More On My H-aether Theory



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: ""
Date: 30 Aug 2003 03:57:21 PM
Object: More On My H-aether Theory
To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I invite
constructive comments on the following.
Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid might
under the same circumstances.
Consider that you are in remote space equipped with an air bottle.
You open the nozzle for a brief period. What happens?
The air escapes with an average velocity determined by the pressure inside the
bottle. Air molecules collide inside the nozzle itself and so emerge with
component velocities in directions other than straight ahead.
Before very long, the probability of further collisions decreases rapidly and
the molecules travel essentially in straight lines for considerable distances.
Eventually, the occasional collision with the very low density molcules of
space causes them to equilibrate with whatever local conditions they happen to
be passing through. Their initial momentum has been absorbed by the molecules
of space.
In the case of a water jet, the dispersion is not as immediate as with a gas,
presumably because of surface tension. It is not until the jet evaporates that
dispersion takes place. The higher the initial speed, the lower the relative
dispersion.
Similarly, light does not disperse rapidly because of its extreme forward
speed. The likelihood of lateral photon collisions is very low, particularly if
their initial speed is constant (almost?) wrt their source.
However, like the air molecules, all the photons emitted in a particular pulse
will eventually interact with the 'gas' of photons in space and settle down to
'local conditions'. This individual fields that make up this photon gas
collectively constitute the 'H-aether', which is by no means isotropic and can
be regarded as possing turbulence, pressure and density gradients like, for
instance, our upper atmosphere.
As far as we know, however, light is not influenced by the passage of other
light through it. However, experiments that have investigated this possibility
have been in the lab and over short ranges. I doubt if anyone has really looked
seriously into the way in which light might react with other light particularly
at very low intensities.
You can laugh at my theory if you like but it seems to offer a few answers that
others cannot and fits the evidence pretty well.
Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.

User: "Paul B. Andersen"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 01 Sep 2003 04:40:41 AM
"HenriWilson" <Henri@the.edge> skrev i melding news:8sq4lvsomelpv78jedk2bbo579q6ltt8o4@4ax.com...

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:19:57 +0200, "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@hia.no>
wrote:


"HenriWilson" <Henri@the.edge> skrev i melding news:6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com...

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I invite
constructive comments on the following.

[snip]

Henri Wilson.


A constructive suggestion:
Don't inhale more of the hallucinogen H-aether.


So what is wrong with the basic theory?

Is it anything wrong with it?
I wouldn't know. I am to modest to think that I can
find errors in your world shattering theory.
My point was only to warn you about the hallucinogen
you used when you got your revelation.
Paul
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 01 Sep 2003 07:13:58 PM
On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 11:40:41 +0200, "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@hia.no>
wrote:


"HenriWilson" <Henri@the.edge> skrev i melding news:8sq4lvsomelpv78jedk2bbo579q6ltt8o4@4ax.com...

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:19:57 +0200, "Paul B. Andersen" <paul.b.andersen@hia.no>
wrote:


"HenriWilson" <Henri@the.edge> skrev i melding news:6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com...

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I invite
constructive comments on the following.

[snip]

Henri Wilson.


A constructive suggestion:
Don't inhale more of the hallucinogen H-aether.


So what is wrong with the basic theory?


Is it anything wrong with it?
I wouldn't know. I am to modest to think that I can
find errors in your world shattering theory.

My point was only to warn you about the hallucinogen
you used when you got your revelation.

You mean the Cabinet-Sauvignon?


Paul

Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.


User: "Double-A"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 01 Sep 2003 01:04:16 PM
Henri@the.edge(HenriWilson) wrote in message news:<6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com>...

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I invite
constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid might
under the same circumstances.

Consider that you are in remote space equipped with an air bottle.
You open the nozzle for a brief period. What happens?

The air escapes with an average velocity determined by the pressure inside the
bottle. Air molecules collide inside the nozzle itself and so emerge with
component velocities in directions other than straight ahead.

Before very long, the probability of further collisions decreases rapidly and
the molecules travel essentially in straight lines for considerable distances.
Eventually, the occasional collision with the very low density molcules of
space causes them to equilibrate with whatever local conditions they happen to
be passing through. Their initial momentum has been absorbed by the molecules
of space.

In the case of a water jet, the dispersion is not as immediate as with a gas,
presumably because of surface tension. It is not until the jet evaporates that
dispersion takes place. The higher the initial speed, the lower the relative
dispersion.

Similarly, light does not disperse rapidly because of its extreme forward
speed. The likelihood of lateral photon collisions is very low, particularly if
their initial speed is constant (almost?) wrt their source.

However, like the air molecules, all the photons emitted in a particular pulse
will eventually interact with the 'gas' of photons in space and settle down to
'local conditions'. This individual fields that make up this photon gas
collectively constitute the 'H-aether', which is by no means isotropic and can
be regarded as possing turbulence, pressure and density gradients like, for
instance, our upper atmosphere.

As far as we know, however, light is not influenced by the passage of other
light through it. However, experiments that have investigated this possibility
have been in the lab and over short ranges. I doubt if anyone has really looked
seriously into the way in which light might react with other light particularly
at very low intensities.

You can laugh at my theory if you like but it seems to offer a few answers that
others cannot and fits the evidence pretty well.

Henri Wilson.

See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm

Ah, the smell of the Haether in bloom, reminds me of the highlands of
me native Sco'land!
Were's me Dewers?
Double-A
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 01 Sep 2003 07:16:16 PM
On 1 Sep 2003 11:04:16 -0700,
(Double-A) wrote:

Henri@the.edge(HenriWilson) wrote in message news:<6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com>...

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I invite
constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid might
under the same circumstances.

Consider that you are in remote space equipped with an air bottle.
You open the nozzle for a brief period. What happens?

The air escapes with an average velocity determined by the pressure inside the
bottle. Air molecules collide inside the nozzle itself and so emerge with
component velocities in directions other than straight ahead.

Before very long, the probability of further collisions decreases rapidly and
the molecules travel essentially in straight lines for considerable distances.
Eventually, the occasional collision with the very low density molcules of
space causes them to equilibrate with whatever local conditions they happen to
be passing through. Their initial momentum has been absorbed by the molecules
of space.

In the case of a water jet, the dispersion is not as immediate as with a gas,
presumably because of surface tension. It is not until the jet evaporates that
dispersion takes place. The higher the initial speed, the lower the relative
dispersion.

Similarly, light does not disperse rapidly because of its extreme forward
speed. The likelihood of lateral photon collisions is very low, particularly if
their initial speed is constant (almost?) wrt their source.

However, like the air molecules, all the photons emitted in a particular pulse
will eventually interact with the 'gas' of photons in space and settle down to
'local conditions'. This individual fields that make up this photon gas
collectively constitute the 'H-aether', which is by no means isotropic and can
be regarded as possing turbulence, pressure and density gradients like, for
instance, our upper atmosphere.

As far as we know, however, light is not influenced by the passage of other
light through it. However, experiments that have investigated this possibility
have been in the lab and over short ranges. I doubt if anyone has really looked
seriously into the way in which light might react with other light particularly
at very low intensities.

You can laugh at my theory if you like but it seems to offer a few answers that
others cannot and fits the evidence pretty well.

Henri Wilson.

See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm



Ah, the smell of the Haether in bloom, reminds me of the highlands of
me native Sco'land!

Were's me Dewers?

You forgot the syphon -- er, I mean the hyphen.
'H-aether' ... meaning 'Henri's aether'.


Double-A

Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.


User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 31 Aug 2003 01:21:05 PM
HenriWilson wrote:


To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I invite
constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid might
under the same circumstances.

[snip]
Hey stooopid Henri Wilson, what is the Reynolds number of a light
beam?
http://w0rli.home.att.net/youare.swf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sunshine.jpg
It's not every fucking imbecile who can violate quantum mechanics,
relativity, and classical physics in fewer than 50 words. Wait... it
*is* every fucking imbecile who can violate quantum mechanics,
relativity, and classical physics in fewer than 50 words.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 31 Aug 2003 04:45:58 PM
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 11:21:05 -0700, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:

HenriWilson wrote:


To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I invite
constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid might
under the same circumstances.

[snip]

Hey stooopid Henri Wilson, what is the Reynolds number of a light
beam?

http://w0rli.home.att.net/youare.swf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sunshine.jpg

It's not every fucking imbecile who can violate quantum mechanics,
relativity, and classical physics in fewer than 50 words. Wait... it
*is* every fucking imbecile who can violate quantum mechanics,
relativity, and classical physics in fewer than 50 words.

Does that mean I can violate my neighbour's 16yo daughter?
Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.


User: "YBM"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 31 Aug 2003 08:19:15 PM
HenriWilson wrote:
[snip usual crap]

See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm

Here is a very wyse advice on computer animation and
the fallacy it can easily illustrates :
" We should always be suspicious of computer animations,
for while they look impressive, they may very well be
constructed on mathematical models the programmer assumes,
but which may not be the ones which nature uses. This animation
of the overbalanced wheel is unphysical in several respects.
Can you identify its errors? "
the animation is :
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/obw1Xs.gif
(from : http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/home.htm )
After a year I suggested it to you, stupid Henry, you'd
never had a though about what kind of physical model
a computer "canvas" impose if you use it blindly ?
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 01 Sep 2003 03:30:36 AM
On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 03:19:15 +0200, YBM <ybmess@nooos.fr> wrote:

HenriWilson wrote:
[snip usual crap]

See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm


Here is a very wyse advice on computer animation and
the fallacy it can easily illustrates :

" We should always be suspicious of computer animations,
for while they look impressive, they may very well be
constructed on mathematical models the programmer assumes,
but which may not be the ones which nature uses. This animation
of the overbalanced wheel is unphysical in several respects.
Can you identify its errors? "

the animation is :

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/obw1Xs.gif

Of course I can.
I would not design a simulation like that. It is nowhere near the truth.
It takes no account of the bob's momentum at the bottom and ignores the
directional component of the gravity force.
It is stupid.
I could do it properly if I had the time and inclination.


(from : http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/home.htm )

After a year I suggested it to you, stupid Henry, you'd
never had a thought about what kind of physical model
a computer "canvas" impose if you use it blindly ?

My models don't have errors.
Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.
User: "Bilge"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 01 Sep 2003 01:41:13 PM
HenriWilson:

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 03:19:15 +0200, YBM <ybmess@nooos.fr> wrote:

After a year I suggested it to you, stupid Henry, you'd
never had a thought about what kind of physical model
a computer "canvas" impose if you use it blindly ?


My models don't have errors.

Henry, your models represent nature about as well as a
paint-by-the-numbers pad represents the paintings in
the louvre.
.



User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 31 Aug 2003 11:00:11 AM
In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:57:21 GMT
<6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com>:

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I invite
constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected
into empty space behaves in much the same way as a fine,
high speed jet of gas or liquid might under the same
circumstances.

Consider that you are in remote space equipped with an air bottle.
You open the nozzle for a brief period. What happens?

Even in light of my relative ignorance of the flight
dynamics of a bumblebee, airplane, balloon, or rocket, I
can nevertheless point out some problems with this analogy;
the single biggest one is that the jet of air might "sing",
if the opening and air velocity is just right. Whistling
teakettles and flutes are common, for example.
There are also issues with the temperature inside the
bottle. PV = nRT; with decreasing P and constant V (we
neglect here the already-exhausted gas) T has to go down,
and the air may liquefy fairly easily. Consider, for
example, an ordinary scuba gear pressurized to 3,000 psi
(20 megaPascal), at 300 K (after it's been left to cool).
O2 boils at 90.2 K so all one has to do is release 7/10 or
so of that bottle and in theory at least one has liquid
air. (In practice, I don't know; n is decreasing, too.
But in light of this consideration it's not difficult to
produce the stuff, although it does take some energy.)


The air escapes with an average velocity determined by the
pressure inside the bottle. Air molecules collide inside
the nozzle itself and so emerge with component velocities
in directions other than straight ahead.

Before very long, the probability of further collisions
decreases rapidly and the molecules travel essentially
in straight lines for considerable distances. Eventually,
the occasional collision with the very low density molcules of
space causes them to equilibrate with whatever local conditions
they happen to be passing through. Their initial momentum
has been absorbed by the molecules of space.

In the case of a water jet, the dispersion is not as immediate
as with a gas, presumably because of surface tension. It is not
until the jet evaporates that dispersion takes place. The higher
the initial speed, the lower the relative dispersion.

Similarly, light does not disperse rapidly because of its
extreme forward speed. The likelihood of lateral photon
collisions is very low, particularly if their initial speed
is constant (almost?) wrt their source.

The likelihood of photon-photon collisions is close to nil,
although quantum entanglement is interesting and (AFAIK)
as yet unexplained.


However, like the air molecules, all the photons emitted
in a particular pulse will eventually interact with the
'gas' of photons in space and settle down to 'local
conditions'.

How? Photons don't interact. Think of two laser beams
(or any light beams) passing through each other.

This individual fields that make up this photon gas
collectively constitute the 'H-aether', which is by
no means isotropic and can be regarded as possing

Presumably "possessing".

turbulence, pressure and density gradients like, for
instance, our upper atmosphere.

As far as we know, however, light is not influenced by
the passage of other light through it. However, experiments
that have investigated this possibility have been in the lab
and over short ranges. I doubt if anyone has really looked
seriously into the way in which light might react with other
light particularly at very low intensities.

You can laugh at my theory if you like but it seems to offer
a few answers that others cannot and fits the evidence pretty well.

Henri Wilson.

See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm

--
#191,

It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 31 Aug 2003 04:39:41 PM
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 16:00:11 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Sat, 30 Aug 2003 20:57:21 GMT
<6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com>:

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I invite
constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected
into empty space behaves in much the same way as a fine,
high speed jet of gas or liquid might under the same
circumstances.

Consider that you are in remote space equipped with an air bottle.
You open the nozzle for a brief period. What happens?


Even in light of my relative ignorance of the flight
dynamics of a bumblebee, airplane, balloon, or rocket, I
can nevertheless point out some problems with this analogy;
the single biggest one is that the jet of air might "sing",
if the opening and air velocity is just right. Whistling
teakettles and flutes are common, for example.

Just as we get interference patterns from light passing through pinholes, eh
ghost?


There are also issues with the temperature inside the
bottle. PV = nRT; with decreasing P and constant V (we
neglect here the already-exhausted gas) T has to go down,
and the air may liquefy fairly easily. Consider, for
example, an ordinary scuba gear pressurized to 3,000 psi
(20 megaPascal), at 300 K (after it's been left to cool).
O2 boils at 90.2 K so all one has to do is release 7/10 or
so of that bottle and in theory at least one has liquid
air. (In practice, I don't know; n is decreasing, too.
But in light of this consideration it's not difficult to
produce the stuff, although it does take some energy.)

What are you talking about Ghost. You have really gone crazy this time.
All you do is squirt a few billion molecules out of the nozzle. You don't have
to empty the whole bloody bottle to demonstrate my point.
And, of course, I assume you are familiar with the porous plug experiments.



The air escapes with an average velocity determined by the
pressure inside the bottle. Air molecules collide inside
the nozzle itself and so emerge with component velocities
in directions other than straight ahead.

Before very long, the probability of further collisions
decreases rapidly and the molecules travel essentially
in straight lines for considerable distances. Eventually,
the occasional collision with the very low density molcules of
space causes them to equilibrate with whatever local conditions
they happen to be passing through. Their initial momentum
has been absorbed by the molecules of space.

In the case of a water jet, the dispersion is not as immediate
as with a gas, presumably because of surface tension. It is not
until the jet evaporates that dispersion takes place. The higher
the initial speed, the lower the relative dispersion.

Similarly, light does not disperse rapidly because of its
extreme forward speed. The likelihood of lateral photon
collisions is very low, particularly if their initial speed
is constant (almost?) wrt their source.


The likelihood of photon-photon collisions is close to nil,
although quantum entanglement is interesting and (AFAIK)
as yet unexplained.

quite. So my theory remains intact.



However, like the air molecules, all the photons emitted
in a particular pulse will eventually interact with the
'gas' of photons in space and settle down to 'local
conditions'.


How? Photons don't interact. Think of two laser beams
(or any light beams) passing through each other.

I have thought about that.
Even if two laser beams cross, what are the chances of two photons (if they
exist) hitting each other. One would have to know the effective length and
'cross section' to work this out.
I would like to know how deeply light beam interaction has been investigated.


This individual fields that make up this photon gas
collectively constitute the 'H-aether', which is by
no means isotropic and can be regarded as possing


Presumably "possessing".

yes


turbulence, pressure and density gradients like, for
instance, our upper atmosphere.

As far as we know, however, light is not influenced by
the passage of other light through it. However, experiments
that have investigated this possibility have been in the lab
and over short ranges. I doubt if anyone has really looked
seriously into the way in which light might react with other
light particularly at very low intensities.

You can laugh at my theory if you like but it seems to offer
a few answers that others cannot and fits the evidence pretty well.

Henri Wilson.

See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm

Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.


User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 02 Sep 2003 03:57:33 AM
On 1 Sep 2003 17:41:17 -0700,
(ghytrfvbnmju7654)
wrote:

Two words: Occam's Razor.

Henri@the.edge(HenriWilson) wrote in message news:<6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com>...

You can laugh at my theory if you like but it seems to offer a few answers that
others cannot and fits the evidence pretty well.


What answers?

Everything.
Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.
User: "ghytrfvbnmju7654"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 03 Sep 2003 02:50:14 PM
Henri@the.edge(HenriWilson) wrote in message news:<8rm8lv0cj55h9jctjuv7k26hn356fg2uhi@4ax.com>...

On 1 Sep 2003 17:41:17 -0700,

(ghytrfvbnmju7654)
wrote:

Henri@the.edge(HenriWilson) wrote in message >>news:<6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com>...

You can laugh at my theory if you like but it seems to offer a few
answers that
others cannot and fits the evidence pretty well.

What answers?

Everything.

Very well. You say your theory can explain "everything." Explain
both gravity AND the results of the EPR experiments, using your theory.
.
User: "Bilge"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 04 Sep 2003 03:19:05 PM
HenriWilson:

On 3 Sep 2003 12:50:14 -0700,

(ghytrfvbnmju7654)
wrote:

Very well. You say your theory can explain "everything." Explain
both gravity AND the results of the EPR experiments, using your theory.


By 'everything' I was refering to phenomena associated with light speed.


OK, then use your theory to explain the epr experiment and conservation
of electric charge.
.

User: "ghytrfvbnmju7654"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 04 Sep 2003 11:52:18 AM
Henri@the.edge(HenriWilson) wrote in message news:<8jpclv0054o1vtbu7om385426voaigmpsv@4ax.com>...

By 'everything' I was refering to phenomena associated with light speed.

Which of these phenomena are explained by your theory that are not
explained by the currently accepted model of SR, which is simpler?
.



User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 31 Aug 2003 04:43:34 PM
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:01:12 +0100, "davidoff404"
<davidoff404@_NO_SPAM_yahoo.com> wrote:


HenriWilson <Henri@the.edge> wrote in message
news:6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com...

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I

invite

constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid

might

under the same circumstances.


Horseshit.

What happens when you squirt a little gas into empty space?
Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.
User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 31 Aug 2003 04:48:46 PM
HenriWilson wrote:


On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:01:12 +0100, "davidoff404"
<davidoff404@_NO_SPAM_yahoo.com> wrote:


HenriWilson <Henri@the.edge> wrote in message
news:6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com...

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I

invite

constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid

might

under the same circumstances.


Horseshit.


What happens when you squirt a little gas into empty space?

As a molecular beam, an effusion, a diffusion, an orifice expansion,
or a free expansion? Your profound ignorance must be of great comfort
to you. You know NOTHING.
http://w0rli.home.att.net/youare.swf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/sunshine.jpg
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 01 Sep 2003 03:14:55 AM
On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:48:46 -0700, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:

HenriWilson wrote:


On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:01:12 +0100, "davidoff404"
<davidoff404@_NO_SPAM_yahoo.com> wrote:


HenriWilson <Henri@the.edge> wrote in message
news:6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com...

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I

invite

constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid

might

under the same circumstances.


Horseshit.


What happens when you squirt a little gas into empty space?


As a molecular beam, an effusion, a diffusion, an orifice expansion,
or a free expansion? Your profound ignorance must be of great comfort
to you. You know NOTHING.

So what happens to a fine jet of water that is sqirted into empty space?
Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.
User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 02 Sep 2003 03:00:08 AM
In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Mon, 01 Sep 2003 08:14:55 GMT
<cuv5lv4gctvd4bk3vr8fck1h1cajpdoijl@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:48:46 -0700, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:

HenriWilson wrote:


On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:01:12 +0100, "davidoff404"
<davidoff404@_NO_SPAM_yahoo.com> wrote:


HenriWilson <Henri@the.edge> wrote in message
news:6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com...

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I

invite

constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid

might

under the same circumstances.


Horseshit.


What happens when you squirt a little gas into empty space?


As a molecular beam, an effusion, a diffusion, an orifice expansion,
or a free expansion? Your profound ignorance must be of great comfort
to you. You know NOTHING.


So what happens to a fine jet of water that is sqirted into empty space?

I'm having some trouble finding specific references thereto, but
water in space doesn't stay water for long; it becomes ice crystals.
As an analogy to your H-aether theory, this probably raises some
strange questions. :-)
[.sigsnip]
--
#191,

It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 02 Sep 2003 03:56:58 AM
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 08:00:08 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Mon, 01 Sep 2003 08:14:55 GMT
<cuv5lv4gctvd4bk3vr8fck1h1cajpdoijl@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:48:46 -0700, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:

HenriWilson wrote:


On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:01:12 +0100, "davidoff404"
<davidoff404@_NO_SPAM_yahoo.com> wrote:


HenriWilson <Henri@the.edge> wrote in message
news:6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com...

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I

invite

constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid

might

under the same circumstances.


Horseshit.


What happens when you squirt a little gas into empty space?


As a molecular beam, an effusion, a diffusion, an orifice expansion,
or a free expansion? Your profound ignorance must be of great comfort
to you. You know NOTHING.


So what happens to a fine jet of water that is sqirted into empty space?


I'm having some trouble finding specific references thereto, but
water in space doesn't stay water for long; it becomes ice crystals.

I don't like that answer Ghost.


As an analogy to your H-aether theory, this probably raises some
strange questions. :-)

I think ice crystals form as a result of pressure variations and evaporative
cooling but molecules evaporating into empty space would just continue on their
merry way in what ever direction they started out.
If the jet velocity was much greater than the mean molecular speed, then the
jet would not disperse very quickly.
In the case of light, the speed is much, much greater than the transverse
velocity component of any photon in a light beam. Do you see what I'm getting
at?


[.sigsnip]

Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.
User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 02 Sep 2003 11:00:06 AM
In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Tue, 02 Sep 2003 08:56:58 GMT
<pdm8lvcoi8hc1at6rr8ho7s8euvr28s556@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 08:00:08 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Mon, 01 Sep 2003 08:14:55 GMT
<cuv5lv4gctvd4bk3vr8fck1h1cajpdoijl@4ax.com>:

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:48:46 -0700, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:

HenriWilson wrote:


On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 20:01:12 +0100, "davidoff404"
<davidoff404@_NO_SPAM_yahoo.com> wrote:


HenriWilson <Henri@the.edge> wrote in message
news:6j02lv8b2bgrd2ioplvbn3m374dddvucvj@4ax.com...

To assist with the development of my revolutionary H-aether theory, I

invite

constructive comments on the following.

Basically, my theory claims that a light beam projected into empty space
behaves in much the same way as a fine, high speed jet of gas or liquid

might

under the same circumstances.


Horseshit.


What happens when you squirt a little gas into empty space?


As a molecular beam, an effusion, a diffusion, an orifice expansion,
or a free expansion? Your profound ignorance must be of great comfort
to you. You know NOTHING.


So what happens to a fine jet of water that is sqirted into empty space?


I'm having some trouble finding specific references thereto, but
water in space doesn't stay water for long; it becomes ice crystals.


I don't like that answer Ghost.

Tough. :-) It was an issue during Apollo 13 (mostly because NASA was
worried that it would change the vector of the crippled ship), although
the issue there was the jet, not the crystallization.



As an analogy to your H-aether theory, this probably raises some
strange questions. :-)


I think ice crystals form as a result of pressure variations
and evaporative cooling but molecules evaporating into empty
space would just continue on their merry way in what ever
direction they started out.

Eventually merging with the rest of space speedwise, yes.


If the jet velocity was much greater than the mean molecular
speed, then the jet would not disperse very quickly.

In the case of light, the speed is much, much greater than
the transverse velocity component of any photon in a light
beam. Do you see what I'm getting at?

It's clear that you need to support this with some calculations.
For example, assume interstellar space density of 1 hydrogen atom
per cm^2, and a background radiation of about 3 degrees Kelvin.
Assume further a star identical to ours (5800 Kelvin, total
power 3.94 * 10^26 W), moving away from the Sun at a speed of
about 30 km/s.
How far away would this star have to be in order to have its "jet"
of photon gas successfully merged with the rest of the H-aether
and have indistinguishable velocity from any other star in its
immediate vicinity visually? Or, to look at it another way,
how close would this star have to be to see a speed difference,
and how much would that difference be, as a function of distance?
[.sigsnip]
--
#191,

It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 02 Sep 2003 06:41:04 PM
On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:00:06 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>


So what happens to a fine jet of water that is sqirted into empty space?


I'm having some trouble finding specific references thereto, but
water in space doesn't stay water for long; it becomes ice crystals.


I don't like that answer Ghost.


Tough. :-) It was an issue during Apollo 13 (mostly because NASA was
worried that it would change the vector of the crippled ship), although
the issue there was the jet, not the crystallization.



As an analogy to your H-aether theory, this probably raises some
strange questions. :-)


I think ice crystals form as a result of pressure variations
and evaporative cooling but molecules evaporating into empty
space would just continue on their merry way in what ever
direction they started out.


Eventually merging with the rest of space speedwise, yes.


If the jet velocity was much greater than the mean molecular
speed, then the jet would not disperse very quickly.

In the case of light, the speed is much, much greater than
the transverse velocity component of any photon in a light
beam. Do you see what I'm getting at?


It's clear that you need to support this with some calculations.
For example, assume interstellar space density of 1 hydrogen atom
per cm^2, and a background radiation of about 3 degrees Kelvin.
Assume further a star identical to ours (5800 Kelvin, total
power 3.94 * 10^26 W), moving away from the Sun at a speed of
about 30 km/s.

My theory does not claim that light is affected by matter itself although the
fields associated with that matter might do something, as evidenced by
refractive index.
Rather, I say light traveling through space is influenced by the fields making
up other EM. One would have to know the intensity of this EM in space and the
way in which very low intensity light interacts with other light before
meaningful calculations could be made.
I wouldn't know where to start. Crossed laser beam experiments and the like
are hardly relevant.


How far away would this star have to be in order to have its "jet"
of photon gas successfully merged with the rest of the H-aether
and have indistinguishable velocity from any other star in its
immediate vicinity visually? Or, to look at it another way,
how close would this star have to be to see a speed difference,
and how much would that difference be, as a function of distance?

Glad to see you are identifying the right questions Ghost.
I suppose binary star evidence gives a few clues. They certainly seem to behave
as though light speed is NOT source dependent - but maybe there are small
anomalies that could reveal some of the answers to your questions.
My approach would be to try to find evidence that one light ray can have some
kind of influence on another.


[.sigsnip]

Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.
User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 02 Sep 2003 11:00:11 PM
In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Tue, 02 Sep 2003 23:41:04 GMT
<ru9alv0gogr09k12fivbtlob3gtvqg21p1@4ax.com>:

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 16:00:06 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>



So what happens to a fine jet of water that is sqirted into empty space?


I'm having some trouble finding specific references thereto, but
water in space doesn't stay water for long; it becomes ice crystals.


I don't like that answer Ghost.


Tough. :-) It was an issue during Apollo 13 (mostly because NASA was
worried that it would change the vector of the crippled ship), although
the issue there was the jet, not the crystallization.



As an analogy to your H-aether theory, this probably raises some
strange questions. :-)


I think ice crystals form as a result of pressure variations
and evaporative cooling but molecules evaporating into empty
space would just continue on their merry way in what ever
direction they started out.


Eventually merging with the rest of space speedwise, yes.


If the jet velocity was much greater than the mean molecular
speed, then the jet would not disperse very quickly.

In the case of light, the speed is much, much greater than
the transverse velocity component of any photon in a light
beam. Do you see what I'm getting at?


It's clear that you need to support this with some calculations.
For example, assume interstellar space density of 1 hydrogen atom
per cm^2, and a background radiation of about 3 degrees Kelvin.
Assume further a star identical to ours (5800 Kelvin, total
power 3.94 * 10^26 W), moving away from the Sun at a speed of
about 30 km/s.


My theory does not claim that light is affected by matter itself
although the fields associated with that matter might do something,
as evidenced by refractive index. Rather, I say light traveling
through space is influenced by the fields making up other EM.

Hence my other input: the microwave background radiation.
That translates into a certain energy density and one could
probably even compute the number of photons per cubic centimeter.

One would have to know the intensity of this EM in space and
the way in which very low intensity light interacts with other
light before meaningful calculations could be made.
I wouldn't know where to start. Crossed laser beam experiments
and the like are hardly relevant.

?




How far away would this star have to be in order to have its "jet"
of photon gas successfully merged with the rest of the H-aether
and have indistinguishable velocity from any other star in its
immediate vicinity visually? Or, to look at it another way,
how close would this star have to be to see a speed difference,
and how much would that difference be, as a function of distance?


Glad to see you are identifying the right questions Ghost.

Well, they *are* obvious questions. :-) If your theory
predicts a certain effect differing from SR, GR, or QM,
the logical thing to do is to identify an experiment that
has the potential of differentiating between your theory
and the effects of SR, GR, or QM. Michelson Morley is a
perfect example although the postulate was a solid aether,
not a fluid one. (It was, of course, disproven.)

I suppose binary star evidence gives a few clues.

Some. I'd have to dig for the details.

They certainly seem to behave as though light speed is
NOT source dependent - but maybe there are small
anomalies that could reveal some of the answers to your questions.

My approach would be to try to find evidence that
one light ray can have some kind of influence on another.

Take two 1-milliwatt continuous beam lasers and cross their
paths. Assuming each laser is 10 m away from the crossing-point,
what would happen, how much, and why?
Or did you have something else in mind?
[.sigsnip]
--
#191,

It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 03 Sep 2003 11:00:07 PM
In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:08:37 GMT
<onpclv0vh1r58gk1nle14p3gr3n2k78s24@4ax.com>:

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 04:00:11 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson






If the jet velocity was much greater than the mean molecular
speed, then the jet would not disperse very quickly.

In the case of light, the speed is much, much greater than
the transverse velocity component of any photon in a light
beam. Do you see what I'm getting at?


It's clear that you need to support this with some calculations.
For example, assume interstellar space density of 1 hydrogen atom
per cm^2, and a background radiation of about 3 degrees Kelvin.
Assume further a star identical to ours (5800 Kelvin, total
power 3.94 * 10^26 W), moving away from the Sun at a speed of
about 30 km/s.


My theory does not claim that light is affected by matter itself
although the fields associated with that matter might do something,
as evidenced by refractive index. Rather, I say light traveling
through space is influenced by the fields making up other EM.


Hence my other input: the microwave background radiation.
That translates into a certain energy density and one could
probably even compute the number of photons per cubic centimeter.


Hmm. Is the CMBR any more intense than background starlight?
I doubt it.

I don't know the density of stars per cubic light year
so can't say. However, AFAIK the radiation pattern is
different (although things could get interesting with
brown dwarfs and dark matter); stars radiate in the visible
region but the CMBR is primarily microwave.

Also, since the CMBR is almost isotropic, one wouldn't expect
that it would have much effec on photon speed.

No, but it may have an effect on photon deceleration. The more
"gas", the shorter the distance.


On the other hand there would be regions in space where
total EM is certainly NOT isotopic.

Maybe. I can't say offhand.



One would have to know the intensity of this EM in space and
the way in which very low intensity light interacts with other
light before meaningful calculations could be made.
I wouldn't know where to start. Crossed laser beam experiments
and the like are hardly relevant.


?




How far away would this star have to be in order to have its "jet"
of photon gas successfully merged with the rest of the H-aether
and have indistinguishable velocity from any other star in its
immediate vicinity visually? Or, to look at it another way,
how close would this star have to be to see a speed difference,
and how much would that difference be, as a function of distance?


Glad to see you are identifying the right questions Ghost.


Well, they *are* obvious questions. :-) If your theory
predicts a certain effect differing from SR, GR, or QM,
the logical thing to do is to identify an experiment that
has the potential of differentiating between your theory
and the effects of SR, GR, or QM. Michelson Morley is a
perfect example although the postulate was a solid aether,
not a fluid one. (It was, of course, disproven.)


A googlesearch for 'photon-photon interactions'
returns over 1000 hits. They appear to be all about
high intensity and high speed experiments however. That
isn't really what I'm loking for.

I suppose not, but then your effects are much more
subtle, if I understand you correctly. If 6 * 10^23
molecules occupy 1/40 of a cubic meter (which they do,
roughly, at room temperature and 1 atm pressure), or
2.4 * 10^25 molecules per cubic meter, this translates
into a molecule-molecule distance of about 3.5 nm. Average
molecule-molecule distance in empty space is about 1 cm.
Average photon-photon distance may be much greater.
It gets more interesting when velocities are involved.
IIRC, O2 molecules whiz around at about 450 m/s -- quite
fast compared to their intermolecule distance, but much
slower than a photon (300,000 km/s).



I suppose binary star evidence gives a few clues.


Some. I'd have to dig for the details.

They certainly seem to behave as though light speed is
NOT source dependent - but maybe there are small
anomalies that could reveal some of the answers to your questions.

My approach would be to try to find evidence that
one light ray can have some kind of influence on another.


Take two 1-milliwatt continuous beam lasers and cross their
paths. Assuming each laser is 10 m away from the crossing-point,
what would happen, how much, and why?

Or did you have something else in mind?


This kind of experiment might reveal something but I think it
has been tried, with no obvious result.
Maybe one could look for a small deflection or significant
blurring a very long distance away.

That would be the general idea.


I think h-aether involves a more subtle interaction
than plain 'brute force'.

It would have to involve something akin to force, deflecting
the photon. I have yet to get an idea from you as to
how much. :-) But then, I'd have to work out the universe's
mass density or look it up.
[.sigsnip]
--
#191,

It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 05 Sep 2003 05:30:35 AM
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 04:00:07 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Wed, 03 Sep 2003 23:08:37 GMT
<onpclv0vh1r58gk1nle14p3gr3n2k78s24@4ax.com>:

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 04:00:11 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson






If the jet velocity was much greater than the mean molecular
speed, then the jet would not disperse very quickly.

In the case of light, the speed is much, much greater than
the transverse velocity component of any photon in a light
beam. Do you see what I'm getting at?


It's clear that you need to support this with some calculations.
For example, assume interstellar space density of 1 hydrogen atom
per cm^2, and a background radiation of about 3 degrees Kelvin.
Assume further a star identical to ours (5800 Kelvin, total
power 3.94 * 10^26 W), moving away from the Sun at a speed of
about 30 km/s.


My theory does not claim that light is affected by matter itself
although the fields associated with that matter might do something,
as evidenced by refractive index. Rather, I say light traveling
through space is influenced by the fields making up other EM.


Hence my other input: the microwave background radiation.
That translates into a certain energy density and one could
probably even compute the number of photons per cubic centimeter.


Hmm. Is the CMBR any more intense than background starlight?
I doubt it.


I don't know the density of stars per cubic light year
so can't say. However, AFAIK the radiation pattern is
different (although things could get interesting with
brown dwarfs and dark matter); stars radiate in the visible
region but the CMBR is primarily microwave.


Also, since the CMBR is almost isotropic, one wouldn't expect
that it would have much effec on photon speed.


No, but it may have an effect on photon deceleration. The more
"gas", the shorter the distance.

We can only speculate about this kind of behavior.



On the other hand there would be regions in space where
total EM is certainly NOT isotopic.


Maybe. I can't say offhand.



One would have to know the intensity of this EM in space and
the way in which very low intensity light interacts with other
light before meaningful calculations could be made.
I wouldn't know where to start. Crossed laser beam experiments
and the like are hardly relevant.


?




How far away would this star have to be in order to have its "jet"
of photon gas successfully merged with the rest of the H-aether
and have indistinguishable velocity from any other star in its
immediate vicinity visually? Or, to look at it another way,
how close would this star have to be to see a speed difference,
and how much would that difference be, as a function of distance?


Glad to see you are identifying the right questions Ghost.


Well, they *are* obvious questions. :-) If your theory
predicts a certain effect differing from SR, GR, or QM,
the logical thing to do is to identify an experiment that
has the potential of differentiating between your theory
and the effects of SR, GR, or QM. Michelson Morley is a
perfect example although the postulate was a solid aether,
not a fluid one. (It was, of course, disproven.)


A googlesearch for 'photon-photon interactions'
returns over 1000 hits. They appear to be all about
high intensity and high speed experiments however. That
isn't really what I'm loking for.


I suppose not, but then your effects are much more
subtle, if I understand you correctly. If 6 * 10^23
molecules occupy 1/40 of a cubic meter (which they do,
roughly, at room temperature and 1 atm pressure), or
2.4 * 10^25 molecules per cubic meter, this translates
into a molecule-molecule distance of about 3.5 nm. Average
molecule-molecule distance in empty space is about 1 cm.
Average photon-photon distance may be much greater.

It gets more interesting when velocities are involved.
IIRC, O2 molecules whiz around at about 450 m/s -- quite
fast compared to their intermolecule distance, but much
slower than a photon (300,000 km/s).

I'm thinking of situations where the photons from a particular source become
completely isolated from each other. It is hard to believe that they would not
be somehow affected by the presence of the more intense EM fields through which
they pass.




Take two 1-milliwatt continuous beam lasers and cross their
paths. Assuming each laser is 10 m away from the crossing-point,
what would happen, how much, and why?

Or did you have something else in mind?


This kind of experiment might reveal something but I think it
has been tried, with no obvious result.
Maybe one could look for a small deflection or significant
blurring a very long distance away.


That would be the general idea.


I think h-aether involves a more subtle interaction
than plain 'brute force'.


It would have to involve something akin to force, deflecting
the photon. I have yet to get an idea from you as to
how much. :-) But then, I'd have to work out the universe's
mass density or look it up.

My theory is very young. Frankly I'm not even convinced that photons exist.


[.sigsnip]

Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 07 Sep 2003 06:06:16 PM
On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:00:14 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:30:35 GMT

Also, since the CMBR is almost isotropic, one wouldn't expect
that it would have much effec on photon speed.


No, but it may have an effect on photon deceleration. The more
"gas", the shorter the distance.


We can only speculate about this kind of behavior.


'We'? Surely you have an idea...? Me, I am given to understand
that photons don't interact with each other.

Don't you consider it remotely possible that one single photon might be
affected by an intense beam.

A googlesearch for 'photon-photon interactions'
returns over 1000 hits. They appear to be all about
high intensity and high speed experiments however. That
isn't really what I'm loking for.


I suppose not, but then your effects are much more
subtle, if I understand you correctly. If 6 * 10^23
molecules occupy 1/40 of a cubic meter (which they do,
roughly, at room temperature and 1 atm pressure), or
2.4 * 10^25 molecules per cubic meter, this translates
into a molecule-molecule distance of about 3.5 nm. Average
molecule-molecule distance in empty space is about 1 cm.
Average photon-photon distance may be much greater.

It gets more interesting when velocities are involved.
IIRC, O2 molecules whiz around at about 450 m/s -- quite
fast compared to their intermolecule distance, but much
slower than a photon (300,000 km/s).


I'm thinking of situations where the photons from a particular
source become completely isolated from each other. It is hard
to believe that they would not be somehow affected by the
presence of the more intense EM fields through which they pass.


And this differs from the suggested experiment of 2 crossing
milliwatt lasers precisely how?

Any effect would be pretty hard to detect, that is all.

That would be the general idea.


I think h-aether involves a more subtle interaction
than plain 'brute force'.


It would have to involve something akin to force, deflecting
the photon. I have yet to get an idea from you as to
how much. :-) But then, I'd have to work out the universe's
mass density or look it up.


My theory is very young. Frankly I'm not even convinced
that photons exist.


So what carts energy from the Sun to the Earth?

Electromagnetic waves?

Aether particles?

Magic Scrubbing Bubbles?

UFOs?

Bats??

Yes Bats!


[.sigsnip]

Henri Wilson.
See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm
.
User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 08 Sep 2003 11:00:26 AM
In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:06:16 GMT
<hqdnlvsm8t66lc1025nn9kk19slv6qonnr@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:00:14 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:30:35 GMT



Also, since the CMBR is almost isotropic, one wouldn't expect
that it would have much effec on photon speed.


No, but it may have an effect on photon deceleration. The more
"gas", the shorter the distance.


We can only speculate about this kind of behavior.


'We'? Surely you have an idea...? Me, I am given to understand
that photons don't interact with each other.


Don't you consider it remotely possible that one single photon might be
affected by an intense beam.

Entirely possible absent more data, but I'd like to see specifics.
I can, for example, compute the amount of energy a 1 m dish antenna
can pick up from a 50,000 kW radio station 4 light years
(3.784 * 10^16 m) away. Can you similarly compute the amount
of bend or shift a photon of, say, blue-green light (500 nm)
would encounter, when crossed by another photon of blue-green light?
(Note that a photon of 500 nm would have an energy of 3.976*10^-19
J and a "pseudo-Newtonian rest mass" [*] of 4.417*10^-36 kg. A
1-milliwatt blue-green laser would generate 2.5*10^18 photons a second,
for a "pseudo-Newtonian rest mass" of 3.162*10^-17 kg/s. The Sun
radiates 3.94 * 10^26 W per second; this translates into about
4.378 * 10^9 kg/s in terms of radiation alone; the "solar wind"
is additional mass.)
I could assume that the milliwatt beam is replaced by a
filament wire which has a density of 3.162*10^-17 kg/3*10^8 m
= 1.054e-25 kg/m. (That's very thin wire.) Computations
of this sort might work as a first approximation in
validating your theory.



A googlesearch for 'photon-photon interactions'
returns over 1000 hits. They appear to be all about
high intensity and high speed experiments however. That
isn't really what I'm loking for.


I suppose not, but then your effects are much more
subtle, if I understand you correctly. If 6 * 10^23
molecules occupy 1/40 of a cubic meter (which they do,
roughly, at room temperature and 1 atm pressure), or
2.4 * 10^25 molecules per cubic meter, this translates
into a molecule-molecule distance of about 3.5 nm. Average
molecule-molecule distance in empty space is about 1 cm.
Average photon-photon distance may be much greater.

It gets more interesting when velocities are involved.
IIRC, O2 molecules whiz around at about 450 m/s -- quite
fast compared to their intermolecule distance, but much
slower than a photon (300,000 km/s).


I'm thinking of situations where the photons from a particular
source become completely isolated from each other. It is hard
to believe that they would not be somehow affected by the
presence of the more intense EM fields through which they pass.


And this differs from the suggested experiment of 2 crossing
milliwatt lasers precisely how?


Any effect would be pretty hard to detect, that is all.

Not over megalightyears.



That would be the general idea.


I think h-aether involves a more subtle interaction
than plain 'brute force'.


It would have to involve something akin to force, deflecting
the photon. I have yet to get an idea from you as to
how much. :-) But then, I'd have to work out the universe's
mass density or look it up.


My theory is very young. Frankly I'm not even convinced
that photons exist.


So what carts energy from the Sun to the Earth?

Electromagnetic waves?

Aether particles?

Magic Scrubbing Bubbles?

UFOs?

Bats??


Yes Bats!

Well, you heard it here first, folks. :-)
[.sigsnip]
[*] E = m_{0}c^2 or m_0 = E/c^2. However, this is a naive application
of the formula.
--
#191,

It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
User: "The Ghost In The Machine"

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 09 Sep 2003 03:00:16 AM
In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Mon, 08 Sep 2003 22:35:22 GMT
<nrvplvsjeueq6c5drld66k7k4bfk417ivf@4ax.com>:

On Mon, 08 Sep 2003 16:00:26 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Sun, 07 Sep 2003 23:06:16 GMT
<hqdnlvsm8t66lc1025nn9kk19slv6qonnr@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:00:14 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson
<Henri@the.edge>
wrote
on Fri, 05 Sep 2003 10:30:35 GMT



Also, since the CMBR is almost isotropic, one wouldn't expect
that it would have much effec on photon speed.


No, but it may have an effect on photon deceleration. The more
"gas", the shorter the distance.


We can only speculate about this kind of behavior.


'We'? Surely you have an idea...? Me, I am given to understand
that photons don't interact with each other.


Don't you consider it remotely possible that one single photon might be
affected by an intense beam.


Entirely possible absent more data, but I'd like to see specifics.
I can, for example, compute the amount of energy a 1 m dish antenna
can pick up from a 50,000 kW radio station 4 light years
(3.784 * 10^16 m) away. Can you similarly compute the amount
of bend or shift a photon of, say, blue-green light (500 nm)
would encounter, when crossed by another photon of blue-green light?
(Note that a photon of 500 nm would have an energy of 3.976*10^-19
J and a "pseudo-Newtonian rest mass" [*] of 4.417*10^-36 kg. A
1-milliwatt blue-green laser would generate 2.5*10^18 photons a second,
for a "pseudo-Newtonian rest mass" of 3.162*10^-17 kg/s. The Sun
radiates 3.94 * 10^26 W per second; this translates into about
4.378 * 10^9 kg/s in terms of radiation alone; the "solar wind"
is additional mass.)

I could assume that the milliwatt beam is replaced by a
filament wire which has a density of 3.162*10^-17 kg/3*10^8 m
= 1.054e-25 kg/m. (That's very thin wire.) Computations
of this sort might work as a first approximation in
validating your theory.


Trouble is, we have no information regarding the likelihood or degree of
interaction between photons in close proximity. I would be considering field
interactions rather than looking at the problem from a purely 'particle
collision' point of view. What are the spatial dimensions of the field of a
moving photon?

I'm assuming that one can represent a photon as a moving point-mass
sweeping 1 light-second (3*10^8 m) in 1 second, with the equivalent
rest-mass. This is of course ridiculously naive, as a photon actually
does not see that distance in its reference frame. So take a non-existent
material of infinite ductility and s-t-r-e-t-c-h.


The aim is to find a mechanism by which the E and B fields of
one photon (or light beam) might change the velocity of the
E and B fields of another. There is no known indication that
this does or can happen.

Oh no? At a large scale E and B fields interact routinely.
Electromagnets work based on this principle, as does the
standard vacuum-tube computer monitor and electric motors.
However, QM does weird things.

For instance I don't think the velocity of water waves varies
when two collide or interfere. However, the effect in light
only has to be very minute to make the H-aether concept a
possibility.

Correct, they do not change.





A googlesearch for 'photon-photon interactions'
returns over 1000 hits. They appear to be all about
high intensity and high speed experiments however. That
isn't really what I'm loking for.


I suppose not, but then your effects are much more
subtle, if I understand you correctly. If 6 * 10^23
molecules occupy 1/40 of a cubic meter (which they do,
roughly, at room temperature and 1 atm pressure), or
2.4 * 10^25 molecules per cubic meter, this translates
into a molecule-molecule distance of about 3.5 nm. Average
molecule-molecule distance in empty space is about 1 cm.
Average photon-photon distance may be much greater.

It gets more interesting when velocities are involved.
IIRC, O2 molecules whiz around at about 450 m/s -- quite
fast compared to their intermolecule distance, but much
slower than a photon (300,000 km/s).


I'm thinking of situations where the photons from a particular
source become completely isolated from each other. It is hard
to believe that they would not be somehow affected by the
presence of the more intense EM fields through which they pass.


And this differs from the suggested experiment of 2 crossing
milliwatt lasers precisely how?


Any effect would be pretty hard to detect, that is all.


Not over megalightyears.


But binary star observations suggests that light speed reaches local
equilibrium in thousands of LYs rather than millions.

The nearest multiple-star system is in fact Alpha and Proxima
Centauri. (I think there's a Beta in there, too.) 4.3
light years away.
I don't know if they've done detailed analysis on the speed
of light emanating therefrom, though.





That would be the general idea.


I think h-aether involves a more subtle interaction
than plain 'brute force'.


It would have to involve something akin to force, deflecting
the photon. I have yet to get an idea from you as to
how much. :-) But then, I'd have to work out the universe's
mass density or look it up.


My theory is very young. Frankly I'm not even convinced
that photons exist.


So what carts energy from the Sun to the Earth?

Electromagnetic waves?

Aether particles?

Magic Scrubbing Bubbles?

UFOs?

Bats??


Yes Bats!


Well, you heard it here first, folks. :-)

[.sigsnip]

[*] E = m_{0}c^2 or m_0 = E/c^2. However, this is a naive application
of the formula.


But that formula is not much help if you cannot ascertain the
value of either m_0 or the energy of one single photon.

We know E = h v; this is easily proven by bombarding electrons.
Not that it matters all that much; there are so many photons that
as a first approximation one can take the stream of light as though
it were from a fire hose.


What about considering the energy carried in a transverse
wave moving at c? Once again you need to know how many
'photons per second' are involved.

To compute that energy, using classical theory, I'd need to
know the amplitude of the wave.


Henri Wilson.

See my animations and physics book at:
http://www.users.bigpond.com/HeWn/index.htm

--
#191,

It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: More On My H-aether Theory 09 Sep 2003 03:38:29 AM
On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 08:00:16 GMT, The Ghost In The Machine
<ewill@sirius.athghost7038suus.net> wrote:

In sci.physics, HenriWilson


I could assume that the milliwatt beam is replaced by a
filament wire which has a density of 3.162*10^-17 kg/3*10^8 m
= 1.054e-25 kg/m. (That's very thin wire.) Computations
of this sort might work as a first approximation in
validating your theory.


Trouble is, we have no information regarding the likelihood or degree of
interaction between photons in close proximity. I would be considering field
interactions rather than looking at the problem from a purely 'particle
collision' point of view. What are the spatial dimensions of the field of a
moving photon?


I'm assuming that one can represent a photon as a moving point-mass
sweeping 1 light-second (3*10^8 m) in 1 second, with the equivalent
rest-mass. This is of course ridiculously naive, as a photon actually
does not see that distance in its reference frame. So take a non-existent
material of infinite ductility and s-t-r-e-t-c-h.

Of course I do not agree with that.
I don't go along with length and time contractions at all.
As far as I'm concerned, a photon (if it exists) must have a 'volume' in 3D
like anything else that possesses properties that are observable in 3D..
I believe that the field strengths diminish rapidly with distance from the
centre of the photon, both lengthwise and radially, but they theoretically
extend to infinity.



The aim is to find a mechanism by which the E and B fields of
one photon (or light beam) might change the velocity of the
E and B fields of another. There is no known indication that
this does or can happen.


Oh no? At a large scale E and B fields interact routinely.
Electromagnets work based on this principle, as does the
standard vacuum-tube computer monitor and electric motors.

You didn't read what I said.


However, QM does weird things.

For instance I don't think the velocity of water waves varies
when two collide or interfere. However, the effect in light
only has to be very minute to make the H-aether concept a
possibility.


Correct, they do not change.

Maybe they change very, very slightly.






A googlesearch for 'photon-photon interactions'
returns over 1000 hits. They appear to be all about
high intensity and high speed experiments however. That
isn't really what I'm loking for.


I suppose not, but then your effects are much more
subtle, if I understand you correctly. If 6 * 10^23
molecules occupy 1/40 of a cubic meter (which they do,
roughly, at room temperature and 1 atm pressure), or
2.4 * 10^25 molecules per cubic meter, this translates
into a molecule-molecule distance of about 3.5 nm. Average
molecule-molecule distance in empty space is about 1 cm.
Average photon-photon distance may be much greater.

It gets more interesting when velocities are involved.
IIRC, O2 molecules whiz around at about 450 m/s -- quite
fast compared to their intermolecule distance, but much
slower than a photon (300,000 km/s).


I'm thinking of situations where the photons from a particular
source become completely isolated from each other. It is