| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Jack Sarfatti" |
| Date: |
01 Nov 2006 05:10:32 PM |
| Object: |
Lenny Susskind's Oct 2006 Nature Physics paper |
Note online version of Susskind's paper has a typo - a de Sitter metric
where the Schwarzschild metric was supposed to be.
On Nov 1, 2006, at 2:34 PM, Jack Sarfatti wrote:
First the Good News
Equation (1) reveals another peculiarity in the interior of the horizon:
the function (1-2MG/r)-1 changes sign, implying that behind the horizon
the coordinate t becomes space-like, whereas the radial coordinate r
becomes time-like. This interchange of space-like and time-like means
that the singularity is space-like. In other words the singularity is
not a place — the singularity is a time. One approaches the singularity,
not as one would approach a location in space, but as one would approach
the end of the world.
Nicely worded. :-)
Other examples of good teaching are:
Black holes have always been paradoxical objects, even before their
quantum behaviour was considered. For example, from the perspective of
an observer who remains outside the black hole, any object that falls
towards the horizon takes an infinite time to reach it — in other words,
according to all observations done from the outside, nothing ever
crosses into the interior of the black hole. But from the point of view
of a freely falling observer, there is no obstruction to crossing the
horizon. Moreover the crossing happens after a finite amount of the
infalling observer's (proper) time.
Another peculiarity: the observer outside the black hole sees the
infalling observer slow down as she asymptotically approaches the
horizon. This slowdown includes the freely falling observer's clocks as
well as her internal metabolism and her brain functions. Does the
infalling observer see the outside observer speed up? Not at all, the
infalling observer sees nothing out of the ordinary as she passes the
horizon — at least until she approaches the singularity.
The first indication that quantum mechanics added something new to the
black-hole story was the 1972 discovery by Jacob Bekenstein1,2 that
black holes have a heat content. Bekenstein argued that unless black
holes possess entropy, the second law of thermodynamics can be violated.
The argument is simple. Imagine a quantity of hot gas or thermal
radiation falling into a black hole: considered from the viewpoint of
the external observer, the entropy of the gas disappears, leaving only a
featureless black hole; thus, the observer sees an effective decrease of
entropy — a violation of the second law. The only way to rescue the
situation is to assume that the black hole has an entropy that increases
when it absorbs the energy of the gas. This fits well with the fact that
the observer never sees the gas fall through the horizon, but it seems
to conflict with the absolute uniqueness of the black-hole solution.
Let's consider a highly excited string in its rest frame. A given
string-theory setup (I will assume four space–time dimensions but the
principles are easily extendible to other number of dimensions) is
characterized by a number of constants, but, for our purposes, only two
are important: one dimensionless string coupling constant g and a length
scale ls, called the string scale. The string scale is the basic
dimensional length scale in the theory and all other scales derive from
it. For example, the Planck length lP, or equivalently the gravitational
constant G, is related to these by G
<glyph.gif>
lP^2 = g^2ls^2
Therefore G at small scales can increase if either g increases or ls
increases.
The second fact is specific to string theory: the coupling constant g is
really the value of a dynamical field (the dilaton field) and can be
varied. This means that g can be used as a control parameter.
Now the Bad News ;-)
"The Question is: What is The Question?" John A. Wheeler
Do the usual rules of quantum mechanics and information theory hold for
a black hole? Or are there new rules when quantum mechanics meets
gravity? - Susskind
Today, there is some consensus that black holes do not violate the
operational principles of conventional quantum mechanics. By this I mean
that the formation and evaporation of a black hole can be described by
the same kind of unitary time evolution that describes conventional
systems - Susskind
I deny this. It violates P W Anderson's macro-quantum "More is
different." The horizon of the black hole, indeed curved space-time,
cannot be described by micro-quantum theory that is linear and unitary
with signal locality in the presence of nonlocal entanglement. One must
use vacuum ODLRO macro-quantum theory with emergent tetrads and spin
connections from the coherent vacuum Goldstone phases that have, still
some residual virtual "exotic vacua" ZPF jitter (dark energy and dark
matter of negative and positive pressure respectively). The
Landau-Ginzburg emergent equation for the condensate is nonlinear,
nonunitary with signal nonlocality violating "sub-quantal equilibrium"
(A. Valentini) and a breakdown of the Born probability interpretation.
The ZPF "dark energy" jitter still mostly obeys micro-quantum theory but
it is coupled to the condensate reservoir. This is why Hawking's
original position is pointing to the correct explanation IMHO.
it took about twenty years to make the connection between the
statistical properties of strings and black holes20.
to be continued
.
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| User: "Gib Bogle" |
|
| Title: Re: Lenny Susskind's Oct 2006 Nature Physics paper |
01 Nov 2006 06:45:36 PM |
|
|
Jack Sarfatti wrote:
The horizon of the black hole, indeed curved space-time,
cannot be described by micro-quantum theory that is linear and unitary
with signal locality in the presence of nonlocal entanglement. One must
use vacuum ODLRO macro-quantum theory with emergent tetrads and spin
connections from the coherent vacuum Goldstone phases that have, still
some residual virtual "exotic vacua" ZPF jitter (dark energy and dark
matter of negative and positive pressure respectively). The
Landau-Ginzburg emergent equation for the condensate is nonlinear,
nonunitary with signal nonlocality violating "sub-quantal equilibrium"
(A. Valentini) and a breakdown of the Born probability interpretation.
I knew it!
.
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| User: "Dirk Van de moortel" |
|
| Title: Re: Lenny Susskind's Oct 2006 Nature Physics paper |
02 Nov 2006 04:23:31 AM |
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"Gib Bogle" <g.bogle@auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote in message news:45493fb0$1@news.auckland.ac.nz...
Jack Sarfatti wrote:
The horizon of the black hole, indeed curved space-time, cannot be described by micro-quantum theory that is linear and unitary
with signal locality in the presence of nonlocal entanglement. One must use vacuum ODLRO macro-quantum theory with emergent
tetrads and spin connections from the coherent vacuum Goldstone phases that have, still some residual virtual "exotic vacua" ZPF
jitter (dark energy and dark matter of negative and positive pressure respectively). The Landau-Ginzburg emergent equation for
the condensate is nonlinear, nonunitary with signal nonlocality violating "sub-quantal equilibrium" (A. Valentini) and a
breakdown of the Born probability interpretation.
I knew it!
Did you?
I've become used to it now, but to me the signal
nonlocality violation of the tinywormholity came
as a real surprise.
Dirk Vdm
.
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| User: "Richard Herring" |
|
| Title: Re: Lenny Susskind's Oct 2006 Nature Physics paper |
02 Nov 2006 08:35:24 AM |
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In message <DGj2h.162090$xB2.2617436@phobos.telenet-ops.be>, Dirk Van de
moortel <dirkvandemoortel@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com> writes
"Gib Bogle" <g.bogle@auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:45493fb0$1@news.auckland.ac.nz...
Jack Sarfatti wrote:
The horizon of the black hole, indeed curved space-time, cannot be
described by micro-quantum theory that is linear and unitary
with signal locality in the presence of nonlocal entanglement. One
must use vacuum ODLRO macro-quantum theory with emergent
tetrads and spin connections from the coherent vacuum Goldstone
phases that have, still some residual virtual "exotic vacua" ZPF
jitter (dark energy and dark matter of negative and positive
pressure respectively). The Landau-Ginzburg emergent equation for
the condensate is nonlinear, nonunitary with signal nonlocality
violating "sub-quantal equilibrium" (A. Valentini) and a
breakdown of the Born probability interpretation.
I knew it!
Did you?
I've become used to it now, but to me the signal
nonlocality violation of the tinywormholity came
as a real surprise.
You must have overlooked something. If you take into consideration that
it has to be a beable, there's no contradiction.
--
Richard Herring
.
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| User: "Dirk Van de moortel" |
|
| Title: Re: Lenny Susskind's Oct 2006 Nature Physics paper |
02 Nov 2006 08:55:23 AM |
|
|
"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:$oHj63FsIgSFFw70@baesystems.com...
In message <DGj2h.162090$xB2.2617436@phobos.telenet-ops.be>, Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com>
writes
"Gib Bogle" <g.bogle@auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote in message news:45493fb0$1@news.auckland.ac.nz...
Jack Sarfatti wrote:
The horizon of the black hole, indeed curved space-time, cannot be described by micro-quantum theory that is linear and unitary
with signal locality in the presence of nonlocal entanglement. One must use vacuum ODLRO macro-quantum theory with emergent
tetrads and spin connections from the coherent vacuum Goldstone phases that have, still some residual virtual "exotic vacua"
ZPF
jitter (dark energy and dark matter of negative and positive pressure respectively). The Landau-Ginzburg emergent equation for
the condensate is nonlinear, nonunitary with signal nonlocality violating "sub-quantal equilibrium" (A. Valentini) and a
breakdown of the Born probability interpretation.
I knew it!
Did you?
I've become used to it now, but to me the signal
nonlocality violation of the tinywormholity came
as a real surprise.
You must have overlooked something. If you take into consideration that it has to be a beable, there's no contradiction.
But, but that would be cheating, wouldn't it?
You can't ignore Goldstone's generic coherence theorem
and then just *pretend* beability.
Dirk Vdm
.
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| User: "Richard Herring" |
|
| Title: Re: Lenny Susskind's Oct 2006 Nature Physics paper |
02 Nov 2006 10:22:43 AM |
|
|
In message <vFn2h.162438$Hw2.2727992@phobos.telenet-ops.be>, Dirk Van de
moortel <dirkvandemoortel@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com> writes
"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message
news:$oHj63FsIgSFFw70@baesystems.com...
In message <DGj2h.162090$xB2.2617436@phobos.telenet-ops.be>, Dirk Van
de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com>
writes
"Gib Bogle" <g.bogle@auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote in message
news:45493fb0$1@news.auckland.ac.nz...
Jack Sarfatti wrote:
The horizon of the black hole, indeed curved space-time, cannot be
described by micro-quantum theory that is linear and unitary
with signal locality in the presence of nonlocal entanglement. One
must use vacuum ODLRO macro-quantum theory with emergent
tetrads and spin connections from the coherent vacuum Goldstone
phases that have, still some residual virtual "exotic vacua"
ZPF
jitter (dark energy and dark matter of negative and positive
pressure respectively). The Landau-Ginzburg emergent equation for
the condensate is nonlinear, nonunitary with signal nonlocality
violating "sub-quantal equilibrium" (A. Valentini) and a
breakdown of the Born probability interpretation.
I knew it!
Did you?
I've become used to it now, but to me the signal
nonlocality violation of the tinywormholity came
as a real surprise.
You must have overlooked something. If you take into consideration
that it has to be a beable, there's no contradiction.
But, but that would be cheating, wouldn't it?
You can't ignore Goldstone's generic coherence theorem
and then just *pretend* beability.
Damn. I was hoping nobody would spot that.
But don't the nonlocally entangled 2-qubit spinor strings make a
difference too?
--
Richard Herring
.
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| User: "Dirk Van de moortel" |
|
| Title: Re: Lenny Susskind's Oct 2006 Nature Physics paper |
02 Nov 2006 10:51:47 AM |
|
|
"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:wa4AGcLTthSFFwIZ@baesystems.com...
In message <vFn2h.162438$Hw2.2727992@phobos.telenet-ops.be>, Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com>
writes
"Richard Herring" <junk@[127.0.0.1]> wrote in message news:$oHj63FsIgSFFw70@baesystems.com...
In message <DGj2h.162090$xB2.2617436@phobos.telenet-ops.be>, Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com>
writes
"Gib Bogle" <g.bogle@auckland.no.spam.ac.nz> wrote in message news:45493fb0$1@news.auckland.ac.nz...
Jack Sarfatti wrote:
The horizon of the black hole, indeed curved space-time, cannot be described by micro-quantum theory that is linear and
unitary
with signal locality in the presence of nonlocal entanglement. One must use vacuum ODLRO macro-quantum theory with emergent
tetrads and spin connections from the coherent vacuum Goldstone phases that have, still some residual virtual "exotic vacua"
ZPF
jitter (dark energy and dark matter of negative and positive pressure respectively). The Landau-Ginzburg emergent equation
for
the condensate is nonlinear, nonunitary with signal nonlocality violating "sub-quantal equilibrium" (A. Valentini) and a
breakdown of the Born probability interpretation.
I knew it!
Did you?
I've become used to it now, but to me the signal
nonlocality violation of the tinywormholity came
as a real surprise.
You must have overlooked something. If you take into consideration that it has to be a beable, there's no contradiction.
But, but that would be cheating, wouldn't it?
You can't ignore Goldstone's generic coherence theorem
and then just *pretend* beability.
Damn. I was hoping nobody would spot that.
But don't the nonlocally entangled 2-qubit spinor strings make a difference too?
I should have been more precise.
We're not talking about computational but about *ontological*
beability here.
But you may have a point. I'll have to investigate a bit deeper.
Dirk Vdm
.
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| User: "George Hammond" |
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| Title: Re: Lenny Susskind's Oct 2006 Nature Physics paper |
23 Nov 2006 07:26:17 PM |
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On Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:10:32 GMT, Jack Sarfatti
<sarfatti@pacbell.net> wrote:
[Sarfatti]
Another peculiarity: the observer outside the black hole sees the
infalling observer slow down as she asymptotically approaches the
horizon. This slowdown includes the freely falling observer's clocks as
well as her internal metabolism and her brain functions. Does the
infalling observer see the outside observer speed up? Not at all, the
infalling observer sees nothing out of the ordinary as she passes the
horizon — at least until she approaches the singularity.
[Hammond]
Surely this lack of any noticeable speed change of the
outside observer as seen by the infalling observer must be
occaisoned by the infalling observer's fantastic radial
velocity as she approaches R=2M. I mean.... if instead of
"infalling", she were parked in an orbit around the Black
Hole at a constant distance R=2.67M, it is a fact is it not,
that she WOULD notice the Earth turning at TWICE it's normal
speed, and all the clocks on Earth running at TWICE their
normal rates. Please correct me if I'm wrong?
========================================
SCIENTIFIC PROOF OF GOD WEBSITE
http://geocities.com/scientific_proof_of_god
mirror site:
http://proof-of-god.freewebsitehosting.com
GOD=G_uv (a folk song on mp3)
http://interrobang.jwgh.org/songs/hammond.mp3
========================================
.
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