| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Nick" |
| Date: |
11 Mar 2005 01:00:18 AM |
| Object: |
GR > Following a Curve |
According to Einstein objects follow the curves in space-time
geometry. Everything follows these curves.
But gravity does more than just create curved directions
in space time. It's more than just paths followed. It's
an increase of velocity in freefall.
Drop something and it imediately speeds up.
It's not following a curve so how does it accelerate?
Einstein has no mechanism for this besides saying that
the slowdown of time is geared to it.
It's without a proper explanation.
How does gravity - cause - acceleration
if it is just a curvature?
No cowards allowed.
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
11 Mar 2005 02:24:41 AM |
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"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110524418.246135.248950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Drop something and it imediately speeds up.
It's not following a curve so how does it accelerate?
A straight line is just a special form of curve.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
11 Mar 2005 02:31:38 AM |
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CWatters wrote:
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110524418.246135.248950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Drop something and it imediately speeds up.
It's not following a curve so how does it accelerate?
A straight line is just a special form of curve.
No curvature. No curve.
Why does it accelerate?
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
11 Mar 2005 10:34:30 AM |
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"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110529898.713646.78630@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
CWatters wrote:
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110524418.246135.248950@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
Drop something and it imediately speeds up.
It's not following a curve so how does it accelerate?
A straight line is just a special form of curve.
No curvature. No curve.
Why does it accelerate?
Why shouldn't it accelerate? I see a curve.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
11 Mar 2005 03:35:05 PM |
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Changing direction is not the acceleration I am speaking of.
Changing speed is.
No explanation for that.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
11 Mar 2005 04:45:20 PM |
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Nick wrote:
Changing direction is not the acceleration I am speaking of.
Changing speed is.
No explanation for that.
As explained in my previous article, yes there is. It's the curvature
of time.
You also see it clearly by writing out the geodesic equations:
d^x^i/ds^2 + Gamma^i_{00} (dt/ds)^2
+ 2 sum Gamma^i_{0j} dt/ds dx^j/ds
+ sum Gamma^i_{jk} dx^j/ds dx^j/ds = L dx^i/ds
d^2t/ds^2 + Gamma^0_{00} (dt/ds)^2
+ 2 sum Gamma^0_{0j} dt/ds dx^j/ds
+ sum Gamma^0_{jk} dx^j/ds dx^k/ds = L dt/ds
where L = L(s) depends on the parameter used.
Taking the parameter s = t, and defining the velocity v = dx/ds, one
finds
0 = d^2t/dt^2 = -Gamma^0_{00} + (terms linear & quadratic in v)
dv^i/ds = -Gamma^i_{00} + (terms linear & quadratic in v)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
There's your acceleration.
In terms of the metric, for weak gravity with g_{ij} = delta_{ij}
(delta the Kroenecker delta = 1 if i = j, 0 else), g_{i0} = 0, g_{00}
~~ -c^2, this yields:
-Gamma^i_{00} = 1/2 sum dg_{00}/dx^i
thus showing that
g_{00} = -c^2 + 2U
where U is the gravitational potential, itself.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
11 Mar 2005 05:27:10 PM |
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wrote:
Nick wrote:
Changing direction is not the acceleration I am speaking of.
Changing speed is.
No explanation for that.
As explained in my previous article, yes there is. It's the
curvature
of time.
That is Einstein's explanation. But it isn't really.
He said that as bodies move into slower time in order to
conserve their mass they must speed up - in freefall.
You think you have the answer.
I think not.
There is no explanation by the slowing of time - time curvature.
How does time speed things up?
You say time changes the speed. But by what mechanism?
Mitch -- Time Moves --
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| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
11 Mar 2005 05:46:16 PM |
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"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110583630.297650.200690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
That is Einstein's explanation. But it isn't really.
He said that as bodies move into slower time in order to
conserve their mass they must speed up - in freefall.
You think you have the answer.
I think not.
So show your own math that he doesn't have the answer. Come on, it's easy.
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| User: "Daryl McCullough" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
11 Mar 2005 05:47:55 PM |
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Nick says...
That is Einstein's explanation. But it isn't really.
He said that as bodies move into slower time in order to
conserve their mass they must speed up - in freefall.
Einstein didn't say anything vaguely like that.
--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
11 Mar 2005 06:42:30 PM |
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Scaling vector - killing vector - I think it was.
Tudeloo Daryl.
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| User: "Daryl McCullough" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
12 Mar 2005 12:39:50 AM |
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In article <1110588150.702917.55690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, Nick says...
Scaling vector - killing vector - I think it was.
Tudeloo Daryl.
Einstein didn't say anything vaguely like
He said that as bodies move into slower time in order to
conserve their mass they must speed up - in freefall.
--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
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| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
12 Mar 2005 12:04:34 PM |
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"Daryl McCullough" <stevendaryl3016@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d0u2rm0km7@drn.newsguy.com...
In article <1110588150.702917.55690@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, Nick
says...
Scaling vector - killing vector - I think it was.
Tudeloo Daryl.
Einstein didn't say anything vaguely like
He said that as bodies move into slower time in order to
conserve their mass they must speed up - in freefall.
Nickie doesn't care what people actually say, the little slimesucker makes
up whatever he needs to back up his anal retentive obsession of the word
infinite.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
12 Mar 2005 08:34:04 PM |
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According to Einstein objects follow the curves in space-time
geometry. Everything follows these curves.
But gravity does more than just create curved directions
in space time. It's more than just paths followed. It's
an increase of velocity in freefall.
Drop something and it imediately speeds up.
It's not following a curve so how does it accelerate?
Einstein has no mechanism for this besides saying that
the slowdown of time is geared to it.
It's without a proper explanation.
How does gravity - cause - acceleration
if it is just a curvature?
No cowards allowed.
.
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| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
12 Mar 2005 09:39:59 PM |
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"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110681244.569256.265760@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
No cowards allowed.
If you're not a coward, give us your home phone number and address so we can
come to you and debate you.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
12 Mar 2005 09:45:17 PM |
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Why? Not succeeding this way?
Mitch Raemsch -- Time Moves --
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| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
12 Mar 2005 11:36:47 PM |
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"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110685517.341238.177850@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Why? Not succeeding this way?
Mitch Raemsch -- Time Moves --
Not really.. I just wanted you to show everyone how cowardly you yourself
are. If you aren't a coward provide your home address and phone number so
we can set up a debate.
Or are you a coward?
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| User: "Daryl McCullough" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
12 Mar 2005 08:49:13 PM |
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Nick says...
According to Einstein objects follow the curves in space-time
geometry. Everything follows these curves.
But gravity does more than just create curved directions
in space time. It's more than just paths followed. It's
an increase of velocity in freefall.
An increase in velocity *is* following a particular path.
--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
12 Mar 2005 09:19:31 PM |
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Daryl McCullough wrote:
Nick says...
According to Einstein objects follow the curves in space-time
geometry. Everything follows these curves.
But gravity does more than just create curved directions
in space time. It's more than just paths followed. It's
an increase of velocity in freefall.
An increase in velocity *is* following a particular path.
--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
To be exact it's an increase in speed I am speaking of
not the velocity of a change in direction.
Einstein has explained a changing direction in gravity with
curved space-time geometry; but not a change in speed.
What causes the speedup in freefall?
He has not explained that.
Mitch Raemsch -- Light Falls --
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| User: "Daryl McCullough" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
13 Mar 2005 08:23:17 AM |
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Nick says...
Daryl McCullough wrote:
An increase in velocity *is* following a particular path.
To be exact it's an increase in speed I am speaking of
not the velocity of a change in direction.
A change in speed *is* following a particular path. A "path"
for a slower-than-light object is described by 4 functions
x(s)
y(s)
z(s)
t(s)
where s is proper time. The speed is a function of the path.
--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
13 Mar 2005 01:47:02 PM |
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Daryl McCullough wrote:
Nick says...
Daryl McCullough wrote:
An increase in velocity *is* following a particular path.
To be exact it's an increase in speed I am speaking of
not the velocity of a change in direction.
A change in speed *is* following a particular path. A "path"
for a slower-than-light object is described by 4 functions
x(s)
y(s)
z(s)
t(s)
where s is proper time. The speed is a function of the path.
--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
But it is not a curved path.
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| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
13 Mar 2005 03:04:14 PM |
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"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110743222.774177.180280@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Daryl McCullough wrote:
Nick says...
Daryl McCullough wrote:
An increase in velocity *is* following a particular path.
To be exact it's an increase in speed I am speaking of
not the velocity of a change in direction.
A change in speed *is* following a particular path. A "path"
for a slower-than-light object is described by 4 functions
x(s)
y(s)
z(s)
t(s)
where s is proper time. The speed is a function of the path.
--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
But it is not a curved path.
Of course it is. Look at x(s), y(s), z(s), and t(s) and tell me how you
don't see the curved path. Especially since the object is
slower-than-light. Make sure you also account for proper time (s).
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
13 Mar 2005 03:29:07 PM |
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What in gravity causes things to speed up?
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| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
13 Mar 2005 06:08:05 PM |
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"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110749347.511434.81340@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
What in gravity causes things to speed up?
Inertia?
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
13 Mar 2005 06:11:31 PM |
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How does inertia speed things up?
Mitch Raemsch -- Light Falls --
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| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
14 Mar 2005 12:02:25 AM |
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"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110759091.350050.267220@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
How does inertia speed things up?
Hey, it sounded as good as your guess.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
14 Mar 2005 12:08:08 AM |
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I haven't told you what I think it is.
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| User: "Morituri-|-Max" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
14 Mar 2005 04:28:10 AM |
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"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110780488.278160.313810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I haven't told you what I think it is.
And I haven't told you what I think it is either.
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
16 Mar 2005 01:40:03 AM |
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Morituri-|-Max wrote:
"Nick" <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1110780488.278160.313810@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
I haven't told you what I think it is.
And I haven't told you what I think it is either.
So what was your - inertia - comment?
A sitting duck?
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| User: "Daryl McCullough" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
14 Mar 2005 06:06:40 AM |
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Nick says...
Daryl McCullough wrote:
A change in speed *is* following a particular path. A "path"
for a slower-than-light object is described by 4 functions
x(s)
y(s)
z(s)
t(s)
where s is proper time. The speed is a function of the path.
But it is not a curved path.
Yes, it is. It is a curved *spacetime* path.
--
Daryl McCullough
Ithaca, NY
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| User: "Nick" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
14 Mar 2005 11:17:14 PM |
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A curved space time path doesn't explane why things
speed up in gravity; only why they change direction.
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: GR > Following a Curve |
15 Mar 2005 08:43:52 AM |
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In article <1110863834.821208.209110@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
Nick <macromitch@yahoo.com> wrote:
A curved space time path doesn't explane why things
speed up in gravity; only why they change direction.
Is that contrasted with a real explanation like a gravitational force?
--
"Is that plutonium on your gums?"
"Shut up and kiss me!"
-- Marge and Homer Simpson
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