| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Prisoner at War" |
| Date: |
18 May 2007 07:04:09 AM |
| Object: |
Hot Ice Planet??? |
Help me understand this: it's water, but also frozen by high pressure
-- and thus hot???
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/05/16/odd.exoplanet.reut/index.html
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Hot Ice Planet??? |
18 May 2007 07:22:50 AM |
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"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179489849.503466.150520@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Help me understand this: it's water, but also frozen by high pressure
-- and thus hot???
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/05/16/odd.exoplanet.reut/index.html
Well, "hot" is relative... Presumably the investigators
estimated the planet's temperature by taking into
consideration things like proximity to its sun, the sun's
luminosity, the planet's albedo, probable atmosphere, its
mass and likely composition (radionuclids), etc.
Under enough pressure water can remain solid at remarkably
high temperatures. Have a look at the phase diagram at
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/phase.html
At a proposed temperature of 520K, the water must be in
the form of ice VII, X, or XI. I doubt that the pressure
could be high enough for X or XI.
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| User: "George Dishman" |
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| Title: Re: Hot Ice Planet??? |
18 May 2007 07:31:04 AM |
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"Prisoner at War" <prisoner_at_war@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1179489849.503466.150520@q23g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Help me understand this: it's water, but also frozen by high pressure
-- and thus hot???
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/05/16/odd.exoplanet.reut/index.html
http://www.cmmp.ucl.ac.uk/people/finney/soi.html
Note that, for ice VII, as the pressure increases, so does
the melting point.
George
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| User: "tj Frazir" |
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| Title: Re: Hot Ice Planet??? |
18 May 2007 01:18:41 PM |
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Solid water is not ice.
Water is just 2 atoms pushed together .
At 2000 psi water wount freeze at minus 10 deg. Ice wount thaw but
wornt form.
But then 1 million psi is not ice and not water .
Its solid water .
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| User: "Rich" |
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| Title: Re: Hot Ice Planet??? |
18 May 2007 01:50:30 PM |
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tj Frazir wrote:
Solid water is not ice.
Water is just 2 atoms pushed together.
Odd, I count 3.
What have I got wrong?
Cheers
Rich
At 2000 psi water wount freeze at minus 10 deg. Ice wount thaw but
wornt form.
But then 1 million psi is not ice and not water .
Its solid water .
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| User: "Igor" |
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| Title: Re: Hot Ice Planet??? |
18 May 2007 11:17:34 AM |
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On May 18, 8:04 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Help me understand this: it's water, but also frozen by high pressure
-- and thus hot???
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/05/16/odd.exoplanet.reut/index.html
Practically any material can be solid at any temperature, provided
sufficient pressure is applied.
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| User: "Russell Easterly" |
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| Title: Re: Hot Ice Planet??? |
19 May 2007 11:30:30 PM |
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"Igor" <thoovler@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1179505054.487484.236600@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 18, 8:04 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Help me understand this: it's water, but also frozen by high pressure
-- and thus hot???
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/05/16/odd.exoplanet.reut/index.html
Practically any material can be solid at any temperature, provided
sufficient pressure is applied.
I didn't think helium could be frozen, but I was wrong.
Frozen helium is a supersolid, a solid that flows like a liquid.
http://www.planet-think.net/science/science_news/articles/solid_helium.html
This means "gas" giants are mostly solid.
Russell
- 2 many 2 count
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| User: "Peter Webb" |
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| Title: Re: Hot Ice Planet??? |
20 May 2007 11:33:58 AM |
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"Russell Easterly" <logiclab@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:H6OdnVi-w9JuU9LbnZ2dnUVZ_u-unZ2d@comcast.com...
"Igor" <thoovler@excite.com> wrote in message
news:1179505054.487484.236600@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
On May 18, 8:04 am, Prisoner at War <prisoner_at_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Help me understand this: it's water, but also frozen by high pressure
-- and thus hot???
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/05/16/odd.exoplanet.reut/index.html
Practically any material can be solid at any temperature, provided
sufficient pressure is applied.
I didn't think helium could be frozen, but I was wrong.
Frozen helium is a supersolid, a solid that flows like a liquid.
http://www.planet-think.net/science/science_news/articles/solid_helium.html
At 175 millikelvins
This means "gas" giants are mostly solid.
Where did this idea come from?
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| User: "Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Hot Ice Planet??? |
20 May 2007 10:47:22 AM |
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On Sat, 19 May 2007 21:30:30 -0700, "Russell Easterly"
<logiclab@comcast.net> wrote:
I didn't think helium could be frozen, but I was wrong.
It can't be frozen at "ordinary pressure" (1 atmosphere), but can with
high pressure.
Frozen helium is a supersolid, a solid that flows like a liquid.
http://www.planet-think.net/science/science_news/articles/solid_helium.html
That intriguing idea is probably incorrect. Work arguing against it
has been reported recently. It was probably in Science or Nature,
within recent months.
bob
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Hot Ice Planet??? |
18 May 2007 09:44:03 AM |
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Prisoner at War wrote:
Help me understand this: it's water, but also frozen by high pressure
-- and thus hot???
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/05/16/odd.exoplanet.reut/index.html
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/images/phase.gif
Water phase diagram.
Squeeze water to 10^11 Pa and it is a solid to at least 1000 K. What
is a megabar between friends?
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
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| User: "joetaxpayer" |
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| Title: Re: Hot Ice Planet??? |
18 May 2007 07:28:06 AM |
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Prisoner at War wrote:
Help me understand this: it's water, but also frozen by high pressure
-- and thus hot???
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/05/16/odd.exoplanet.reut/index.html
yes, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law
for pV=nRT
This about it - in a pressure cooker, water can get hotter that 100C if
the container is tight enough and there's no room for it to expand.
Similarly, 'dry ice' frozen CO2, is a solid which never goes to a
liquid, it just sublimates (evaporates straight to a gas). Kind of how a
thin sheet of ice on your driveway will do the same in the winter even
though the temp is below freezing.
JOE
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