Science > Physics > =?iso-8859-1?q?Henri_Poincar=E9_Discovered_Special_Relativity,_not_Albert_Einstein?=
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Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Perspicacious" |
| Date: |
06 Aug 2005 10:35:21 AM |
| Object: |
=?iso-8859-1?q?Henri_Poincar=E9_Discovered_Special_Relativity,_not_Albert_Einstein?= |
The mathematician Henri Poincar=E9 set up all the basic
concepts of special relativity several years before
Einstein published On the Electrodynamics of Moving
Bodies (Annalen der Physik vol XVII 1905 p 891-921).
Here is the short version of the story:
http://www-cosmosaf.iap.fr/Poincare-RR3A.htm
For a 254 page commentary discussing the substantial
contributions made to relativity theory by Henri
Poincar=E9, see http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408077
A few insights on the physics community's shameful
exaggeration of Einstein's abilities and originality,
and the creation of Einstein's superhero status, are
mentioned here:
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/einstein.html
Have you ever noticed how many books, articles and
science programs (Nova, PBS) are devoted to instilling
a sense of worship for characters like Einstein and
Steven Hawking rather than explaining modern physics?
For a modern, easy-to-understand introduction to
special relativity (written by a mathematician) see
http://www.everythingimportant.org/relativity/
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| User: "Perspicacious" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Henri_Poincar=E9_Discovered_Special_Relativity,_not_Albert_Einstein?= |
07 Aug 2005 07:51:49 AM |
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Sam Wormley wrote:
Empirical fact: space and time are malleable,
affected by relative velocity and gravity.
Fact: The point of this thread is a thesis that
relates to the supplied links. The thread title
is "Henri Poincar=E9 Discovered Special Relativity,
not Albert Einstein."
Fact: You are so brain-dead, confused, hypnotized,
demon-possessed, or whatever, that you never and
can't possibly ever address the actual issues of
the topic.
Fact: You still can't read or think normally.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Henri =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Poincar=E9_Discovered_Special_Rel?==?ISO-8859-1?Q?ativity=2C_not_Albert_Einstein?= |
06 Aug 2005 11:07:21 PM |
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Perspicacious wrote:
You are still a brain-damaged worshiper of A. Einstein
that can't read or think normally.
The speed of light is that same for all observers--and that space and time
are malleable, affected my relative velocity and gravity. Special Relativity
is self consistent and empirically correct. There has *never* been a prediction
of special relativity that was contradicted by a observation. *Never!*
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| User: "Y.Porat" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Henri_Poincar=E9_Discovered_Special_Relativity,_not_Albert_Einstein?= |
06 Aug 2005 11:19:23 PM |
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The deviation of light next to the sun
is not becuse........ curved space-time
but most simply because-
th photon has mass!! and it is acted by the
gravitation of the sun
no need to complicate simple things
now i agree that no mass can reach the velocity of light but .....
for that there is need to be a bit more than
a parrot
and realize that:
the photon is an exception to the above rule.
now about all the rest of relativity of Einstein--
i agree !!
Newton said once:
i could see further away because...
i was standing on the shoulders of giants !!
so who was standing on the solders of whom
Einstein on Poincar=E9 or vice versa
i dont know yet
both of them were Giants!!
------------
ATB
Y=2EPorat
---------------------
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| User: "Perspicacious" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Henri_Poincar=E9_Discovered_Special_Relativity,_not_Albert_Einstein?= |
06 Aug 2005 09:29:10 PM |
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Tom Davidson wrote:
[ Poincar=E9 ] has the same appalling lack of
mathematical utility seen in crank posts
elsewhere in this forum.
It's obvious that you don't understand Poincar=E9,
Perspicacious or Shubert.
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| User: "tadchem" |
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| Title: Re: Henri Poincaré Discovered Special Relativity, not Albert Einstein |
07 Aug 2005 05:13:31 PM |
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"Perspicacious" <iperspicacious@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1123381750.637326.245220@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Tom Davidson wrote:
[ Poincaré ] has the same appalling lack of
mathematical utility seen in crank posts
elsewhere in this forum.
It's obvious that you don't understand Poincaré,
Perspicacious or Shubert.
You will not get very far misquoting others.
What I wrote was:
While there is little doubt that Poincaré made contributions to the theory,
his expression of the Principle of Relativity [to wit, quoting from
http://www-cosmosaf.iap.fr/Poincare-RR3A.htm : "In his book "La science et
l'hypothèse"
(1902), Poincaré devoted a full chapter to the relativity principle: "There
is no absolute uniform motion, no physical experience can therefore detect
any inertial motion (no force felt) , there is no absolute time, saying that
two events have the same duration is conventional, as well as saying they
are simultaneous is purely conventional as they occur in different places
".] has the same appalling lack of mathematical utility seen in crank posts
elsewhere in this forum.
To parse that down to a simple sentence for your level of English
comprehension, I wrote:
"[Poincaré's] expression of the Principle of Relativity ... has the same
appalling lack of mathematical utility seen in crank posts elsewhere in this
forum."
I was critiquing his expression of the principle of relativity. It falls
short of the statement made by Einstein in many respects. Einstein's
statement has as logical consequents (corollaries)all of Poincaré's
statements.
I intended no personal criticism of the mathematician himself.
I understand Poincaré, Einstein, and SR, but I see no need to understand you
or Shubert.
*plonk*
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
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| User: "Perspicacious" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Henri_Poincar=E9_Discovered_Special_Relativity,_not_Albert_Einstein?= |
07 Aug 2005 10:24:33 PM |
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Tom Davidson wrote:
"[Poincar=E9's] expression of the Principle of Relativity ...
has the same appalling lack of mathematical utility seen in
crank posts elsewhere in this forum."
Poincar=E9's derivation of the Lorentz transformation is sheer
elegance. http://www-cosmosaf.iap.fr/Poincare-RR3A.htm
Einstein's derivation is a torturous insult and is extremely
convoluted. (Annalen der Physik vol XVII 1905 p 891-921).
Your statement about Poincar=E9's appalling lack of mathematical
utility in his Principle of Relativity is outrageous, closed-
minded ignorance. Poincar=E9 dominated the mathematical high-
ground of special relativity. =20
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408077
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Henri =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Poincar=E9_Discovered_Special_Rel?==?ISO-8859-1?Q?ativity=2C_not_Albert_Einstein?= |
07 Aug 2005 10:35:19 PM |
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Perspicacious wrote:
Tom Davidson wrote:
"[Poincaré's] expression of the Principle of Relativity ...
has the same appalling lack of mathematical utility seen in
crank posts elsewhere in this forum."
Poincaré's derivation of the Lorentz transformation is sheer
elegance. http://www-cosmosaf.iap.fr/Poincare-RR3A.htm
Einstein's derivation is a torturous insult and is extremely
convoluted. (Annalen der Physik vol XVII 1905 p 891-921).
Your statement about Poincaré's appalling lack of mathematical
utility in his Principle of Relativity is outrageous, closed-
minded ignorance. Poincaré dominated the mathematical high-
ground of special relativity.
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408077
I don't think Shubert could recognize mathematical elegance.
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| User: "Perspicacious" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Henri_Poincar=E9_Discovered_Special_Relativity,_not_Albert_Einstein?= |
07 Aug 2005 06:41:25 PM |
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Tom Davidson wrote:
I understand Poincar=E9, Einstein, and SR,
but I see no need to understand you or
Shubert.
I take that to mean that you are very willing
to believe in the hype about Einstein, created
by Eddington and perpetuated by the news media,
because you see the advantages in doing so.
Eddington's observations confirmed Einstein's
theory, and were hailed at the time as a
conclusive proof of general relativity over
the Newtonian model; the news was reported
in newspapers all over the world as a major
story. It is also the source of the urban
rumor that only three people understand
relativity; when asked by a reporter who
suggested this, Eddington jokingly replied
"Oh, who's the third?"
However, recent historical examinations of
the case have shown that the raw data was
inconclusive, and that Eddington was
arbitrarily selective in choosing which
results to use. For a detailed account,
see [the link] predictive power.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Eddington
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.research/msg/398700efdcfa3c=
cc
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/sci.physics.research/msg/af718d89605476=
3f
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| User: "Perspicacious" |
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| Title: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re:_Henri_Poincar=E9_Discovered_Special_Relativity,_not_Albert_Einstein?= |
08 Aug 2005 08:22:04 AM |
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Tom Davidson wrote:
"[Poincar=E9's] expression of the Principle of Relativity ...
has the same appalling lack of mathematical utility seen in
crank posts elsewhere in this forum."
Perspicacious wrote:
Poincar=E9's derivation of the Lorentz transformation is sheer
elegance. http://www-cosmosaf.iap.fr/Poincare-RR3A.htm
Einstein's derivation is a torturous insult and is extremely
convoluted. (Annalen der Physik vol XVII 1905 p 891-921).
Your statement about Poincar=E9's appalling lack of mathematical
utility in his Principle of Relativity is outrageous, closed-
minded ignorance. Poincar=E9 dominated the mathematical high-
ground of special relativity. http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408077
Tom Davidson,
By your own criterion, Henri Poincar=E9 is the discoverer of
special relativity, not Einstein.
It's reasonable to accept Henri Poincar=E9 as the originator
of special relativity because he was the first to enunciate
the principle of relativity and the first to derive a large
number of relativistic equations.
Anatoly Alexeivich Logunov has proven the priority and the
superiority of Poincare's formulation of the special theory
of relativity over Einstein's later and less sophisticated
work. Poincar=E9 pioneered the concept of synchronizing clocks
with light signals in his articles and lectures La Mesure du
Temps (1898), La Theorie de Lorentz at le Principe de Reaction
(1900) and The Principles of Mathematical Physics (1904).
Einstein copied this method without giving Poincar=E9 credit
for the innovation. Poincar=E9 stated the principle of
relativity in 1895, and in 1905 published an extremely
elegant derivation of the Lorentz transformation.
Poincare's approach to the Lorentz transformation is the
essential outline for all modern derivations of the LT today.
It was Poincar=E9, not Einstein, who introduced four-dimensional
space-time into the theory of relativity. At first, Einstein
did not approve of the idea. Einstein learned the formula
E=3Dmc^2 from Poincare's 1900 paper.
http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0408077
http://www-cosmosaf.iap.fr/Poincare-RR3A.htm
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