Science > Physics > Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"habshi" |
| Date: |
08 May 2007 05:48:16 PM |
| Object: |
Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
No need to go to the moon to mine helium. In fact the moon has
turned me into a militant atheist. How dare cruel non existent allah
make such a drab grey thing for us to look at ?. The first thing we
must do when we go back to the moon , at least I will try and persuade
the Indians to do it , is to paint it a bright safforn or fiery red ,
to remind us humans how powerful we are..
excerpt
By KEAY DAVIDSON
San Francisco Chronicle
Monday, May 07, 2007
Scientists are eyeing the jet stream, an energy source that rages
night and day, 365 days a year, just a few miles above our heads. If
they can tap into its fierce winds, the world's entire electrical
needs could be met, they say.
The trick is figuring out how to harness the energy and get it down to
the ground cost-effectively and safely.
Dozens of researchers in California and around the world believe huge
kitelike wind-power generators could be the solution. As bizarre as
that might seem, respected experts say the idea is sound enough to
justify further investigation.
The jet stream typically blows from west to east 6 to 9 miles over the
Northern Hemisphere at speeds up to 310 mph.
By lofting generators into the upper atmosphere, scientists theorize
they could capture the power of the jet stream and transmit the
electricity along cables back to Earth.
A wind machine, floated into such a monstrous force, would transmit
electricity on aluminum or copper cables _ or through invisible
microwave beams _ down to power grids, where it would be distributed
to homes and businesses. Unlike ground-based wind generators, the
high-altitude devices would be too high to be heard and barely visible
against the blue sky.
"My calculations show that if we could just tap into 1 percent of the
energy in high-altitude winds, it would be enough to power all
civilization. The whole planet!" said atmospheric scientist Ken
Caldeira at the Carnegie Institution's Department of Global Ecology at
Stanford University.
Research into high-altitude wind machines began in the 1980s. Bryan
Roberts of the University of Technology in Sydney, Australia, was an
early pioneer. Working with a team of researchers, he has field-tested
a small, two-rotor prototype device tethered a short distance above
the ground, successfully generating the electricity from low-level
winds and transmitting it to Earth.
Creating a much larger, commercially viable system envisioned by
scientists would take millions of dollars of research. Scientists need
to figure out the structural materials that could stand up to the jet
stream's buffeting winds and find a way to adjust the generator's
position as the jet stream meanders back and forth across the sky.
Perhaps more vexing is determining the appropriate size and
composition of the cable that would act like the string on a child's
kite to keep the machine from blowing away while it functions as an
electrical transmission line.
Obstacles aside, some optimists think the jet stream could supply
commercial electricity within a decade or two.
"My opinion is that 15 years from now, it'll supply most of the power
in the United States," said David Shepard, a veteran Silicon Valley
entrepreneur from Ramona, Calif., who with Caldeira and other
researchers in Australia and Canada is helping Roberts plan the
helicopter-like version of a wind machine.
Others, like Caldeira, are more cautious. "In the 19th century, it
took 25 years for oil to replace 1 percent of the coal market,"
Caldeira said. "The energy infrastructure tends to evolve slowly."
Engineering aside, there will be other hiccups to work out. For
instance, there's uncertainty about how much the machines or their
cables would threaten birds.
Another concern might be whether such technology would pose a danger
to airplanes. For his part, Shepard isn't worried. He points out that
U.S. authorities have maintained a fleet of tethered balloons as part
of drug-traffic-tracking operations along the U.S.-Mexican border. The
Tethered Aerostat Radar System, which monitors aircraft, typically
floats at an altitude of 15,000 feet and planes have never collided
with them.
There is a remarkable variety of designs for high-flying wind
machines, some of which resemble blimps or futuristic helicopters.
Others look like Alexander Calder-style mobile sculptures. An early,
240-kilowatt prototype of a wind machine could weigh 1,140 pounds and
have four rotors, each of which might be 35 feet wide from tip to tip
and would spin up to five times per second.
At the moment, though, only small lab prototypes used in field tests
have seen the light of day.
Rafe Pomerance, president of the nonprofit Climate Policy Center in
Washington, thinks the jet-stream-energy idea has merit. He held a
private teleconference with Shepard and his colleagues on April 30 to
find out more about it.
Afterward, Pomerance, a member of the U.S. negotiating team for the
Kyoto treaty on global warming and a deputy assistant secretary of
state for environment in the Clinton administration, told the San
Francisco Chronicle that high-altitude wind power should be
investigated. He said he will be looking into whether his center
should do anything to find research funds from federal agencies or
private investors for Shepard's team.
"We need to be investing in multiple options because global warming
requires massive transformation of the global energy system," he said.
Bob Thresher, director of the U.S. National Wind Technology Center, a
division of the Department of Energy, offered a more restrained view
of the scientists' plans.
"There's a tremendous advantage in going up (toward the jet stream)
because there's much more energetic winds," he said. But if
high-altitude wind generators are to succeed, "you have to be able to
do it very cheaply because the cost of (ground-based) wind energy has
come down so dramatically, it's becoming competitive with conventional
sources."
In the March 1 issue of IEEE Transactions on Energy Conversion, a
journal for electric-power professionals, Roberts and six other
researchers, including Caldeira and Shepard, described their plans for
a prototype, 240-kilowatt flying electric generator costing "something
in the ballpark of $5 million," according to Caldeira.
(E-mail Keay Davidson at kdavidson@sfchronicle.com.)
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
08 May 2007 06:07:03 PM |
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"habshi" <habshi@anony.com> wrote in message =
news:4640fdae.819375@news.clara.net...
No need to go to the moon to mine helium. In fact the moon has
turned me into a militant atheist. How dare cruel non existent allah
make such a drab grey thing for us to look at ?. The first thing we
must do when we go back to the moon , at least I will try and persuade
the Indians to do it , is to paint it a bright safforn or fiery red ,
to remind us humans how powerful we are..
I read a sci-fi story years ago where some bright spark put a Coca Cola
sign on it. You'll have to better.
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| User: "Phineas T Puddleduck" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
08 May 2007 05:59:43 PM |
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In article <4640fdae.819375@news.clara.net>, (habshi) wrote:
No need to go to the moon to mine helium. In fact the moon has
turned me into a militant atheist. How dare cruel non existent allah
make such a drab grey thing for us to look at ?. The first thing we
must do when we go back to the moon , at least I will try and persuade
the Indians to do it , is to paint it a bright safforn or fiery red ,
to remind us humans how powerful we are..
Please, for the love of whatever deity, stop posting.
--
Sacred keeper of the Hollow Sphere, and the space within the Coffee Boy
singularity.
COOSN-174-07-82116: alt.astronomy's favourite poster (from a survey taken
of the saucerhead high command).
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
08 May 2007 06:56:36 PM |
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Phineas T Puddleduck wrote:
In article <4640fdae.819375@news.clara.net>, (habshi) wrote:
No need to go to the moon to mine helium. In fact the moon has
turned me into a militant atheist. How dare cruel non existent allah
make such a drab grey thing for us to look at ?. The first thing we
must do when we go back to the moon , at least I will try and persuade
the Indians to do it , is to paint it a bright safforn or fiery red ,
to remind us humans how powerful we are..
Please, for the love of whatever deity, stop posting.
Kill files work remarkably well for the likes of
habshit
androcles
many others
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
08 May 2007 06:45:02 PM |
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In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.com> wrote:
No need to go to the moon to mine helium.
Everyone else already knows that.
<snip drivel>
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
08 May 2007 10:56:30 PM |
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In sci.physics, habshi
<habshi@anony.com>
wrote
on Tue, 08 May 2007 22:48:16 GMT
<4640fdae.819375@news.clara.net>:
No need to go to the moon to mine helium. In fact the moon has
turned me into a militant atheist. How dare cruel non existent allah
make such a drab grey thing for us to look at ?. The first thing we
must do when we go back to the moon , at least I will try and persuade
the Indians to do it , is to paint it a bright safforn or fiery red ,
to remind us humans how powerful we are..
And how many gallons of paint were you planning on taking up?
Go fly a kite. :-P
[jet-stream kite snipped]
--
#191,
Linux. Because life's too short for a buggy OS.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "habshi" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
09 May 2007 07:11:29 PM |
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Only a few molecules thick . It doesnt evaporate
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
09 May 2007 08:45:03 PM |
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In sci.physics habshi <habshi@anony.com> wrote:
Only a few molecules thick .
Things only a few molecules thick tend to be transparent.
It doesnt evaporate
Good luck on that given the daytime temperature and vacuum.
You are still an idiot.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "Don Stockbauer" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
09 May 2007 07:46:13 AM |
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On May 8, 9:56 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
In sci.physics, habshi
<hab...@anony.com>
wrote
on Tue, 08 May 2007 22:48:16 GMT
<4640fdae.819...@news.clara.net>:
No need to go to the moon to mine helium. In fact the moon has
turned me into a militant atheist. How dare cruel non existent allah
make such a drab grey thing for us to look at ?. The first thing we
must do when we go back to the moon , at least I will try and persuade
the Indians to do it , is to paint it a bright safforn or fiery red ,
to remind us humans how powerful we are..
And how many gallons of paint were you planning on taking up?
Go fly a kite. :-P
[jet-stream kite snipped]
--
#191,
Linux. Because life's too short for a buggy OS.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
Hydrogen dissociated from H2O using solar power. Good till sun
becomes a red giant.
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| User: "Igor" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
09 May 2007 12:12:16 PM |
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On May 9, 8:46 am, Don Stockbauer <don.stockba...@gmail.com> wrote:
On May 8, 9:56 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
In sci.physics, habshi
<hab...@anony.com>
wrote
on Tue, 08 May 2007 22:48:16 GMT
<4640fdae.819...@news.clara.net>:
No need to go to the moon to mine helium. In fact the moon has
turned me into a militant atheist. How dare cruel non existent allah
make such a drab grey thing for us to look at ?. The first thing we
must do when we go back to the moon , at least I will try and persuade
the Indians to do it , is to paint it a bright safforn or fiery red ,
to remind us humans how powerful we are..
And how many gallons of paint were you planning on taking up?
Go fly a kite. :-P
[jet-stream kite snipped]
--
#191,
Linux. Because life's too short for a buggy OS.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account fromhttp://www.teranews.com
Hydrogen dissociated from H2O using solar power. Good till sun
becomes a red giant
It's called photo-electrolysis. Interesting stuff.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photoelectrolysis
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
09 May 2007 03:49:46 PM |
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On May 8, 3:48 pm, (habshi) wrote:
(Stuff any sane science fiction author would reject as "too silly to
print".)
It's been said that one's reach ought to exceed one's grasp but you
have taken it to the extreme; equivalent to dividing by zero.
Mark L. Fergerson
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| User: "mike3" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
08 May 2007 07:51:21 PM |
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On May 8, 4:48 pm, (habshi) wrote:
No need to go to the moon to mine helium. In fact the moon has
turned me into a militant atheist. How dare cruel non existent allah
make such a drab grey thing for us to look at ?. The first thing we
must do when we go back to the moon , at least I will try and persuade
the Indians to do it , is to paint it a bright safforn or fiery red ,
to remind us humans how powerful we are..
Or a big WINDOWS logo to show the dominion of the M$ Empire...
Why the Indians? I doubt they would have the resources...
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
08 May 2007 07:59:43 PM |
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habshi wrote:
[snip crap]
Scientists are eyeing the jet stream, an energy source that rages
night and day, 365 days a year, just a few miles above our heads. If
they can tap into its fierce winds, the world's entire electrical
needs could be met, they say.
[snip rest of crap]
Hey stooopid, the jet stream boogaloos like an expensive *****'s
hips. It moves 30+ degrees latitude over days. Are ya gonna chase it
in a wog windcraft like the one in "Barbarella"?
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
08 May 2007 11:02:19 PM |
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In sci.physics, Uncle Al
<UncleAl0@hate.spam.net>
wrote
on Tue, 08 May 2007 17:59:43 -0700
<46411CFF.344C3DD9@hate.spam.net>:
habshi wrote:
[snip crap]
Scientists are eyeing the jet stream, an energy source that rages
night and day, 365 days a year, just a few miles above our heads. If
they can tap into its fierce winds, the world's entire electrical
needs could be met, they say.
[snip rest of crap]
Hey stooopid, the jet stream boogaloos like an expensive *****'s
hips. It moves 30+ degrees latitude over days. Are ya gonna chase it
in a wog windcraft like the one in "Barbarella"?
I was wondering that myself. How the hell is a kite going
to follow the whorls and snarls of the jet stream as the
cyclones and anticyclones meander across the US?
(Or, if one prefers, China; they do have a history of
interesting kites, though.)
And they're big highs and lows, too.
Especially with a big fat, kilometers-long, presumably
stranded-copper cable attached thereto? Or a microwave
generator that is supposed to somehow track a ground
target while the kite is being bucked around by turbulence,
and avoid frying the large city nearby?
Nice idea, but I don't know if it'll fly. (ahem)
--
#191,
Linux. Because life's too short for a buggy OS.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
09 May 2007 07:30:08 AM |
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"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
news:bnt7h4-9lp.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
Hey stooopid, the jet stream boogaloos like an expensive *****'s
hips. It moves 30+ degrees latitude over days. Are ya gonna chase it
in a wog windcraft like the one in "Barbarella"?
I was wondering that myself. How the hell is a kite going
to follow the whorls and snarls of the jet stream as the
cyclones and anticyclones meander across the US?
The jet stream has a lot of sheer in it. eg different speeds at different
heights. Perhaps you could exploit this difference?
The following in't a practical proposition but.... a "balloon" floating at
the bottom of the jet stream could raise a "windmill" into the middle of the
jet stream. the resulting craft would be blown along at say half the max
speed of the stream and somewhat less than half the possible energy. It
would continue to orbit the planet in the jetsreams using some of the power
to move sideways to follow the movements of the stream.. Beam down the power
using microwaves. ...ok lots of problems to solve but perhaps not
impossible?
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
12 May 2007 12:36:02 PM |
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In sci.physics, CWatters
<colin.watters@turnersNOSPAMoak.plus.com>
wrote
on Wed, 9 May 2007 13:30:08 +0100
<4641becb$0$8741$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <ewill@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in message
news:bnt7h4-9lp.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
Hey stooopid, the jet stream boogaloos like an expensive *****'s
hips. It moves 30+ degrees latitude over days. Are ya gonna chase it
in a wog windcraft like the one in "Barbarella"?
I was wondering that myself. How the hell is a kite going
to follow the whorls and snarls of the jet stream as the
cyclones and anticyclones meander across the US?
The jet stream has a lot of sheer in it. eg different speeds at different
heights. Perhaps you could exploit this difference?
The following in't a practical proposition but.... a "balloon" floating at
the bottom of the jet stream could raise a "windmill" into the middle of the
jet stream. the resulting craft would be blown along at say half the max
speed of the stream and somewhat less than half the possible energy. It
would continue to orbit the planet in the jetsreams using some of the power
to move sideways to follow the movements of the stream.. Beam down the power
using microwaves. ...ok lots of problems to solve but perhaps not
impossible?
Unless the unit has considerable drag in the slow part of the stream,
this won't work for long. Anyone familiar with hot-air ballooning knows
that a balloon floats in essentially dead calm (as far as the balloon is
concerned); of course the ground tracker team has to follow the balloon
whither it will, as the wind is not calm relative to *them*, though in
ideal ballooning conditions the wind is slight.
As for raising the windmill -- that will flip the unit over, as the
center of gravity shifts. Not a good thing.
--
#191,
"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of
elderberries!" - Monty Python and the Holy Grail
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "Autymn D. C." |
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| Title: Re: Jet stream can meet all our energy needs many times over |
13 May 2007 03:02:45 AM |
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On May 9, 5:30 am, "CWatters"
<colin.watt...@turnersNOSPAMoak.plus.com> wrote:
"The Ghost In The Machine" <e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote in messagenews:bnt7h4-9lp.ln1@sirius.tg00suus7038.net...
Hey stooopid, the jet stream boogaloos like an expensive *****'s
hips. It moves 30+ degrees latitude over days. Are ya gonna chase it
in a wog windcraft like the one in "Barbarella"?
I was wondering that myself. How the hell is a kite going
to follow the whorls and snarls of the jet stream as the
cyclones and anticyclones meander across the US?
The jet stream has a lot of sheer in it. eg different speeds at different
heights. Perhaps you could exploit this difference?
shear
ea != ee != e != i != y
vanecloudnet: blades on balloons with wires between them (the blades)
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