Science > Physics > Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Jan Panteltje" |
| Date: |
13 Sep 2007 05:14:01 AM |
| Object: |
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/09/12/shrinking.kilogram.ap/index.html
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| User: "Aage Andersen" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 05:43:21 AM |
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"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........ kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 06:02:05 AM |
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On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:21 +0200) it happened "Aage Andersen"
<aaa(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote in
<46e91457$0$86391$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>:
"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........ kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
Well, the problem remains why the different weights (so the original compared
to the copies), start differing.
that would not be the case if it was just g, as g works on all of those.
Maybe oxydation or something?
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| User: "Aage Andersen" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 06:19:41 AM |
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"Jan Panteltje"
"Aage Andersen"
"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........ kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
Well, the problem remains why the different weights (so the original
compared
to the copies), start differing.
that would not be the case if it was just g, as g works on all of those.
Maybe oxydation or something?
The change is 0.05 ppm. I doubt it is possible ascertain this with
certainty.
Aage
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| User: "Timothy Golden BandTechnology.com" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 07:12:06 AM |
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On Sep 13, 7:19 am, "Aage Andersen" <aaa(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote:
"Jan Panteltje"
"Aage Andersen"
"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........ kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
Well, the problem remains why the different weights (so the original
compared
to the copies), start differing.
that would not be the case if it was just g, as g works on all of those.
Maybe oxydation or something?
The change is 0.05 ppm. I doubt it is possible ascertain this with
certainty.
Aage
I wonder if Uncle Al's balls have the same problem?
Perhaps they have already shrivelled down before he completes all of
his experiments on them.
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| User: "George" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 02:48:00 PM |
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"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fcb5bd$bg7$1@news.datemas.de...
On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:21 +0200) it happened "Aage
Andersen"
<aaa(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote in
<46e91457$0$86391$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>:
"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........ kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
Well, the problem remains why the different weights (so the original
compared
to the copies), start differing.
that would not be the case if it was just g, as g works on all of those.
Except that each copy is kept at a different location, and since gravity
slightly varies over the Earth's surface, one would expect these weights
vary slightly at each location. I would think they would account for this
fact in their calculations, though, so that is likely not a factor. Why
the standard changed, though, is a different issue, because technically
speaking, it shouldn't if it is measured at the same location each time. So
if the gravity changed at that location, the question is why. What could
be going on deep within the Earth at that location that would cause the
weight of this standard to change slightly?
George
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 03:59:26 PM |
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On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:48:00 -0400) it happened "George"
<george@yourservice.com> wrote in
<OtgGi.84617$pu2.8633@bignews1.bellsouth.net>:
"Jan Panteltje" <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:fcb5bd$bg7$1@news.datemas.de...
On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:21 +0200) it happened "Aage
Andersen"
<aaa(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote in
<46e91457$0$86391$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk>:
"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........ kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
Well, the problem remains why the different weights (so the original
compared
to the copies), start differing.
that would not be the case if it was just g, as g works on all of those.
Except that each copy is kept at a different location, and since gravity
slightly varies over the Earth's surface, one would expect these weights
vary slightly at each location.
I think I have read once that they bring those other ones to Paris for calibration.
I am pretty sure that is where they are compared.
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| User: "Dac" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 07:11:29 AM |
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On Sep 13, 7:02 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:21 +0200) it happened "Aage Andersen"
<aaa(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote in
<46e91457$0$86391$edfad...@dread11.news.tele.dk>:
"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........ kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
Well, the problem remains why the different weights (so the original compared
to the copies), start differing.
that would not be the case if it was just g, as g works on all of those.
Maybe oxydation or something?
It's possible that objects need to to be moved against its inertial
background field or else higgs coupling would be looser by a very
tiny amount causing the object getting lighter. In such case, Noether
theorem is not followed by the symmetry broken due to stagnant
higgs concentration.
dac
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| User: "Dac" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 07:20:28 AM |
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On Sep 13, 8:11 pm, Dac <dear_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sep 13, 7:02 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:21 +0200) it happened "Aage Andersen"
<aaa(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote in
<46e91457$0$86391$edfad...@dread11.news.tele.dk>:
"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........ kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
Well, the problem remains why the different weights (so the original compared
to the copies), start differing.
that would not be the case if it was just g, as g works on all of those.
Maybe oxydation or something?
It's possible that objects need to to be moved against its inertial
background field or else higgs coupling would be looser by a very
tiny amount causing the object getting lighter. In such case, Noether
theorem is not followed by the symmetry broken due to stagnant
higgs concentration.
dac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If they can shake the object, maybe it would return to its old
weight? If not, maybe there is a higgs inflicted disassociation
causing the original particles like proton or electron to just
evaporate due to higgs deprivation.
dac
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| User: "George" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 02:50:20 PM |
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"Dac" <dear_ack@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1189686028.141417.156700@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 13, 8:11 pm, Dac <dear_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sep 13, 7:02 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:21 +0200) it happened "Aage
Andersen"
<aaa(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote in
<46e91457$0$86391$edfad...@dread11.news.tele.dk>:
"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........
kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which
is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
Well, the problem remains why the different weights (so the original
compared
to the copies), start differing.
that would not be the case if it was just g, as g works on all of
those.
Maybe oxydation or something?
It's possible that objects need to to be moved against its inertial
background field or else higgs coupling would be looser by a very
tiny amount causing the object getting lighter. In such case, Noether
theorem is not followed by the symmetry broken due to stagnant
higgs concentration.
dac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If they can shake the object, maybe it would return to its old
weight? If not, maybe there is a higgs inflicted disassociation
causing the original particles like proton or electron to just
evaporate due to higgs deprivation.
dac
You're throwing out an explanation based on a particle that hasn't been
found yet. Let's stick with what we actually know for the time being,
shall we?
George
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 04:02:10 PM |
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On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:50:20 -0400) it happened "George"
<george@yourservice.com> wrote in
<XvgGi.84620$pu2.8772@bignews1.bellsouth.net>:
"Dac" <dear_ack@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1189686028.141417.156700@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 13, 8:11 pm, Dac <dear_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sep 13, 7:02 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:21 +0200) it happened "Aage
Andersen"
<aaa(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote in
<46e91457$0$86391$edfad...@dread11.news.tele.dk>:
"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........
kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which
is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
Well, the problem remains why the different weights (so the original
compared
to the copies), start differing.
that would not be the case if it was just g, as g works on all of
those.
Maybe oxydation or something?
It's possible that objects need to to be moved against its inertial
background field or else higgs coupling would be looser by a very
tiny amount causing the object getting lighter. In such case, Noether
theorem is not followed by the symmetry broken due to stagnant
higgs concentration.
dac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If they can shake the object, maybe it would return to its old
weight? If not, maybe there is a higgs inflicted disassociation
causing the original particles like proton or electron to just
evaporate due to higgs deprivation.
dac
You're throwing out an explanation based on a particle that hasn't been
found yet. Let's stick with what we actually know for the time being,
shall we?
George
Well it is part of the system, I think it is a cool explanation.
Maybe somebody can mo some calculations with this, to get energy of
the Higgs?
.
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| User: "Dac" |
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| Title: Re: Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight? |
13 Sep 2007 05:29:30 PM |
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On Sep 14, 5:02 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:50:20 -0400) it happened "George"
<geo...@yourservice.com> wrote in
<XvgGi.84620$pu2.8...@bignews1.bellsouth.net>:
"Dac" <dear_...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1189686028.141417.156700@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 13, 8:11 pm, Dac <dear_...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sep 13, 7:02 pm, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:21 +0200) it happened "Aage
Andersen"
<aaa(REMOVE)@email.dk> wrote in
<46e91457$0$86391$edfad...@dread11.news.tele.dk>:
"Jan Panteltje"
Official prototype of kilogram mysteriously losing weight?
Per definition the mass of the prototype kilogram is 1.00000........
kg,
so it can't loose mass :-). Its weight depends on g, so it is g which
is
changing :-) and the whole universe has gained in mass :-).
Aage
Well, the problem remains why the different weights (so the original
compared
to the copies), start differing.
that would not be the case if it was just g, as g works on all of
those.
Maybe oxydation or something?
It's possible that objects need to to be moved against its inertial
background field or else higgs coupling would be looser by a very
tiny amount causing the object getting lighter. In such case, Noether
theorem is not followed by the symmetry broken due to stagnant
higgs concentration.
dac- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If they can shake the object, maybe it would return to its old
weight? If not, maybe there is a higgs inflicted disassociation
causing the original particles like proton or electron to just
evaporate due to higgs deprivation.
dac
You're throwing out an explanation based on a particle that hasn't been
found yet. Let's stick with what we actually know for the time being,
shall we?
George
Well it is part of the system, I think it is a cool explanation.
Maybe somebody can mo some calculations with this, to get energy of
the Higgs?- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Isn't that we can manipulate magnetic field, electric field,
electromagnetic field... why can't we manipulate higgs
field? Maybe because it's a scalar field unlike the above?
But it may be possible to manipulate higgs field by
other method.. this means it *can* be affected by some
processes in nature automatically such as interacting
with some quintennisence or dark energy or even
inflaton or other exotic form of energy.
Or maybe the metal forms a reaction which create
something akin to alpha decay but deflected to the
Lisa Randall extra dimensions or maybe its just oxidation.
Or maybe the weighting device used prior to the 1900
is not accurate. Well. That's it. This is occam's razor.
dac
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