| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"habshi" |
| Date: |
31 May 2007 06:08:03 PM |
| Object: |
Only 11 years of Indium left |
This week's New Scientist shows that we are fast running out
of rare elements and soon the energy needed to extract more will be
too expensive.
Without Indium a lot of things cant be made , copper and other
metals will soon follow . We must impose a two child limit now.
http://www.newscientist.com/contents/issue/2605.html
Earth's natural wealth: an audit
23 May 2007
David Cohen
Magazine issue 2605
"I GET excited every time I see a street cleaner," says Hazel
Prichard. It's what they collect in their sacks that gets her juices
flowing, because the grime and litter they sweep up off the streets is
laced with traces of platinum, one of the world's rarest and most
expensive metals. The catalytic converters that keep exhaust
pollutants from cars, trucks and buses down to an acceptable level all
use platinum, and over the years it is slowly but steadily lost
through these vehicles' exhaust pipes. Prichard, a geologist at the
University of Cardiff in the UK, reckons that tonnes of the stuff is
being sprayed out onto the world's streets and highways every year,
and she is hunting for places where it is concentrated enough to be
worth recovering. One of her prime targets is the waste containers in
road-sweeping machines.
This could prove lucrative, but Prichard is motivated by something far
more significant than the chance of a quick buck. Platinum is a vital
component not only of catalytic converters but also of fuel cells -
and supplies are running out. It has been estimated that if all the
500 million vehicles in use today were re-equipped with fuel cells,
operating losses would mean that all the world's sources of platinum
would be exhausted within 15 years. Unlike with oil or diamonds, there
is no synthetic alternative: platinum is a chemical element, and once
we have used it all there is no way on earth of getting any more. What
price then pollution-free cities?
It's not just the world's platinum that is being used up at an
alarming rate. The same goes for many other rare metals such as
indium, which is being consumed in unprecedented quantities for making
LCDs for flat-screen TVs, and the tantalum needed to make compact
electronic devices like cellphones. How long will global reserves of
uranium last in a new nuclear age? Even reserves of such commonplace
elements as zinc, copper, nickel and the phosphorus used in fertiliser
will run out in the not-too-distant future. So just what proportion of
these materials have ...
The complete article is 1728 words long.
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| User: "habshi" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
02 Jun 2007 03:27:50 AM |
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The fact that commodity prices are at an all time high ,
should tell something to the nutty unlimited growth fanatics.What if
it was true and one after another the rarer elements started running
out?
Could we still make our plasma tvs etc.?
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| User: "Paul F. Dietz" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
03 Jun 2007 08:58:10 AM |
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habshi wrote:
The fact that commodity prices are at an all time high ,
should tell something to the nutty unlimited growth fanatics.
Commodity prices often spike due to supply botlenecks.
This often happens during demand booms, as has been happening
with China and (to some extent) India. It takes time to bring
new production capacity online, particularly new kinds of sources
that are (at least initially) risky investments.
Paul
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| User: "harmony" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
07 Jun 2007 11:41:16 AM |
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"Paul F. Dietz" <dietz@dls.net> wrote in message
news:ZOidnVaDfdNuVf_bnZ2dnUVZ_v6tnZ2d@dls.net...
habshi wrote:
The fact that commodity prices are at an all time high ,
should tell something to the nutty unlimited growth fanatics.
Commodity prices often spike due to supply botlenecks.
This often happens during demand booms, as has been happening
with China and (to some extent) India. It takes time to bring
new production capacity online, particularly new kinds of sources
that are (at least initially) risky investments.
Paul
there are several issiues here
new production = more pollution, more global warming
more people = more production
more plasma tv = more tv channels = bad tv programs
simple solution:
the united nations must declare mohamadism and catholicism (both baby
producing factory religions) are not in the interests of humanity.
all propserity will flow form this. if you must nominate me for a nobel
prize because of this, pls be advised i shall redirect the awrd to those who
renounce the baby producing factory religions.
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| User: "Puppet_Sock" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
01 Jun 2007 12:35:39 PM |
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On May 31, 7:08 pm, (habshi) wrote:
This week's New Scientist shows that we are fast running out
of rare elements and soon the energy needed to extract more will be
too expensive.
[snip]
Have you ever heard of The Club of Rome? Probably not.
They published a little book a few years ago called _The
Limits To Growth_. In this book they made many specific
predictions of such things as rising prices, scarce metals,
scarce food, scarce oil, etc. etc.
They were confident enough of these predictions that one
of their number made a bet on many of them. He paid off
on every single bet.
Every commodity they said would be scarce is now
cheaper, in absolute number of dollars in most cases and
after inflation prices in every case, than they were in
the 1970s when the book was published. Discovery
and extraction of all resources is faster now. We have,
in most cases, more years of reserves for these
items, even though consumption has increased in
a dramatic, even radical amount. And in the cases we
have less reserves it is because use fell, so the price
fell, so people stopped looking for those items.
Maybe, just possibly maybe, after more than three
decades of abject total failure, the "finite world is
about to crush us all" doom sayers should be
examined with a critical eye.
Socks
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| User: "Marcus Aurelius" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
01 Jun 2007 01:20:37 PM |
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On Jun 1, 12:35 pm, Puppet_Sock <puppet_s...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On May 31, 7:08 pm, (habshi) wrote:> This week's New Scientist shows that we are fast running out
of rare elements and soon the energy needed to extract more will be
too expensive.
[snip]
Have you ever heard of The Club of Rome? Probably not.
They published a little book a few years ago called _The
Limits To Growth_. In this book they made many specific
predictions of such things as rising prices, scarce metals,
scarce food, scarce oil, etc. etc.
They were confident enough of these predictions that one
of their number made a bet on many of them. He paid off
on every single bet.
Every commodity they said would be scarce is now
cheaper, in absolute number of dollars in most cases and
after inflation prices in every case, than they were in
the 1970s when the book was published. Discovery
and extraction of all resources is faster now. We have,
in most cases, more years of reserves for these
items, even though consumption has increased in
a dramatic, even radical amount. And in the cases we
have less reserves it is because use fell, so the price
fell, so people stopped looking for those items.
Maybe, just possibly maybe, after more than three
decades of abject total failure, the "finite world is
about to crush us all" doom sayers should be
examined with a critical eye.
Socks
I wonder if any of the asteroids in the asteroid belt have Indium (or
other rare elements). A whole new industry could crop up for "asteroid
mining" that would try to deliberately bring to and crash the useful
sized asteroids into the earth.
Adi Anant
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
01 Jun 2007 06:44:22 PM |
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On Jun 1, 2:20 pm, Marcus Aurelius <aryami...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 1, 12:35 pm, Puppet_Sock <puppet_s...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On May 31, 7:08 pm, (habshi) wrote:> This week's New Scientist shows that we are fast running out
of rare elements and soon the energy needed to extract more will be
too expensive.
[snip]
Have you ever heard of The Club of Rome? Probably not.
They published a little book a few years ago called _The
Limits To Growth_. In this book they made many specific
predictions of such things as rising prices, scarce metals,
scarce food, scarce oil, etc. etc.
They were confident enough of these predictions that one
of their number made a bet on many of them. He paid off
on every single bet.
Every commodity they said would be scarce is now
cheaper, in absolute number of dollars in most cases and
after inflation prices in every case, than they were in
the 1970s when the book was published. Discovery
and extraction of all resources is faster now. We have,
in most cases, more years of reserves for these
items, even though consumption has increased in
a dramatic, even radical amount. And in the cases we
have less reserves it is because use fell, so the price
fell, so people stopped looking for those items.
Maybe, just possibly maybe, after more than three
decades of abject total failure, the "finite world is
about to crush us all" doom sayers should be
examined with a critical eye.
Socks
I wonder if any of the asteroids in the asteroid belt have Indium (or
other rare elements). A whole new industry could crop up for "asteroid
mining" that would try to deliberately bring to and crash the useful
sized asteroids into the earth.
Adi Anant
I heareby nominate your backyard as the impact area.
(Provided it's on a different continent from me).
Can you spell mass extinction?????
MadDog
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| User: "Puppet_Sock" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
01 Jun 2007 02:33:20 PM |
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On Jun 1, 2:20 pm, Marcus Aurelius <aryami...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
I wonder if any of the asteroids in the asteroid belt have Indium (or
other rare elements). A whole new industry could crop up for "asteroid
mining" that would try to deliberately bring to and crash the useful
sized asteroids into the earth.
There probably are plenty of various metals in asteroids.
But we are no where near needing them as yet. There are
still plenty of metals available much easier right here on
the planet. Much less risk getting them back as well.
Tossing asteroids around is not something we want to
try in any big way near the Earth. At least until we've had
lots of practice at it at very large distances from the Earth.
Say past the orbit of Mars for starters.
Eventually we will get around to it. But we will likely be using
much more energy per person by then. This is likely to be
some centuries away, rather than just a decade or two.
And when we do, there's a much handier and more predictable
location to get metals. The planet Mercury is roughly double
the metalic content that the Earth has.
Socks
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| User: "Alex Terrell" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
02 Jun 2007 03:48:29 AM |
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On 1 Jun, 20:33, Puppet_Sock <puppet_s...@hotmail.com> wrote:
On Jun 1, 2:20 pm, Marcus Aurelius <aryami...@hotmail.com> wrote:
[snip]
I wonder if any of the asteroids in the asteroid belt have Indium (or
other rare elements). A whole new industry could crop up for "asteroid
mining" that would try to deliberately bring to and crash the useful
sized asteroids into the earth.
There probably are plenty of various metals in asteroids.
It's likely that's where most of our platinum group metals came from
in the first place.
But we are no where near needing them as yet. There are
still plenty of metals available much easier right here on
the planet. Much less risk getting them back as well.
Tossing asteroids around is not something we want to
try in any big way near the Earth. At least until we've had
lots of practice at it at very large distances from the Earth.
Say past the orbit of Mars for starters.
You wouldn't toss asteroids. You'd nudge them. It would be pretty
difficult to hit the the Earth. Besides, you'd be playing with small
packages that wouldn't pose a big threat.
Perhaps easier to reach would be asteroid impacts on the moon.
Eventually we will get around to it. But we will likely be using
much more energy per person by then. This is likely to be
some centuries away, rather than just a decade or two.
It should certainly pay back this Century.
And when we do, there's a much handier and more predictable
location to get metals. The planet Mercury is roughly double
the metalic content that the Earth has.
Mercury is not at all handy. Its near the bottom of a very, very deep
hole.
And almost any object in space is utterly predictable.
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| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
01 Jun 2007 02:30:57 PM |
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Puppet_Sock wrote:
On May 31, 7:08 pm, (habshi) wrote:
This week's New Scientist shows that we are fast running out
of rare elements and soon the energy needed to extract more will be
too expensive.
[snip]
Have you ever heard of The Club of Rome?
There is a lot of folklore about that book.
http://greatchange.org/ov-simmons,club_of_rome_revisted.pdf
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
31 May 2007 07:02:18 PM |
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habshit aka "habshi" <habshi@anony.com> is a little green idiot now
since he wrote in message news:465f53c4.2173828@news.clara.net...
about the kikish green *****, David Cohen, who whined in
http://www.newscientist.com/contents/issue/2605.html, that
Indium, copper platinum, zinc, copper, nickel and phosphorus
will run out in the not-too-distant future.
We must impose a two child limit now.
The complete article is 1728 words long
[hanson]
Green shits (class 1 enviros) and green turds (class 2 enviros)
have agitated and scared folks for the last 50 years to become
little green idiots (class 3 enviros). Many otherwise normal
people have fallen victim to this garagtantuan con:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/70ed6372eccc32ba
wherin it says:
** Environmentalism is for $$$$$$$, the environment is the come-on **
** Environmentalism "makes the Rich richer and the Poor poorer!" **
***The GREEN BIBLE & its enviro Theology ***** in this link says that:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/70ed6372eccc32ba
= "It doesn't matter what is true ... it only matters what people
= believe is true. -- Paul Watson, Sea Shepard/ex-Greenpeace, &...
= "A lot of environmental [sci/soc/pol] messages are simply not
= accurate. We use hype." -- Jerry Franklin, Ecologist, UoW, and...
= "If you don't know an answer, a fact, a statistic, then .... make it
= up on the spot ... for the mass-media today ... the truth is irrelevant."
= -- Paul Watson in Earthforce: An Earth Warrior's Guide to Strategy.
= "We make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little
= mention of any doubts we may have [about] being honest."
= -- Stephen Schneider (Stanford prof. who first sought fame as
= a global cooler, but has now hit the big time as a global warmer)
= "It is appropriate to have an over-representation of factual presen-
= tations" -- Al Gore, Chairman, Gen. Investment Management Bank.
-------- The 40 year old scheme of the Green Scam ----------
Modern, attributal definitions of enviro classifications:
========= enviro Class (1) --- the Green *****(s):
....are the ones who advocate, promote, support, legalize,
institute and extort the permit charges, the user fees, the
enviro surtaxes and the CO2/Carbon tax, all reflected in
HIGHER PRICES of goods and services!, ...and being
responsible for much of the OUT-SOURCING!
========= enviro Class (2) -- the Green turd(s):
.... are the ones who are recipients and beneficiaries from
the lootings of (1), directly or indirectly.
========= enviro Class (3) -- the Little green idiot(s):
... are the unpaid, well-meaning ones, in "environmental
groups" who think they do something for the "environment",
when in fact they are only the enablers and facilitators for
(2) who are harvesting the green $$$ that (1) has extorted.
A lot of class 1 & 2 enviros are calling themselves no
longer "environmentalists" but *"conservationists"* now,.
such as foundations, corporats, lawyers, celebs & RICH fat
cats who are conserving those lands for future generations:
Their OWN descendants only, of course, while all the little
green idiots do the hard and dirty work for them & pay!
Make no mistake, Greenism crosses all political party lines.
Some of the biggest class 2 enviros are from the far Right
---------- Views after 40 years of green criminality --------
=1= In June 05 USDA/FDA aired/published that they will
no longer endorse green products that are labeled "organic"!
=2= The FBI and Homeland Security/DHS has declared
enviros to be the number one terrorist threat to the nation.
=3= Myriads of good, rational & HARD WORKING folks had
enough from environmentalism and began to raise their voices
as did E. Gisin in news:d8j4df01n0o@enews1.newsguy.com...
wherein it sounds like this: "Fucking greens should be shot...."
....and as an encore do never forget that
= Pure politics is driving dozens of public health issues, notably
= global warming, green *****, tobacco & meds now. Great lies
= in service for/of a "noble cause" do trump now truth & fact.
=
= Enviros use the same great lies of yore. Only the color changed.
= (A) Environmentalism is Communism in Green...
= (B) Environmentalism is Nazism in Green...
= (C) Environmentalism makes the Poor poorer and the Rich richer.
Environmentalism is nothing but green pornography,
pimped by green orgs like NRDC, Sierra club, Green *****, etc.,
whored and hookered by green bureaucrats from EPA down,
johned, pole- and lapdanced by the hordes of little green idiots
and paid for by extorting the money from hardworking taxpayers.
Environmentalism is a malignant, parasitic socio-pathology,
promulgated by opportunistic ex-communists and misogynic,
unemployable perverts, who have succeeded in generating
enviro taxes, permit fees and user surcharges, from which these
useless, enviro-pushers and eco-fanatics draw their welfare
checks and demand grants to generate more enviro *****.
ahahahaha... BTW, do copy and use these above clarifications
often and profusely. There is no permit charge or user fee
associated with it. and nobody will accuse you of plagiarism.
It's a free public service announcement... Use it. Have fun!
ahahahaha... ahahahanson
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| User: "Bill Penrose" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
31 May 2007 08:37:42 PM |
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On May 31, 5:02 pm, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote:
Environmentalism is a malignant, parasitic socio-pathology,
promulgated by opportunistic ex-communists and misogynic,
unemployable perverts,
But be honest, do you like them or not? Don't hide your feelings.
Dangerous Bill
(who promises to buy a much bigger car next time, and keep the A/C
turned down so low that frost will form on the walls)
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
31 May 2007 09:47:47 PM |
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ahahaha... AHAHAHA..."Bill Penrose" <penrose@iit.edu> wrote in
news:1180661862.814916.57150@z28g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
On May 31, 5:02 pm, "hanson" <han...@quick.net> wrote in: ---
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.energy/msg/cf2f3012fc27c93a
Environmentalism is a malignant, parasitic socio-pathology,
promulgated by opportunistic ex-communists and misogynic,
unemployable perverts,
[Bill]
But be honest, do you like them or not? Don't hide your feelings.
-- Dangerous Bill
(who promises to buy a much bigger car next time, and keep the
A/C turned down so low that frost will form on the walls)
[hanson]
Well, I don't like to be socially maladroit and openly repeat what
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.energy/msg/cf2f3012fc27c93a
says with Eric G in his news:d8j4df01n0o@enews1.newsguy.com...i
wherein he insists that: == "Fucking greens should be shot...." ==
And to make you happy too , Bill, I promise that every time
come to the US from now on (about every 6-8 weeks) I will
instruct the board of directors of the transportation division
to buy 18 wheelers now instead of the Hummer fleet. Also,
I will do even better than you with your A/C. -- I will leave the
car windows open to cool the freeways with my A/C and
the same will be done also in all my office buildings: A/C
full blast, windows all the way open to cool the city and hence
counteract that darn Anthropic Global Warming... ahaha..
... ahahaha... ahaha... Thanks for the laughs, Bill
ahaha... ahahanson
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| User: "Erdemal" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
01 Jun 2007 04:26:26 AM |
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hanson wrote:
habshit aka "habshi" <habshi@anony.com> is a little green idiot now
since he wrote in message news:465f53c4.2173828@news.clara.net...
about the kikish green *****, David Cohen, who whined in
http://www.newscientist.com/contents/issue/2605.html, that
Indium, copper platinum, zinc, copper, nickel and phosphorus
will run out in the not-too-distant future.
We must impose a two child limit now.
The complete article is 1728 words long
[hanson]
Green shits (class 1 enviros) and green turds (class 2 enviros)
have agitated and scared folks for the last 50 years to become
little green idiots (class 3 enviros). Many otherwise normal
people have fallen victim to this garagtantuan con:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/70ed6372eccc32ba
wherin it says:
Are you sure that "habshi" is not making noise to ?? boost
these commodities prices or ?? to discourage hope for PV
where indium is required (for ?CIGS) ... Maybe he's not an
environmentalist at all. In the past a principle was
"Split to rule!", for a while another one was added:
"Disgust to submit!".
Erdy
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| User: "Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" |
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| Title: Re: Only 11 years of Indium left |
03 Jun 2007 05:56:25 PM |
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Erdemal wrote:
hanson wrote:
habshit aka "habshi" <habshi@anony.com> is a little green idiot now
since he wrote in message news:465f53c4.2173828@news.clara.net...
about the kikish green *****, David Cohen, who whined in
http://www.newscientist.com/contents/issue/2605.html, that
Indium, copper platinum, zinc, copper, nickel and phosphorus
will run out in the not-too-distant future.
We must impose a two child limit now.
The complete article is 1728 words long
[hanson]
Green shits (class 1 enviros) and green turds (class 2 enviros)
have agitated and scared folks for the last 50 years to become
little green idiots (class 3 enviros). Many otherwise normal
people have fallen victim to this garagtantuan con:
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.environment/msg/70ed6372eccc32ba
wherin it says:
Are you sure that "habshi" is not making noise to ?? boost
these commodities prices or ?? to discourage hope for PV
where indium is required (for ?CIGS) ... Maybe he's not an
environmentalist at all. In the past a principle was
"Split to rule!", for a while another one was added:
"Disgust to submit!".
Erdy
We are not running out of anything.
All we are doing, at worst, is making the extraction of any given
element more energy intensive. Anyone worried we are running out of
silicon or aluminium?
--
Dirk
http://www.onetribe.me.uk - The UK's only occult talk show
Presented by Dirk Bruere and Marc Power
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