Science > Physics > Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz?
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Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Radium" |
| Date: |
17 Jun 2007 05:18:52 PM |
| Object: |
Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
Hi:
What is the minimum amount of photons-per-second needed for a 150 KHz
AM radio carrier wave to transmit audio signals? 20,000-photons-per-
second?
Thanks,
Radium
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| User: "Sue..." |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
17 Jun 2007 05:36:10 PM |
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On Jun 17, 7:18 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What is the minimum amount of photons-per-second needed for a 150 KHz
AM radio carrier wave to transmit audio signals? 20,000-photons-per-
second?
Thanks,
Radium
Zero
http://nobelprize.org/physics/articles/ekspong/index.html
Sue...
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| User: "Karl Uppiano" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
24 Jun 2007 04:25:28 PM |
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"Sue..." <suzysewnshow@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1182119770.008649.310590@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 17, 7:18 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi:
What is the minimum amount of photons-per-second needed for a 150 KHz
AM radio carrier wave to transmit audio signals? 20,000-photons-per-
second?
Thanks,
Radium
Zero
http://nobelprize.org/physics/articles/ekspong/index.html
A single photon could possess the energy corresponding to 150 KHz. But
amplitude modulation is continuously varying, so you do need to produce a
stream of photons in varying quantities (power) to represent an audio
signal.
Since photons are a quantum phenomenon, I suspect that one could compare the
number of photons per second to the required number of bits per second
necessary to transmit digital audio. For CD audio, that corresponds to 44.1
samples per second, at 16 bits per sample, or 705.6 Kbps per channel. Since
photons power adds linearly, not by powers of two, as do bits, the number
photons would be the numeric value of the bits, not the bit count itself. So
2^16 * 44.1 = 2.89e6 photons per second per channel is the minimum required
for CD quality AM audio.
I don't take Radium seriously, but this is an interesting question.
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| User: "Radium" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
25 Jun 2007 02:14:15 PM |
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On Jun 24, 2:25 pm, "Karl Uppiano" <karl.uppi...@verizon.net> wrote:
A single photon could possess the energy corresponding to 150 KHz. But
amplitude modulation is continuously varying, so you do need to produce a
stream of photons in varying quantities (power) to represent an audio
signal.
Since photons are a quantum phenomenon, I suspect that one could compare the
number of photons per second to the required number of bits per second
necessary to transmit digital audio. For CD audio, that corresponds to 44.1
samples per second, at 16 bits per sample, or 705.6 Kbps per channel. Since
photons power adds linearly, not by powers of two, as do bits, the number
photons would be the numeric value of the bits, not the bit count itself. So
2^16 * 44.1 = 2.89e6 photons per second per channel is the minimum required
for CD quality AM audio.
Thanks for your input.
2.89e6 photons per second it is.
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| User: "Salmon Egg" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
25 Jun 2007 01:31:37 AM |
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This theory has been developed in great detail. The required photon rate is
proportional to the signal bandwidth and also depends on the desired average
signal-to-noise ratio. Books on optical communication cover this.
I doubt that anyone here would be willing to rewrite a book. Go to the
library even if it is not digital or on-line. They still exist.
Bill
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| User: "Karl Uppiano" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
25 Jun 2007 02:04:50 AM |
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"Salmon Egg" <salmonegg@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:C2A4AF59.82650%salmonegg@sbcglobal.net...
This theory has been developed in great detail. The required photon rate
is
proportional to the signal bandwidth and also depends on the desired
average
signal-to-noise ratio. Books on optical communication cover this.
I doubt that anyone here would be willing to rewrite a book. Go to the
library even if it is not digital or on-line. They still exist.
Sorry if I wasted anyone's time. I was answering a question that I realized
too late was cross-posted here. And my answer did basically cover bandwidth
and dynamic range. The original post was actually an idiotic question about
how many photons per second a hypothetical AM radio transmitter would have
to send out. Of course, the color (frequency) doesn't matter. And at
thousands of watts, most radio stations transmit far more than the bare
minimum required. Having said that, the inverse square law might quickly
reduce the number to the bare minimum at the receiver, assuming a spherical
radiation pattern.
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| User: "Salmon Egg" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
25 Jun 2007 04:02:03 PM |
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On 6/25/07 12:04 AM, in article mOJfi.4462$G85.2242@trndny08, "Karl Uppiano"
<karl.uppiano@verizon.net> wrote:
Sorry if I wasted anyone's time. I was answering a question that I realized
too late was cross-posted here. And my answer did basically cover bandwidth
and dynamic range. The original post was actually an idiotic question about
how many photons per second a hypothetical AM radio transmitter would have
to send out. Of course, the color (frequency) doesn't matter. And at
thousands of watts, most radio stations transmit far more than the bare
minimum required. Having said that, the inverse square law might quickly
reduce the number to the bare minimum at the receiver, assuming a spherical
radiation pattern.
I do agree that the original poster is idiotic or at least pernicious. A try
not to feed him. but sometimes he outrages me so much that I bite anyway. It
is like a fish hitting a dare-devil lure in frustration even though it
resembles nothing edible.
Bill
--
Iraq: About three Virginia Techs a month
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| User: "gravman" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
17 Jun 2007 10:25:06 PM |
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"Sue..." <suzysewnshow@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:1182119770.008649.310590@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Jun 17, 7:18 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
What is the minimum amount of photons-per-second needed for a 150 KHz
AM radio carrier wave to transmit audio signals? 20,000-photons-per-
second?
Zero
http://nobelprize.org/physics/articles/ekspong/index.html
Sue...
See also the Nobel Prize winners of 2005
"One Hundred Years of Light Quanta"...
http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/2005/index.html
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| User: "Paul Cardinale" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
17 Jun 2007 09:43:39 PM |
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Radium wrote:
Hi:
What is the minimum amount of photons-per-second needed for a 150 KHz
AM radio carrier wave to transmit audio signals? 20,000-photons-per-
second?
Thanks,
Radium
Nobody cares about your obsessions with the absurd.
Paul Cardinale
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| User: "Radium" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
17 Jun 2007 10:12:30 PM |
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On Jun 17, 7:43 pm, Paul Cardinale <pcardin...@volcanomail.com> wrote:
Nobody cares about your obsessions with the absurd.
Speaking of absurd...
If I could hear astronomically-weak magnetic signals as weak as
10^-1,000,000,000 W/m^2 - between 20 to 20,000 Hz - what would I most
likely hear?
My guess is that would hear the sounds emitted from magnetars -
located around billions of billions of miles away from Earth. These
sounds would resemble the 2nd set of sounds played by the Emergency
Alert System - i.e. the high-pitched, terrifying, psychedelic,
heterodyne-like tones. Such tones put listeners in a dissociative
psychological state resembling a drug trip or a flashback of pre-
toddler life at or before 2.5 years of age.
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| User: "Eric Gisse" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
17 Jun 2007 10:46:39 PM |
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On Jun 17, 7:12 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 17, 7:43 pm, Paul Cardinale <pcardin...@volcanomail.com> wrote:
Nobody cares about your obsessions with the absurd.
Speaking of absurd...
NOBODY CARES. STOP POSTING.
[...]
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| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
18 Jun 2007 12:31:33 AM |
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Eric Gisse wrote:
On Jun 17, 7:12 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 17, 7:43 pm, Paul Cardinale <pcardin...@volcanomail.com> wrote:
Nobody cares about your obsessions with the absurd.
Speaking of absurd...
NOBODY CARES. STOP POSTING.
Good luck Eric. The same could be said for you.......
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| User: "Y.Porat" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
18 Jun 2007 10:32:46 PM |
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On Jun 18, 8:31 am, Dan Bloomquist <publi...@lakeweb.com> wrote:
Eric Gisse wrote:
On Jun 17, 7:12 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 17, 7:43 pm, Paul Cardinale <pcardin...@volcanomail.com> wrote:
Nobody cares about your obsessions with the absurd.
Speaking of absurd...
NOBODY CARES. STOP POSTING.
Good luck Eric. The same could be said for you.......
--------------
well said !!
Y.Porat
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| User: "Paul Cardinale" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
18 Jun 2007 01:47:03 PM |
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On Jun 17, 8:12 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 17, 7:43 pm, Paul Cardinale <pcardin...@volcanomail.com> wrote:
Nobody cares about your obsessions with the absurd.
Speaking of absurd...
If I could hear astronomically-weak magnetic signals as weak as
10^-1,000,000,000 W/m^2 - between 20 to 20,000 Hz - what would I most
likely hear?
My guess is that would hear the sounds emitted from magnetars -
located around billions of billions of miles away from Earth. These
sounds would resemble the 2nd set of sounds played by the Emergency
Alert System - i.e. the high-pitched, terrifying, psychedelic,
heterodyne-like tones. Such tones put listeners in a dissociative
psychological state resembling a drug trip or a flashback of pre-
toddler life at or before 2.5 years of age.
Take your meds and the sounds will go away.
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| User: "Radium" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
18 Jun 2007 07:54:55 PM |
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Even more absurd...
If I could hear - within my left cochlea -- magnetic signals as
distant as 10^1,000,000,000 [10-to-the-power-1-billion] knots* away -
between 20 to 20,000 Hz - what would I most likely hear?
My guess is that would hear the sounds emitted from magnetars. These
sounds would resemble the 2nd set of sounds played by the Emergency
Alert System - i.e. the high-pitched, terrifying, psychedelic,
heterodyne-like tones. Such tones put listeners in a dissociative
psychological state resembling a drug trip or a flashback of pre-
toddler life at or before 2.5 years of age.
*1 knot is more than 1 mile so I used knots as my preferred unit
instead of miles
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
18 Jun 2007 10:15:02 PM |
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In sci.physics.electromag Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip idiocy>
*1 knot is more than 1 mile so I used knots as my preferred unit
instead of miles
A "knot" is a measure of speed moron.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "Radium" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
20 Jun 2007 02:38:54 PM |
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On Jun 18, 8:15 pm, wrote:
A "knot" is a measure of speed moron.
Okay. In that case:
If I could hear - within my left cochlea -- magnetic signals as
distant as 10^1,000,000,000-to-the-power-10^1,000,000,000 nautical-
miles upward away from [i.e. above] me -- between 20 to 20,000 Hz --
what would I most likely hear?
My guess is that would hear -- from my left ear -- the sounds emitted
from magnetars. These sounds would resemble the 2nd set of sounds
played by the Emergency Alert System - i.e. the high-pitched,
terrifying, psychedelic, heterodyne-like, sine-wave tones. Such tones
put listeners in a dissociative psychological state resembling a drug
trip or a flashback of pre-toddler life at or before 2.5 years of age.
Such sounds remind me of my first house in Stamford, Connecticut. I
was 2.5 when my parents and me moved out of that house.
10^1,000,000,000-to-the-power-10^1,000,000,000 -- now that is one
large large number.
10^1,000,000,000 = 10-to-the-power-1,000,000,000
So you get:
(10-to-the-power-1,000,000,000) to the power (10-to-the-
power-1,000,000,000)
That is (10-to-the-power-1,000,000,000) to the power (10-to-the-
power-1,000,000,000) nautical miles above me.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
20 Jun 2007 02:55:03 PM |
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In sci.physics.electromag Radium <glucegen1@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 18, 8:15 pm, wrote:
A "knot" is a measure of speed moron.
Okay. In that case:
If I could hear - within my left cochlea -- magnetic signals as
distant as 10^1,000,000,000-to-the-power-10^1,000,000,000 nautical-
miles upward away from [i.e. above] me -- between 20 to 20,000 Hz --
what would I most likely hear?
One hand clapping.
--
Jim Pennino
Remove .spam.sux to reply.
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| User: "Eric Gisse" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
20 Jun 2007 04:17:55 PM |
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On Jun 20, 11:38 am, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 18, 8:15 pm, wrote:
A "knot" is a measure of speed moron.
Okay. In that case:
If I could hear - within my left cochlea -- magnetic signals as
distant as 10^1,000,000,000-to-the-power-10^1,000,000,000 nautical-
miles upward away from [i.e. above] me -- between 20 to 20,000 Hz --
what would I most likely hear?
NOTHING, you ignorant *****. Did you just learn about scientific
notation in school?
[snip stupidity]
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| User: "Eric Gisse" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
18 Jun 2007 09:01:23 PM |
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On Jun 18, 4:54 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Even more absurd...
Go away.
[...]
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| User: "Y.Porat" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
18 Jun 2007 10:34:46 PM |
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On Jun 19, 5:01 am, Eric Gisse <jowr...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 18, 4:54 pm, Radium <gluceg...@gmail.com> wrote:
Even more absurd...
Go away.
[...]
-----------
th e little Nazi undergradiuate
23 years boy *****
nominated himsef as a moderator of this ng s
Y.Porat
----------------
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| User: "Paul Cardinale" |
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| Title: Re: Minimum amount of photons-per-second required for 150 KHz? |
19 Jun 2007 09:14:30 PM |
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Radium wrote:
Even more absurd...
If I could hear - within my left cochlea -- magnetic signals as
distant as 10^1,000,000,000 [10-to-the-power-1-billion] knots* away -
between 20 to 20,000 Hz - what would I most likely hear?
Depends on how long since you took your last dose.
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