Science > Physics > Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Brablo" |
| Date: |
27 Sep 2006 11:09:33 AM |
| Object: |
Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine |
A typical piston gas engine is about 3.0 L of internal volume. Of
course there is no upper limit to this size. However, there should be a
lower-limit to this size. I woul think that there could never be a
4-CYCLE engine that is quite small, since there would not be enough
mass/force generated to initiate the compression cycle.
What do you think?
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| User: "Sorcerer" |
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| Title: Re: Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine |
27 Sep 2006 11:34:08 AM |
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"Brablo" <gestureofrespect@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159373372.225427.326580@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
|A typical piston gas engine is about 3.0 L of internal volume. Of
| course there is no upper limit to this size. However, there should be a
| lower-limit to this size. I woul think that there could never be a
| 4-CYCLE engine that is quite small, since there would not be enough
| mass/force generated to initiate the compression cycle.
|
| What do you think?
It depends on whether you include the flywheel as part of
the engine or as load. A 4-cylinder engine needs a smaller
flywheel than a one-lung. A V-8 does even better.
If you want high torque, low RPM use a long stroke,
high acceleration and high RPM use an oversquare.
Androcles
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| User: "Brablo" |
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| Title: Re: Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine |
27 Sep 2006 02:55:31 PM |
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Assume that you want to include the flywheel and crankshaft. Then how
small is the engine?
| What do you think?
It depends on whether you include the flywheel as part of
the engine or as load. A 4-cylinder engine needs a smaller
flywheel than a one-lung. A V-8 does even better.
If you want high torque, low RPM use a long stroke,
high acceleration and high RPM use an oversquare.
Androcles
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| User: "Frieta" |
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| Title: Re: Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine |
27 Sep 2006 06:14:32 PM |
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"Brablo" <gestureofrespect@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159386931.773682.148370@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Assume that you want to include the flywheel and crankshaft. Then how
small is the engine?
| What do you think?
It depends on whether you include the flywheel as part of
the engine or as load. A 4-cylinder engine needs a smaller
flywheel than a one-lung. A V-8 does even better.
If you want high torque, low RPM use a long stroke,
high acceleration and high RPM use an oversquare.
Androcles
many a Lawn mower has 5 or 8 HP 4 cycle, 1/4 liter
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| User: "Brablo" |
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| Title: Re: Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine |
28 Sep 2006 08:58:54 AM |
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I've seen 4-cycle engines that are 100 CC. They are typically found in
Hero Honda Motorcycles in South Asia.
Androcles
many a Lawn mower has 5 or 8 HP 4 cycle, 1/4 liter
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine |
27 Sep 2006 08:45:03 PM |
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Brablo <gestureofrespect@yahoo.com> wrote:
A typical piston gas engine is about 3.0 L of internal volume. Of
course there is no upper limit to this size. However, there should be a
lower-limit to this size. I woul think that there could never be a
4-CYCLE engine that is quite small, since there would not be enough
mass/force generated to initiate the compression cycle.
What do you think?
Is a 4 cylinder, 4 cycle, 0.061 cubic inch engine small enough for you?
http://www.minimodelengines.com/Feature4C.htm
The same guy also built a 5 cylinder, 4 cycle radial with the same
displacement.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine |
27 Sep 2006 10:25:22 PM |
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Brablo wrote:
A typical piston gas engine is about 3.0 L of internal volume. Of
course there is no upper limit to this size. However, there should be a
lower-limit to this size. I woul think that there could never be a
4-CYCLE engine that is quite small, since there would not be enough
mass/force generated to initiate the compression cycle.
What do you think?
Well, you're right, but for the wrong reason,
Since the lower size limit on ANY fuel mixture,
no matter what type of cycle it is, s
limited by the spring stiffness of the fuel injectors,
not the thermocycle.
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine |
27 Sep 2006 03:21:06 PM |
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Brablo wrote:
there could never be a 4-CYCLE engine that is quite small,
[hanson]
What is "quite small"?. There are plenty engines that are
100+ times smaller than your 3000 cc. They are commercially
available. See below. The notion in your last sentence is
dubious since you can always imitate the start by external
means.
see: D-STAR Engineering Corporation, or see:
http://www.thirtythousandfeet.com/rc.htm#engines
http://www.mecoa.com/index1.htm
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3819/is_200009/ai_n8909610
http://www.robinamerica.com/engines/class.lasso?Class=Micro
Examples: (by all means not the samllest ones)
4-stroke engine:
Displacement 24.5 (cc)
Bore x Stroke 34 x 27 (mm)
Max HP/RPM 1.1/7000
Dry Wt lbs 6
or 2 stroke engine:
Displacement-1.60ci (26cc);
bore-1.32 inches (33.6mm);
stroke-1.16 inches (29.6mm);
practical rpm-1,800 to 10,000;
output-3.7hp at 9,000rpm;
weight-32.6 ounces (925g).
"Brablo" <gestureofrespect@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1159373372.225427.326580@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
A typical piston gas engine is about 3.0 L of internal volume. Of
course there is no upper limit to this size. However, there should be a
lower-limit to this size. I woul think that there could never be a
4-CYCLE engine that is quite small, since there would not be enough
mass/force generated to initiate the compression cycle.
What do you think?
.
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| User: "Sorcerer" |
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| Title: Re: Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine |
27 Sep 2006 06:39:00 PM |
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"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:S2BSg.3370$Kw1.966@trnddc05...
| Brablo wrote:
| >there could never be a 4-CYCLE engine that is quite small,
| >
| [hanson]
| What is "quite small"?. There are plenty engines that are
| 100+ times smaller than your 3000 cc. They are commercially
| available. See below. The notion in your last sentence is
| dubious since you can always imitate the start by external
| means.
|
| see: D-STAR Engineering Corporation, or see:
| http://www.thirtythousandfeet.com/rc.htm#engines
| http://www.mecoa.com/index1.htm
| http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3819/is_200009/ai_n8909610
| http://www.robinamerica.com/engines/class.lasso?Class=Micro
| Examples: (by all means not the samllest ones)
| 4-stroke engine:
| Displacement 24.5 (cc)
That's weed wacker size, enough to power a pedal bicycle.
I think he wants something smaller, he seems to have
a problem with the kick start on a 1956 vintage Harley.
A friend of mine made a steam engine with a 1/8" bore
and 1/2" throw, 1 stroke. It was pretty much like this:
http://tinyurl.com/k5pfe
I saw it run on compressed air.
These were around when I was a kid:
http://tinyurl.com/ms76g
Androcles
| Bore x Stroke 34 x 27 (mm)
| Max HP/RPM 1.1/7000
| Dry Wt lbs 6
|
| or 2 stroke engine:
| Displacement-1.60ci (26cc);
| bore-1.32 inches (33.6mm);
| stroke-1.16 inches (29.6mm);
| practical rpm-1,800 to 10,000;
| output-3.7hp at 9,000rpm;
| weight-32.6 ounces (925g).
| >
|
| "Brablo" <gestureofrespect@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:1159373372.225427.326580@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
| >A typical piston gas engine is about 3.0 L of internal volume. Of
| > course there is no upper limit to this size. However, there should be a
| > lower-limit to this size. I woul think that there could never be a
| > 4-CYCLE engine that is quite small, since there would not be enough
| > mass/force generated to initiate the compression cycle.
| >
| > What do you think?
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| User: "tj Frazir" |
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| Title: Re: Lower size limits of the internal combustion engine |
27 Sep 2006 03:31:59 PM |
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Pistons rods and cranks are stupid.
Water pistons with 40 inch stroke per sec is 1/22 the stroke per sec.
24 inch sliding vane rotor is 12 R at 760 psi
steam driven water pistons.
1000 rpm 1000 foot pounds or 2000 foot pounds at 500 rpm or 4000 foot
pounds at 250 rpm .
A crank is only 2 inch at 90 deg .
The top and bottom of a piston stroke is worthless because the lever is
so short at tdc the crank is at center and has no lever distance to
crank with.
1 cylinder is 2600 pounds of thrust aganst 1 ton . a crank and rod
will convert it to 100 foot pounds .
OH no fucking parts at all beet the ICE .
twin water rockets on rocket fuel and 150 psi intake air 4 inch 44 inch
strokes with o2 boost beats the fucking crap out of evrything.
evry sec one cylinder blast its water out.
Like a jet ski with a 2 inch nozel but not at 120 psi at 1000 psi.
2000 pound thrust max.
fire 4 at once is 8000 fucking pounds for 1 sec.
A 400 pound jet ski is gone gone gone and nozel nav.
The navigator
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