How to sense whether my toy speedboat is tipping?



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Glory Regained"
Date: 12 Feb 2005 11:40:03 AM
Object: How to sense whether my toy speedboat is tipping?
The body is soldered with steel frame and aluminium foils and it is 3Kg
together
with controller board, motor & hydrofoils, battery etc. My objective is
using four
mini-hydrofoils to raise the boat out of water and achieve a speed of 32kmh.
I
have accurate & independent control over each bydrofoils. The dimension of
my
ship is L30cm-W10cm-H10cm. My hydrofoil assemblies and turbine extend 15cm
below the body.
During the testing, it flipped frequently whenever it reached 10kmh. I think
I need
a sensor to tell my microprocessor that the angle the body forms with flat
water
surface, probably with an accuracy of up to 1 degree and a response time of
1ms.
Anybody can give a clue? The big contest is 4 weeks away.
.

User: "CWatters"

Title: Re: How to sense whether my toy speedboat is tipping? 12 Feb 2005 03:31:55 PM
"Glory Regained" <mygloryregained@hotm@il.com> wrote in message
news:culdgq$iba$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg...

During the testing, it flipped frequently whenever it reached 10kmh.

Describe flipped?
I don't believe a 3KG boat lifted off the water at 10kph (eg like Bluebird
did in 1967) so I assume you don't mean it somersaulted.
Do you mean it rolled side to side and flipped that way? Could this be
"Dutch roll"? If so I believe that this may be caused by a lack of vertical
fin area towards the back end. My guess is that the hydrofoils have too much
vertical projected area compared to the rudder/fin at the back. They may
also be too far forward.
.
User: "CWatters"

Title: Re: How to sense whether my toy speedboat is tipping? 12 Feb 2005 03:38:14 PM
"CWatters" <colin.watters@pandoraBOX.be> wrote in message
news:fBuPd.10185$nb7.654440@phobos.telenet-ops.be...


"Glory Regained" <mygloryregained@hotm@il.com> wrote in message
news:culdgq$iba$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg...

During the testing, it flipped frequently whenever it reached 10kmh.


Describe flipped?

I don't believe a 3KG boat lifted off the water at 10kph (eg like Bluebird
did in 1967) so I assume you don't mean it somersaulted.

Do you mean it rolled side to side and flipped that way? Could this be
"Dutch roll"? If so I believe that this may be caused by a lack of

vertical

fin area towards the back end. My guess is that the hydrofoils have too

much

vertical projected area compared to the rudder/fin at the back. They may
also be too far forward.

The other possibility is that there is insufficient dihedral angle for
lateral stability when the hull rises out of the water.
.


User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org"

Title: Re: How to sense whether my toy speedboat is tipping? 12 Feb 2005 01:11:54 PM
"Glory Regained" <mygloryregained@hotm@il.com> wrote in message
news:culdgq$iba$1@mawar.singnet.com.sg...

The body is soldered with steel frame and aluminium foils and it is
3Kg
together
with controller board, motor & hydrofoils, battery etc. My objective
is
using four
mini-hydrofoils to raise the boat out of water and achieve a speed of
32kmh.
I
have accurate & independent control over each bydrofoils. The
dimension of
my
ship is L30cm-W10cm-H10cm. My hydrofoil assemblies and turbine extend
15cm
below the body.

During the testing, it flipped frequently whenever it reached 10kmh. I
think
I need
a sensor to tell my microprocessor that the angle the body forms with
flat
water
surface, probably with an accuracy of up to 1 degree and a response
time of
1ms.

Anybody can give a clue? The big contest is 4 weeks away.

Small gyroscope and servo
Androcles.
.

User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: How to sense whether my toy speedboat is tipping? 12 Feb 2005 04:45:48 PM
Glory Regained wrote:


The body is soldered with steel frame and aluminium foils and it is 3Kg
together
with controller board, motor & hydrofoils, battery etc. My objective is
using four
mini-hydrofoils to raise the boat out of water and achieve a speed of 32kmh.
I
have accurate & independent control over each bydrofoils. The dimension of
my
ship is L30cm-W10cm-H10cm. My hydrofoil assemblies and turbine extend 15cm
below the body.

During the testing, it flipped frequently whenever it reached 10kmh. I think
I need
a sensor to tell my microprocessor that the angle the body forms with flat
water
surface, probably with an accuracy of up to 1 degree and a response time of
1ms.

Anybody can give a clue? The big contest is 4 weeks away.

(Solid state) 3-axis tilt meter.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.

User: "Mike"

Title: Re: How to sense whether my toy speedboat is tipping? 12 Feb 2005 05:15:52 PM
Glory Regained wrote:

The body is soldered with steel frame and aluminium foils and it is

3Kg

together
with controller board, motor & hydrofoils, battery etc. My objective

is

using four
mini-hydrofoils to raise the boat out of water and achieve a speed of

32kmh.

I
have accurate & independent control over each bydrofoils. The

dimension of

my
ship is L30cm-W10cm-H10cm. My hydrofoil assemblies and turbine extend

15cm

below the body.

During the testing, it flipped frequently whenever it reached 10kmh.

I think

I need
a sensor to tell my microprocessor that the angle the body forms with

flat

water
surface, probably with an accuracy of up to 1 degree and a response

time of

1ms.

Anybody can give a clue? The big contest is 4 weeks away.

That won't help, even as a cut-off, unless you use the signal in a
stable control loop. It sounds that 10km/hr excites an unstable pitch
mode. Surface foils tend to generate several such unstable modes. A
partical quick fix is to compensate for that pitch by having the boat
on a 10-25 deg angle when the foils are on the surface. Not more,
because you can flip the other way depending on air dynamics. Try
distributing some weights in the boat. This is a nasty non-linear
dynamics problem. Submerged foils resolve the flipping issue but need
complicated controls. Surface foils are passively controlled up to
certain speeds and wave amplitude. After that you either flip or become
a sitting duck.
Also, I would recommend avoiding alignment of front and back foils in
each side. Make you front foils extend further than the back foils.
That will assure all foils have the same dynamics.
Good luck.
Mike
.


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