Science > Physics > Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c??
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
11 Feb 2005 01:14:28 PM |
| Object: |
Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
Strange Phenomena question?
1. Question:
The further the twin distances himself in a straight line from Earth
(1/3c) then just as the twin turns around (-1/3c), if the Earth then
also travels at 1/3c to meet him *HALF-WAY* then both their clocks will
be the same again? Correct?
2. I believe from the circular magnetic accelerators machines that if
the Twin instead of a straight line travel, spun around the Earth at
1/3c then he would also exhibit a time dilation (will be younger)?
------------------------------------------------------------------
But then if any remember the twin pairs model I gave then who once
again would age less....since THIS TIME there is NO Lost distance to
recover to compare CLOCKS (meaning neither will need to travel long
distance and dilate time further before compairing clocks) ???
Therefore since the twin does not need to return to compare clocks...he
just stops his velocity and then can immediately compare clocks?
---------------------------------------
Repeat of model:
1. Two twin pairs on small platform, one pair travels at 1/3c not
straight but this time in circles around plaform.
So know the pair that are spinning at 1/3c are aging less.
2. Then one of each pair travels to meet other pair:
Meaning one that is spinning stops spinning and one on the plaform
starts to spin at 1/3c.
(Can two same size bodies in space determine WHO is spinning around
who???? With absolutely nothing else around them?)
If they really can't tell who is spinning around who (then either
perspecitve can be an inertial reference frame) then one who remains
spinning would say that his brother is aging less?
And vice-versa for the one on the platform....
But this time all they need to do is stop spinning (decelerate) and
compare clocks? (where as if the twins were traveling in a straight
line they would need to decelerate, reverse direction and travel the
same long distance back before they could compare clocks).
-----------------------------------------------------------------
3. Or possibly they're is no time dilation spinning in circles (which
is false because of experiments with circular magnetic accelerators)
SINCE like two planes going EAST and WEST if the planes return to the
centre of their departure then the clocks are again the same (Because
when you spin you're going EAST/WEST in porportional periods)???
Time travel?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
11 Feb 2005 08:51:10 PM |
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Feb 11, 11:14 am show options
Strange Phenomena question?
1. Question:
The further the twin distances himself in a straight line from Earth
(1/3c) then just as the twin turns around (-1/3c), if the Earth then
also travels at 1/3c to meet him *HALF-WAY* then both their clocks will
be the same again? Correct?
***
Nope, the first twin will age slower while traveling away at 1/3 c,
then both the earth and the traveller will age slower at the same
rate as they come together at a speed they (earth and traveller)
measure as (1/3 + 1/3)/( 1 + 1/9) the speed of light. I'm assuming
that 1/3 speed is measured from the point of view of a Martian, which
is pretty nearly at rest compared to the Earth. If a rest frame is not
specified, that part about earth also travelling at 1/3 c doesn't make
good sense. Try reading a book about relativity- Martin Gardner's book
is easily understood- A. McIntire
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| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
11 Feb 2005 10:10:52 PM |
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<alanmc95210@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1108176670.323788.32600@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
g...@hotmail.com Feb 11, 11:14 am show options
Strange Phenomena question?
1. Question:
The further the twin distances himself in a straight line from Earth
(1/3c) then just as the twin turns around (-1/3c), if the Earth then
also travels at 1/3c to meet him *HALF-WAY* then both their clocks
will
be the same again? Correct?
***
Nope, the first twin will age slower while traveling away at 1/3 c,
then both the earth and the traveller will age slower at the same
rate as they come together at a speed they (earth and traveller)
measure as (1/3 + 1/3)/( 1 + 1/9) the speed of light. I'm assuming
that 1/3 speed is measured from the point of view of a Martian, which
is pretty nearly at rest compared to the Earth. If a rest frame is
not
specified, that part about earth also travelling at 1/3 c doesn't make
good sense. Try reading a book about relativity- Martin Gardner's book
is easily understood- A. McIntire#
LOL!
If at the points A and B of K there are stationary clocks which, viewed
in the stationary system, are synchronous; and if the clock at A is
moved with the velocity v along the line AB to B, then on its arrival at
B the two clocks no longer synchronize, but the clock moved from A to B
lags behind the other which has remained at B by (1/2) tv^/c^2(up to
magnitudes of fourth and higher order), t being the time occupied in the
journey from A to B.
It is at once apparent that this result still holds good if the clock
moves from A to B in any polygonal line, and also when the points A and
B coincide.
If we assume that the result proved for a polygonal line is also valid
for a continuously curved line, we arrive at this result: If one of two
synchronous clocks at A is moved in a closed curve with constant
velocity until it returns to A, the journey lasting t seconds, then by
the clock which has remained at rest the travelled clock on its arrival
at A will be (1/2) tv^/c^2 second slow.
Einstein's paper is easily understood, but not by total cretins.
Androcles.
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| User: "Bilge" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
12 Feb 2005 04:32:10 AM |
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guskz@hotmail.com:
Strange Phenomena question?
Why ask? You have no interest in the answer beyond posting a
zilion more irrelevant articles in response.
1. Question:
The further the twin distances himself in a straight line from Earth
(1/3c) then just as the twin turns around (-1/3c), if the Earth then
also travels at 1/3c to meet him *HALF-WAY* then both their clocks will
be the same again? Correct?
2. I believe from the circular magnetic accelerators machines that if
the Twin instead of a straight line travel, spun around the Earth at
1/3c then he would also exhibit a time dilation (will be younger)?
------------------------------------------------------------------
But then if any remember the twin pairs model I gave then who once
again would age less....since THIS TIME there is NO Lost distance to
recover to compare CLOCKS (meaning neither will need to travel long
distance and dilate time further before compairing clocks) ???
Therefore since the twin does not need to return to compare clocks...he
just stops his velocity and then can immediately compare clocks?
---------------------------------------
Repeat of model:
1. Two twin pairs on small platform, one pair travels at 1/3c not
straight but this time in circles around plaform.
So know the pair that are spinning at 1/3c are aging less.
2. Then one of each pair travels to meet other pair:
Meaning one that is spinning stops spinning and one on the plaform
starts to spin at 1/3c.
(Can two same size bodies in space determine WHO is spinning around
who???? With absolutely nothing else around them?)
If they really can't tell who is spinning around who (then either
perspecitve can be an inertial reference frame) then one who remains
spinning would say that his brother is aging less?
And vice-versa for the one on the platform....
But this time all they need to do is stop spinning (decelerate) and
compare clocks? (where as if the twins were traveling in a straight
line they would need to decelerate, reverse direction and travel the
same long distance back before they could compare clocks).
-----------------------------------------------------------------
3. Or possibly they're is no time dilation spinning in circles (which
is false because of experiments with circular magnetic accelerators)
SINCE like two planes going EAST and WEST if the planes return to the
centre of their departure then the clocks are again the same (Because
when you spin you're going EAST/WEST in porportional periods)???
Time travel?
.
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| User: "Darkwing \Double Secret Disinformation Agent\ theducksmailATyahoo.com" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
11 Feb 2005 09:46:40 PM |
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<guskz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108149268.708095.213000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Strange Phenomena question?
1. Question:
The further the twin distances himself in a straight line from Earth
(1/3c) then just as the twin turns around (-1/3c), if the Earth then
also travels at 1/3c to meet him *HALF-WAY* then both their clocks will
be the same again? Correct?
No because the flux capacitor needs 1.21 gigawatts of energy, well divided
by 1/3 actually.
2. I believe from the circular magnetic accelerators machines that if
the Twin instead of a straight line travel, spun around the Earth at
1/3c then he would also exhibit a time dilation (will be younger)?
Eating right and exercise by one of twins and a hard life of drug abuse and
alcohol will seem like a 20 or 30 year time dilation when they both are
around 35-40.
Time travel?
Starbucks?
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| User: "Lady Chatterly" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
12 Feb 2005 01:13:11 AM |
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In article <110qv1q4dd47392@news.supernews.com>
Darkwing (Double Secret Disinformation Agent)
<theducksmailATyahoo.com> wrote:
<guskz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108149268.708095.213000@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Strange Phenomena question?
1. Question:
The further the twin distances himself in a straight line from Earth
(1/3c) then just as the twin turns around (-1/3c), if the Earth then
also travels at 1/3c to meet him *HALF-WAY* then both their clocks will
be the same again? Correct?
No because the flux capacitor needs 1.21 gigawatts of energy, well divided
by 1/3 actually.
6 of that one.
2. I believe from the circular magnetic accelerators machines that if
the Twin instead of a straight line travel, spun around the Earth at
1/3c then he would also exhibit a time dilation (will be younger)?
Eating right and exercise by one of twins and a hard life of drug abuse and
alcohol will seem like a 20 or 30 year time dilation when they both are
around 35-40.
The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize
the world they thought they were living in was over.
Time travel?
Starbucks?
It has now been several years since your emasculated ejaculation, yet
here you are, still as stupid as ever.
--
Lady Chatterly
"A bot it may be, but somebody set it up in the first place. They
don't just wander around like viruses." -- Aetyr
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| User: "EjP" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
11 Feb 2005 03:30:02 PM |
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wrote:
Strange Phenomena question?
1. Question:
The further the twin distances himself in a straight line from Earth
(1/3c) then just as the twin turns around (-1/3c), if the Earth then
also travels at 1/3c to meet him *HALF-WAY* then both their clocks will
be the same again? Correct?
First of all, this involves accelerating the earth to 1/3 c, which
is really hard. Second, they haven't been travelling the same
speed the whole time, so, no.
2. I believe from the circular magnetic accelerators machines that if
the Twin instead of a straight line travel, spun around the Earth at
1/3c then he would also exhibit a time dilation (will be younger)?
Yes, although the g forces would be a *****.
------------------------------------------------------------------
But then if any remember the twin pairs model I gave then who once
again would age less....since THIS TIME there is NO Lost distance to
recover to compare CLOCKS (meaning neither will need to travel long
distance and dilate time further before compairing clocks) ???
Therefore since the twin does not need to return to compare clocks...he
just stops his velocity and then can immediately compare clocks?
---------------------------------------
Repeat of model:
1. Two twin pairs on small platform, one pair travels at 1/3c not
straight but this time in circles around plaform.
So know the pair that are spinning at 1/3c are aging less.
2. Then one of each pair travels to meet other pair:
Meaning one that is spinning stops spinning and one on the plaform
starts to spin at 1/3c.
....and a duck traveling a pi/2*c and a Rabbi who's spinning
around, and Buddhist who is sitting still and meditating...
Look, the math &%&&$&%& works. Get over it and move on.
-E
(Can two same size bodies in space determine WHO is spinning around
who???? With absolutely nothing else around them?)
If they really can't tell who is spinning around who (then either
perspecitve can be an inertial reference frame) then one who remains
spinning would say that his brother is aging less?
And vice-versa for the one on the platform....
But this time all they need to do is stop spinning (decelerate) and
compare clocks? (where as if the twins were traveling in a straight
line they would need to decelerate, reverse direction and travel the
same long distance back before they could compare clocks).
-----------------------------------------------------------------
3. Or possibly they're is no time dilation spinning in circles (which
is false because of experiments with circular magnetic accelerators)
SINCE like two planes going EAST and WEST if the planes return to the
centre of their departure then the clocks are again the same (Because
when you spin you're going EAST/WEST in porportional periods)???
Time travel?
.
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| User: "Jesse Mazer" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
11 Feb 2005 05:21:01 PM |
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wrote:
Strange Phenomena question?
1. Question:
The further the twin distances himself in a straight line from Earth
(1/3c) then just as the twin turns around (-1/3c), if the Earth then
also travels at 1/3c to meet him *HALF-WAY* then both their clocks will
be the same again? Correct?
Yes.
2. I believe from the circular magnetic accelerators machines that if
the Twin instead of a straight line travel, spun around the Earth at
1/3c then he would also exhibit a time dilation (will be younger)?
Yup.
------------------------------------------------------------------
But then if any remember the twin pairs model I gave then who once
again would age less....since THIS TIME there is NO Lost distance to
recover to compare CLOCKS (meaning neither will need to travel long
distance and dilate time further before compairing clocks) ???
Therefore since the twin does not need to return to compare clocks...he
just stops his velocity and then can immediately compare clocks?
Are you still talking about a twin talking in a circle? If so, yes, they
can compare clocks when the twin circles around once.
---------------------------------------
Repeat of model:
1. Two twin pairs on small platform, one pair travels at 1/3c not
straight but this time in circles around plaform.
So know the pair that are spinning at 1/3c are aging less.
2. Then one of each pair travels to meet other pair:
Meaning one that is spinning stops spinning and one on the plaform
starts to spin at 1/3c.
(Can two same size bodies in space determine WHO is spinning around
who???? With absolutely nothing else around them?)
If they really can't tell who is spinning around who (then either
perspecitve can be an inertial reference frame)
No, spinning is absolute in SR, since it is a form of
acceleration--acceleration means either change in speed *or* change in
direction (a twin spinning around can tell he's spinning because he'll
feel a centrifugal force while his non-spinning brother won't).
Jesse
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| User: "Jesse Mazer" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
11 Feb 2005 05:27:35 PM |
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Jesse Mazer wrote:
guskz@hotmail.com wrote:
Strange Phenomena question?
1. Question:
The further the twin distances himself in a straight line from Earth
(1/3c) then just as the twin turns around (-1/3c), if the Earth then
also travels at 1/3c to meet him *HALF-WAY* then both their clocks will
be the same again? Correct?
Yes.
Whoops, I'm wrong about this, the situation isn't really symmetrical. In
the frame in which the earth was initially at rest, the travelling twin
is first travelling right at 1/3c, then turns around and travels left at
1/3c, while the earth starts travelling right at 1/3c. In the frame
where the travelling twin was initially at rest, the earth was first
travelling left at 1/3c, then it *comes to rest* in this frame while the
travelling twin starts travelling left at 1/3c.
Jesse
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
12 Feb 2005 06:43:59 AM |
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Jesse Mazer wrote:
If they really can't tell who is spinning around who (then either
perspecitve can be an inertial reference frame)
No, spinning is absolute in SR, since it is a form of
acceleration--acceleration means either change in speed *or* change
in
direction (a twin spinning around can tell he's spinning because
he'll
feel a centrifugal force while his non-spinning brother won't).
Jesse
Ya know Jesse you're a 10 for 10, several replies in many posts and
your the "only" one who answers dead on....of course the centrifugal
force.
thanx
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| User: "Eric Gisse" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
11 Feb 2005 01:23:14 PM |
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wrote:
[snip]
www.google.com "twin paradox" relativity, or alternatively, read the
fine links that have been given to you over and over.
Stick to rambling about nostradamus. You will forget about this foray
into physics within a few weeks and so will we, so to lessen the pain
for all involved - just give up now.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
11 Feb 2005 02:25:13 PM |
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Eric Gisse wrote:
g...@hotmail.com wrote:
You will forget about this foray
into physics within a few weeks and so will we, so to lessen the pain
for all involved - just give up now.
I'll go away if you can prove that the East and West planes do not have
the same time dilation if they return to they're point of origin and
compare clocks....IF THE EARTH WAS NOT SPINNNG.
This means Doctor Eric, in this respect I was correct all along and you
were simply Heckling away to the void.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
11 Feb 2005 02:34:34 PM |
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wrote:
Eric Gisse wrote:
wrote:
You will forget about this foray
into physics within a few weeks and so will we, so to lessen the
pain
for all involved - just give up now.
I'll go away if you can prove that the East and West planes do not
have
the same time dilation if they return to they're point of origin and
compare clocks....IF THE EARTH WAS NOT SPINNNG.
This means Doctor Eric, in this respect I was correct all along and
you
were simply Heckling away to the void.
So what's your problem Doctor Eric who's probably half my age.
Your girlfriend left ya for another girl?
There's a zillion TWIN PARADOX models EVERYWHERE were they do not
account for the EARTH's SPIN.....and here you are keep HECKLING away at
me that it MUST be included.
Does one who is not polite except politeness in return?
Or are though still hung-up about thy broken magnets, how about if I
ship one to you?
Sniff I even sent you web links that say if you hit a magnet with a
hammer that it's polarities can reverse depending on it's orientation
with the Poles of the Earth.
Sniff?
Couldn't it mean that molecules are not 100% non-ionic and this very
minute residual re-orients itself with gravity to form attraction
similarly to the hammer and the less viscous magnets I just mentionned?
Nooo, Eric just wants to memorize on past schooling and hide from
unkown possibilities.
Back to the books just keep *memorizing* away.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
11 Feb 2005 02:22:07 PM |
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Well if you're too busy studying for school keep studying.
I posted an INTERESTING question about spinning in circles instead of
twins moving in a straight line.
This way there's no distance catching up to do to very the
clocks...they just stop and compare clocks = BIG DIFFERENCE.
The links you provided below are futile for the "Twin paradox" is only
used in linear motion, not spinning motion.
1. If there's only 2 bodies spinning in space...can either one know
WHOM is spinning around whom???
2. If not there maybe a time dilation question as to whom is aging
less?
Eric Gisse wrote:
g...@hotmail.com wrote:
[snip]
www.google.com "twin paradox" relativity, or alternatively, read the
fine links that have been given to you over and over.
Stick to rambling about nostradamus. You will forget about this foray
into physics within a few weeks and so will we, so to lessen the pain
for all involved - just give up now.
.
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
12 Feb 2005 12:12:40 AM |
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<guskz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108153327.252150.205770@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Well if you're too busy studying for school keep studying.
I posted an INTERESTING question about spinning in circles instead
of
twins moving in a straight line.
Not so. It was as boring as can be.
[snip]
Franz
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| User: "Lady Chatterly" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
12 Feb 2005 04:17:32 AM |
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In article <cuk6on$jao@titan.btinternet.com>
Franz Heymann <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote:
<guskz@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1108153327.252150.205770@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Well if you're too busy studying for school keep studying.
I posted an INTERESTING question about spinning in circles instead
of
twins moving in a straight line.
Not so. It was as boring as can be.
Is the best way to go to the security service wish me extinct?
[snip]
A wise man makes his own decisions, an ignorant man follows the public
opinion.
--
Lady Chatterly
"Hey! Didn't realise you post on Michael Jackson's discussion group,
too!!!! Wow! At lease that site has 1500 posts compaired to about 198
or so , here!" -- Judy
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| User: "Too Many Kooks Spoil the Brothel" |
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| Title: Re: Is there Time Dilation if Twins circle the Earth at 1/3c?? |
12 Feb 2005 04:52:43 AM |
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None of this applies to Superman, who goes back in time by orbiting the
Earth fast enough.
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