Help with law verification : part II



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "rAgAv"
Date: 10 May 2007 08:20:19 PM
Object: Help with law verification : part II
Previously:-
Law--"Every physical, observable effect has a physical, observable
cause preceding it and the cause and effect are related by the laws
of
interaction of physics"
is this law correct? Is there any proof? Has this law been published?
Can somebody disprove this?
Regards
--
rAgAv
_______________________________________________
I have to admit that last time, the wording easly allowed chances for
misinterpretation, so this time let me make it very clear.
"Is the initiation of an independent chain of events possible?" i.e.
"Can a chain of events be unconnected to the events that occured in
the past?"
Here, i'm not questioning the way you relate two adjacent events in
space-time(like most of you assumed). I'm merely asking, "Is it
possible for an event to occur without the necessity for initiation
from the "already-occured events"? Can there be an instance where
event 'A' can either occur or not occur and still obey the fundemental
laws of the universe?
Is that allowed? If it is, then is it caused by our lack of knowledge
of the conditions required for the initiaion of A or just that the
event 'A' can act at its will?
Hope its clearer this time.
Thanks.
--
rAgAv
.

User: "Finhead"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 10 May 2007 10:14:19 PM
"rAgAv" <ragav.payne@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1178846419.273333.115100@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Previously:-

Law--"Every physical, observable effect has a physical, observable
cause preceding it and the cause and effect are related by the laws
of
interaction of physics"

is this law correct? Is there any proof? Has this law been published?
Can somebody disprove this?

easily disproved. Some things are unpredictable like a noise waveform, and
one cannot predict beforehand what the value is going to be.
.
User: "rAgAv"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 10 May 2007 10:35:42 PM
On May 11, 8:14 am, "Finhead" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:

"rAgAv" <ragav.pa...@googlemail.com> wrote in message

news:1178846419.273333.115100@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Previously:-


Law--"Every physical, observable effect has a physical, observable
cause preceding it and the cause and effect are related by the laws
of
interaction of physics"


is this law correct? Is there any proof? Has this law been published?
Can somebody disprove this?


easily disproved. Some things are unpredictable like a noise waveform, and
one cannot predict beforehand what the value is going to be.

I agree it disproves its *100% validity*. But again, consider this -
A - "Light is made of corpuscles"
B - "Light is entirely made of wave".
Though both of them have been disproved, But, they are still
applicable provided some conditions are met. i.e. A and B have to be
merged.
Similarly, here :-
A - "Events are purely causal"
B - "Events are purely acausal"
They both are disproved But, they are still applicable provided some
conditions are met.
We just have to figure out what these conditions are. For that, we
need to fundamentally discern causal events from acausal. So, what is
the fundamental difference between causal and acausal? Have *any*
idea?
.
User: "Finhead"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 11:58:05 AM
"rAgAv" <ragav.payne@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:1178854542.717573.71460@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...

On May 11, 8:14 am, "Finhead" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote:

"rAgAv" <ragav.pa...@googlemail.com> wrote in message

news:1178846419.273333.115100@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Previously:-


Law--"Every physical, observable effect has a physical, observable
cause preceding it and the cause and effect are related by the laws
of
interaction of physics"


is this law correct? Is there any proof? Has this law been published?
Can somebody disprove this?


easily disproved. Some things are unpredictable like a noise waveform,
and
one cannot predict beforehand what the value is going to be.


I agree it disproves its *100% validity*. But again, consider this -

A - "Light is made of corpuscles"

no Blood is. Unless it is Blood-lite.


B - "Light is entirely made of wave".

It is an EM wave for sure.


Though both of them have been disproved, But, they are still
applicable provided some conditions are met. i.e. A and B have to be
merged.

Similarly, here :-

A - "Events are purely causal"

B - "Events are purely acausal"

They both are disproved But, they are still applicable provided some
conditions are met.

We just have to figure out what these conditions are. For that, we
need to fundamentally discern causal events from acausal. So, what is
the fundamental difference between causal and acausal? Have *any*
idea?


.



User: "Androcles"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 02:18:56 AM
"rAgAv" <ragav.payne@googlemail.com> wrote in message =
news:1178846419.273333.115100@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

Previously:-
=20
Law--"Every physical, observable effect has a physical, observable
cause preceding it and the cause and effect are related by the laws
of
interaction of physics"
=20
is this law correct? Is there any proof? Has this law been published?
Can somebody disprove this?
=20
Regards
--
rAgAv
=20
_______________________________________________
=20
=20
=20
I have to admit that last time, the wording easly allowed chances for
misinterpretation, so this time let me make it very clear.
=20
=20
"Is the initiation of an independent chain of events possible?"

Even more ambiguous, "chain" implies causality and dependence.
Chain: pull one end and the other end moves. Not so if you push.
Focus in on one link in the "chain".
Name an event without a cause.
i.e.

"Can a chain of events be unconnected to the events that occured in
the past?"
=20
Here, i'm not questioning the way you relate two adjacent events in
space-time(like most of you assumed). I'm merely asking, "Is it
possible for an event to occur without the necessity for initiation
from the "already-occured events"? Can there be an instance where
event 'A' can either occur or not occur and still obey the fundemental
laws of the universe?
=20
Is that allowed? If it is, then is it caused by our lack of knowledge
of the conditions required for the initiaion of A or just that the
event 'A' can act at its will?
=20
=20
Hope its clearer this time.

You didn't succeed, you made it worse.=20
I don't know what you mean by space-time.=20
Is that anything like mass-space or time-mass?
.
User: "rAgAv"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 05:34:00 AM

Even more ambiguous, "chain" implies causality and dependence.
Chain: pull one end and the other end moves. Not so if you push.

Focus in on one link in the "chain".
Name an event without a cause.

I just tried that for 2hrs. I couldn't. I guess i just sprang up to a
premature conclusion. I think i confused "randomness" with
"acausailty". Probably, you were right all along.
May be the world is continuous after all.
If i ever come up with an example for an acausal event, it'll be
interesting.
Thanks Andro.
Bye.
--
rAgAv
.
User: "Androcles"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 08:44:24 AM
"rAgAv" <ragav.payne@googlemail.com> wrote in message =
news:1178879640.085067.265030@o5g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

=20

Even more ambiguous, "chain" implies causality and dependence.
Chain: pull one end and the other end moves. Not so if you push.

Focus in on one link in the "chain".
Name an event without a cause.

=20
I just tried that for 2hrs. I couldn't. I guess i just sprang up to a
premature conclusion. I think i confused "randomness" with
"acausailty". Probably, you were right all along.
May be the world is continuous after all.
=20
=20
If i ever come up with an example for an acausal event, it'll be
interesting.
=20
Thanks Andro.
Bye.
--
rAgAv

In the real world each event has multiple causes, so think of=20
many chains attached to an object, with some pushed (acausal)
and some pulled (causal). But each chain has a limited length.
When all the other chains pull against it, that chain then prevents
the object exceeding its range. It was acausal up to its limit.
For example:
In a certain family, two children are inseparable and the parents are =
not=20
especially wealthy but can afford a vacation. They have a used car and=20
the money could be used to buy a new one in part exchange or spent on
the vacation.
The parents will allow the children to choose a venue.
One child chooses Disneyland, the other chooses Disneyworld.
Only one of these can be visited during the vacation due to budgetary=20
considerations (the chain that has a limit). =20
It would be within budget to take separate vacations.
Mom has been to neither, Dad went to Disneyland when he was a child.
Last week there was an accident at Disneyworld and a child was injured.=20
Mom is slightly worried about the children being injured and has a =
prejudicial
misapprehension about Disneyworld due to the recent accident.
Dad claims not to mind, but is slightly prejudiced in favour of =
Disneyworld,=20
he's seen Disneyland. Also he'd like a new car. Dad flips a coin, Mom =
calls tails,=20
it comes down heads. Elder child says "Best of three, dad".
What actually tips the scales so that Disneyland is selected?
During the vacation one child contracts a disease from a passing =
stranger,=20
is hospitalized, contracts MRSA and later dies.
Dad says "If only I'd bought the car, my daughter would still be alive".
Mom says "If only we'd gone to Disneyworld, my daughter would still be =
alive".
The remaining child says "If only we had gone where *I* wanted to, my =
sister
would still be alive".
The dead child says nothing.=20
We all have 20-20 hindsight and no foresight, but that's the way the =
world is
and we don't really have good hindsight either. =20
Was it the flip of the coin that led to the child's death?=20
Who had control of the coin?
It doesn't matter, it's too late to change it and anyone could have =
flipped it.
And so we erect guard rails and impose speed limits and wear our seat =
belts
and campaign to raise money to develop new drugs to fight methicillin =
resistant=20
Staphylococcus aureus and take all the precautions we can to try to =
prevent disasters,=20
but ultimately they still happen.=20
.
User: "rAgAv"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 01:08:47 PM


In the real world each event has multiple causes, so think of
many chains attached to an object, with some pushed (acausal)
and some pulled (causal). But each chain has a limited length.
When all the other chains pull against it, that chain then prevents
the object exceeding its range. It was acausal up to its limit.

For example:
In a certain family, two children are inseparable and the parents are not
especially wealthy but can afford a vacation. They have a used car and
the money could be used to buy a new one in part exchange or spent on
the vacation.
The parents will allow the children to choose a venue.
One child chooses Disneyland, the other chooses Disneyworld.
Only one of these can be visited during the vacation due to budgetary
considerations (the chain that has a limit).
It would be within budget to take separate vacations.
Mom has been to neither, Dad went to Disneyland when he was a child.
Last week there was an accident at Disneyworld and a child was injured.

Mom is slightly worried about the children being injured and has a prejudicial
misapprehension about Disneyworld due to the recent accident.
Dad claims not to mind, but is slightly prejudiced in favour of Disneyworld,
he's seen Disneyland. Also he'd like a new car. Dad flips a coin, Mom calls tails,
it comes down heads. Elder child says "Best of three, dad".
What actually tips the scales so that Disneyland is selected?

During the vacation one child contracts a disease from a passing stranger,
is hospitalized, contracts MRSA and later dies.

Dad says "If only I'd bought the car, my daughter would still be alive".
Mom says "If only we'd gone to Disneyworld, my daughter would still be alive".
The remaining child says "If only we had gone where *I* wanted to, my sister
would still be alive".
The dead child says nothing.

It doesn't matter, it's too late to change it and anyone could have flipped it.

And so we erect guard rails and impose speed limits and wear our seat belts
and campaign to raise money to develop new drugs to fight methicillin resistant
Staphylococcus aureus and take all the precautions we can to try to prevent disasters,
but ultimately they still happen.

Your example seems fine. But, i don't see how it proves your point
that "real world events have multiple causes".
I think it like this:-
A- light waves
B-Apple pie
C- single slit
A-C(interaction) =diffraction
B-C = definetly not diffraction
As A and B are distinct, they both react distinctly to the same
material B.
Here its like this:-
M = Mom
D = Dad
K = The living kid
U = universe (i.e. everything that M, D and K experience)
As M, D and K are distinct, their interactions with U will also be
distinct.
M-U
M-D
M-K
[These are merely how M, D and K percieve the world.]
As our subjects are humans, so they have this emotional
parameter( lets call it e-factor) embedded in their characteristics.
e-factor of each individual lets them choose what to notice and what
to ignore. For instcance, k notices the fun part while ignoring the
health concerns and M notices the health part while not giving much
thought to the fun part. So, ultimately, nobody knows everything.
As the interactions ( M-U,M-D and M-K) are distinct, it lets M, D and
K come up with distinct theories of explanation for the same real
world event( the death of the other child).[Like the lightwaves and
apple pie case]
This doesn't necessitate that there were multiple distint causes fot
that event. It simply means that there was( may be) only one cause (or
one chain of events that acted as a cause); information of which is
actually encrypted in U not in(M-U, M-D or M-K). If there was an M-T
where T's e-factor would help notice that one cause while T interacts
with U, then T's interpretation would be correct and M, D and K would
agree with T.

We all have 20-20 hindsight and no foresight, but that's the way the world is
and we don't really have good hindsight either.

Was it the flip of the coin that led to the child's death?
Who had control of the coin?

the coin was controlled by M, D and K's lack of decisiveness and
gravity. Kid's death was caused by the passing stranger.
If anyone(M, D or K) had prior information on that infected stranger,
they'd have had fore-sight.(though it's only possible idealy)
But the world isn't ideal. That's why it is the way it is. That's why
we don't have prior information on anything and that's what leads to
superstition, luck and god etc.,
Imagine if M D and K could have quantitative information on what they
needed. i.e. the quantitative values of emotional pleasure that they
needed out of the vacation and the emotional pleasure that they would
derive out of either disneyland or disneyworld.
They would just put it in equations and then go for the one that gives
a bigger no.( either Dis.wor or Dis.lan.). They wouldn't have gone for
the coin.
.
User: "Androcles"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 02:42:57 PM
"rAgAv" <ragav.payne@googlemail.com> wrote in message =
news:1178906927.692013.259660@p77g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

=20


In the real world each event has multiple causes, so think of
many chains attached to an object, with some pushed (acausal)
and some pulled (causal). But each chain has a limited length.
When all the other chains pull against it, that chain then prevents
the object exceeding its range. It was acausal up to its limit.

For example:
In a certain family, two children are inseparable and the parents are =

not

especially wealthy but can afford a vacation. They have a used car =

and

the money could be used to buy a new one in part exchange or spent on
the vacation.
The parents will allow the children to choose a venue.
One child chooses Disneyland, the other chooses Disneyworld.
Only one of these can be visited during the vacation due to budgetary
considerations (the chain that has a limit). =20
It would be within budget to take separate vacations.
Mom has been to neither, Dad went to Disneyland when he was a child.
Last week there was an accident at Disneyworld and a child was =

injured.


Mom is slightly worried about the children being injured and has a =

prejudicial

misapprehension about Disneyworld due to the recent accident.
Dad claims not to mind, but is slightly prejudiced in favour of =

Disneyworld,

he's seen Disneyland. Also he'd like a new car. Dad flips a coin, Mom =

calls tails,

it comes down heads. Elder child says "Best of three, dad".
What actually tips the scales so that Disneyland is selected?

During the vacation one child contracts a disease from a passing =

stranger,

is hospitalized, contracts MRSA and later dies.

Dad says "If only I'd bought the car, my daughter would still be =

alive".

Mom says "If only we'd gone to Disneyworld, my daughter would still =

be alive".

The remaining child says "If only we had gone where *I* wanted to, my =

sister

would still be alive".
The dead child says nothing.

It doesn't matter, it's too late to change it and anyone could have =

flipped it.


And so we erect guard rails and impose speed limits and wear our seat =

belts

and campaign to raise money to develop new drugs to fight methicillin =

resistant

Staphylococcus aureus and take all the precautions we can to try to =

prevent disasters,

but ultimately they still happen.

=20
=20
Your example seems fine. But, i don't see how it proves your point
that "real world events have multiple causes".

Cause 1:
Dad got time off work.
Cause 2:
The car didn't break down on the way to the airport, causing =
postponement.
Cause 3:=20
The coin came down heads.
Cause 4:
The kid bumped into a stranger.
Cause 5 to cause 1,002,339 ... I'm not going to list them all.

=20
I think it like this:-
=20
A- light waves

No it doesn't.=20
Roads wave, cars have frequency
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AC/AC.htm
Cars bounce off bridge abutments... make the span wider.
Photons bounce off diffraction gratings.=20

B-Apple pie
C- single slit
=20
A-C(interaction) =3Ddiffraction
B-C =3D definetly not diffraction
=20
As A and B are distinct, they both react distinctly to the same
material B.
=20
=20
Here its like this:-
=20
M =3D Mom
D =3D Dad
K =3D The living kid
U =3D universe (i.e. everything that M, D and K experience)
=20
As M, D and K are distinct, their interactions with U will also be
distinct.
M-U
M-D
M-K
[These are merely how M, D and K percieve the world.]
=20
As our subjects are humans, so they have this emotional
parameter( lets call it e-factor) embedded in their characteristics.
=20
e-factor of each individual lets them choose what to notice and what
to ignore. For instcance, k notices the fun part while ignoring the
health concerns and M notices the health part while not giving much
thought to the fun part. So, ultimately, nobody knows everything.
=20
As the interactions ( M-U,M-D and M-K) are distinct, it lets M, D and
K come up with distinct theories of explanation for the same real
world event( the death of the other child).[Like the lightwaves and
apple pie case]
=20
=20
This doesn't necessitate that there were multiple distint causes fot
that event. It simply means that there was( may be) only one cause (or
one chain of events that acted as a cause); information of which is
actually encrypted in U not in(M-U, M-D or M-K). If there was an M-T
where T's e-factor would help notice that one cause while T interacts
with U, then T's interpretation would be correct and M, D and K would
agree with T.
=20
=20

We all have 20-20 hindsight and no foresight, but that's the way the =

world is

and we don't really have good hindsight either. =20

Was it the flip of the coin that led to the child's death?
Who had control of the coin?

=20
the coin was controlled by M, D and K's lack of decisiveness and
gravity. Kid's death was caused by the passing stranger.
=20
=20
If anyone(M, D or K) had prior information on that infected stranger,
they'd have had fore-sight.(though it's only possible idealy)
=20
But the world isn't ideal. That's why it is the way it is. That's why
we don't have prior information on anything and that's what leads to
superstition, luck and god etc.,
=20
Imagine if M D and K could have quantitative information on what they
needed. i.e. the quantitative values of emotional pleasure that they
needed out of the vacation and the emotional pleasure that they would
derive out of either disneyland or disneyworld.
=20
They would just put it in equations and then go for the one that gives
a bigger no.( either Dis.wor or Dis.lan.). They wouldn't have gone for
the coin.
=20
=20
=20

.





User: "PD"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 11:37:30 AM
On May 10, 8:20 pm, rAgAv <ragav.pa...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Previously:-

Law--"Every physical, observable effect has a physical, observable
cause preceding it and the cause and effect are related by the laws
of
interaction of physics"

is this law correct? Is there any proof? Has this law been published?
Can somebody disprove this?

Regards
--
rAgAv

_______________________________________________

I have to admit that last time, the wording easly allowed chances for
misinterpretation, so this time let me make it very clear.

"Is the initiation of an independent chain of events possible?" i.e.
"Can a chain of events be unconnected to the events that occured in
the past?"

Here, i'm not questioning the way you relate two adjacent events in
space-time(like most of you assumed). I'm merely asking, "Is it
possible for an event to occur without the necessity for initiation
from the "already-occured events"? Can there be an instance where
event 'A' can either occur or not occur and still obey the fundemental
laws of the universe?

Is that allowed? If it is, then is it caused by our lack of knowledge
of the conditions required for the initiaion of A or just that the
event 'A' can act at its will?

Hope its clearer this time.

Thanks.
--
rAgAv

The answer is the same as what it was in response to your original
post.
Yes, something can happen without a direct, attributable cause.
Yes, two identical initial states subject to identical physical laws
can produce two (or more) different final states.
Both of these are both noticed in quantum mechanics and in
experimental behavior.
Strict causal determinism was such a rigidly held preconception in the
19th century that it was inconceivable to many that it could be wrong.
It is, however, wrong.
PD
.
User: "rAgAv"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 12:30:13 PM

Yes, two identical initial states subject to identical physical laws
can produce two (or more) different final states.

Yes, this is exactly what i confused acausal events with. Though it is
true that the possible final states differwith each other, these final
states do not occur until the initial conditions are met. So, if
making the initial conditions is the prerequisite, then *that* is the
cause isn't it?

Both of these are both noticed in quantum mechanics and in
experimental behavior.

even outside it. A simple one:-
intitial condition:-
X = (4)^1/2
Interactions:-
application of the conventional math laws
Final conditions:-
a) X= +2
b) X= -2
Thanks.
--
rAgAv
.
User: "PD"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 12:56:09 PM
On May 11, 12:30 pm, rAgAv <ragav.pa...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Yes, two identical initial states subject to identical physical laws
can produce two (or more) different final states.


Yes, this is exactly what i confused acausal events with. Though it is
true that the possible final states differwith each other, these final
states do not occur until the initial conditions are met. So, if
making the initial conditions is the prerequisite, then *that* is the
cause isn't it?

No, you didn't understand me. There IS no difference in the initial
conditions that produce the two different final states. None
whatsoever.
If you ask, "But how is that even possible?" then you are exhibiting
your prejudice that strict causal determinism can't be dispensed with.
Quantum mechanical behavior, as *really exhibited* in nature, says
that it is possible, period.


Both of these are both noticed in quantum mechanics and in
experimental behavior.


even outside it. A simple one:-

intitial condition:-

X = (4)^1/2

Interactions:-

application of the conventional math laws

Math laws are not laws of nature, they are shorthand for how our brain
works. This isn't the same thing at all.


Final conditions:-

a) X= +2
b) X= -2

Thanks.
--
rAgAv

.
User: "rAgAv"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 01:37:01 PM
On May 11, 10:56 pm, PD <TheDraperFam...@gmail.com> wrote:

On May 11, 12:30 pm, rAgAv <ragav.pa...@googlemail.com> wrote:

Yes, two identical initial states subject to identical physical laws
can produce two (or more) different final states.


Yes, this is exactly what i confused acausal events with. Though it is
true that the possible final states differwith each other, these final
states do not occur until the initial conditions are met. So, if
making the initial conditions is the prerequisite, then *that* is the
cause isn't it?


No, you didn't understand me. There IS no difference in the initial
conditions that produce the two different final states. None
whatsoever.

I think there's some confusion here because that's exactly what i'm
saying too!
same intial conditions--> different final conditions.

If you ask, "But how is that even possible?" then you are exhibiting
your prejudice that strict causal determinism can't be dispensed with.
Quantum mechanical behavior, as *really exhibited* in nature, says
that it is possible, period.

Both of these are both noticed in quantum mechanics and in
experimental behavior.

Point taken.
--
rAgAv
.




User: "Sam Wormley"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 10 May 2007 11:25:11 PM
rAgAv wrote:


"Is the initiation of an independent chain of events possible?" i.e.
"Can a chain of events be unconnected to the events that occured in
the past?"

Here, i'm not questioning the way you relate two adjacent events in
space-time(like most of you assumed). I'm merely asking, "Is it
possible for an event to occur without the necessity for initiation
from the "already-occured events"? Can there be an instance where
event 'A' can either occur or not occur and still obey the fundemental
laws of the universe?

Is that allowed? If it is, then is it caused by our lack of knowledge
of the conditions required for the initiaion of A or just that the
event 'A' can act at its will?

Background Causality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality
Quantum mechanics is a branch of physics in which the nature of causality
is somewhat unclear.
.
User: "rAgAv"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 12:50:09 AM

Background Causality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality

Quantum mechanics is a branch of physics in which the nature of causality
is somewhat unclear.

We all agree on that.
.
User: "Androcles"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 02:18:56 AM
"rAgAv" <ragav.payne@googlemail.com> wrote in message =
news:1178862609.447277.280750@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

=20

Background Causality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causality

Quantum mechanics is a branch of physics in which the nature of =

causality

is somewhat unclear.

=20
We all agree on that.

No we don't.
.



User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 10:04:44 AM
rAgAv wrote:


Previously:-

Law--"Every physical, observable effect has a physical, observable
cause preceding it and the cause and effect are related by the laws
of
interaction of physics"

is this law correct? Is there any proof? Has this law been published?
Can somebody disprove this?

Regards
--
rAgAv

_______________________________________________

I have to admit that last time, the wording easly allowed chances for
misinterpretation, so this time let me make it very clear.

"Is the initiation of an independent chain of events possible?" i.e.
"Can a chain of events be unconnected to the events that occured in
the past?"

Here, i'm not questioning the way you relate two adjacent events in
space-time(like most of you assumed). I'm merely asking, "Is it
possible for an event to occur without the necessity for initiation
from the "already-occured events"? Can there be an instance where
event 'A' can either occur or not occur and still obey the fundemental
laws of the universe?

Is that allowed? If it is, then is it caused by our lack of knowledge
of the conditions required for the initiaion of A or just that the
event 'A' can act at its will?

Hope its clearer this time.

Quantum erasers and double quantum erasers. The result - classical or
non-classical behavior at the slit - always *preceeds* the cause -
information retention or loss after the slit.
How may times will you post this crap, you Christ-besotted idiot?
Push water out through a rotary lawn sprinkler and its head spins.
Push water into a rotary lawn sprinkler and nothing spins. Push water
orthogonally into the center of a motion picture film can and
tangentially out the edge and it flows nice as you please. Push water
tangentailly into the film can and out the center and... no flow.
It's a liquid diode.
Your bloodthirsty ignorant Yahweh couldn't get pi correct past its
first significant digit, got the number of planets wrong, omitted
ferrous metallurgy, transistors, Fortran... Novocain, penicillin, and
Viagra. You don't have a "fundamental law," you have a desperate plea
to validate your religious hallucinations continually falsified by
"tests of faith." Here's a fundamental law for you: Your God is
*****.
Prigogine's non-equilibrium thermodynamics. A complex energetic
system far from equilibrium will spontaneously order, e.g., the
Belosouv-Zhabotinsky reaction and chemical oscillators in general.
Take a wet planet, add a star for energy input, wait. There will
evolve life that eventually demands a God for its creation lest it
admit is is only overwrought pond scum.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
.
User: "Androcles"

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 11 May 2007 11:11:30 AM
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message =
news:4644860C.3CD92B7E@hate.spam.net...
[snip wet fart]
Idiot. Fuckhead. Moron. Dolt. Arsehole. Jerkoff.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/GPS/GPS.htm
.

User: "Autymn D. C."

Title: Re: Help with law verification : part II 18 May 2007 11:30:01 PM
On May 11, 8:04 am, Uncle Al <Uncle...@hate.spam.net> wrote:

rAgAv wrote:

"Is the initiation of an independent chain of events possible?" i.e.
"Can a chain of events be unconnected to the events that occured in
the past?"


Is that allowed? If it is, then is it caused by our lack of knowledge
of the conditions required for the initiaion of A or just that the
event 'A' can act at its will?

Quantum erasers and double quantum erasers. The result - classical or
non-classical behavior at the slit - always *preceeds* the cause -
information retention or loss after the slit.

Aclassic behavred was never the problem; fot=F2ns were never motes, but
are divisions of waves with momenta and gradients. That a fot=F2n takes
both slits is no more aclassic than if a finger taps two keys. You
sound like William with his FTL transmission commutor-wreck. The
three-body sustem comes first, then the two-body collision.
http://google.com/groups?q=3DAutymn+electron+size+big
El=E8ctr=F2ns are always motes. Fot=F2ns are always waves. What you see
elsewise is the deed of the other.

How may times will you post this crap, you Christ-besotted idiot?
Push water out through a rotary lawn sprinkler and its head spins.
Push water into a rotary lawn sprinkler and nothing spins. Push water
orthogonally into the center of a motion picture film can and
tangentially out the edge and it flows nice as you please. Push water
tangentailly into the film can and out the center and... no flow.
It's a liquid diode.

I don't believe that. If there's unlike pressure at either end of the
whole path, that is the same but athwart forewards and backwards, then
backwards the sprinkler will easily suck in the watter and spin
backwards to conserv momentum. The inpushing of watter is brokene
inside the hose, as you let im sit there. Loschmidt was smarter than
you, *****.

Your bloodthirsty ignorant Yahweh couldn't get pi correct past its
first significant digit, got the number of planets wrong, omitted
ferrous metallurgy, transistors, Fortran... Novocain, penicillin, and
Viagra. You don't have a "fundamental law," you have a desperate plea
to validate your religious hallucinations continually falsified by
"tests of faith." Here's a fundamental law for you: Your God is
*****.

Put marks that don't belong in quotes outside the quotes. The folks
in the book of Isaiah (Jishqhjah) meted the breadth of a goblet, not a
plate or a threshing floor (halo). And pi on a hexag=F2n is 3. None of
the Tanac countd the planets; all they countd were the stars, which
were clusters, constellations, and galaxies. They mistook Venus for
Lucifer, but that's about all.
There are over 80 mentions of iron in the Tanac; the Canqhanites had
the bulk of ironworks. If you wantd iron, you go to Baqhl. If you
wantd milk, honey, incense, abjads, and cultur, you go to Baqhl.

Prigogine's non-equilibrium thermodynamics. A complex energetic
system far from equilibrium will spontaneously order, e.g., the
Belosouv-Zhabotinsky reaction and chemical oscillators in general.
Take a wet planet, add a star for energy input, wait. There will
evolve life that eventually demands a God for its creation lest it
admit is is only overwrought pond scum.

There is no equilibrium.
http://google.com/groups?q=3DAutymn+permanent+OR+perpetual
-Aut
.



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