| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Douglas Eagleson" |
| Date: |
22 Dec 2004 11:01:02 AM |
| Object: |
Observing Orbits on Atoms |
To postulate actual orbits and not just a state
of the quanta is akin to blackhole conjecture.
An independent nonquanta means of observation
is required.
And none exists. That is the beauty of conjecture theory,
it holds up well to reciting theorist's examination.
Always consider the spin momentum to be a simple
variable of state.
Douglas Eagleson- Gaithersburg, MD USA
.
|
|
| User: "Uncle Al" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
22 Dec 2004 11:14:12 AM |
|
|
Douglas Eagleson wrote:
To postulate actual orbits and not just a state
of the quanta is akin to blackhole conjecture.
[snip]
Boring idiot.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "tadchem" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
22 Dec 2004 11:55:57 AM |
|
|
Douglas Eagleson wrote:
To postulate actual orbits and not just a state
of the quanta is akin to blackhole conjecture.
An independent nonquanta means of observation
is required.
And none exists. That is the beauty of conjecture theory,
it holds up well to reciting theorist's examination.
Atomic and molecular orbital theory also stands up well to empirical
observations such as done by crystallographers and in x-ray diffraction
studies.
..
..
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
.
|
|
|
| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
23 Dec 2004 01:04:26 AM |
|
|
Here goes another smug handwaving parrot!!
Y.Porat
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Douglas Eagleson" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
30 Dec 2004 04:23:15 PM |
|
|
tadchem wrote:
Douglas Eagleson wrote:
To postulate actual orbits and not just a state
of the quanta is akin to blackhole conjecture.
An independent nonquanta means of observation
is required.
And none exists. That is the beauty of conjecture theory,
it holds up well to reciting theorist's examination.
Atomic and molecular orbital theory also stands up well to empirical
observations such as done by crystallographers and in x-ray
diffraction
studies.
.
.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
A diffraction study is all art work. Actual crytal structure inference
from diffraction is as good as the assumptions.
As a relative comparision and categorization of real crystals,
the art is proven, I agree.
I speak of real quanta, not xray diffraction quanta.
Eagleson- Gaithersburg, MD USA
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Sam Wormley" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
22 Dec 2004 11:11:39 AM |
|
|
Molecular orbitals come into view (Dec 15)
http://physicsweb.org/article/news/8/12/9
Scientists have succeeded in imaging a single-electron wavefunction or
"orbital" in a molecule for the first time. David Villeneuve of the
National Research Council of Canada (NRC) in Ottawa and colleagues used
femtosecond lasers to reconstruct the highest occupied molecular orbital
in nitrogen molecules (J Itatani et al. 2004 Nature 432 867). These
electrons are responsible for the chemical properties of molecules.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
23 Dec 2004 02:58:37 AM |
|
|
Mr Wormly yess indeed e;ectrons are resopnsible for the chemical
prooerties of molecules
yet it is still not known that there is a direct connectionbetween
nuclear structure and atomic structure
much more direct than known and immagined yet
so i bring here my quote and axplanation for the
observation you brouhgt
imho it is unprecedentd :
it is from another tread of yours called ' scintists has succeeded to
..... etc:
---------------------
if you dont mind
the 'valence of Nitrogen is -- 3
it migh tbe that in the N2
three of the orbitals of each are 'crosing arms' to make a bond
between themselves
that is in the direction of face to face- ie on the sorter distance
between them
now ther is another thing that is still is not known:
*the nitrogen atom has another orbitlat origined from a *deutron edge*
directed to the opposite side of the 3 other orbitals
so it might be that the immaging that was mentioned by the op
is rather describing those two 'deuteron chain of orbitals'
that are directed 'outwards* of the bundle of the two nitrogens.
hope i made my geometric knowledge understandable
all the best
Y.porat
end of quote
------------------
now m,y question is
is there another better more detailed explanation about
he finding you brought ??
------------------
TIA
Y.Porat
---------------------------------
.
|
|
|
| User: "Franz Heymann" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
23 Dec 2004 09:31:06 AM |
|
|
"Y.Porat" <maporat@012.net.il> wrote in message
news:1103792317.809792.120210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Mr Wormly yess indeed e;ectrons are resopnsible for the chemical
prooerties of molecules
yet it is still not known that there is a direct connectionbetween
nuclear structure and atomic structure
The connection might well not be known to you, but it would be quite
wrong of you to extrapolate from there to saying that this ignorance
is general.
If you ask nicely, I will tell you what the connection is.
[snip]
Franz
.
|
|
|
| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
23 Dec 2004 10:29:28 AM |
|
|
Frantz
i am afraied you dint read my last thread and more sad
i am afriedyou didnt understtod it
so enough with hand waving and lets be more specific:
you probably saw the thread of wormly
i think it is called 'scintists suceeded to .... view
(or something else ) the structure of the electron distribution
of the molecule N2 right ? so ......
please let us know acording to your theories and knowlwdge and
understanding :
why do we see there two orbital spread at opposite sides of that N2
while we know
*that the valence of N is 3 (again 3)
TIA
Y.Porat
--------------------------------
.
|
|
|
| User: "Franz Heymann" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
23 Dec 2004 04:43:38 PM |
|
|
"Y.Porat" <maporat@012.net.il> wrote in message
news:1103819368.368026.42210@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Frantz
i am afraied you dint read my last thread and more sad
i am afriedyou didnt understtod it
so enough with hand waving and lets be more specific:
you probably saw the thread of wormly
i think it is called 'scintists suceeded to .... view
(or something else ) the structure of the electron distribution
of the molecule N2 right ? so ......
please let us know acording to your theories and knowlwdge and
understanding :
why do we see there two orbital spread at opposite sides of that N2
while we know
*that the valence of N is 3 (again 3)
In the note to which I responded, you asked about the connection
between nuclear structure and atomic structure.
You appear to have ducked away from that.
Franz
.
|
|
|
| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
24 Dec 2004 03:13:03 AM |
|
|
No!!
my explanation of the latest data presentd by Wormly
about sort of 'seeing' the N2 atom and its electrons orbitals
my explanation is a direct outcome of the *nuclear structure*
of the nitroge atom
first you have to understand my explanation
if not
you can ask your friend Buerbacher who got my book years ago
the book is 'A model of the nucleus and the Atom'
it was written more than 10 years ago
you can ask him wether i just 'drawed that explanation just now
or wether it is based on my model long ago much before (10 tears!)
before i first saw - last a few weeks ago
the new 'view' of N2.
----------------------
now
in that book one can find the *nuclear structure of the nitrigen atom
(amond the description of all the elements of the periodic table-
Nitrogen is just 'small cash' there)
(again = the nuclear structue!1)
but not only nuclear - the atomic as well
the atomic is a direct tangible extention of the nuclear structure.
ie the electrons are 'steming' only from specific locations of the nuc.
in another place i explained there the tripple bond say of carbon
and that is as well a direct result of nuclear *and atomic * structure
Carbon and Nitrogen are very close elements with only a slight
diffence
of one nuclear orbilal
the Nitrogen has a deuteron orbital which the Carbon does not have
it is diracted n one of the tetraheder structlre of it
so if 3 electroj orbitals are connected to the other 3 of the second
Nitrogen
the deutron orbital is directed just *perpendicular* to that 'bundle'
of two nitrogens (connected in a triple bond- even a double bond will
give
a similar structure in which the free orbital is directed outwards
of that bundle and that is what we wee in the new special view
of N2 presents
now
is there an existing explanation of qm (before!! my above explanation)
that is (actually not *is* but *was*!! preceeding my explanation??
TIA
Y.Porat
----------------
if you thinkl that i just drawed it from my s
.
|
|
|
| User: "Franz Heymann" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
24 Dec 2004 02:04:05 PM |
|
|
"Y.Porat" <maporat@012.net.il> wrote in message
news:1103879583.344631.276840@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
No!!
my explanation of the latest data presentd by Wormly
Wormley
about sort of 'seeing' the N2 atom and its electrons orbitals
my explanation is a direct outcome of the *nuclear structure*
of the nitroge atom
Go and take a runnoing jump at yourself.
I did not want yet another repeat of your "explanation".
I have heard you spew that nonsense many times.
I want some actual caclulations, or a link to such calculations
You did not provide anything of the kind.
Now go away, you miserable failure.
first you have to understand my explanation
if not
you can ask your friend Buerbacher
Feuerbacher
who got my book years ago
the book is 'A model of the nucleus and the Atom'
I know. He trashed it publicly and completely.
it was written more than 10 years ago
you can ask him wether i just 'drawed that explanation just now
or wether it is based on my model long ago much before (10 tears!)
before i first saw - last a few weeks ago
the new 'view' of N2.
----------------------
now
in that book one can find the *nuclear structure of the nitrigen
atom
(amond the description of all the elements of the periodic table-
Nitrogen is just 'small cash' there)
(again = the nuclear structue!1)
You seem not to realise that the recent work is not connected with
nuclear structure, but with the electronic structure of an atom
but not only nuclear - the atomic as well
the atomic is a direct tangible extention of the nuclear structure.
Balls. As far as the electrons are concerned, the nucleus is a small
ball of charge, mass and a variety of other properties, with
dimensions a few thousand times smaller than the orbitals.
ie the electrons are 'steming' only from specific locations of the
nuc.
Rubbish, whatever "steming" might be
That model will not allow you to calculate the spectral frequencies of
even the simplest of atoms.
Feel free to prove me wrong.
in another place i explained there the tripple bond say of carbon
and that is as well a direct result of nuclear *and atomic *
structure
Not at all. It is a result purely of the electron orbitals. The
nucleus acts simply as the source of a central force.
Carbon and Nitrogen are very close elements with only a slight
diffence
of one nuclear orbilal
the Nitrogen has a deuteron orbital which the Carbon does not have
All deuteron orbitals are identical with hydrogen orbitals, except for
a slightly different reduced mass.
it is diracted n one of the tetraheder structlre of it
Decidedly not. The spectral frequencies of all the major levels of
the nitrogen atom have been calculated, as have the relative line
intensities as a function of temperature. The calculations agree
entirely with the experimentally observed quantities, to the extent
that these results are now in daily use by astronomers who are
investigating stellar structure.
I am sure those folk would appreciate it if you would publish values
for those quantities which are more reliable than the current ones..
Sorry, but the rest was old junk which I have heard befoore from you,
so I took the liberty of snipping it.
[snip]
Franz
.
|
|
|
| User: "Y.Porat" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
25 Dec 2004 12:56:33 AM |
|
|
Hi old demagogue
it seems that you are alost case
as far as new findings are concerned
you are too old to learn something new
you understood nothing of my explanations
may be not all laong your fault
you cant understand it without having my book
antway
you are complelely parroting old stuff and unable to renew anything
moreover
you are disturbing
that is all your 'contribution
2 you didnrt explain the pictures presents newly) by Wormleys thread
just shear hand waving
while i expalined it in detaile
you personally di dt do it you just hand waved that
*others did it *
btw how could others do it while it is a new experimental data
antway
i donrt whant to waste my time and enegy of a dead duck. like you.
i am waiting fo rmore cleaver, and not least more decent people, than
you.
By
Y.Porat
-----------------------------------
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Douglas Eagleson" |
|
| Title: Re: Observing Orbits on Atoms |
22 Dec 2004 09:36:32 PM |
|
|
Sam Wormley wrote:
Molecular orbitals come into view (Dec 15)
http://physicsweb.org/article/news/8/12/9
Scientists have succeeded in imaging a single-electron
wavefunction or
"orbital" in a molecule for the first time. David Villeneuve of
the
National Research Council of Canada (NRC) in Ottawa and
colleagues used
femtosecond lasers to reconstruct the highest occupied molecular
orbital
in nitrogen molecules (J Itatani et al. 2004 Nature 432 867).
These
electrons are responsible for the chemical properties of
molecules.
A state will be observable, my objection was giving a spatial parameter
when none is observable.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
