, and related new tech.
.
|
|
| User: "Uncle Al" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
09 Oct 2005 05:07:04 PM |
|
|
wrote:
To get students interested in science, an easy explanation of MP3,
digital, and related technology should do the trick.
Why? The key to success in life is character not competence. Ask
Harriet Miers. Don't be a fungible circuit board, be the manager
firing bothersome employees. Management makes decisions, workers make
mistakes.
To be technically competent is to be life-incompetent. Only VICTIMS!
deserve compensation. Workers pay for the deserving to prosper.
Wrokers deserve nothing - they haven't earned it.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.
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|
| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
09 Oct 2005 06:17:51 PM |
|
|
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:43499488.215821F0@hate.spam.net...
| wrote:
| >
| > To get students interested in science, an easy explanation of MP3,
| > digital, and related technology should do the trick.
|
| Why? The key to success in life is character not competence. Ask
| Harriet Miers. Don't be a fungible circuit board, be the manager
| firing bothersome employees. Management makes decisions, workers make
| mistakes.
Get the Chinese to run Eotvos experiments. Ask Al Schwartz.
ROFLMAO!
Androcles.
.
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|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
09 Oct 2005 06:52:22 PM |
|
|
I wrote that "To get students interested..." thing, but I have to agree
with you two guys (Uncle Al & Androcles). You're humorous, but also
telling the whole truth.
I worked for 20 yrs at Bell Labs, but I advised both of my kids (who
did well at math &science in school) to do something else for a living.
(Both are now selling expensive real estate, and doing great.) I only
advise young people to go into tech. if they absolutely love it (which
I did, by the way). In spite of my accomplishments (big benefits to the
company, and to society), my pay was lousy, and the "managers" pushed
me around, screwing things up at every opportunity.
Later, mostly by good luck (being at the right place at the right
time), I was offered a tenured professorship, which I happily took.
Then I became my own boss and was quite happy. (I tried not to boss my
grad stu and postdocs much, and we mostly just worked together, with
good results.) But most scientists won't have the good luck that I
happened to have. It''s really a shame --- lots of wasted talent,
screwed up by the "management." And scientist can hardly afford to pay
for his or her kids' own college, nowadays (I sure struggled with
that!).
shanefi...@ieee.org
My life story in a nutshell:
http://homepage.mac.com/shanefield/shanefield3/Personal28.html
.
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| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
10 Oct 2005 07:37:47 AM |
|
|
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:1128901942.011811.194850@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
|I wrote that "To get students interested..." thing, but I have to agree
| with you two guys (Uncle Al & Androcles). You're humorous, but also
| telling the whole truth.
|
| I worked for 20 yrs at Bell Labs, but I advised both of my kids (who
| did well at math &science in school) to do something else for a
living.
| (Both are now selling expensive real estate, and doing great.) I only
| advise young people to go into tech. if they absolutely love it (which
| I did, by the way). In spite of my accomplishments (big benefits to
the
| company, and to society), my pay was lousy, and the "managers" pushed
| me around, screwing things up at every opportunity.
|
| Later, mostly by good luck (being at the right place at the right
| time), I was offered a tenured professorship, which I happily took.
| Then I became my own boss and was quite happy. (I tried not to boss my
| grad stu and postdocs much, and we mostly just worked together, with
| good results.) But most scientists won't have the good luck that I
| happened to have. It''s really a shame --- lots of wasted talent,
| screwed up by the "management." And scientist can hardly afford to pay
| for his or her kids' own college, nowadays (I sure struggled with
| that!).
|
|
| My life story in a nutshell:
| http://homepage.mac.com/shanefield/shanefield3/Personal28.html
"Honesty is praised and starves." --Juvenal
.
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|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
10 Oct 2005 08:05:47 AM |
|
|
Excellent observation by Juvenal (via "Androcles") !
You guys prob'ly don't have time for this, but if do have a spare
minute, might be amused by my funny stories of big bosses screwing me
up at Bell:
http://homepage.mac.com/shanefield/Resume19.html
especially the first 2 stories. (Third one is mostly me doing the
screwing up. plus the union workers.)
Dan-Dan The Victimized Man, tied his tail to an old beer can
.
|
|
|
| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
10 Oct 2005 09:08:29 AM |
|
|
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:1128949547.141279.41730@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Excellent observation by Juvenal (via "Androcles") !
|
| You guys prob'ly don't have time for this, but if do have a spare
| minute, might be amused by my funny stories of big bosses screwing me
| up at Bell:
|
| http://homepage.mac.com/shanefield/Resume19.html
|
| especially the first 2 stories. (Third one is mostly me doing the
| screwing up. plus the union workers.)
| Dan-Dan The Victimized Man, tied his tail to an old beer can
I'm retired, guy. I've time to read it.
Kicked off building submarines (Ocelot, Ojibwa) and refitting ships
(Manxman, Forth, Brighton and a destroyer, name not remembered)
Rewound electric motors.
Put pumps down boreholes, we all gotta drink.
Got into electronics (designed digital test gear for analogue
computers-Concorde, Boeing 747).
256 byte EPROM, the latest and greatest! Wow! Yeah, byte, not kilobyte.
Move on to flight simulators (Boeing 747 for Kuwait, later nicked by
Iraq
during the Gulf War)
Got into software engineering testing to specification (Royal Navy and
Indian Navy Sea Harriers) just in time to train RAF pilots for Falklands
debacle.
Went on the road, living out of a suitcase.
Montreal, CAE - KLM pressurised B747 simulator, (had the real aircraft
glass,
curved and of course a lens, needed for pressure, a real pain in the
arse)
Pittsburgh - UsAir DC9, B727, B737
Out to India, over to Germany (Lynx helipcopter on British army base,
back to Pittsburgh, on to Tulsa, then to Houston, NASA Ames Research,
Ca. - B737, saw a U2 taking off.
Quit and went into robotics in Pittsburgh, became QA manager, then
project leader
for industrial vision, move on to Quality Control Manager, printer
cartridges,
retired in Florida, got my leg broken, now back in England w/family
nearby.
I've been on both sides of the union fence, and sat in the middle.
Demanding pay raises is a whole lot easier than keeping a company afloat
against the competition, especially when the managers are infighting.
I've hired, fired, been hired and been fired (redundancy).
Nobody ever hired me for my pieces of vellum, and I never hired anyone
for their's either.
Now I sit back and have fun, kicking relativist's butts.:-)
[quote]
we establish by definition that the "time" required by a turtle to
travel
from A to B equals the "time" it requires to travel from B to A.
[end quote]
Ref: http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
[quote]
For velocities greater than that of a turtle our deliberations become
meaningless; we shall, however, find in what follows, that the velocity
of a turtle in our theory plays the part, physically, of an infinitely
great velocity.
[quote]
Ref: http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
Nothing can go faster than a turtle.
Oops!... Did I say 'a turtle'? Sorry...'light'.
Same phuckwit math, though.
Androcles.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
10 Oct 2005 10:21:12 AM |
|
|
Well, Androcles, you've been having an interesting life!
But I say, as far as arguments about the speed of light are concerned,
phuck 'em.
shanefi...ieee.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
10 Oct 2005 10:48:52 AM |
|
|
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote in message
news:1128957672.716816.246990@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| Well, Androcles, you've been having an interesting life!
|
| But I say, as far as arguments about the speed of light are concerned,
| phuck 'em.
| shanefi...ieee.org
You are missing all the phun, I've just witnessed a suicide.
Surely that should get students interested in physics?
<mluttgens@wanadoo.fr> wrote in message
news:1128955393.801572.77150@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| I am sorry to disagree, because a choice has to be made between time
| dilation and length contraction. *Both* can not happen!
Whoa, guy. Go easy, you'll get into trouble that way. Let him
have enough rope to decapitate himself.
The phuckwit is 40 units tall, before length contraction.
The gallows is 80 units tall. If you give him 40 units of rope
he'll not hang.
The speed of the drop is 3 units/second.
The speed of the light is 5 units/second.
It takes 16 seconds for the light to reach ground80, 80/16 = 5.
It takes 16 seconds for the phuckwit's toes to reach 80,
80 = (80-3*16)/sqrt(1 - 9/25) + 3*16
Time of drop for light from head to toe, 16 seconds.
Time of liggy climb back again toe to head, 4 seconds. 16+4 = 20
seconds.
Head is now at 60, 3*20 = 60.
Round trip time, 20, distance 2 * 32 = 64.
1/2 of 20 is 8, (dilated time, of course)
Speed of light for phuckwit 2*32/(2*8) = 4 unit/sec, too slow.
Stretch the phuckwit's neck 8 more units, now he's 40 units tall
as he was before length contraction.
Round trip time now 80/16 = 5, so speed of light is 5 as required,
and **both*** REALLY happen.
The phuckwit is really 40 units tall, gallows observers see 8 more
units, his head, vanish into thin aether to make him 32 units tall.
The time on the phuckwit's watch is really 16 seconds, the time
on the village clock which the village idiots go by is really 20
seconds.
He doesn't hang himself, he decapitates himself, but since his head
was filled with vacuum it won't matter and he will not miss it.
So give him 40 units of rope, sufficient to save his 40 unit frame,
and let Phuckwit Duck die young and headless, it's his choice.
Androcles.
.
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| User: "Mark Martin" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
10 Oct 2005 12:34:02 PM |
|
|
wrote:
To get students interested in science, an easy explanation of MP3,
digital, and related technology should do the trick. The magazine
Audiophile Voice, which is run by the fomer editor of Audio Magazine,
has an article that explains these things, complete with a free
downloadable example. It is titled "Realistic MP3," and it appears in
Volume 11,Issue 1. The explanations are very easy to read. Back issues
such as that one can be obtained at
http://www.audiophilevoice.com . Schools could possibly buy reprints of
just that one article, in bulk, at deep discounts, on special request.
(Such copies were handed out in a course at Georgetown U., recently.)
An excerpt from the article can be read at this site, if you click on
this URL:
http://homepage.mac.com/shanefield/mp3/PhotoAlbum30.html
Next month, in Issue 2 of Volume 11, there will be a similar article
explaining "wi-fi" ("wireless"), along with wi-max, streaming,
Bluetooth, and related new tech.
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
And is it really someone's job to "make" kids interested in such
things? Should schools tell children what is cool? Must mass education
be only a desperate act of cultural territoriality by an older
generation? Only the kids themselves can decide what is relevant to
their lives. Remember what Bart Simpson said: "Well this is our day
Sir, and we do talk this way."
-Mark Martin
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
10 Oct 2005 04:20:09 PM |
|
|
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application (like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mark Martin" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
10 Oct 2005 06:45:23 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application (like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
Why do you put the word "poor" in quotes? If you're interested in
encouraging kids to be interested in physics, why is your magazine, and
volume sales of its articles, the first thing you propose, rather than
anything else in particular? In other words, if you had no magazine
issues to sell, what strategy would you choose to accomplish the same
task? Would you take on such a task at all were it not to employ Usenet
as cheap advertising?
-Mark Martin
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ken S. Tucker" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
10 Oct 2005 07:00:35 PM |
|
|
Mark Martin wrote:
shanefield@ieee.org wrote:
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application (like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
Why do you put the word "poor" in quotes? If you're interested in
encouraging kids to be interested in physics, why is your magazine, and
volume sales of its articles, the first thing you propose, rather than
anything else in particular? In other words, if you had no magazine
issues to sell, what strategy would you choose to accomplish the same
task? Would you take on such a task at all were it not to employ Usenet
as cheap advertising?
-Mark Martin
Hear=hear, let mr Mr. Martin be heard!
Ken
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
10 Oct 2005 08:16:00 PM |
|
|
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application (like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
Why physics? If they got engineering degrees they might find a job.
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos052.htm
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
http://www.careerbuilder.com
physicist - 74 hits
engineer - 55,632 hits
--
"He who only sees business in business is a fool."
.
|
|
|
| User: "Henry Lemington-Wholeflavors" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
11 Oct 2005 07:07:54 PM |
|
|
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application (like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
Why physics? If they got engineering degrees they might find a job.
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos052.htm
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
http://www.careerbuilder.com
physicist - 74 hits
engineer - 55,632 hits
Yeah. Students should be actively discouraged from doing physics in
college, not the other way around. There's way too many physics BSc's,
and too many physics PhDs being produced, for the tiny amount of decent
physics jobs out there. They'd all be far better off doing engineering
or computer science.
--
http://cherenkov-radiation.blogspot.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "PD" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
13 Oct 2005 02:00:26 PM |
|
|
Henry Lemington-Wholeflavors wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application (like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
Why physics? If they got engineering degrees they might find a job.
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos052.htm
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
http://www.careerbuilder.com
physicist - 74 hits
engineer - 55,632 hits
Yeah. Students should be actively discouraged from doing physics in
college, not the other way around. There's way too many physics BSc's,
and too many physics PhDs being produced, for the tiny amount of decent
physics jobs out there. They'd all be far better off doing engineering
or computer science.
There are lots of students who take physics because of the romance of
it. I'm convinced that a *terminal* course for liberal arts majors or
allied science students that taught the conceptual foundations of
quantum mechanics, relativity and cosmology would be wildly successful.
It is also eminently doable, and I once co-designed a course that
taught special relativity (from Taylor and Wheeler) and elementary
particle physics (from notes) as a *first* course in physics for
incoming freshman. It takes a little thought, but its very doable.
This would slake the thirst of the romantics, ease the pressure for
enrollment recruitment if its a 600+/yr class, and it might even
encourage the right mind to get into the right degree path.
PD
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
14 Oct 2005 05:46:31 AM |
|
|
In article <1129230026.875677.33150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry Lemington-Wholeflavors wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that
you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application (like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
Why physics? If they got engineering degrees they might find a job.
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos052.htm
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
http://www.careerbuilder.com
physicist - 74 hits
engineer - 55,632 hits
Yeah. Students should be actively discouraged from doing physics in
college, not the other way around. There's way too many physics BSc's,
and too many physics PhDs being produced, for the tiny amount of decent
physics jobs out there. They'd all be far better off doing engineering
or computer science.
There are lots of students who take physics because of the romance of
it. I'm convinced that a *terminal* course for liberal arts majors or
allied science students that taught the conceptual foundations of
quantum mechanics, relativity and cosmology would be wildly successful.
It is also eminently doable, and I once co-designed a course that
taught special relativity (from Taylor and Wheeler) and elementary
particle physics (from notes) as a *first* course in physics for
incoming freshman. It takes a little thought, but its very doable.
This would slake the thirst of the romantics, ease the pressure for
enrollment recruitment if its a 600+/yr class, and it might even
encourage the right mind to get into the right degree path.
Can you publish it?
/BAH
.
|
|
|
| User: "PD" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
14 Oct 2005 07:29:37 AM |
|
|
wrote:
In article <1129230026.875677.33150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry Lemington-Wholeflavors wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that
you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application (like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
Why physics? If they got engineering degrees they might find a job.
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos052.htm
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
http://www.careerbuilder.com
physicist - 74 hits
engineer - 55,632 hits
Yeah. Students should be actively discouraged from doing physics in
college, not the other way around. There's way too many physics BSc's,
and too many physics PhDs being produced, for the tiny amount of decent
physics jobs out there. They'd all be far better off doing engineering
or computer science.
There are lots of students who take physics because of the romance of
it. I'm convinced that a *terminal* course for liberal arts majors or
allied science students that taught the conceptual foundations of
quantum mechanics, relativity and cosmology would be wildly successful.
It is also eminently doable, and I once co-designed a course that
taught special relativity (from Taylor and Wheeler) and elementary
particle physics (from notes) as a *first* course in physics for
incoming freshman. It takes a little thought, but its very doable.
This would slake the thirst of the romantics, ease the pressure for
enrollment recruitment if its a 600+/yr class, and it might even
encourage the right mind to get into the right degree path.
Can you publish it?
/BAH
I think it would be likely. I also have a pretty good idea what it
takes to publish a book, and I have a day job.
PD
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
14 Oct 2005 08:09:07 AM |
|
|
In article <1129292977.403505.205290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <1129230026.875677.33150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry Lemington-Wholeflavors wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
<snip>
It is also eminently doable, and I once co-designed a course that
taught special relativity (from Taylor and Wheeler) and elementary
particle physics (from notes) as a *first* course in physics for
incoming freshman. It takes a little thought, but its very doable.
This would slake the thirst of the romantics, ease the pressure for
enrollment recruitment if its a 600+/yr class, and it might even
encourage the right mind to get into the right degree path.
Can you publish it?
/BAH
I think it would be likely. I also have a pretty good idea what it
takes to publish a book, and I have a day job.
I forgot to ask in the post I just fired off: Did you ever
field test your design? If so, how many times did you use it?
What was the nature of the most problems with the design?
/BAH
.
|
|
|
| User: "PD" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
14 Oct 2005 10:12:54 AM |
|
|
wrote:
In article <1129292977.403505.205290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
wrote:
In article <1129230026.875677.33150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry Lemington-Wholeflavors wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
<snip>
It is also eminently doable, and I once co-designed a course that
taught special relativity (from Taylor and Wheeler) and elementary
particle physics (from notes) as a *first* course in physics for
incoming freshman. It takes a little thought, but its very doable.
This would slake the thirst of the romantics, ease the pressure for
enrollment recruitment if its a 600+/yr class, and it might even
encourage the right mind to get into the right degree path.
Can you publish it?
/BAH
I think it would be likely. I also have a pretty good idea what it
takes to publish a book, and I have a day job.
I forgot to ask in the post I just fired off: Did you ever
field test your design? If so, how many times did you use it?
What was the nature of the most problems with the design?
Wouldn't have designed the course if we didn't have students in it.
First semester we taught it we had 21 students. Sixth semester we
taught it we had about six times that. Then someone else took over.
PD
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
15 Oct 2005 07:59:43 AM |
|
|
In article <1129302774.896307.320250@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <1129292977.403505.205290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <1129230026.875677.33150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry Lemington-Wholeflavors wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
<snip>
It is also eminently doable, and I once co-designed a course that
taught special relativity (from Taylor and Wheeler) and elementary
particle physics (from notes) as a *first* course in physics for
incoming freshman. It takes a little thought, but its very doable.
This would slake the thirst of the romantics, ease the pressure for
enrollment recruitment if its a 600+/yr class, and it might even
encourage the right mind to get into the right degree path.
Can you publish it?
/BAH
I think it would be likely. I also have a pretty good idea what it
takes to publish a book, and I have a day job.
I forgot to ask in the post I just fired off: Did you ever
field test your design? If so, how many times did you use it?
What was the nature of the most problems with the design?
Wouldn't have designed the course if we didn't have students in it.
I had assumed that :-).
First semester we taught it we had 21 students. Sixth semester
Ah! So it had demonstrated success. That's what I wanted to
know.
.. we
taught it we had about six times that. Then someone else took over.
Now that is the real test of a design. If somebody, who does
not have your thinking and working patterns, can pick it up
and use it, it's time to ship it. :-)
/BAH
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
14 Oct 2005 08:06:46 AM |
|
|
In article <1129292977.403505.205290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <1129230026.875677.33150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry Lemington-Wholeflavors wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that
you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's
not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at
information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of
physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application (like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
Why physics? If they got engineering degrees they might find a job.
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos052.htm
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
http://www.careerbuilder.com
physicist - 74 hits
engineer - 55,632 hits
Yeah. Students should be actively discouraged from doing physics in
college, not the other way around. There's way too many physics BSc's,
and too many physics PhDs being produced, for the tiny amount of decent
physics jobs out there. They'd all be far better off doing engineering
or computer science.
There are lots of students who take physics because of the romance of
it. I'm convinced that a *terminal* course for liberal arts majors or
allied science students that taught the conceptual foundations of
quantum mechanics, relativity and cosmology would be wildly successful.
It is also eminently doable, and I once co-designed a course that
taught special relativity (from Taylor and Wheeler) and elementary
particle physics (from notes) as a *first* course in physics for
incoming freshman. It takes a little thought, but its very doable.
This would slake the thirst of the romantics, ease the pressure for
enrollment recruitment if its a 600+/yr class, and it might even
encourage the right mind to get into the right degree path.
Can you publish it?
/BAH
I think it would be likely. I also have a pretty good idea what it
takes to publish a book, and I have a day job.
Oh, you also want to make money. ;-).
The only way I know how to get something done that you never
have time to do, is to make a 5-minute/day habit of it.
/BAH
.
|
|
|
| User: "PD" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
14 Oct 2005 10:20:10 AM |
|
|
wrote:
In article <1129292977.403505.205290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
wrote:
In article <1129230026.875677.33150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry Lemington-Wholeflavors wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people that
you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity? There's
not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at
information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of
physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application (like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
Why physics? If they got engineering degrees they might find a job.
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos052.htm
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
http://www.careerbuilder.com
physicist - 74 hits
engineer - 55,632 hits
Yeah. Students should be actively discouraged from doing physics in
college, not the other way around. There's way too many physics BSc's,
and too many physics PhDs being produced, for the tiny amount of decent
physics jobs out there. They'd all be far better off doing engineering
or computer science.
There are lots of students who take physics because of the romance of
it. I'm convinced that a *terminal* course for liberal arts majors or
allied science students that taught the conceptual foundations of
quantum mechanics, relativity and cosmology would be wildly successful.
It is also eminently doable, and I once co-designed a course that
taught special relativity (from Taylor and Wheeler) and elementary
particle physics (from notes) as a *first* course in physics for
incoming freshman. It takes a little thought, but its very doable.
This would slake the thirst of the romantics, ease the pressure for
enrollment recruitment if its a 600+/yr class, and it might even
encourage the right mind to get into the right degree path.
Can you publish it?
/BAH
I think it would be likely. I also have a pretty good idea what it
takes to publish a book, and I have a day job.
Oh, you also want to make money. ;-).
The only way I know how to get something done that you never
have time to do, is to make a 5-minute/day habit of it.
At that rate, it would get finished in the year 2145, and a publisher
may not be too excited by that schedule. It's been my experience that
authors who spend four to six years writing a textbook will spend
between 10 and 20 hours/week doing that, and that is usually based on
rough, handwritten class notes that took between 400 and 800 hours to
develop prior to that point. Authors with a successful textbook will
find that their authorship means a fundamental shift in their career
from whatever they were doing before to nearly full-time writing (and
usually teaching).
PD
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
15 Oct 2005 07:57:26 AM |
|
|
In article <1129303210.431453.228250@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <1129292977.403505.205290@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <1129230026.875677.33150@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"PD" <TheDraperFamily@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry Lemington-Wholeflavors wrote:
Gregory L. Hansen wrote:
In article <1128979209.773467.265010@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<shanefield@ieee.org> wrote:
Mark Martin wrote:
Are magazine sales so poor that you need to convince people
that
you
hold the key to strengthening levels of innate curiosity?
There's
not
even any physics in the stuff you linked. A bare hint at
information
theory perhaps, but no physics.
Magazine sales are not "poor" right now. And there's plenty of
physics
in the field of audio reproduction. Plenty of math in perceptual
coding. And biophys. in the cochlea and ear-brain system involved
in
tone perception. Once a kid gets interested in one application
(like
this one), might get further interested in finding out how it
works.
Certainly nothing wrong with trying this.
Why physics? If they got engineering degrees they might find a
job.
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos052.htm
http://bls.gov/oco/ocos027.htm
http://www.careerbuilder.com
physicist - 74 hits
engineer - 55,632 hits
Yeah. Students should be actively discouraged from doing physics in
college, not the other way around. There's way too many physics
BSc's,
and too many physics PhDs being produced, for the tiny amount of
decent
physics jobs out there. They'd all be far better off doing
engineering
or computer science.
There are lots of students who take physics because of the romance of
it. I'm convinced that a *terminal* course for liberal arts majors or
allied science students that taught the conceptual foundations of
quantum mechanics, relativity and cosmology would be wildly successful.
It is also eminently doable, and I once co-designed a course that
taught special relativity (from Taylor and Wheeler) and elementary
particle physics (from notes) as a *first* course in physics for
incoming freshman. It takes a little thought, but its very doable.
This would slake the thirst of the romantics, ease the pressure for
enrollment recruitment if its a 600+/yr class, and it might even
encourage the right mind to get into the right degree path.
Can you publish it?
/BAH
I think it would be likely. I also have a pretty good idea what it
takes to publish a book, and I have a day job.
Oh, you also want to make money. ;-).
The only way I know how to get something done that you never
have time to do, is to make a 5-minute/day habit of it.
At that rate, it would get finished in the year 2145,
My mother taught me that if you don't start right now,
it will take until 2146 :-)).
.. and a publisher
may not be too excited by that schedule. It's been my experience that
authors who spend four to six years writing a textbook will spend
between 10 and 20 hours/week doing that, and that is usually based on
rough, handwritten class notes that took between 400 and 800 hours to
develop prior to that point. Authors with a successful textbook will
find that their authorship means a fundamental shift in their career
from whatever they were doing before to nearly full-time writing (and
usually teaching).
You have all these problems only if one of the goals is make
some money out of each copy. Read a little bit about Ipods
and extrapolate. The publishing biz is going to have a
diaphram shift in a few years. Take a look at Stephen King's
experiments in alternate publishing.
It is possible that you can make the cake and eat it, too.
/BAH
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ken Muldrew" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
17 Oct 2005 01:27:55 PM |
|
|
wrote:
Read a little bit about Ipods
and extrapolate.
I know people are willing to look at crummy low-res pictures on an
ipod, and they're willing to watch video on an ipod (well...it's
low-res to begin with, so maybe that's not so bad), but I cannot
imagine that anyone will ever read a book on an ipod (except, perhaps,
to prove that it can be done). Just how far are you willing to
extrapolate?
The publishing biz is going to have a
diaphram shift in a few years.
They're going to be left breathless?
Take a look at Stephen King's
experiments in alternate publishing.
I'll take a look, but if it means reading a novel on a 2" screen then
it will only be a quick look.
Ken Muldrew
kmuldrezw@ucalgazry.ca
(remove all letters after y in the alphabet)
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
18 Oct 2005 04:49:19 AM |
|
|
In article <4353ec65.509297911@news.ucalgary.ca>,
(Ken Muldrew) wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
Read a little bit about Ipods
and extrapolate.
I know people are willing to look at crummy low-res pictures on an
ipod, and they're willing to watch video on an ipod (well...it's
low-res to begin with, so maybe that's not so bad), but I cannot
imagine that anyone will ever read a book on an ipod (except, perhaps,
to prove that it can be done). Just how far are you willing to
extrapolate?
I was thinking about the distribution methods, not the quality
of the picture. Picture quality would follow as a natural
evolution of the medium.
The publishing biz is going to have a
diaphram shift in a few years.
They're going to be left breathless?
If they don't start improving their processes, out of business.
Take a look at Stephen King's
experiments in alternate publishing.
I'll take a look, but if it means reading a novel on a 2" screen then
it will only be a quick look.
Not the reading of the fiction but the experiments in distribution.
If I were younger and had energy and time, I'd start looking at
publish by demand processes. There is no reason that a customer
couldn't order any book with specifications of construction of
the book, font, and size of characters (I can't think of the word
I want right now) among other things. And then have it delivered
within a couple of weeks, if not days. Most of this can be
automated; I haven't been able to think of any piece of this
process that cannot be automated. I personally would spend
double the usual price of a text book if I could get one
that didn't fall apart after one use.
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. The publishing biz
is still stuck in lots of inventory and guessing about demand.
/BAH
.
|
|
|
| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
18 Oct 2005 09:16:56 AM |
|
|
<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dj2gev$8qk_001@s887.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
[snip crap]
A prima facia relation appears the application of the applied form to
the particular. A level of clarity of form is called prima facia.
note: All the inferences listed are the exact relation of the
objective subject to the abstract particular's parameter,
self-defining.
ROFLMAO!
Androcles.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
19 Oct 2005 06:05:37 AM |
|
|
In article <st75f.85$MF6.48@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
"Androcles" <Androcles@ MyPlace.org> wrote:
<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dj2gev$8qk_001@s887.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
[snip crap]
A prima facia relation appears the application of the applied form to
the particular. A level of clarity of form is called prima facia.
note: All the inferences listed are the exact relation of the
objective subject to the abstract particular's parameter,
self-defining.
What did you do to write this? Input Roget's Thesaurus and pick
words at random? Or no, not Roget's, but an abnormal psych text.
/BAH
.
|
|
|
| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
19 Oct 2005 10:53:21 AM |
|
|
<jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dj59a1$8ss_003@s1177.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
| In article <st75f.85$MF6.48@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
| "Androcles" <Androcles@ MyPlace.org> wrote:
| >
| ><jmfbahciv@aol.com> wrote in message
| >news:dj2gev$8qk_001@s887.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com...
| >
| >[snip crap]
| >A prima facia relation appears the application of the applied form to
| >the particular. A level of clarity of form is called prima facia.
| >note: All the inferences listed are the exact relation of the
| >objective subject to the abstract particular's parameter,
| >self-defining.
|
| What did you do to write this? Input Roget's Thesaurus and pick
| words at random? Or no, not Roget's, but an abnormal psych text.
|
| /BAH
I copied Uncle Al's phuckwittery, I know how much you miss his
ranting and rambling and I felt sorry for you.
Why, don't you like it?
Androcles.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Randy Poe" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
18 Oct 2005 09:38:55 AM |
|
|
wrote:
In article <4353ec65.509297911@news.ucalgary.ca>,
kmuldrezw@ucalgazry.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
wrote:
Read a little bit about Ipods
and extrapolate.
I know people are willing to look at crummy low-res pictures on an
ipod, and they're willing to watch video on an ipod (well...it's
low-res to begin with, so maybe that's not so bad), but I cannot
imagine that anyone will ever read a book on an ipod (except, perhaps,
to prove that it can be done). Just how far are you willing to
extrapolate?
I was thinking about the distribution methods, not the quality
of the picture. Picture quality would follow as a natural
evolution of the medium.
E-books have already been around for a number of years.
But I don't see them taking off.
Take a look at Stephen King's
experiments in alternate publishing.
I'll take a look, but if it means reading a novel on a 2" screen then
it will only be a quick look.
Not the reading of the fiction but the experiments in distribution.
I like King and I applaud his willingness to experiment. I
wasn't 100% pleased with the results.
With "The Green Mile", he wanted to do a serialized novel
a la Charles Dickens. At $2.95 a pop, I was not going to buy
it piece by piece. I waited till all six came out in the
library and read it as one continuous novel.
If it was half that price or less, I might have been willing
to try.
He also wrote two chapters of what was going to be a web-
distributed novel, at $1 per, paid on the honor system.
That was below my price barrier. I paid for the first two.
But too many readers didn't (I think he set a 75% threshold)
and he did what he threatened to do, stop writing it. And
I was just getting involved!
If I were younger and had energy and time, I'd start looking at
publish by demand processes. There is no reason that a customer
couldn't order any book with specifications of construction of
the book, font, and size of characters (I can't think of the word
I want right now) among other things. And then have it delivered
within a couple of weeks, if not days. Most of this can be
automated; I haven't been able to think of any piece of this
process that cannot be automated. I personally would spend
double the usual price of a text book if I could get one
that didn't fall apart after one use.
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. The publishing biz
is still stuck in lots of inventory and guessing about demand.
I don't understand why CDs and DVDs are not already distributed
by this process. What keeps you from keeping your stock on a
bunch of terabyte servers in the back room, letting customers
sample any track they want, and printing out disks one at
a time as required? It's already a digital medium for pete's
sake. So distribute it digitally.
- Randy
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Getting students interested in physics |
19 Oct 2005 06:27:37 AM |
|
|
In article <1129646335.426851.79150@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Randy Poe" <poespam-trap@yahoo.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <4353ec65.509297911@news.ucalgary.ca>,
kmuldrezw@ucalgazry.ca (Ken Muldrew) wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
Read a little bit about Ipods
and extrapolate.
I know people are willing to look at crummy low-res pictures on an
ipod, and they're willing to watch video on an ipod (well...it's
low-res to begin with, so maybe that's not so bad), but I cannot
imagine that anyone will ever read a book on an ipod (except, perhaps,
to prove that it can be done). Just how far are you willing to
extrapolate?
I was thinking about the distribution methods, not the quality
of the picture. Picture quality would follow as a natural
evolution of the medium.
E-books have already been around for a number of years.
But I don't see them taking off.
I think that's because the processes from writing to publishing
to receiving to reading haven't evolved enough. This kind of
stuff takes time.
Take a look at Stephen King's
experiments in alternate publishing.
I'll take a look, but if it means reading a novel on a 2" screen then
it will only be a quick look.
Not the reading of the fiction but the experiments in distribution.
I like King and I applaud his willingness to experiment.
Yes, I was interested in those experiments even though I abhor his
work.
I wasn't 100% pleased with the results.
With "The Green Mile", he wanted to do a serialized novel
a la Charles Dickens. At $2.95 a pop, I was not going to buy
it piece by piece. I waited till all six came out in the
library and read it as one continuous novel.
Yes, people read faster these days (I think). They have
artificial (and better) light and have to read fast for
day to day work.
If it was half that price or less, I might have been willing
to try.
He also wrote two chapters of what was going to be a web-
distributed novel, at $1 per, paid on the honor system.
That was below my price barrier. I paid for the first two.
But too many readers didn't (I think he set a 75% threshold)
and he did what he threatened to do, stop writing it. And
I was just getting involved!
Voluntary donations will never work.
If I were younger and had energy and time, I'd start looking at
publish by demand processes. There is no reason that a customer
couldn't order any book with specifications of construction of
the book, font, and size of characters (I can't think of the word
I want right now) among other things. And then have it delivered
within a couple of weeks, if not days. Most of this can be
automated; I haven't been able to think of any piece of this
process that cannot be automated. I personally would spend
double the usual price of a text book if I could get one
that didn't fall apart after one use.
That's the kind of thing I'm talking about. The publishing biz
is still stuck in lots of inventory and guessing about demand.
I don't understand why CDs and DVDs are not already distributed
by this process.
It appears to be growing slowly. Check out books store and the
acreage reserved for books on tape now. IIRC, Barnes & Noble's
foot print is a section now. It wasn't a year or two ago.
..What keeps you from keeping your stock on a
bunch of terabyte servers in the back room, letting customers
sample any track they want, and printing out disks one at
a time as required?
Sigh! Unfortunately, I think it's script bunnies. I picked
up a publishing text book at the dump. It was awful. The
author was more interested in presenting a printed page
that resembled modern art styles than readability.
Another problem is all publishing biz's inability to figure out
how to keep their copyrights pure. Again, watch that Ipod
stuff for scents of how things will work.
. It's already a digital medium for pete's
sake. So distribute it digitally.
I don't know how they store it digitally. It may very well
be that their processes, from one end of the typesetting to
the other end, use incompatible file formats. With the advent
Mcshit, old files will not be readable on purpose.
I think most typesetting software is proprietary so your local
software has to know about stuff that isn't available.
Furthermore, there is the problem of the software and data
not "matching" the software and data of the person downloading
the book, even if there was an enforced global standard.
No one in the computing biz seems to know how to design
things that include backwards compatibility.
The publishing biz has about a decade of calendar time's worth
of work to do to figure this all out. The fact that only
a couple hundreds of new books get published each year may
make that "retooling" the processes take longer. Note
these estimates are pulled out of my *****; I'm usually short
on all my time estimates by 10 years.
/BAH
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