| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Mike" |
| Date: |
18 Feb 2005 08:47:10 PM |
| Object: |
Here goes the "expert" Dinkey-Donkey |
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/messages/36527bfaf2d4617c,5d79e4b1287571cf,951df98a6c3b2c9a,319292335722669a,292ecf1cee15996a,198d780a320b35f0,ec0f1454b8a23e7a,40bcf24dad1ff837,57c4f2e75ec0c484,6c6cbaed28002322?thread_id=2e2aed9755dd6a0f&mode=thread&noheader=1#doc_57c4f2e75ec0c484
Mike wrote:
A vector space is an abstract construct not related to
spacetime because it does not have the required
properties and restrictions.
Dirk wrote:
But it *is* related to spacetime *if* the latter is treated as
flat Mink spacetime, and that is precisely the issue here.
Mike
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| User: "Dirk Van de moortel" |
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| Title: Re: Here goes the "expert" Dinkey-Donkey |
19 Feb 2005 07:21:01 AM |
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"Mike" <eleatis@yahoo.gr> wrote in message news:1108781230.623269.231520@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/messages/36527bfaf2d4617c,5d79e4b1287571cf,951df98a6c3b2c9a,319292335722669a,292ecf1cee15996a,198d780a320b35f0,ec0f1454b8a23e7a,40bcf24dad1ff837,57c4f2e75ec0c484,6c6cbaed28002322?thread_id=2e2aed9755dd6a0f&mode=thread&noheader=1#doc_57c4f2e75ec0c484
Mike wrote:
A vector space is an abstract construct not related to
spacetime because it does not have the required
properties and restrictions.
Dirk wrote:
But it *is* related to spacetime *if* the latter is treated as
flat Mink spacetime, and that is precisely the issue here.
Mike
Thanks!
http://users.pandora.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/HiPsycho.html
Dirk Vdm
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: Here goes the "expert" Dinkey-Donkey |
18 Feb 2005 11:22:34 PM |
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http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/messages/36527bfaf2d4617c,5d79e4b1287571cf,951df98a6c3b2c9a,319292335722669a,292ecf1cee15996a,198d780a320b35f0,ec0f1454b8a23e7a,40bcf24dad1ff837,57c4f2e75ec0c484,6c6cbaed28002322?thread_id=2e2aed9755dd6a0f&mode=thread&noheader=1#doc_57c4f2e75ec0c484
Mike wrote:
A vector space is an abstract construct not related to
spacetime because it does not have the required
properties and restrictions.
True. And yet, the conceptualization of a vector space is neccesarily
embedded within spacetime because it is a product of the human brain.
Interestingly, it can be used to model spacetime, and a complete model would
generate brains and further comceptualizations, etc etc..
Kind if reminds me of the painter who is in the painting, which is in the
painting, which is in the painting, which is in the painting, which is in
the painting, etc.
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| User: "Bill Hobba" |
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| Title: Re: Here goes the "expert" Dinkey-Donkey |
22 Feb 2005 06:41:47 PM |
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"Lefty" <Ye@h.Right> wrote in message
news:uLOdndjItvFrLIvfRVn-qw@comcast.com...
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.relativity/messages/36527bfaf2d4617c,5d79e4b1287571cf,951df98a6c3b2c9a,319292335722669a,292ecf1cee15996a,198d780a320b35f0,ec0f1454b8a23e7a,40bcf24dad1ff837,57c4f2e75ec0c484,6c6cbaed28002322?thread_id=2e2aed9755dd6a0f&mode=thread&noheader=1#doc_57c4f2e75ec0c484
Mike wrote:
A vector space is an abstract construct not related to
spacetime because it does not have the required
properties and restrictions.
True. And yet, the conceptualization of a vector space is neccesarily
embedded within spacetime because it is a product of the human brain.
That is not why the concept of a vector space is imbedded in the concept of
space-time. It is a by product of it being a manifold and having a
meaningful definition of vector addition and scalar multiplication. That is
the key. If it is not physically meaningful to define such then we do not
have a vector space.
Interestingly, it can be used to model spacetime, and a complete model
would
generate brains and further comceptualizations, etc etc..
Space-time forms a manifold. The elements of that manifold can be shown to
be isomorphic to a vector space (in some cases) but the physical relevance
of that isomorphism is a debatable question.
Kind if reminds me of the painter who is in the painting, which is in the
painting, which is in the painting, which is in the painting, which is in
the painting, etc.
Kind of reminds me of people that do not like to think issues through.
Bill
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| User: "Lefty" |
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| Title: Re: Here goes the "expert" Dinkey-Donkey |
23 Feb 2005 12:49:56 AM |
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Mike wrote:
A vector space is an abstract construct not related to
spacetime because it does not have the required
properties and restrictions.
True. And yet, the conceptualization of a vector space is neccesarily
embedded within spacetime because it is a product of the human brain.
That is not why the concept of a vector space is imbedded in the concept
of
space-time. It is a by product of it being a manifold and having a
meaningful definition of vector addition and scalar multiplication. That
is
the key. If it is not physically meaningful to define such then we do not
have a vector space.
I guess this gets to teh question of whether mathematics is part of nature,
or just another of man's inventions.
In the latter sense, math would not exist were it not for the existence of a
brain to contain it.
Kind if reminds me of the painter who is in the painting, which is in
the
painting, which is in the painting, which is in the painting, which is
in
the painting, etc.
Kind of reminds me of people that do not like to think issues through.
Still reminds me of the painter. I dont know where that other guy came from
who you refer to -
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| User: "Ken S. Tucker" |
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| Title: Re: Here goes the "expert" Dinkey-Donkey |
22 Feb 2005 07:26:08 PM |
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Mike wrote:
Mike wrote:
A vector space is an abstract construct not related to
spacetime because it does not have the required
properties and restrictions.
I'm inclined to agree with Mike, in fact highly.
That's neat stuff, take an arbituary vector "A"
floating about. When does it become real?
For fun, let's use Bill Gates basis vectors,
e0> = time, e1> = money, then that vector "A"
relative to the Gates CS is,
(dot products follow),
A>.e0> = A0 and A>.e1> = A1,
where A0 is time and A1 is money.
Ken
Dirk wrote:
[snip junky]
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