| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"John Schoenfeld" |
| Date: |
30 Jan 2005 06:11:19 PM |
| Object: |
Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
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| User: "Bilge" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 04:19:44 PM |
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John Schoenfeld:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
So what? If space[time] can't be curved, it can't be flat either.
``Flatness'' is just a special case of curvture.
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| User: "Koobee Wublee" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
01 Feb 2005 12:19:05 AM |
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"Bilge" <dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net> wrote in message
news:slrncvthpb.fam.dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net...
So what? If space[time] can't be curved, it can't be flat either.
``Flatness'' is just a special case of curvture.
Then, please show me exactly why any mass would cause the curvature in
spacetime?
I do not think Einstein even answered that one.
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| User: "Bilge" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
01 Feb 2005 03:53:48 AM |
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Koobee Wublee:
"Bilge" <dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net> wrote in message
news:slrncvthpb.fam.dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net...
So what? If space[time] can't be curved, it can't be flat either.
``Flatness'' is just a special case of curvture.
Then, please show me exactly why any mass would cause the curvature in
spacetime?
Please show me exactly what makes spacetime anything at all,
curved, flat, 3-d, 4-d, 39-d, whatever. As soon as you give up
your preconceptions about what you think is ``normal,'' you'll
stop thinking that mass ``does'' something to ``normal'' spacetime.
Spacetime and matter are inextricably linked.
I do not think Einstein even answered that one.
Sure he did.
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| User: "Bill Hobba" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
01 Feb 2005 05:40:44 PM |
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"Koobee Wublee" <kublai@cox.net> wrote in message
news:ybFLd.838$Tt.539@fed1read05...
"Bilge" <dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net> wrote in message
news:slrncvthpb.fam.dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net...
So what? If space[time] can't be curved, it can't be flat either.
``Flatness'' is just a special case of curvture.
Then, please show me exactly why any mass would cause the curvature in
spacetime?
Please show me exactly how and why electrons (and other fundamental
particles that carry electric charge) create an electric field - assuming
they create them. All we know is they have an electric filed associated
with them.
I do not think Einstein even answered that one.
So science is answering questions you think important? Get real.
Bill
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| User: "Dirk Van de moortel" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 04:22:53 PM |
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"Bilge" <dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net> wrote in message news:slrncvthpb.fam.dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net...
John Schoenfeld:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
So what? If space[time] can't be curved, it can't be flat either.
``Flatness'' is just a special case of curvture.
Good one :-)
Dirk Vdm
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| User: "Bill Hobba" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 11:09:50 PM |
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"Dirk Van de moortel" <dirkvandemoortel@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:1dyLd.10859$Eo3.685149@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
"Bilge" <dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net> wrote in message
news:slrncvthpb.fam.dubious@radioactivex.lebesque-al.net...
John Schoenfeld:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
So what? If space[time] can't be curved, it can't be flat either.
``Flatness'' is just a special case of curvture.
Good one :-)
Dirk Vdm
Drat Dirk - you stole my thunder. It was good - very good.
Thanks to both Bilge and Dirk.
Bill
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| User: "Y.Porat" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
02 Feb 2005 10:22:55 AM |
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Mr Van der shmatte
cucumber like is also sort of curvature
---------
keep smiling you remain nothing but a clown
Y.Porat
-----------------------
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| User: "John Schoenfeld" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
01 Feb 2005 11:47:05 AM |
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Bilge wrote:
John Schoenfeld:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it
can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
So what? If space[time] can't be curved, it can't be flat either.
``Flatness'' is just a special case of curvture.
That's true.
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| User: "Harry" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 02:44:08 AM |
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"John Schoenfeld" <j.schoenfeld@programmer.net> wrote in message
news:1107130278.981346.260990@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
Of course, it's a word game. I suppose that Tesla meant that such
descriptions don't have physical meaning, and I agree with that.
Harald
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 10:22:02 AM |
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Harry wrote:
Of course, it's a word game. I suppose that Tesla meant that such
descriptions don't have physical meaning, and I agree with that.
Those physically meaningless descriptions produce physically correct
predictions. Since the business of physics is prediction, the
imputiation of being physically meaningless is meaningless.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Harry" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 11:29:36 AM |
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"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:36749eF4u68irU1@individual.net...
Harry wrote:
Of course, it's a word game. I suppose that Tesla meant that such
descriptions don't have physical meaning, and I agree with that.
Those physically meaningless descriptions produce physically correct
predictions. Since the business of physics is prediction, the
imputiation of being physically meaningless is meaningless.
Bob Kolker
Funny. :-)
There is no doubt about it, certain mathematical descriptions come in handy
for predicting physics.
1. A description such as "bent space" (which generally implies the conformal
mapping of a curved coordinate system to a Cartesian coordinate system) has
in itself no physical meaning - just like Voigt's transformations.
2. But at the same time an implicit meaning is awarded to "bent space" just
as Newton explicitly did with his "absolute space" in the context of
observed physical effects, and in that sense it has a descriptive physical
meaning.
I told you, it's a word game.
Harald
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 11:37:01 AM |
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Funny. :-)
There is no doubt about it, certain mathematical descriptions come in handy
for predicting physics.
It is observables that are predicted.
1. A description such as "bent space" (which generally implies the conformal
mapping of a curved coordinate system to a Cartesian coordinate system) has
in itself no physical meaning - just like Voigt's transformations.
Curved spacetime. See Ricci Tensors and Riemann Tensors. They are
intrinsic to the manifold in question and NOT dependent on the
particular co-ordinate system used.
2. But at the same time an implicit meaning is awarded to "bent space" just
as Newton explicitly did with his "absolute space" in the context of
observed physical effects, and in that sense it has a descriptive physical
meaning.
I told you, it's a word game.
That word game has lead to A-bombs and computers. You are an ignoramus.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Harry" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
01 Feb 2005 03:46:48 AM |
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"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:3678m1F4ss7aaU1@individual.net...
Funny. :-)
There is no doubt about it, certain mathematical descriptions come in
handy
for predicting physics.
It is observables that are predicted.
Sure.
1. A description such as "bent space" (which generally implies the
conformal
mapping of a curved coordinate system to a Cartesian coordinate system)
has
in itself no physical meaning - just like Voigt's transformations.
Curved spacetime. See Ricci Tensors and Riemann Tensors. They are
intrinsic to the manifold in question and NOT dependent on the
particular co-ordinate system used.
"Space" can only be curved as compared to space that isn't equally curved.
2. But at the same time an implicit meaning is awarded to "bent space"
just
as Newton explicitly did with his "absolute space" in the context of
observed physical effects, and in that sense it has a descriptive
physical
meaning.
I told you, it's a word game.
That word game has lead to A-bombs and computers. You are an ignoramus.
Don't give me crap. How you call it is irrelevant for the calculations.
Harald
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| User: "AllYou!" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 10:29:52 AM |
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"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:36749eF4u68irU1@individual.net...
Harry wrote:
Of course, it's a word game. I suppose that Tesla meant that such
descriptions don't have physical meaning, and I agree with that.
Those physically meaningless descriptions produce physically correct
predictions. Since the business of physics is prediction, the
imputiation of being physically meaningless is meaningless.
The business of *phys*ics is to produce predictions of that which is *phys*ical.
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 10:43:14 AM |
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AllYou! wrote:
The business of *phys*ics is to produce predictions of that which is *phys*ical.
Wrong. The predictions must be correct.
Predictions which are both physical and wrong are ka ka.
Besides only quantitative physical predictions are testable anyway.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "AllYou!" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 10:51:47 AM |
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"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:3675h7F4ue4lsU1@individual.net...
AllYou! wrote:
The business of *phys*ics is to produce predictions of that which is *phys*ical.
Wrong. The predictions must be correct.
Predictions which are both physical and wrong are ka ka.
Besides only quantitative physical predictions are testable anyway.
Then the post to which I replied was doubly wrong. "Since the business of physics is
prediction........" I simply added ".....of that which is physical". However, more
accurately, I should've added ".......of the behavior of that which is physical."
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| User: "Androcles" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
30 Jan 2005 09:15:43 PM |
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"John Schoenfeld" <j.schoenfeld@programmer.net> wrote in message
news:1107130278.981346.260990@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
Smart man, Tesla.
Androcles
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| User: "Dirk Van de moortel" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 03:17:43 AM |
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"Androcles" <dummy@dummy.com> wrote in message news:zphLd.29679$v8.17369@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"John Schoenfeld" <j.schoenfeld@programmer.net> wrote in message
news:1107130278.981346.260990@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
Smart man, Tesla.
Yes, but a bit daft.
Stupid pig, Androcles, and very daft.
Dirk Vdm
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
30 Jan 2005 07:33:24 PM |
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John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
"Autoritätsdusel ist der größte Feind der Wahrheit," Albert Einstein,
1901
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "penguinista" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 11:38:23 AM |
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Uncle Al wrote:
John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
"Autoritätsdusel ist der größte Feind der Wahrheit," Albert Einstein,
1901
And for those of us who don't speak german?
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
01 Feb 2005 12:46:07 AM |
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"penguinista" <cal@not.splitreflection.com> wrote in message
news:41fe6d0a$0$66663$d368eab@news.calweb.com...
Uncle Al wrote:
John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it
can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
"Autoritätsdusel ist der größte Feind der Wahrheit," Albert
Einstein,
1901
And for those of us who don't speak german?
You'll be left in the cold unless you learn it or ask a friend to
translate.
Franz
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| User: "Gregory L. Hansen" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
01 Feb 2005 09:36:33 AM |
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In article <ctn8je$b7l$3@titan.btinternet.com>,
Franz Heymann <franz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote:
"penguinista" <cal@not.splitreflection.com> wrote in message
news:41fe6d0a$0$66663$d368eab@news.calweb.com...
Uncle Al wrote:
John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it
can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
"Autoritätsdusel ist der größte Feind der Wahrheit," Albert
Einstein,
1901
And for those of us who don't speak german?
You'll be left in the cold unless you learn it or ask a friend to
translate.
That "dusel" part has me stumped.
--
"For every problem there is a solution which is simple, clean and wrong."
-- Henry Louis Mencken
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 11:57:18 AM |
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penguinista wrote:
And for those of us who don't speak german?
My guess. Authoritarianism is the greatest enemy of Truth.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
01 Feb 2005 12:46:07 AM |
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"robert j. kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.net> wrote in message
news:3679s3F4unk5fU1@individual.net...
penguinista wrote:
And for those of us who don't speak german?
My guess. Authoritarianism is the greatest enemy of Truth.
"Being made dizzy by authority is the greatest enemy of truth."
Franz
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| User: "John Schoenfeld" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
30 Jan 2005 07:57:35 PM |
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Uncle Al wrote:
John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it
can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
"Autorit=E4tsdusel ist der gr=F6=DFte Feind der Wahrheit," Albert
Einstein,
1901
Auctorita parilis verum-i.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "Too Many Kooks Spoil the Brothel" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
12 Feb 2005 04:50:48 AM |
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John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it
can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
But Tesla would have had to admit that space, pretty well by
definition, has at least one property -- EXTENT.
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| User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
12 Feb 2005 05:18:53 AM |
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"Too Many Kooks Spoil the Brothel" <brightice2001@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:1108205448.139576.91670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it
can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
But Tesla would have had to admit that space, pretty well by
definition, has at least one property -- EXTENT.
Oh, do come off it. That isn't a physical property.
Next you'll be saying it has the properties of being colourless,
odourless, tasteless, inedible (or edible as the case may be) and we'll
think it is water.
Androcles.
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| User: "Bilge" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
12 Feb 2005 07:39:50 AM |
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Androcles, revs up a dilapidated, but marginally functional neuron:
"Too Many Kooks Spoil the Brothel" <brightice2001@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in
message news:1108205448.139576.91670@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it
can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
But Tesla would have had to admit that space, pretty well by
definition, has at least one property -- EXTENT.
Oh, do come off it. That isn't a physical property.
I suggest an experiment. Try crawling into a microwave oven and
you'll notice the lack of extent.
Next you'll be saying it has the properties of being colourless,
Bugger the interlock and turn it on and you'll notice the difference
between the lack of microwaves and the situation in which you find
yourself after turning it on. You could do the colour thing with
just the light bulb, but the microwaves really emphasize the spectrum
over which colourless may be considered applicable.
odourless, tasteless, inedible (or edible as the case may be) and we'll
think it is water.
Since ice floats in outer space just like it does in water, what
else could it be?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
30 Jan 2005 06:42:14 PM |
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John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it
can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
It's the theory that tells you in what sense curved space (a pure
theoretic model anyway) has properties and what those properties are.
Patrick
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| User: "AllYou!" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
31 Jan 2005 08:10:24 AM |
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<reany@asu.edu> wrote in message
news:1107132134.139411.17380@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it
can
have no properties.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#On_Relativity
It's the theory that tells you in what sense curved space (a pure
theoretic model anyway) has properties and what those properties are.
The theory only tells you what it predicts. Observations tell how credible the theory is.
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| User: "robert j. kolker" |
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| Title: Re: Nikola Tesla on Relativity |
30 Jan 2005 07:18:16 PM |
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John Schoenfeld wrote:
'I hold that space cannot be curved, for the simple reason that it can
have no properties.'
Tesla was wrong about a lot of things. He believed in aether. And he
thought it was possible to deliver electric power wirelessly AND
efficiently.
He was also right about a lot of things. He developed the system of
alternating current machinery which benefits us all. He is also the true
inventor of radio, not Marconi. Tesla was producing fm frequency radio
waves while Marconi was struggling with wireless Morse telegraphs. If
Tesla was less of a nut cake, the distress on the Titanic could have
been transmitted to all the ships at sea via an fm broadcast.
Bob Kolker
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