Science > Physics > Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Brad Guth" |
| Date: |
01 Aug 2005 09:32:49 AM |
| Object: |
Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
Good news; 10th planet (not even including the fairly massive
protoplanet or possibly protomoon Sedna of 1800 km at 2+ g/cm3 that
should go into terraforming Venus) that's supposedly a bit more massive
and perhaps nearly as dense as Pluto means many things to different
folks.
First of all, it's super terrific to know about such items of any
potential 3400 km size, as perhaps made of a whole lot more than just
H2O/ice and CO2/ice. Thus even the initial estimate of 1.6+ g/cm3
(considering the overall potential volume of a 3400 km sphere) still
seems rather impressive for something so large and actually at times 36
AU as not all that much further away than Pluto.
Bad news; What this actually represents is that of such icy items much
smaller than Sedna are clearly not being so easily identified, thus
untracked and/or untrackable at the current levels of applied
technology and, who the hell knows what's actually out there as to run
into. Obviously if a Kuiper belt or whatever Oort cloud worth of some
item much bigger than a breadbox manages to get with some terminal
velocity, as then as such it becomes somewhat comet like. Even though
the comet core can be relatively small it can be more easily identified
and thus tracked and subsequently avoided and/or plotted as to exactly
when that little sucker is going to pass nearby, or God forbid impact
mother Earth.
However, not everything Kuiper/Oort is going to be that of such a slow
moving icy snowball of such a low density object, whereas the likes of
a few 8+ g/cm3 class of somewhat metallic infused objects as merely
cloaked in a layer of ice might actually be the more common though
smaller of items which we obviously haven't a freaking clue about any
of those suckers as having our name (Earth) engraved into their
potentially lethal high density surface. I'll have to guess the good
news about the billions if not greater numbers of such potentially
Earth-killer items available, is that because we're continually at war
over the remainders of fossil energy resources and otherwise as a
direct result of our own resident warlord policy that sucks, chances
are fairly good that much like those invisible/stealth WMD, there's
probably absolutely nothing that we could do about moderating our
impending collateral damage and carnage should one of those nearly
coal-black items have taken a slow but deliberate trek worth of a sneak
attack or sucker-punch notion upon merging with our planet, or even as
per impacting our extremely nearby moon isn't exactly playing it safe,
especially should a few thousand or possibly a mega tonne worth of
lunar basalt get displaced and thus most likely headed for pulverising
Earth could actually be nearly as bad off as for being the primary
incoming intended target.
The arrival of a mere m3 at 8 g/cm3 is going to leave a fairly
impressive impact crater. At a mere 1000 m3 and 8 g/cm3 (8,000 tonnes)
it's going to hurt real bad. Given a cubic kilometer item of 8 g/cm3
which obviously becomes worth 8 gigatonnes could still remain as below
our best radar and most other forms of such WMD detection, that is
until it's a wee bit too late and, for that size and likely final
velocity of such a nasty Kuiper/Oort item we can kiss the likes of
Texas goodbye and plan upon losing sight of our sun for another year or
so. Thus it seems we need to have established those energy efficient
robotic deployed SAR apertures, of an efficient and highly effective
imaging detection method as deployed upon our moon, along with a
terrestrial VLA as having their receiving apertures placed 384,000 km
away should give us the sort of imaging resolution advantage worth
having. That is if we ever expect to long-range detect upon the 1 m3
sorts of nasty items that'll either have to be carefully avoided in the
near future and/or perhaps diverted into our sun if not intentionally
impacted into our moon for safe keeping, thus somewhat artificially
creating a bit more lunar atmosphere at the same time.
What's still keeping us from robotically deploying such small and
energy efficient radar image receiving apertures upon our moon?
a. we don't seem to actually have a viable fly-by-rocket lander
b. our government is still covering their perpetrated cold-war butt
c. we're too well snookered and thus easily dumbfounded to actually
care about the truth
d. folks would much rather spend hundreds of billions if not a trillion
for getting humans onto Mars
d. all of the above
~
Don't look: in spite of the orchestrated status quo, it seems there's
been other life upon Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as situated within the
ME-L1/EM-L2 sweet-spot
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, Earthly ETs plus a few other somewhat testy topics by; Brad
Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
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| User: "Henk Boonsma" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
01 Aug 2005 11:05:37 AM |
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"Brad Guth" <ieisbradguth@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1122906769.704082.202290@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Good news; 10th planet (not even including the fairly massive
protoplanet or possibly protomoon Sedna of 1800 km at 2+ g/cm3 that
should go into terraforming Venus) that's supposedly a bit more massive
and perhaps nearly as dense as Pluto means many things to different
folks.
Some people have noted that there may be Pluto sized Kuiper belt objects all
the way up to half the distance to the nearest star-system (Alpha Centauri).
Are we going to classify all these as planets if we classify this Kuiper
belt object as a planet? Let's face it, Pluto was a mistake to be classified
as planet and let's keep it at that!
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| User: "Brad Guth" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
01 Aug 2005 04:01:01 PM |
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Henk Boonsma,
I somewhat agree that 9 is perhaps a few more than our fair share of
supposed planets. Whereas the likes of Pluto as a Kuiper and now a few
larger and smaller Oort zone worth of such icy items should be at most
considered as protomoons, that someday we might have the applied
technology as to directing such into orbiting the likes of Venus.
How extensive is the Oort cloud and items within that's associated with
the Sirius star system?
~
Don't look now: in spite of the orchestrated status quo, it seems
there's been other life upon Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as situated within the
ME-L1/EM-L2 sweet-spot
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Venus ETs, Earthly ETs plus a few other somewhat testy topics by; Brad
Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
.
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
01 Aug 2005 07:28:09 PM |
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On 1 Aug 2005 14:01:01 -0700, "Brad Guth" <ieisbradguth@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Henk Boonsma,
I somewhat agree that 9 is perhaps a few more than our fair share of
supposed planets.
Why is that? I am sure that New Horizon's taking a few photos of Pluto
will soon highlight how much of a planet looking item it really is.
Whereas the likes of Pluto as a Kuiper and now a few
larger and smaller Oort zone worth of such icy items should be at most
considered as protomoons,
Ah, I see what the problem is.
For a long time you have been told that beyond Pluto, out in the Oort
Cloud, is only the remains the building blocks of the planets that we
have here.
The flaw in that concept is that since the solar system started, then
time has moved on. So planets have been built out there as well.
Also it would be wrong to class all these as "icy" worlds, where so
far they have only detected the smaller size. And well small bodies
tend to come in icy form.
Sure they don't have heat from the Sun to keep them warm out there,
but you certainly could get internal heating. So when their finds
extend into larger items, then you could have a great diversity of the
planet types.
Sedna sure is not icy. Ice does not come in red. :-]
that someday we might have the applied
technology as to directing such into orbiting the likes of Venus.
There we go again. Thinking that just because these items are out in
the cold dark regions that they are less worthy. And thus by bringing
them into the "light" they then become holy and worthy of our respect.
I am sorry to say that the solar system did not end at either Neptune
or Pluto. There are another 1000 estimated planets out there waiting
to be found, where only our lack in technology to detect them at such
a great distance holds us back.
So now you have Xena, bigger than Pluto. You could try declassing
Pluto, but soon enough you will have ones as big as Mercury. Would
such a KBO not be a planet due to it simply being "cold"?
People standing on a beach would not know that there is life in the
Ocean as well. Just as there are fish in the Sea, then there are
planets in the Kuiper Belt and Oort Cloud.
How extensive is the Oort cloud and items within that's associated with
the Sirius star system?
Sorry, no idea.
One thing I do know is that in the future a local star will pass right
through our Oort Cloud. That will send thousands of comets, and much
larger, into the inner solar system.
It is interesting to note that previous stars passing through our Oort
Cloud can be linked to mass extinction events on Earth. One or two
passing asteroids can soon turn into a rain of ten thousand comets.
That I would say is how human life could well end.
Cardman.
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
03 Aug 2005 05:20:15 AM |
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Cardman wrote:
Sedna sure is not icy. Ice does not come in red. :-]
An allotrope of solid O does.
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
03 Aug 2005 08:43:06 PM |
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On 3 Aug 2005 03:20:15 -0700, "Autymn D. C." <lysdexia@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
Cardman wrote:
Sedna sure is not icy. Ice does not come in red. :-]
An allotrope of solid O does.
There always has to be one... :-]
Well, they have had a good look at Sedna, where there is no noticeable
volume of ice to be seen.
The top theory on why Sedna, is almost as red as Mars, is that it is
covered in a hydrocarbon sludge, or tholin. This is best reflected in
the centaur nicknamed "big red" or 5145 Pholus.
The theory on why Sedna is more red than Pholus is because, being
further out, it is subject to less impacts that would have exposed a
more whiter layer underneath.
It just seems to me that Sedna used to be in an orbit that is a touch
more warmer than it currently is in. Considering the reported "missing
moon" problem, where one theory is that it's moon could have been
destroyed, then it could well be that Sedna has quite an interesting
story to tell.
Cardman.
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
04 Aug 2005 08:43:18 AM |
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Stop misspelling its!
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
04 Aug 2005 10:34:16 AM |
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On 4 Aug 2005 06:43:18 -0700, "Autymn D. C." <lysdexia@sbcglobal.net>
wrote:
Stop misspelling its!
Is there nothing better that you can do than to correct the spelling
faults from multiple posters?
In fact, considering the international aspect of the Usenet, where
many people do not have English as their first language, then it is in
fact quite bizarre to assume that everyone has perfect written English
language skills.
Should you have ever made a spelling mistake, which is something that
seem impossible to avoid, then you have no right to point out other
peoples language failings, when doing so would be very hypocritical of
you.
I would even start to suspect that you may have a superiority complex,
but that remains to be seen.
Since language is not a constant, where neither do you own it, then it
is really my choice on how I wish to use it. The written language is
about passing on understanding through text, where my postings
certainly achieve that goal.
I have no idea just what your irritation is with such minor faults in
all these postings, but I can assure you that pointing out these
things is very much against general Usenet netiquette. So in your
attempt to enforce one social value you break another.
So I hope that I have now pointed out at least one or more reasons
that will make your stop these pointless postings. Replaying to
postings based on their content is acceptable. Replying to postings
based their construct is not.
Cardman.
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
06 Aug 2005 07:40:21 PM |
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Cardman wrote:
Is there nothing better that you can do than to correct the spelling
faults from multiple posters?
sometimes
In fact, considering the international aspect of the Usenet, where
many people do not have English as their first language, then it is in
fact quite bizarre to assume that everyone has perfect written English
language skills.
I don't.
Should you have ever made a spelling mistake, which is something that
seem impossible to avoid, then you have no right to point out other
peoples language failings, when doing so would be very hypocritical of
you.
I correct myself, so take back your red herring.
I would even start to suspect that you may have a superiority complex,
but that remains to be seen.
I do; I yell back at Uncle Al.
Since language is not a constant, where neither do you own it, then it
is really my choice on how I wish to use it. The written language is
about passing on understanding through text, where my postings
certainly achieve that goal.
If one's choice is wrong, then I will correct it. The commonest
mistakes blur understanding from the endless precision I want and like.
I have no idea just what your irritation is with such minor faults in
all these postings, but I can assure you that pointing out these
things is very much against general Usenet netiquette. So in your
attempt to enforce one social value you break another.
Prove it, but I don't care about etiquette or manners when they
disregard the truth.
So I hope that I have now pointed out at least one or more reasons
that will make your stop these pointless postings. Replaying to
postings based on their content is acceptable. Replying to postings
based their construct is not.
They're not pointless.
-Aut
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| User: "Brad Guth" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
07 Aug 2005 10:54:07 AM |
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Autymn D. C.,
Prove it, but I don't care about etiquette or manners when they
disregard the truth.
Lets talk about disregarding the truth, such as disregarding the
physics truths about our moon, the fly-by-rocket truths that haven't
been demonstrated as to safely function as of today and much less of 4
decades ago, then disregarding the Kodak photo-chemical physics truths
as to what such unfiltered Kodak moments should have recorded, and so
forth as to another hundred or so topics and/or items that simply do
not add up unless you're another incest cloned brown-nosed borg of the
mainstream status quo.
What part of my "etiquette", dyslexic syntax, grammar or whatever isn't
sufficient this time around?
~
Don't look now: in spite of your orchestrated status quo, it seems
there's been other life upon Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as interactive
within the ME-L1/EM-L2 sweet-spot
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Protomoons, Venus ETs, Earthly ETs plus a few other somewhat testy
topics by; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
.
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| User: "Brad Guth" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
04 Aug 2005 06:42:43 PM |
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Cardman;
Sedna sure is not icy. Ice does not come in red. :-]
Under an solar iron and titanium deposited cloak it may just be an icy
protomoon of at least a good layer of CO2/ice, and perhaps a core of
H2O/ice as sequestered within a pumice like matrix of whatever rock or
chunk of a spent star. Either way it's density isn't hardly suggestive
of all that much other than icy something or another.
There we go again. Thinking that just because these items are out in
the cold dark regions that they are less worthy. And thus by bringing
them into the "light" they then become holy and worthy of our respect.
Actually I've been considering Venus as Sirius-c, -d, -e or Sirius
whatever, and that of our moon once belonging to the likes of Sirius-c.
According to stellar motions; how often has our solar system cruised
nearby the Sirius star system?
~
Don't look now: in spite of an orchestrated status quo, it seems
there's been other life upon Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as interactive
within the ME-L1/EM-L2 sweet-spot
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Protomoons, Venus ETs, Earthly ETs plus a few other somewhat testy
topics by; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
.
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
05 Aug 2005 12:02:14 AM |
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On 4 Aug 2005 16:42:43 -0700, "Brad Guth" <ieisbradguth@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Cardman;
Sedna sure is not icy. Ice does not come in red. :-]
Under an solar iron and titanium deposited cloak it may just be an icy
protomoon of at least a good layer of CO2/ice, and perhaps a core of
H2O/ice as sequestered within a pumice like matrix of whatever rock or
chunk of a spent star. Either way it's density isn't hardly suggestive
of all that much other than icy something or another.
Well I guess that I should have clarified that I was talking just
about the surface. I have mentioned before that this red would be
reduced had it been subject to a higher volume of impacts.
Sedna is highly likely to be ice lower down, but the Universe is well
known to come up with the odd surprise.
There we go again. Thinking that just because these items are out in
the cold dark regions that they are less worthy. And thus by bringing
them into the "light" they then become holy and worthy of our respect.
Actually I've been considering Venus as Sirius-c, -d, -e or Sirius
whatever, and that of our moon once belonging to the likes of Sirius-c.
Your point seems to escape me.
According to stellar motions; how often has our solar system cruised
nearby the Sirius star system?
That answer I cannot locate. Still, seeing that this binary star
system is only 8.57 light years away, then adding in the fact that
Sirius-A is 2.14 times the mass of the Sun, then so can you see why
our Sun would like to head in that direction,
It is worth noting that Gliese 710 will pass about 70,000 AU from our
Sun in about 1.4 million years from now. There goes our theoretical
Oort Cloud again.
Cardman.
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| User: "Brad Guth" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
05 Aug 2005 02:47:58 PM |
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Cardman;
Actually I've been considering Venus as Sirius-c, -d, -e or Sirius
whatever, and that of our moon once belonging to the likes of Sirius-c.
Your point seems to escape me.
What can I say, other than ICE-AGES and of the subsequent cycle of land
erosions, plus considering upon those well recorded cycles of diatom
deposits and, the CO2 that's another hard-science matter of recorded
fact as extracted from multiple ice cores going back some odd 750,000
years thus far. Do you have any other 105,000 some odd year worth of a
nearby stellar cycle of whatever to suggest?
According to stellar motions; how often has our solar system cruised
nearby the Sirius star system?
That answer I cannot locate. Still, seeing that this binary star
system is only 8.57 light years away, then adding in the fact that
Sirius-A is 2.14 times the mass of the Sun, then so can you see why
our Sun would like to head in that direction,
Actually, I believe the combined mass of the Sirius star system (other
star[s], planets, Kuiper/Oort stuff) up against ours is more like
3.5:1, possibly as great as 4:1 if that Sirius Kuiper/Oort population
of somewhat more massive items is multiplied by the square of the
available core and Kuiper belt mass.
It is worth noting that Gliese 710 will pass about 70,000 AU from our
Sun in about 1.4 million years from now. There goes our theoretical
Oort Cloud again.
That's both good and a bad thing to know about, that eventually the
likes of "Gliese 710" may interact within sufficient range of 70,000
AU, which should accomplish some real collateral damage.
At a time of such a stellar merging, is the Gliese 710 Oort cloud
rotating with or against ours?
Same question goes for that of the Sirius Oort cloud; is it going with
or against ours?
I believe it'll make a measured difference if the Oort to Oort impacts
are those of a few hundred m/s to perhaps a km/s, as opposed to the sum
of their colliding velocities becoming those of many extra km/s. A
couple of icy Sedna or somewhat larger orbs running head to head into
one another could prove rather nasty if any of that's redirected and/or
attracted towards our mother Earth, or even that of impacting our moon
isn't exactly without some risk of subsequently taking out a few of us
in the process.
~
Don't look now: in spite of your orchestrated status quo, it seems
there's been other life upon Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as interactive
within the ME-L1/EM-L2 sweet-spot
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Protomoons, Venus ETs, Earthly ETs plus a few other somewhat testy
topics by; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
.
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
05 Aug 2005 09:44:02 PM |
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On 5 Aug 2005 12:47:58 -0700, "Brad Guth" <ieisbradguth@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Cardman;
Actually I've been considering Venus as Sirius-c, -d, -e or Sirius
whatever, and that of our moon once belonging to the likes of Sirius-c.
Your point seems to escape me.
What can I say, other than ICE-AGES and of the subsequent cycle of land
erosions, plus considering upon those well recorded cycles of diatom
deposits and, the CO2 that's another hard-science matter of recorded
fact as extracted from multiple ice cores going back some odd 750,000
years thus far. Do you have any other 105,000 some odd year worth of a
nearby stellar cycle of whatever to suggest?
I see. This killing Oort Cloud thing again.
According to stellar motions; how often has our solar system cruised
nearby the Sirius star system?
That answer I cannot locate. Still, seeing that this binary star
system is only 8.57 light years away, then adding in the fact that
Sirius-A is 2.14 times the mass of the Sun, then so can you see why
our Sun would like to head in that direction,
Actually, I believe the combined mass of the Sirius star system (other
star[s], planets, Kuiper/Oort stuff) up against ours is more like
3.5:1, possibly as great as 4:1 if that Sirius Kuiper/Oort population
of somewhat more massive items is multiplied by the square of the
available core and Kuiper belt mass.
Yes, so a nice big mass to cause disruption in out galactic
neighbourhood. The other stars around here are smaller than the Sun.
It is worth noting that Gliese 710 will pass about 70,000 AU from our
Sun in about 1.4 million years from now. There goes our theoretical
Oort Cloud again.
That's both good and a bad thing to know about, that eventually the
likes of "Gliese 710" may interact within sufficient range of 70,000
AU, which should accomplish some real collateral damage.
Not really. They ran this simulation through a super computer and
estimated that Earth had a low 5% chance of being hit by something.
More interesting to know is that the Algol star system passed within
about 625,000 AU of us about 7.3 million years ago. Although Gliese
710 will pass a lot closer in the future, but Algol would have caused
much more disruption because this system weighs in at 5.8 solar
masses.
As you an see we still live on. Not that we were exactly around 7.3
million years ago that is.
At a time of such a stellar merging, is the Gliese 710 Oort cloud
rotating with or against ours?
No idea. I doubt this would make much of a difference in any case when
two Oort Clouds collide.
Same question goes for that of the Sirius Oort cloud; is it going with
or against ours?
I believe that I should mention that the Oort Cloud is currently a
theory. The Kuiper Belt is real, but this Oort Cloud has yet to be
proved.
Sedna makes for an interesting case. Although this object goes all the
way out to 928 AU, but the Oort Cloud theory says that the Oort Cloud
should range between about 50,000 and 100,000 AU.
So Sedna is in a location not counted for in current theory. Some
people say that the Kuiper Belt is larger than first assumed, while
others say that the Oort Cloud has an inner region as well.
Maybe they should just face the fact that it is the same sort of thing
all the way out.
I believe it'll make a measured difference if the Oort to Oort impacts
are those of a few hundred m/s to perhaps a km/s, as opposed to the sum
of their colliding velocities becoming those of many extra km/s.
They have already run those numbers, where your great great grand
children have a 5% chance of being killed.
A
couple of icy Sedna or somewhat larger orbs running head to head into
one another could prove rather nasty if any of that's redirected and/or
attracted towards our mother Earth, or even that of impacting our moon
isn't exactly without some risk of subsequently taking out a few of us
in the process.
Since in 1.4 million years time, you won't be around, then there is
little point spending your life worrying about it.
Cardman,
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| User: "Scott Hedrick" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
06 Aug 2005 03:11:08 PM |
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"Cardman" <do-not@spam-me.com> wrote in message
news:2l78f1tnjp3nb7tf6djm3nvsvv6m75iv9n@4ax.com...
I see. This killing Oort Cloud thing again.
What we need to do is send some advisors out there to teach the Cloud to aim
better. It keeps missing Brad.
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| User: "Brad Guth" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
07 Aug 2005 10:30:08 AM |
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Cardman; "I see. This killing Oort Cloud thing again."
I'm not actually so much of a doom and gloom sort of guy, whereas I'm
just trying to get an outsider grasp upon what cruising sufficiently
close by the likes of the Sirius star system might have involved.
Obviously the odds of our getting Kuiper/Oort contributions that'll
touch our frail environment seems a bit likely, although because of our
atmosphere being somewhat of an influx buffer/moderation zone that's
affording a great deal of effective shielding from such nasty items,
that is as long as the majority of such items are of somewhat
icy/pumice substances.
It's certainly not that you or myself are going to be anywhere nearby
the next time that happens, although the dirt we've become may just get
summarily pulverised to a fairlywell, especially well pulverised if
these Oort to Oort encounters are in opposing/retrograde to one another
because, there's little doubt that the KE=0.5MV2 factor isn't going to
be avoided. Since outer Kuiper and especially Oort stuff isn't moving
terribly fast with respect to our frame of coexistence, it's therefor
the matter of gravity attracting upon one another that's going to get
interesting and perhaps very happenstance worthy of nailing our sorry
butts.
OK by me if potentially retrograde mergings of Oort clouds are either
quite sparse, mother nature's WMD stealth of even nonexistent, although
the teams of wizards that have been suggesting otherwise are gaining a
few points by their identifying a few of the larger items, of those
somewhat following the laws of physics and orbital mechanics at that.
Why is this Oort stuff and/or interstellar motions so testy for someone
as yourself that otherwise believes in phony baloney NASA/Apollo
crapolla of such soft-science and conditional-physics that sucks. It
seems that's about as SF as the pure fiction of your conditional laws
of physics gets, and yet there's still no lunar hard-science as
obtained from the surface, nor whatsoever sign of them Apollo cows. Why
is Venus so stealth/invisible to your mindset, as it was impossible for
those NASA/Apollo naked moonsuit adventures to have noticed, much less
easily recorded as another of their unfiltered Kodak moments?
If on behalf of your Gliese 710, whereas "They ran this simulation
through a super computer and estimated that Earth had a low 5% chance
of being hit by something" is worth doing, then why not superimpose the
sorts of stellar motions that'll get us to within at least 0.086 light
years of Sirius, then for the sporting sort of guy you are, lets take a
super computer look-see at what a somewhat tighter elliptical orbital
path might suggest, in that we try out a near pass of 0.0086 light
years distance in order to see exactly what those super computer CPUs
of yours have to say. BTW; whom is "They"?
I'll agree that your Algol at 5.8 solar masses passing to within
625,000 AU (nearly 9.9 light years) was worth noting, whereas
considering the extremely nearby mass as being worthy by merely 3.5:1
(possibly as great as 4:1) of the entire Sirius star system could also
have been most interesting upon every 105,000 +/- 5,000 some odd years,
especially if such were arriving within 0.086 LY (5,438 AU) along with
the once red-giant worth of Sirius-b kicking some of it's own serious
gravity butt and obviously sharing a good amount of IR photon dosage to
boot. Of course, these days Sirius-b has become the little white-dwarf
of a star that's mostly UV and as such downright nasty to being
anywhere near that little sucker.
On the other hand, I'm actually thinking that you're just as likely
correct in that the likes of Sedna may not be a Kuiper or an even an
Oort thing, just somewhat of another common interstellar ping-pong
worth of an icy pumice orb that's influenced by the nearby stars into
the path that it's taking, in much the same manner as is Pluto's orbit
having been established somewhat skewed because of our nearby
association with the Sirius star system. That is unless you've got
another black hole or two that hasn't been disclosed because it's
simply too freaking close.
If your Algol star system of having passed us by at 9.9 LY distance
represented 5% odds of Earth getting nailed by something significant,
then perhaps certainly the elliptical path bringing our solar system to
within 0.086 LY influence of the Sirius star system should become worth
a considerably worse outcome, especially if some of our big stuff gets
aligned with the really bigger stuff of the Sirius star system. What's
the chance of melting down a few of your super computer CPUs on the
weird notion that we have this 105,000 some odd year association with
the Sirius star system, and lets see how many times and of exactly
where we've been and of what we're in for.
Seems only someone having an ulterior motive and/or something other to
hide is going to object to this honest usage of such super computers,
that are mostly if not entirely tax dollar bought and paid for and
currently funded as for their facilities and operation.
I'm not the least bit worried about the 1.4 million year cycle of
whatever your doom and gloom has to offer, as your form of humanity
will have long since pillaged, plundered and summarily destroyed itself
by 1.399 of those 1.4 million years. The honest question is; why are
you dog-wagging and otherwise infomercial snookering us into thinking
there's absolutely nothing worth researching and/or doing anything
about unless it suits MOS ulterior motives and hidden agendas that
pleases your borg collective mindset?
~
Don't look now: in spite of your orchestrated status quo, it seems
there's been other life upon Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as interactive
within the ME-L1/EM-L2 sweet-spot
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Protomoons, Venus ETs, Earthly ETs plus a few other somewhat testy
topics by; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
.
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
07 Aug 2005 08:46:23 PM |
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On 7 Aug 2005 08:30:08 -0700, "Brad Guth" <ieisbradguth@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Cardman; "I see. This killing Oort Cloud thing again."
I'm not actually so much of a doom and gloom sort of guy, whereas I'm
just trying to get an outsider grasp upon what cruising sufficiently
close by the likes of the Sirius star system might have involved.
Well, since you seem so interested in this subject, then how about
changing things around. So just what would you like scientists to do
to tackle this killer Sedna-clone problem from the heavens?
Since it seems to me that we don't really yet have the technology to
do a much better job then what we are already doing, then maybe your
ideas like "a radar system on the moon" should be put aside until the
day when we actually have enough people, energy, and hardware, on the
moon to even consider it.
After all, given simply odds alone, then no killer Sednas will be
heading our way any time soon. So we therefore have plenty of time to
work on better projects in the future.
Obviously the odds of our getting Kuiper/Oort contributions that'll
touch our frail environment seems a bit likely, although because of our
atmosphere being somewhat of an influx buffer/moderation zone that's
affording a great deal of effective shielding from such nasty items,
that is as long as the majority of such items are of somewhat
icy/pumice substances.
Certainly, asteroid impacts are well documented. However, we are much
more likely to only be hit by things that are of minor concern. On
their risk scale no known object has been above level 1, where the
only object that did make level 1 was soon downgraded.
So there is simply no known level 10 sure impact heading our way.
It's certainly not that you or myself are going to be anywhere nearby
the next time that happens, although the dirt we've become may just get
summarily pulverised to a fairlywell, especially well pulverised if
these Oort to Oort encounters are in opposing/retrograde to one another
because, there's little doubt that the KE=0.5MV2 factor isn't going to
be avoided.
Well despite your paranoia it is worth other people remembering that
they are more likely to die in an asteroid impact than in a plane
crash. Simply because, despite asteroid impacts being so rare, then
when they do hit they kill so many people at once.
Since outer Kuiper and especially Oort stuff isn't moving
terribly fast with respect to our frame of coexistence, it's therefor
the matter of gravity attracting upon one another that's going to get
interesting and perhaps very happenstance worthy of nailing our sorry
butts.
Yes, two Oort Clouds going head to head is a point of additional
concern.
Why is this Oort stuff and/or interstellar motions so testy for someone
as yourself that otherwise believes in phony baloney NASA/Apollo
crapolla of such soft-science and conditional-physics that sucks. It
seems that's about as SF as the pure fiction of your conditional laws
of physics gets, and yet there's still no lunar hard-science as
obtained from the surface, nor whatsoever sign of them Apollo cows. Why
is Venus so stealth/invisible to your mindset, as it was impossible for
those NASA/Apollo naked moonsuit adventures to have noticed, much less
easily recorded as another of their unfiltered Kodak moments?
I am still waiting for you to answer my question concerning your
stated belief when NASA once again lands on the Moon and directly
shows off evidence of their previous landings.
You are simply a reflection of people in modern society questioning
how NASA can spend 30+ years going round and round in LEO, when they
once made it to the moon. Is it therefore not unfair to express their
unhappiness by questioning if NASA made it to the Moon at all.
So this theory will quickly fade, not when NASA points out that it is
false, but when they once again directly prove that it can be done.
If on behalf of your Gliese 710, whereas "They ran this simulation
through a super computer and estimated that Earth had a low 5% chance
of being hit by something" is worth doing, then why not superimpose the
sorts of stellar motions that'll get us to within at least 0.086 light
years of Sirius, then for the sporting sort of guy you are, lets take a
super computer look-see at what a somewhat tighter elliptical orbital
path might suggest, in that we try out a near pass of 0.0086 light
years distance in order to see exactly what those super computer CPUs
of yours have to say.
From my research I see no evidence that the Sirius star system will
actually come close to us any time soon. So you should be more on
about Gliese 710, when this lower mass star will pass right through
the middle of our theoretical Oort Cloud.
I'll agree that your Algol at 5.8 solar masses passing to within
625,000 AU (nearly 9.9 light years) was worth noting, whereas
considering the extremely nearby mass as being worthy by merely 3.5:1
(possibly as great as 4:1) of the entire Sirius star system could also
have been most interesting upon every 105,000 +/- 5,000 some odd years,
especially if such were arriving within 0.086 LY (5,438 AU) along with
the once red-giant worth of Sirius-b kicking some of it's own serious
gravity butt and obviously sharing a good amount of IR photon dosage to
boot. Of course, these days Sirius-b has become the little white-dwarf
of a star that's mostly UV and as such downright nasty to being
anywhere near that little sucker.
So maybe you can tell me just when Sirius is due to pay us a visit,
when in 100,000 years time is not it. The Sirius star system is 8.57
light years away, where it currently seems to be moving at a relative
speed of 7.6 km/s.
Since one light year is 9.46 × 10^12, then 8.57 light years means that
Sirius is about 81,072,200,000,000 km away. And at 7.6 km/s it would
take 339,190 years to get here.
That is overlooking changes in relative speed of course, which should
be unlikely to change much seeing that Sirius is the big boy in the
neighbourhood. However, it also appears to me that Sirius is currently
moving away from us instead of towards us.
On the other hand, I'm actually thinking that you're just as likely
correct in that the likes of Sedna may not be a Kuiper or an even an
Oort thing, just somewhat of another common interstellar ping-pong
worth of an icy pumice orb that's influenced by the nearby stars into
the path that it's taking,
That is one current theory. They currently conclude that Sedna could
not have got where it currently is, without something else putting it
there.
in much the same manner as is Pluto's orbit
having been established somewhat skewed because of our nearby
association with the Sirius star system.
LOL. More like Neptune. I am also sure that it is true to say that
Neptune does send your KBOs all over the place.
That is unless you've got another black hole or two that hasn't been
disclosed because it's simply too freaking close.
You do not have to worry about black holes. One fact is that black
holes tend to sink down to the center of their galaxy, where given
enough time they will merge with the central massive black hole.
Since our solar system is not anywhere close to the center of our
galaxy, where neither are we on the path to ever go there, then quite
simply we are not where all the black holes like to hang out.
A near by black hole should not concern you much anyway, when their
major output will be gravity. So they would move about like a star
within an actual star system.
If your Algol star system of having passed us by at 9.9 LY distance
represented 5% odds of Earth getting nailed by something significant,
The odds would likely have been a touch higher than 5%.
then perhaps certainly the elliptical path bringing our solar system to
within 0.086 LY influence of the Sirius star system should become worth
a considerably worse outcome,
Not within 100,000 years it won't.
especially if some of our big stuff gets
aligned with the really bigger stuff of the Sirius star system. What's
the chance of melting down a few of your super computer CPUs on the
weird notion that we have this 105,000 some odd year association with
the Sirius star system, and lets see how many times and of exactly
where we've been and of what we're in for.
Theory says that there is a link between passing star systems and mass
extinctions on Earth, but this is based on all star systems and not
just Sirius.
I'm not the least bit worried about the 1.4 million year cycle of
whatever your doom and gloom has to offer, as your form of humanity
will have long since pillaged, plundered and summarily destroyed itself
by 1.399 of those 1.4 million years. The honest question is; why are
you dog-wagging and otherwise infomercial snookering us into thinking
there's absolutely nothing worth researching and/or doing anything
about unless it suits MOS ulterior motives and hidden agendas that
pleases your borg collective mindset?
We are tiny compared to star systems. Our best defense is to spread
everywhere, kind of like a virus.
Your Sedna-like impact in one location won't affect all the rest in
other words. So we don't need radars on the Moon, but an efficient
space program, and then people breeding like rabbits.
So simply by getting extra friendly with your partner, and supporting
space programmes, then you can rest assured that you are helping our
species survive a Sedna-like impact.
Cardman.
.
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| User: "Brad Guth" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
09 Aug 2005 04:51:49 PM |
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Cardman,
Thanks for all the terrific feedback that's as usual mainstream or
bust.
Well, since you seem so interested in this subject, then how about
changing things around. So just what would you like scientists to do
to tackle this killer Sedna-clone problem from the heavens?
In theory at least, I'd take advantage of such icy orbs by way of
directing whatever else there is that's moving about into impacting the
likes of Sedna, so as to redirecting that icy/pumice orb of a sucker
into merging along with Venus, if need be impacting Venus should
accomplish a sufficient release of a great deal of whatever's icy about
Sedna into accomplishing the likes of 40 days and nights worth of
flooding that supposedly hot and nasty environment, providing just the
sort of enema that a geologically hotter than hellish sort of newish
planet needs in order to start cooling things down by a few hundred
degrees K.
Since it seems to me that we don't really yet have the technology to
do a much better job then what we are already doing, then maybe your
ideas like "a radar system on the moon" should be put aside until the
day when we actually have enough people, energy, and hardware, on the
moon to even consider it.
There's no good reason for placing a "radar system on the moon"
because, we already have sufficient terrestrial radar transmitting
capability as is. What we don't have are those image receiving
apertures deployed at the good VLA average distance of 384,400 km, that
which would give our astronomers a real madnification look-see factor
that'll knock our socks off. Such radar image receiving apertures are
relatively small, reasonably robust, quite energy efficient and once
having been constructed for the lunar environment is where they really
shouldn't require any humans, perhaps not even for the task of
deploying such instruments, that is if we could manage to keeping our
coo; long enough as to work with them Russians for mutually getting to
the level of our actually having an honest robotic/AI fly-by-rocket
lander that could sufficiently down-range and maneouver about as to
carfully landing such robotic packages onto a less dusty lunar mountain
or crater rim of mostly bedrock.
Since this form of imaging receiving aperture effort (good for
multi-looks of 16 bits/pixel) would be a one-way deployment, whereas
such this fly-by-rocket lander could even need become nicely managed
via remote pilot, especially doable if that RC pilot were somewhat
nearby as station-keeping within the relative safety of the ME-L1
(mutual gravity-well) sweet spot, whereas the vidio responce feedback
delay of perhaps what's created by 62,000 km would be a reasonably
short 207 ms, thus short enough that an interactive human interface
into flying that otherwise robotic/AI fly-by-rocket lander should
become doable and, because it's not going to be returning any samples
is why it's going to have plenty of spare fuel capacity as for
accommodating several extra minutes worth of controlled flight, so as
to allow for the best landing site selection.
After all, given simply odds alone, then no killer Sednas will be
heading our way any time soon. So we therefore have plenty of time to
work on better projects in the future.
I agree that unless ETs get really pissed at us, there's not much
chance of an icy Sedna arriving any time soon, although it certainly
would be a nice thing to know via your super computer as to just how
much of applied energy and/or of an impact upon Sedna at the right
time, proper vector and velocity for thus directing the likes of Sedna
into going wherver we'd like it to go. In which case our exploration of
distant places can be accommodated by way of our getting attached
and/or situated deep into the icy orb that's going to protect us and
even fuel our mission to wherever. Such as taking advantage of the
outward bound trajectory of Sedna; what would it take as to directing
Sedna towards the Sirius star system?
Once past the mutual nullification point of no-return, from that point
on Sedna shouldn't require all that much applied thrust as to getting
on some real speed. If it weren't for the Vt(terminal velocity) of
space travel, say 30,000 km/s might even become doable by the time it's
getting close to the Sirius star system, though having to utilize
Sirius-b as a gravational breaking maneouver might get a wee bit testy
unless the ETs of Sirius-c manage to salvage our sorry butts before
it's too late.
So there is simply no known level 10 sure impact heading our way.
I'm assuming a "level 10" is Earth killer, or at least a significant
portion of Earth would ve vaporised upon such an impact. Obvously
you're assuming that ETs (God's little helpers) haven't the capability
nor do they see any need of their having to terminate a serious threat
of our mutated DNA/RNA tghat's about to run amuck on other worlds.
Well despite your paranoia it is worth other people remembering that
they are more likely to die in an asteroid impact than in a plane
crash. Simply because, despite asteroid impacts being so rare, then
when they do hit they kill so many people at once.
It's a darn good thing that you weren't around when Einstein was alive,
as you'd certainly be calling that fool paranoid for thinking outside
the box. What other thinking that's external to your mainstream status
quo box is worthy of being classified as paranoid?
I am still waiting for you to answer my question concerning your
stated belief when NASA once again lands on the Moon and directly
shows off evidence of their previous landings.
So this theory will quickly fade, not when NASA points out that it is
false, but when they once again directly prove that it can be done.
When and if NASA manages to land whatever upon the moon, and if at that
time they manage as to document the previous Apollo remainders just as
having been depicted in their cold-war rusemaster NOVA infomercials,
millions of history books and science journals, and as such not
otherwise depicting of the impact craters as having been suggested via
the laws of physics, our total lack of any such fly-by-rocket
capability and via satellite images, as then I'll have to retract and
fully appolgise my sorry butt off. However, there's been decades of
time for the likes of much simpler one-way robotic missions to have
accomplished such imaging as well as a multitude of other important
sorts of moon-science and especially Earth-science if anything should
actually survive a remote landing and deployment, yet for more than a
dacade even the LUNAR-A mission has been kept on hold, denied their
mission because I believe such would simply have been far too revealing
as to the inner composition, of the near surface and even of the actual
surface environment of where it's of such a nasty dark and thick duxty
composite of substances that are not hardly clumping, and otherwise
quit reactive in the matter of physics-101 fact of such creating
secondary/recoil photons, thus blowing our perpetrated cold-war lids
clean off, and then some.
Remember that the original Apollo orbits (BTW; not necessarily manned)
of roughly 100 km off the deck and with the added advantage of using a
10X telephoto lens was good for 38,440:1 magnification as having been
recorded upon essentially B&W 8192 x 8192 pixel equivelent film of 256
bit/pixel resolution that wasn't exactly insufficient as to have easily
recorded their own landing sites. Out of hundreds if not thousands of
such frames from the official Apollo archives, oddly there's not one
such image to behold. Ever since there's not been squat worth of
anything as good nor better, even the SMART-1 images of somewhat less
resoultion are being sequestered. So, you tell me what's been going on.
Actually, team KECK with the latest in 2 micron/pixel format should be
getting damn good, whereas that's almost as good of resolution of
what's possible to record upon high-resolution B&W film, especially
interesting would be if that's a sufficient exposure onto the positive
photographic plate that's many fold better resolution than film.
BTW; I've noticed that you haven't bothered as to post a link to any
such Apollo landing site. If you like, I can share lots of such
official images that are perfectly believablwe of whatever's artificial
that impacted and thus vaporised itself into the moon.
From my research I see no evidence that the Sirius star system will
actually come close to us any time soon.
Obviously your form of research employs as much evidence exclusion as
it'll take, as to ignoring the 750 thousand year ice-core samples that
clearly shows a hard-scientific matter of fact as to the 105,000 some
odd year cycle of CO2 and other atmospheric gas related elements that
you can't otherwise explain as being terrestrial and or locally solar
influx caused, nor has there been any terrestrial geological cycle
that's capable, which leaves us with the external influx of something
quite Sirius like as being at the root cause of such fluctuations.
Obviously the Sirius star system is by far the biggest and nearest
other significant star system that's worthy of affecting our
environment and, you've obviously got nothing other on the table that's
the least bit worthy of a similar stellar cycle as having a similar
energy influx potential as per what could have been delivered via our
orbiting the Sirius star system.
If everthing else within this universe is supposedly associated with
and/or orbits something, then why can't we, as cohabitating within our
solar system, have been as a collective of planets along with that of
our small sun orbiting the likes of Sirius?
Obviously you can't have your mainstream status quo cake and eate it
too. So which is it?
So maybe you can tell me just when Sirius is due to pay us a visit,
when in 100,000 years time is not it. The Sirius star system is 8.57
light years away, where it currently seems to be moving at a relative
speed of 7.6 km/s.
I've been estimating roughly 64,000 some odd years from now is when
we'll be getting real close to one another. Obviously I'd need a super
computer and some wizard like yourself that's smart enough for
utilizing that computer along with it's software, as to getting that
estimate a bit more refined.
Since one light year is 9.46 =D7 10^12, then 8.57 light years means that
Sirius is about 81,072,200,000,000 km away. And at 7.6 km/s it would
take 339,190 years to get here.
Since we're the ping-pong ball of this situation (obviously Sirius
isn't being attracted towards us), and because of our relative mass
being 3.5:1 less than that of the Sirius star system. Unless I'm
actually the village idiot that folks have been insisting upon; isn't
the velocity of an elliptical orbit somewhat of a variable, especially
from our perspective by way of our mutually coexisting within such a
tight elliptical path?
It's been awhile since I'd checked as to what others had been posting
as to the relative motion of Sirius but, I'd thought that we were still
in a recession mode of roughly 8+ some odd km/s, thus within the
departing phase of an elliptical orbit. Although, if that's already
turned itself around as for becoming a closing SOA that's 7.6 km/s,
then obviously at some point we're going to accelerate until we're
traveling at a good rate of velocity towards our future reunion with
Sirius. If the average velocity of our closing in on Sirius was just 40
km/s we'd be right on track with my 64,000 year mark of being UV,
near-UV and loads of near-blue photon dosed to a fairlywell. I suppose
that'll have to place our average interstellar orbital velocity at
nearly 50 km/s since we're in what should become a reasonably tight
elliptical path.
BTW; what's the interstellar SM Vt(stellar medium of terminal velocity
or slug coefficient) worth these days?
Of course, if you should come across some other stellar item that's in
sufficient motion as to being a better alternate of a 105,000 some odd
year cycle, of a similar stellar quality of illumination consideration
to boot, then by all means lets hear about it. Since Sirius-b was once
upon a time a red-giant and Sirius-a was most likely a bit more
visually intensive than what the human eye perceive as of today,
chances are that the next encounter isn't going to be nearly as
beneficial to the likes of melting vast amounts of ice and of enhancing
the reproducing cycles of diatoms. However, I can't image any other
stellar source of such worthy illumination contributing to our
environment to the point of causing such a horrific ice melt and
subsequent diatom spurt of growth, thus re-shaping the landscape prior
to becoming more than half frozen again. Of course since we humans have
managed to shift the global albedo of mother Earth into the nearest
space-toilet, chance are that this planet isn't ever going to see
another full-blown ice age, thus ever eroding of the remaining land
masses is about all that we've got to look forward to, therefore lesser
dry land and more ocean spread from the melting ice and erosion
displacements might get us down to less than 20% worth of dry land, of
which at best we'll have all of 10% to survive upon at that.
Lets see what the likes of 12.5 billions worth of arrogant, greedy and
obviously bigoted folks can manage upon 5e13 m2, as per whatever it's
worth in terms of their surviving WW-III, WW-IV and of whomever's left
to fight the good fight of WW-V over the last few tonnes worth of
extremely low-grade coal, a few drops of oil as having been extracted
from oily dirt and shale, and over the last few m3 worth of NG. After
all, that's 4,000 m2/soul of nutrient starved and incest mutated soil
to work with that surrounded by oceans of dead zones that only a few
species of jellyfish can survive within.
Obviously you and I will not be here to enjoy all the warm and fuzzy
collateral damage and carnage of the innocent. Thus by your all-know
expertise and vast talents should not be wasted on what doesn't matter
to yourself or those of your mainstream Skull and Bones status quo
because, apparently you're all headed for the likes of Mars, or of some
other God forsaken place that's other than Venus.
As to Pluto being contributed and/or skewed from out of our Kuiper/Oort
zone by whatever the nearby Sirius star system had to offer;
LOL. More like Neptune. I am also sure that it is true to say that
Neptune does send your KBOs all over the place.
No freaking LOL because, instead of my being limited to your
terrestrial and otherwise local solar system as affecting our
environment and the likes of Pluto, I'm clearly a free though somewhat
dyslexic soul that's thinking way outside of that highly restrictive
and somewhat religious/political conditional-physics ideology box, a
box of such profound social/political and religoius limitations that it
quite frankly sucks and blows at the same time.
I do however greatly appreciate the following;
A near by black hole should not concern you much anyway, when their
major output will be gravity. So they would move about like a star
within an actual star system.
However, what if said black hole is actually an amount of anti-matter
that's nicely cloaked, that's simply a core or seed of anti-matter as
having become surrounded by those trillions upon trillions of nearly
resting photons/m3, as perhaps there should be at some point within or
near the event horizon that's offering somewhat of a nullification of
gravity or matter/anti-matter forces.
As to stuff as derived from the Sirius star system becoming an issue;
Not within 100,000 years it won't.
Obviously this reply of yours is yet another example of your mainstream
status quo box limitations taking control over your incest cloned
intellectual mindset that simply can't ever get unplugged from your
collective without fear of being terminated by your own kind.
Theory says that there is a link between passing star systems and mass
extinctions on Earth, but this is based on all star systems and not
just Sirius.
Being that Sirius is quite massive and having been relatively nearby,
I'll have to agree 100% with such perceptions that essentially all
things are somehow interrelated and somewhat interactive. What do you
suppose the vast numbers of photons (perhaps 1e100 photoms per atom)
has if anything to do with that?
Your Sedna-like impact in one location won't affect all the rest in
other words. So we don't need radars on the Moon, but an efficient
space program, and then people breeding like rabbits.
Sorry my friend but, we simply can't possibly get ourselves safely nor
efficiently from here to anywhere other without the LSE-CM/ISS up and
running. Get it?
Secondly; the notion of getting Sedna into impacting anything is at
best intended for icing down the likes of Venus, which is an absolute
win-win for all but a few tens of thousands of Venusians or of those
ETs as having been camping out on Venus. Adding a good dosage of H2O
into that environment should make a good number of nasty things quire
reactive to say the least.
So simply by getting extra friendly with your partner, and supporting
space programmes, then you can rest assured that you are helping our
species survive a Sedna-like impact.
Obviously you're the one that's going intellectually postal by way of
your being so anti-evidence, thus anti-science and actually you're also
intellectually somewhat bigoted if not anti-God and of otherwise anti
upon just about everything and/or anything under the sun that's not
your idea or that otherwise rocks your pathetic mainstream status quo
fleet of boats. Here I'm just the local messenger from hell that's
trying my warm and fuzzy best to summarily sink your entire fleet of
such status quo boats and lo and behold, darn if it seems as though
you're not about to help with the task at hand. Why is that?
There's nothing of what I've uncovered or discovered or having proposed
that's anti-God, anti-physics, anti-science nor anti-humanity. Yet just
about every other phrase that you've offered is about as negative
and/or anti-whatever or simply do-nothing as you can get. Where the
hell were you when our resident warlord(GW Bush) was claiming all of
those WMD existed, or before then when he was pushing Osama bin Laden's
buttons?
~
Don't look now: in spite of your orchestrated status quo, it seems
there's been other life upon Venus
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-town.htm
The Russian/China LSE-CM/ISS (Lunar Space Elevator) as interactive
within the ME-L1/EM-L2 sweet-spot
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/lunar-space-elevator.htm
Protomoons, Venus ETs, Earthly ETs plus a few other somewhat testy
topics by; Brad Guth / GASA-IEIS
http://guthvenus.tripod.com/gv-topics.htm
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
01 Aug 2005 05:01:44 PM |
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On Mon, 1 Aug 2005 18:05:37 +0200, "Henk Boonsma"
<hboonsma@teranet.news> wrote:
Some people have noted that there may be Pluto sized Kuiper belt objects all
the way up to half the distance to the nearest star-system (Alpha Centauri).
Certainly.
Are we going to classify all these as planets if we classify this Kuiper
belt object as a planet? Let's face it, Pluto was a mistake to be classified
as planet and let's keep it at that!
Just because you cannot list all the planets in your mind does not
make it wrong.
If anything it is just a simple case of humans being the center of the
Universe again. Lets ignore all those remote planets because we only
want to count the ones close to our warm Sun.
What is the matter? Does the notion of 1000 planets in our solar
system scare you? Does the sudden size increase of our safe and known
solar system cause you to have nightmares?
The problem with your idea is that now we have our first KBO that is
larger than Pluto. And I can assure you that this is not the end of
this story by a long way.
Out there will be objects as large as Mercury, Mars and even Earth. I
would even be willing to predict that there could well be a couple of
gas giants as well.
It would also be wrong to class all these as simply oversized ice
packed asteroids. For example Sedna is Red like Mars is. And there is
sure to be many other surprises to be found.
And had you looked at these objects then certainly many of them will
look like planets. So at some point you are doing to have to draw your
line. There is only one answer. Our solar system does really contain
an estimated 1000 planets.
Deal with it.
Cardman.
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| User: "Paul F. Dietz" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
01 Aug 2005 08:13:31 PM |
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Cardman wrote:
Out there will be objects as large as Mercury, Mars and even Earth. I
would even be willing to predict that there could well be a couple of
gas giants as well.
What's really neat (to me) about this is that a Mars or Earth
sized KBO may be able to retain a helium atmosphere. These
bodies could be the best places in the solar system to mine
helium-3, better even than Uranus (since getting back off them
to orbit will be much easier). They'll be way the hell out
there, but we'd presumably have fusion rockets (for which
D-3He is probably the ideal fuel.)
Paul
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
01 Aug 2005 09:39:28 PM |
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On Mon, 01 Aug 2005 20:13:31 -0500, "Paul F. Dietz" <dietz@dls.net>
wrote:
Cardman wrote:
Out there will be objects as large as Mercury, Mars and even Earth. I
would even be willing to predict that there could well be a couple of
gas giants as well.
What's really neat (to me) about this is that a Mars or Earth
sized KBO may be able to retain a helium atmosphere.
That sounds quite possible. It just seems a question of suitable mass,
when there should be plenty of Helium to scoop up.
We will have to see what is in our more local Kuiper Belt, when our
Oort Cloud is a very much larger place to find large planets.
Sedna is really an Oort Cloud object. As if you think that Pluto is a
long way out, at about 32 AU, then Sedna goes all the way out to 928
AU. Fortunately it was detected as it was starting to go back out at
somewhat over 76 AU.
So the longer it takes for someone to send a probe to Sedna the
further away it will be.
It is interesting to note that the Voyager 1 space probe is currently
out at about 96 AU. There it has just about encountered the
Termination Shock. That is the start to the end of our Sun's direct
influence over our local solar system. So all the KBOs, up to at least
this point, do indeed get sunshine. :-]
These
bodies could be the best places in the solar system to mine
helium-3, better even than Uranus (since getting back off them
to orbit will be much easier).
Yes, quite possible. Still, I do not see that "mining Uranus" will be
that much of a problem. You just come in fast and low, scope up the
atmosphere, and then let the laws of physics take you back out.
They'll be way the hell out there,
Well the two Voyager probes have made it well into the Kuiper Belt.
I just wonder if any of these KBOs are yet in the right direction for
New Horizons to pay a visit? As when this New Horizons probe has swung
past Pluto, then it hopes to visit a second KBO.
Alas Sedna is in totally the wrong direction. I have yet to hear word
on if anything else is suitable. That I guess is unlikely. There is a
lot of space out there, where New Horizons only has a small area that
it can cover.
I hope that they are at least looking extra hard in the area that New
Horizons can cover. As it would be a shame to send this probe out that
far without having it's second destination set.
but we'd presumably have fusion rockets (for which
D-3He is probably the ideal fuel.)
It is no good mining He3 until you have a real life working
application. Beyond making a He3 bomb that is. Oddly enough that seems
like the one reason that Warmonger Bush would approve of it.
Cardman.
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| User: "Pat Flannery" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
02 Aug 2005 11:54:02 AM |
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Cardman wrote:
Still, I do not see that "mining Uranus" will be
that much of a problem.
I don't know; it sounds painful to me. :-)
Apparently, the reason that the new KBO got announced in such an odd
manner is that a hacker got into the discovery team's computer files,
and they thought he had probably found out about it- so they hastily
called a press conference:
http://www.sundayindependent.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=2733660&fSectionId=1041
Pat
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
02 Aug 2005 03:06:31 PM |
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On Tue, 02 Aug 2005 11:54:02 -0500, Pat Flannery <flanner@daktel.com>
wrote:
Cardman wrote:
Still, I do not see that "mining Uranus" will be
that much of a problem.
I don't know; it sounds painful to me. :-)
Ah, that old joke. Well astronomers can always try changing the name
again. I would recommend Urectum. ;-]
Apparently, the reason that the new KBO got announced in such an odd
manner is that a hacker got into the discovery team's computer files,
and they thought he had probably found out about it- so they hastily
called a press conference:
http://www.sundayindependent.co.za/index.php?fArticleId=2733660&fSectionId=1041
That is not quite correct. Let me explain.
The thing was that the telescope that this team used generates an
observing log. This includes the astronomers assigned code number for
the object that they have been viewing. In this case that is K40506A.
And the problem here is that Mike Brown's team, in previous months,
held a talk about their current work. During this talk they mentioned
the K40506A code.
The thing is that Brown was planning to also announce 2003 EL61, but a
Spanish team beat them to it. There was posed the question over if
this duplicated find was stolen from them, but this is a claim that
Brown strongly denies.
However, Brown did some research, over if it was indeed possible for
someone to obtain his data. So he simply entered his own observing
code in Google and did a search.
Sure enough this telescope's public on-line observing log was directly
returned. Brown now in shock saw that anyone who now knew where this
log was could also track, and possibly claim, his other finds for
themselves.
So Mike Brown got back to the IAU's MPC to ask them if someone has
really been making use of this data. And sure enough the MPC confirmed
that some other astronomer had indeed been pointing their own
telescope at these same objects, where they also logged down the exact
same observing codes that Mike Brown's team used.
And so they were not really "hacked", when this data was available to
anyone who used Google to search for it. Brown was just being stupid
to give out his observing codes, and then naive over these logs not
being on the Net for all to see.
Since Brown was now fearful that his more important finds could be
claimed by some other astronomer, then that is why he quickly called a
press conference to announce these finds.
It is not that it is the case that some other astronomer would really
steal his work, but he was playing better safe than sorry.
Cardman.
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| User: "George William Herbert" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
02 Aug 2005 10:07:56 PM |
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Cardman <do-not@spam-me.com> wrote:
However, Brown did some research, over if it was indeed possible for
someone to obtain his data. So he simply entered his own observing
code in Google and did a search.
According to an email list posting from one of the principals,
(paraphrasing like mad), what happened was that the head of
the Minor Planets Center was called by Brown shortly after
the 2003 EL61 announcement, and Brown said "By the way, we
have another...", and the head of the MPC then said "Yes, I
know, here's the orbit... and how I figured it out."
Which was, googling the object's known code name which
appeared in preprints.
There was no confirmed hacking. Brown didn't realize the risk of
that until it was shown to him by the MPC head, but then decided
to check, and then shortly thereafter announced the two other
objects.
-george william herbert
gherbert@retro.com
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
02 Aug 2005 10:47:30 PM |
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On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 03:07:56 -0000, (George William
Herbert) wrote:
According to an email list posting from one of the principals,
(paraphrasing like mad), what happened was that the head of
the Minor Planets Center was called by Brown shortly after
the 2003 EL61 announcement, and Brown said "By the way, we
have another...", and the head of the MPC then said "Yes, I
know, here's the orbit... and how I figured it out."
Which was, googling the object's known code name which
appeared in preprints.
There was no confirmed hacking. Brown didn't realize the risk of
that until it was shown to him by the MPC head, but then decided
to check, and then shortly thereafter announced the two other
objects.
Yes, that is nearly right. The only problem is that Brian Marsden of
the MPC did not tell him own KBO's orbits, but simply went away to see
if any other person has been using his data.
You can read Mike Brown's personal account here on his web page...
http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/index.html
That should remove any of us third party trying to incorrectly piece
it together. :-]
What I also find interesting is the method that he uses to find these
TNOs. As he just has a telescope that takes 3 automatic photos of each
patch of sky over about 2 hours each.
This data is then passed automatically to a computer to process, where
the computer looks for objects that move. In most cases this is simply
a glitch of the camera, but in like this case a real KBO is found.
He mentioned that it takes about 5 years to cover every part of the
sky that he can see from his location. So following this automatic
recording and sorting process, they then have to sort out the good and
bad finds.
Ah, the easy life of the armchair astronomer. ;-]
What is also interesting in this case is that this object was first
recorded back in 2003. During this time the computer missed spotting
this object, because it was so far out at 97AU and moved so slowly.
Only when the computer software was improved to look for slower moving
objects, and this old data was reprocessed, was this KBO larger than
Pluto discovered back in January this year.
Cardman.
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| User: "Neil Gerace" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
02 Aug 2005 11:08:11 PM |
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"Cardman" <do-not@spam-me.com> wrote in message
news:54e0f1tk7h5jsa1spujf2es0np8fc97nfs@4ax.com...
You can read Mike Brown's personal account here on his web page...
http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/index.html
"It's true that the information was available without breaking into any
sites. It's also true that sometimes I don't lock the door to my house. I
hope that people don't think it's therefore OK to come in and take my
stuff."
I don't think this is a good analogy. Publishing stuff on an open website is
like saying "here is my data, come and look at it". A house makes the stuff
inside private at all times.
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| User: "Cardman" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
02 Aug 2005 11:43:02 PM |
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On Wed, 3 Aug 2005 12:08:11 +0800, "Neil Gerace"
<geracen@iinet.net.au> wrote:
"Cardman" <do-not@spam-me.com> wrote in message
news:54e0f1tk7h5jsa1spujf2es0np8fc97nfs@4ax.com...
You can read Mike Brown's personal account here on his web page...
http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/planetlila/index.html
"It's true that the information was available without breaking into any
sites. It's also true that sometimes I don't lock the door to my house. I
hope that people don't think it's therefore OK to come in and take my
stuff."
I don't think this is a good analogy. Publishing stuff on an open website is
like saying "here is my data, come and look at it". A house makes the stuff
inside private at all times.
True enough.
What Mike Brown was doing was to make public some information, in
order to "wet the appetite of other scientists", but to withhold the
details of their location.
He simply overlooked that the public information that he gave out
could directly lead to people finding out the location information
that he wanted to withhold.
So he certainly cannot blame people now wanting to look more closely
at the KBOs that he has been advertising. I am sure that some of them
were aware of what these codes were that he was giving out, where they
could easily use these codes to look up the KBO's location in the
telescope logs.
However, anyone wishing to claim these finds as their own, by making
use of his initial data, is clearly wrong. Some other astronomer did
certainly take a look at his KBO's, but what happened following is
somewhat unclear.
Cardman.
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
03 Aug 2005 05:27:55 AM |
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"whet the appetite"
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
03 Aug 2005 05:25:51 AM |
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these data
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| User: "Alain Fournier" |
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| Title: Re: Good-news, bad-news; 10th planet, protomoon or dead Earth |
02 Aug 2005 09:21:20 AM |
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Cardman wrote:
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