Science > Physics > Molecular / Atomic structure of matter inside a black hole
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Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Ravindra" |
| Date: |
13 Apr 2006 03:30:43 AM |
| Object: |
Molecular / Atomic structure of matter inside a black hole |
Wondering how the molecular / atomic structure of the matter inside the
black hole would look like. Would like to know if there were any
experimental / theoretical insights into this already from the physics
community?
Since huge mass is packed into a very small volume, I dont think any of
the existing atomic structures / molecular structures that we are aware
of would give rise to such high density packing of matter. Wondering if
the packing of such high density matter would be at a sub-atomic
particles level / even more deeper. Also wondering if this is the case,
then quantum mechanics still holds because the sub-atomic particles
will be so densely packed that we need a completely different theory
altogether to explain such dense matter atomically!
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| User: "LawsonE" |
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| Title: Re: Molecular / Atomic structure of matter inside a black hole |
13 Apr 2006 05:37:44 AM |
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"Ravindra" <kmsravindra@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1144917043.146895.196160@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Wondering how the molecular / atomic structure of the matter inside the
black hole would look like. Would like to know if there were any
experimental / theoretical insights into this already from the physics
community?
Since huge mass is packed into a very small volume, I dont think any of
the existing atomic structures / molecular structures that we are aware
of would give rise to such high density packing of matter. Wondering if
the packing of such high density matter would be at a sub-atomic
particles level / even more deeper. Also wondering if this is the case,
then quantum mechanics still holds because the sub-atomic particles
will be so densely packed that we need a completely different theory
altogether to explain such dense matter atomically!
With a smallish black hole, atomic structure or even sub-atomic structure
might not survive getting close to or crossing the event horizon. With
really large black holes, you might not even notice you crossed the event
horizon and still continue reading your book or whatever. With
charged/rotating black holes, this issue is waaay to complicated for me to
think about. At the singularity, things get complicated enough that you need
to consult Hawking and friends for more info and they can't agree past a
certain point, or so I've heard.
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| User: "tj Frazir" |
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| Title: Re: Molecular / Atomic structure of matter inside a black hole |
13 Apr 2006 01:35:58 PM |
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Just like the edge of the visible universe .
A star 14 billion light years away ejects a photon at c at one point in
space.
No two points in space are at the same time.
No two points are in the same place.
c is constant and time dont change .
But yet that point is a strait line .
A strait line is MORE then 1 point and places somthing in more then 1
place at once.
Time is a strait line as no two points in space are at the same time.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Molecular / Atomic structure of matter inside a black hole |
13 Apr 2006 08:40:14 AM |
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Ravindra wrote:
Wondering how the molecular / atomic structure of the matter inside the
black hole would look like. Would like to know if there were any
experimental / theoretical insights into this already from the physics
community?
Gravity collapses everything into a mathematical point.
All stars are "held up" against the inward pull of gravity
by radiation and pressure due to high temperature from
thermonuclear fusion going on in the star's core. When
all fusion creases, gravity wins
There are four (4) fates for the end of stars depending on their masses
and the masses of their cores:
Red/Brown Dwarfs - less than 0.6 Ms <== Main Sequence 0.01-0.8 Ms
Stars less than about 0.6 solar masses, when nuclear fuel is used up,
gravitational collapse shrinks the star, but no more than the gas
temperature-pressure-volume laws of classical physics allow. We have
not found any white dwarf less massive than 0.6 solar masses. Part of
the answer is that the universe may not be old enough for lower mass
stars to have evolved off the main sequence.
White Dwarfs - 0.6 and 1.4 Ms <== Main Sequence 0.8-10 Ms
Stars with core masses between 0.6 and 1.4 solar masses are
destined to become white dwarfs. White dwarfs are degenerate matter.
Further collapse is halted by electron degeneracy pressure. See pages
456-459 in your textbook. The vast majority of stars are in this mass
range and are destined to become white dwarfs
Neutron Stars - 1.4 and 2.9 Ms <== Main Sequence 10-30 Ms
Core masses between 1.4 and 2.9 solar masses overcome electron
degeneracy pressure and collapse to form neutron stars, a star that is
essentially one gigantic nucleus. Further collapse is halted by neutron
degeneracy pressure.
Black Holes - 3 or more Ms <== Main Sequence > 30 Ms
But for cores with mass of 3 or more solar masses, neutron
degeneracy pressure does not stop the collapse and the star becomes a
black hole with zero physical size, but with all the mass. Gravity
really wins!
In each case, gravity eventually wins, but, to what extent is
determined by the mass and the relative pressures of the quantum
mechanical forces, electron and neutron degeneracy pressure.
See: http://www.astronomynotes.com/evolutn/s1.htm
http://www.eclipse.net/~cmmiller/BH/blkmain.html
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| User: "ma1ibu" |
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| Title: Re: Molecular / Atomic structure of matter inside a black hole |
13 Apr 2006 09:36:35 AM |
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"Gravity collapses everything into a mathematical point."
sayeth Sam.
Where do I begin?
Sam says when things get small enough
they become cyphers.
Anyone else think this?
John
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Molecular / Atomic structure of matter inside a black hole |
13 Apr 2006 09:43:46 AM |
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ma1ibu wrote:
Sam says when things get small enough
they become cyphers.
No--Here's what I wrote:
Gravity collapses everything into a mathematical point.
All stars are "held up" against the inward pull of gravity
by radiation and pressure due to high temperature from
thermonuclear fusion going on in the star's core. When
all fusion creases, gravity wins
There are four (4) fates for the end of stars depending on their masses
and the masses of their cores:
Red/Brown Dwarfs - less than 0.6 Ms <== Main Sequence 0.01-0.8 Ms
Stars less than about 0.6 solar masses, when nuclear fuel is used up,
gravitational collapse shrinks the star, but no more than the gas
temperature-pressure-volume laws of classical physics allow. We have
not found any white dwarf less massive than 0.6 solar masses. Part of
the answer is that the universe may not be old enough for lower mass
stars to have evolved off the main sequence.
White Dwarfs - 0.6 and 1.4 Ms <== Main Sequence 0.8-10 Ms
Stars with core masses between 0.6 and 1.4 solar masses are
destined to become white dwarfs. White dwarfs are degenerate matter.
Further collapse is halted by electron degeneracy pressure. See pages
456-459 in your textbook. The vast majority of stars are in this mass
range and are destined to become white dwarfs
Neutron Stars - 1.4 and 2.9 Ms <== Main Sequence 10-30 Ms
Core masses between 1.4 and 2.9 solar masses overcome electron
degeneracy pressure and collapse to form neutron stars, a star that is
essentially one gigantic nucleus. Further collapse is halted by neutron
degeneracy pressure.
Black Holes - 3 or more Ms <== Main Sequence > 30 Ms
But for cores with mass of 3 or more solar masses, neutron
degeneracy pressure does not stop the collapse and the star becomes a
black hole with zero physical size, but with all the mass. Gravity
really wins!
In each case, gravity eventually wins, but, to what extent is
determined by the mass and the relative pressures of the quantum
mechanical forces, electron and neutron degeneracy pressure.
See: http://www.astronomynotes.com/evolutn/s1.htm
http://www.eclipse.net/~cmmiller/BH/blkmain.html
.
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