Science > Physics > [More on: part 3] Explaining the photo electric effect from the wave perspective.
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Jan Panteltje" |
| Date: |
25 Aug 2005 04:18:42 AM |
| Object: |
[More on: part 3] Explaining the photo electric effect from the wave perspective. |
I actually started to dream about this, did not happen for many
years, last time was in my school days, when I dreamt I was an electron
that traveled through all the components ... After that I
never had any problem understanding electronics....
So, then when I woke up and this problem was first on my mind, like
equations flying by... I though HEY that is the solution again.
The main problem was how to create the freak wave that expelled the
electron from orbit as a result of the incoming EM radiation,
with the right kinetic energy.
Now think you are sitting inside (small space I know ;-) ) the electron.
Also assume for the sake of argument a simple Bohr like orbit (later
we will see it also holds for more complicated ones).
) A
) e
) B N D
)
) C
In this drawing (use fixed width font) N is the nucleus of the atom.
e is you in the electron, and A, B, C and D are points on the orbit.
So think flat 2D plane for a moment.
The waves of the left are the incoming light EM radiation.
Now L. De Broglie [3] states that an electron has associated with it its
own frequency.
When you think about that a bit, you could call that its 'resonance'
frequency (or rather its resonance).
This is an important observation / understanding.
So you are in capsule e with a resonant frequency fe.
As you move at (near relativistic?) speed v from A to B (circle) you will
see the frequency of the incoming light change (Doppler).
Use relativistic formula if you like.
You have probably been in a bus, and the driver had this foot of the gas,
and everything started vibrating badly, you had to protect your notebook's
hard disk by holding it in you hand, and he would do that at every traffic
light ;-).
You are in an electron, and it is sensitive to those electromagnetic waves,
and starts moving with these.
So, anyways, you experience some vibration, and at some point between A and C
the frequency YOU see from the incoming light is the same as your resonance
frequency, your capsule starts vibrating wildly only limited
by the amplitude of the incoming light, and you are ejected from orbit,
with the kinetic energy transferred from that light.
This sets a minimum required value for the incoming light frequency.
If you are a mathematimagician and make it to Sweden with this before I
do, then you are required at least to:
1) mention Jan Panteltje as the one who came up with this solution.
2) Wear my lake on mars tshirt when receiving the prize.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/space/mars/lake2colordetail.jpg
3) Gimme all the money.
FYI readings:
Photo electric effect:
http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/physics/quant/node3.html
[1] What not:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/mod1.html#c3
[2] Materials work function
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/tables/photoelec.html
[3] L. De Broglie's 1923 Comptes rendus Note
http://www.davis-inc.com/physics/broglie/broglie.shtml
.
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| User: "TomGee" |
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| Title: Re: [More on: part 3] Explaining the photo electric effect from the wave perspective. |
25 Aug 2005 08:38:30 PM |
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Jan Panteltje wrote:
I actually started to dream about this, did not happen for many
years, last time was in my school days, when I dreamt I was an electron
that traveled through all the components ... After that I
never had any problem understanding electronics....
So, then when I woke up and this problem was first on my mind, like
equations flying by... I though HEY that is the solution again.
All of those are quite reasonable events our brains construct about our
thoughts. Some people brush them away; others enjoy them and try to
work with them.
The main problem was how to create the freak wave that expelled the
electron from orbit as a result of the incoming EM radiation,
with the right kinetic energy.
From your statements below it looks like you figured out how to do
that.
Now think you are sitting inside (small space I know ;-) ) the electron.
Also assume for the sake of argument a simple Bohr like orbit (later
we will see it also holds for more complicated ones).
) A
) e
) B N D
)
) C
In this drawing (use fixed width font) N is the nucleus of the atom.
e is you in the electron, and A, B, C and D are points on the orbit.
So think flat 2D plane for a moment.
The waves of the left are the incoming light EM radiation.
Now L. De Broglie [3] states that an electron has associated with it its
own frequency.
When you think about that a bit, you could call that its 'resonance'
frequency (or rather its resonance).
This is an important observation / understanding.
So you are in capsule e with a resonant frequency fe.
As you move at (near relativistic?) speed v from A to B (circle) you will
see the frequency of the incoming light change (Doppler).
Use relativistic formula if you like.
Yes, I see that in your illustration and in your explanation.
You have probably been in a bus, and the driver had this foot of the gas,
and everything started vibrating badly, you had to protect your notebook's
hard disk by holding it in you hand, and he would do that at every traffic
light ;-).
You are in an electron, and it is sensitive to those electromagnetic waves,
and starts moving with these.
Of course, we assume an electron is always in motion, so I assume you
mean that it begins to move as well wrt the incoming em waves. I see
where you're going.
So, anyways, you experience some vibration, and at some point between A and C
the frequency YOU see from the incoming light is the same as your resonance
frequency, your capsule starts vibrating wildly only limited
by the amplitude of the incoming light, and you are ejected from orbit,
with the kinetic energy transferred from that light.
This sets a minimum required value for the incoming light frequency.
Okay, the "freak wave" you needed is the "vibration" motion caused by
the incoming photons on the electron, and when such vibration frequency
reaches the electron's own frequency, that is the treshold where faster
vibrations begin to dislodge the electron from the atom.
You need more energy to get faster frequency and the energy in a lw
corresponds to photon frequencies so shorter lws are of higher
frequency and so you have a range to work with to be able to say that
somewhere in the light spectrum there are em waves which have higher
frequencies than the electron's resonant frequency. Assuming that a lw
has associated with it large quantities of photons which give the lw
the photon momentum it carries with which to dislodge an electron, you
have adequately explained, I think, your point about your explanation
of the photoelectric effect.
I see no conflict with my contention that photons do not move along
with lws, nor that they are created "in place" by lws, nor with what
happens in the PE. Photons appear to move along with lws but they
cannot, having some inherent mass, contrary to current thought. My
claim that photons are created by collisions with lws does not mean
they cannot also act to dislodge a photon at certain frequencies and
not at others.
Until someone finds a way to overthrow your posit about the PE, I agree
with it, as it does not conflict with my idea of light creation and the
two could be said to support each other, although in an indirect way.
If you are a mathematimagician and make it to Sweden with this before I
do, then you are required at least to:
1) mention Jan Panteltje as the one who came up with this solution.
2) Wear my lake on mars tshirt when receiving the prize.
http://panteltje.com/panteltje/space/mars/lake2colordetail.jpg
3) Gimme all the money.
I think posting here in this most of all public places should help
protect your idea from any claims of others that they thought of it
first. It seems specific enough to where no one can steal it by
applying it to a wider scope theory. You may want to look into
copyright rules to see if you can go further with protection for it. I
wrote an essay for my ideas and registered my copyright way back in
1996. I am working on a rewrite but I still need more proper input for
my ideas than that which I have received in all this time I have been
posting. I get blank stares from most who should be able to contribute
to my ideas and stupid remarks from those incapable of understanding
it. I encourage you to review my ideas to see how they may fit in with
yours or whether you can find reasonable arguments against them.
In spite of the stupid remarks your post got here, you have, I believe,
come up with a very good explanation so far about how the PE works,
possibly. Now think about how to fit it in more solidly against the
arguments against it, and that will help you to argue for it all the
more. You have succeeded in overthrowing the (very legitimate)
argument about frequency and quantity, I think.
.
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