| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Hurt" |
| Date: |
12 Aug 2005 05:33:12 PM |
| Object: |
Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=4
Fact: Water vapour or clouds, which makes up on average about 3 % of
the atmosphere by volume, and - according to several researchers -
about 60% by effect, is the major greenhouse gas. 97% of greenhouse
gases are water vapour by volume. Moreover, because of its molecular
weight and absorptive capacity, water vapour is 3000 times more
effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Those attributing climate
change to CO2 rarely mention this important fact.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy?lnk=li&hl=en
Oh, here's a well-balanced educated site:
http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/aier_on_conspiracy_19.html
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
12 Aug 2005 06:18:45 PM |
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Hurt wrote:
http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=4
Fact: Water vapour or clouds, which makes up on average about 3 % of
the atmosphere by volume, and - according to several researchers -
about 60% by effect, is the major greenhouse gas. 97% of greenhouse
gases are water vapour by volume. Moreover, because of its molecular
weight and absorptive capacity, water vapour is 3000 times more
effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Those attributing climate
change to CO2 rarely mention this important fact.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy?lnk=li&hl=en
Oh, here's a well-balanced educated site:
http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/aier_on_conspiracy_19.html
Water is NATURAL. It cannot possibly hurt the Earth. Only MAN-MADE
(anthropogenic) carbon dioxide causes the Greenhouse Effect. Thus
India and Africa burning everything their reproductive warrior
bastards can get their poxy hands on - and breathing - are good. You
driving to work is BAD BAD BAD.
Only a Carbon Tax on Everything can save the Earth. Socialist
countries are exempt because they are Gaian.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
12 Aug 2005 10:23:06 PM |
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"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:42FD2E55.A84EE6B0@hate.spam.net...
[snip crap]
Idiot.
Androcles
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
12 Aug 2005 09:48:00 PM |
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Uncle Al wrote:
Hurt wrote:
http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=4
Fact: Water vapour or clouds, which makes up on average about 3 % of
the atmosphere by volume, and - according to several researchers -
about 60% by effect, is the major greenhouse gas. 97% of greenhouse
gases are water vapour by volume. Moreover, because of its molecular
weight and absorptive capacity, water vapour is 3000 times more
effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Those attributing climate
change to CO2 rarely mention this important fact.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy?lnk=li&hl=en
Oh, here's a well-balanced educated site:
http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/aier_on_conspiracy_19.html
Water is NATURAL. It cannot possibly hurt the Earth. Only MAN-MADE
(anthropogenic) carbon dioxide causes the Greenhouse Effect. Thus
India and Africa burning everything their reproductive warrior
bastards can get their poxy hands on - and breathing - are good. You
driving to work is BAD BAD BAD.
Oh, I bet you're congratulating yourself on making such a gaian
observation. Unfortuantely you're wrong. Fortunately, the chance of
emperical proof is very, very remote. But not quite zero. A fair size
comet hitting the Earth in an ocean would put enough H2O in the
atmosphere to really ruin your perm.
Only a Carbon Tax on Everything can save the Earth. Socialist
countries are exempt because they are Gaian.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
12 Aug 2005 07:01:35 PM |
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Hurt wrote:
http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=4
Fact: Water vapour or clouds, which makes up on average about 3 % of
the atmosphere by volume, and - according to several researchers -
about 60% by effect, is the major greenhouse gas. 97% of greenhouse
gases are water vapour by volume. Moreover, because of its molecular
weight and absorptive capacity, water vapour is 3000 times more
effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Those attributing climate
change to CO2 rarely mention this important fact.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy?lnk=li&hl=en
Oh, here's a well-balanced educated site:
http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/aier_on_conspiracy_19.html
Although CO2 is not itself an important greenhouse gas, it is an
important component of the oxidizing capacity of the troposphere,
and therefore one of the most important players.
You might want to do a bit more self education.
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| User: "Roger Coppock" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
12 Aug 2005 10:17:17 PM |
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CO2 is an oxidizer?!
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
12 Aug 2005 10:00:06 PM |
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In sci.physics, Sam Wormley
<swormley1@mchsi.com>
wrote
on Sat, 13 Aug 2005 00:01:35 GMT
<yLaLe.244013$x96.127899@attbi_s72>:
Hurt wrote:
http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=4
Fact: Water vapour or clouds, which makes up on average about 3 % of
the atmosphere by volume, and - according to several researchers -
about 60% by effect, is the major greenhouse gas. 97% of greenhouse
gases are water vapour by volume. Moreover, because of its molecular
weight and absorptive capacity, water vapour is 3000 times more
effective than CO2 as a greenhouse gas. Those attributing climate
change to CO2 rarely mention this important fact.
http://groups-beta.google.com/group/alt.conspiracy?lnk=li&hl=en
Oh, here's a well-balanced educated site:
http://www.cooperativeindividualism.org/aier_on_conspiracy_19.html
Although CO2 is not itself an important greenhouse gas, it is an
important component of the oxidizing capacity of the troposphere,
and therefore one of the most important players.
You might want to do a bit more self education.
It may not matter. Even if CO2 is a relatively
insignificant bit player, it could tip the balance of
radiative heat by causing just a little warmer atmosphere,
which in turn causes just a little more water to evaporate,
which causes a little more warmth, more water, more
warmth...phew, is it me or is it getting hot? :-) (The
release of methane from Siberia and from the oceans will
not help.)
The bad news is that this water will have to come down
at some point, presumably as moonsoon floods. The good
news is that, if we can get the water in the right place
(say, the Sahara), things might actually grow there, fixing
the carbon. Of course, one gets the notion of attempting
to redirect a hurricane with a piece of string... :-)
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
12 Aug 2005 11:34:53 PM |
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Sam Wormley wrote:
Although CO2 is not itself an important greenhouse gas, it is an
important component of the oxidizing capacity of the troposphere,
and therefore one of the most important players.
I screwed up--The material I was reading was referring to CO and not
CO2 as I have incorrectly posted. My apologies!
-Sam
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| User: "Hurt" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
13 Aug 2005 10:51:19 AM |
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I screwed up--The material I was reading was referring to CO and not
CO2 as I have incorrectly posted. My apologies!
Don't apologize prematurely, CO2 does affect the balance. Perhaps
these links may help. Read them; summarize them; then explain them to
me.
http://www.atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca/people/loic/chemistry.html
http://www-as.harvard.edu/chemistry/trop/publications/jacob2000/text.html
http://web.mit.edu/afs/athena.mit.edu/org/g/globalchange/www/rpt35.html
http://www.ciesin.org/docs/011-457/011-457.html
http://www.atmosp.physics.utoronto.ca/MAM/plummer.ppt
http://moab.colorado.edu/ENVS5002/GlobalPhysicalSystem.ppt
Real baloney, not phony baloney.
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| User: "Roger Coppock" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
13 Aug 2005 01:23:29 AM |
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Good greenhouse gases have three or more atoms in their molecules.
CO, O2, and N2 aren't greenhouse gases.
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| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
13 Aug 2005 10:00:25 AM |
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In alt.conspiracy, Roger Coppock
<rcoppock@adnc.com>
wrote
on 12 Aug 2005 23:23:29 -0700
<1123914209.026414.51130@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>:
Good greenhouse gases have three or more atoms in their molecules.
CO, O2, and N2 aren't greenhouse gases.
At best, this is ridiculously simplistic. The main requirement is
the entrapment of heat, and even then, it's not a binary thing;
if one gives more energy to an object it will get hotter but the
heat flow will eventually equalize again -- at a higher temperature.
See, for example, the pictorial diagram on
http://www.everythingweather.com/atmospheric-radiation/transmission.shtml
for an idea of the complexity. Some of it isn't quite
right; the atmosphere and surface may absorb heat but it
also has to emit it again. There are also issues regarding
heat energy storage, probably in the ocean, for the most part,
that are not shown here.
The graph is also of interest. Presumably the radiance
is from the Earth itself, and by far the biggest blocker
of surface-to-space is H2O, at least on this graph (one
would have wanted extension into the 100 nm region;
visible light is from 300 nm to 700 nm, approximately).
Carbon monoxide doesn't even show up.
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
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| User: "Roger Coppock" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
13 Aug 2005 12:58:42 PM |
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Yes, it is ridiculously simplistic, but quite true.
Can you name a greenhouse gas with less than
three atoms per molecule? I can't.
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| User: "Puppet_Sock" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
12 Aug 2005 11:24:30 PM |
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Sam Wormley wrote:
[snip]
Although CO2 is not itself an important greenhouse gas, it is an
important component of the oxidizing capacity of the troposphere,
and therefore one of the most important players.
Eh? WTF does that mean Sam? What effect does CO2 have on
"the oxidizing capacity of the tropsopher" and what
difference does that make to greenhouse effect?
And how does that make CO2 important?
Socks
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| User: "Roger Coppock" |
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| Title: Re: Myth 4: CO2 is the most common greenhouse gas. |
12 Aug 2005 05:48:46 PM |
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The amount of water vapor in the air depends on the temperature.
Cool environments have less and warm have more water vapor.
An individual molecule of water vapor has a very short lifetime in
the atmosphere, a couple of days on average.
Other greenhouse gases have a much longer atmospheric lifetime.
It's about a century for CO2. Add CO2 to the atmosphere and it
stays there, trapping infra red and warming the planet. That warming
caused by additional CO2 causes more water to evaporate,
increasing water vapor. This is known as "water vapor feedback,"
and it doubles the power of man-made greenhoues gases.
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