| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"doog" |
| Date: |
10 Feb 2005 10:59:56 PM |
| Object: |
peak oil revisited |
http://www.the7thfire.com/peak_oil/peak_oil_is_a_scam_to_promote_world_depopulation.htm
Clearly, peak oil/mass death is a byproduct of monied madness. Peak oil
claims are designed to justify mass death in order to ensure the health
of monied madness.
===
Money is a new and terrible form of slavery, and like the old form of
personal slavery it demoralizes both slave and slave-owner, only much
more, for it frees the slave and the slave owner from personal, human
relations with one another. — Nikoli Tolstoy, What Must We Do?, 1886
===
Pelatiah Webster says of this paper and the continental currency: "We
have suffered more from this cause than from any other cause or
calamity. It has killed more men, pervaded and corrupted the choicest
interests of our country and done more injustice than even the arms and
artifices of our enemies." — John Knox, United States Notes, "Paper
Money A Cause of the Revolution," 1899
===
The love of money is the mother-city of all evils. — Diogenes, Apothegm,
c.350 BC
===
Revolted by the unscrupulous pursuit of wealth that marked the age, and
shocked by the splendor and luxury of some clergymen, Saint Francis of
Assisi, denounced money itself as a devil and a curse and bade his
followers despise it as dung. — Will Durant, The Age of Faith, 1950
===
"So I say to you, use your worldly wealth to win friends for yourselves,
so that when money is a thing of the past you may be received into an
eternal home. . . "No servant can be the slave of two masters; for
either he will hate the first and love the second, or he will be devoted
to the first and think nothing of the second. You cannot serve God and
Money." The Pharisees, who loved money heard all this and scoffed at
him. — Jesus (Luke 16, NEV)
===
Let there be a small country with few people,
Who, even having much machinery, don't use it.
Who take death seriously and don't wander far away.
Even though they have boats and carriages, they never ride in them.
Having armor and weapons, they never go to war.
Let them return to measurement by tying knots in rope. [Let them not
need Money. — Raquel]
Sweeten their food, give them nice clothes, a peaceful abode and a
relaxed life.
Even though the next country can be seen and its dogs and chickens can
be heard,
The people will grow old and die without visiting each others land.
—Tao Te Ching (#80), Translated by Charles Muller
===
Money is the sinews of war.
— Tacitus, Cicero, Plato, Massinger, James Payn, Libanius, James VI of
Scotland, Arthur Murphy, Plutarch, John Lyly, George Peele, George
Farquhar, Carlyle, Thomas Fuller, John Fletcher, Rabelias, Arthur Hull,
O. Henry, Michael Scott, etc., etc.
===
In Utopia all greed for money was entirely removed with the use of
money. What a mass of troubles was then cut away! What a crop of crimes
was then pulled up by the roots! Who does not know that fraud, theft,
rapine, quarrels, disorders, brawls, seditions, murders, treasons,
poisonings, which are avenged rather than restrained by daily
executions, die out with the destruction of money? Who does not know
that fear, anxiety, worries, toils, and sleepless nights will also
perish at the same time as money? What is more, poverty, which alone
money seemed to make poor, forthwith would itself dwindle and disappear
if money were entirely done away with everywhere. — Saint Thomas More,
Utopia, 1516
===
Why not simply call for an end to monied madness and learn to share for
the good of all our relations? How? Talk about ways to end monied
madness in order to live free from monied madness.
http://www.usuryfree.net
http://www.reformation.org/moneychangers.html
http://www.abolishmoney.com
All in-common goods/services free for the good of all.
Barter all un-common goods/services.
Hope this helps
Pass it on
.
|
|
| User: "Immortalist" |
|
| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
11 Feb 2005 11:48:21 AM |
|
|
"doog" <doog@toz.it.na> wrote in message news:420C3BCC.4040701@toz.it.na...
http://www.the7thfire.com/peak_oil/peak_oil_is_a_scam_to_promote_world_depopulation.htm
Money is a new and terrible form of slavery, and like the old form of
personal slavery it demoralizes both slave and slave-owner, only much
more, for it frees the slave and the slave owner from personal, human
relations with one another. — Nikoli Tolstoy, What Must We Do?, 1886
===
Economic freedom (capitalism, property rights), intellectual freedom
(science and technology) and self-interest makes societies prosperous.
Strong, utopian government leads to unemployment, poverty, emigration and
famine. This has been repeatedly demonstrated in practice in countries all
over the world. Yet ignorant thinkers continue to resist these ideas even
today.
http://humphrys.humanists.net/capitalism.html
Want and greed are why humanity today is freer, healthier and more
comfortable than it's ever been. Nearly every significant innovation,
invention or improvement that man has so far come up with resulted from the
innovator, the inventor or the improver's desire to better his own
condition, or, put differently, to get more stuff. It is 'greed' and the
want of stuff that drives us to work longer hours, to build better
mousetraps, and to take the kinds of risks that shake up the marketplace,
and move the whole system forward.
http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3436
What is capitalism good at? Well, let's just take accepted wisdom as our
guide on this question: If we take as our example the economic system of the
US, which is what we might call Extreme Capitalism, we can certainly say
that capitalism excels in producing things. I don't think there can be much
question about that. These things are all over the place. My goodness, what
a huge amount of stuff. And the packaging the stuff comes in, good gravy,
what a lot of paper and cardboard and glass and cellophane, it's all over
the place. And the advertisements for all the stuff, well, it's just all
over the place. Probably 90 percent of our information resources are devoted
to educating people about all the stuff available for purchase under extreme
capitalism.
So capitalism is good at producing stuff.
Another piece of accepted wisdom about what capitalism is good at says this:
capitalism spurs invention, technology, achievement in general. Now we all
know what losers the Russians were in this regard under Soviet Communism.
They had this guy, Doctor Lysenko, who set them back a good half-century.
But that was more a factor of their lack of democracy than of their lack of
capitalism, I think. I mean, after they got rid of Lysenko, they put a man
in space before we did. So capitalism didn't get us into space before them,
and what spurred us to beat them to the moon wasn't capitalism, but a kind
of national one-upmanship. I mean, the space program was state-funded – kind
of like under communism.
http://www.mejeffdorchen.oblivio.com/moments/moment_capitalismgood.html
....the profit motive that drives a free market creates incentives to use
resources as efficiently as possible. After going through the trouble and
expense of obtaining virgin resources, firms have an incentive to pass any
unused portion through the economy instead of dumping it in the back yard.
At the same time, the right of individuals "down stream" to seek damages for
excessive negative environmental impacts has always provided incentives to
moderate pollution.
Of course, one never hears this argument from the activists who will be
boarding the plane to Johannesburg this weekend. That's because it stirs up
an idea that makes environmentalists distinctly uncomfortable -- that the
rational interests of business really aren't that far apart from the
interests of society at large.
http://www.aworldconnected.org/article.php/234.html
Despite wide disagreements over the precise definition of capitalism, and
arguments over which economies are capitalist and to what degree, a set of
broad characteristics are generally agreed on by both advocates and critics
of capitalism. These are a private sector, property rights, economic growth,
economic mobility, unequal distribution of wealth, competition, evolving
entrepreneurial networks and social arrangements, and the existence of free
markets like the labor market.
(Advantages of Capitalism)
Collection of wealth in relatively few hands serves a function that in the
end benefits all.
Capitalist economies concentrate wealth in the hands of those that are the
most productive in terms of providing goods and services that society
values.
The prospect of becoming wealthier than others serves as an incentive to
produce.
A significant cause of poverty is the lack of capitalism.
Capitalism hasn't been properly implemented yet.
Wealth distribution concentrated in the hands of the minority of individuals
is the natural outcome of capitalism since being more productive than others
is a matter of being willing to exert oneself and most people are naturally
content to "just get by" with minimal effort.
Financial markets and banks where most wealth is stored act as a means of
redistribution of wealth (see banking and stock market). Some say that this
causes the simple dollar amounts assigned to a persons "net worth" to be
completely misleading and inflated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Several years ago, a Black economist named Thomas Sowell conducted a study
on why Africans and American Indians fell behind Europe and Asia. What he
found is that for 10,000 years, farming was the primary means of supporting
oneself. Europe and Asia go East-West, while Africa and the Americas go
North-South. Climate remains the same as you go east-west, but changes as
you go north-south. As such, any farming-related invention in Spain could be
used in France, Germany, Poland, Russia, etc. as long as you stay on the
same latitude. Thus, Europeans and Asians could exchange farming
innovations, while Africans and Indians could not because farming changes as
you go north or south.
Looking at history, we find that for a long time, empires appeared only in
the “center of the world” – the Middle East and east Mediterranean, which is
at the crossroads of Europe, Africa and Asia.
Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Greece, Rome, Persia and the Ottoman Empire are all
from that region. Meanwhile, several major religions came out of Israel.
Why? Because the people of that region were able to absorb the knowledge
from almost the whole Eastern Hemisphere, while others were more isolated.
As water travel improved enough to allowed ships to travel around the world,
countries with access to oceans began to dominate – Spain, France, England,
Portugal and even the tiny Holland. These countries were then replaced by
the United States, a country with a constant flow of immigrants from all
over the world.
It is true that not every country located in key location is going to be a
mega-power, since there can only be very few super-powers. But history shows
that the only countries that succeeded are the countries located in places
that allowed them to borrow knowledge.
Take a look at Germany. It is located in the middle of Europe, allowing it
to borrow knowledge from West, East, South and North Europe. Yet, it does
not have easy access to non-European countries. Thus, it has always been a
successful country, but never emerged as a super-power for a significant
time (a few years in the 1940’s is not a long time).
In the view of anti-globalists, each country should isolate itself and find
an “indigenous” solution. To suggest that any knowledge can be gained from
the evil Western morons is racist.
I disagree. All the people of the world can contribute and those who keep
themselves isolated from others will be left behind. Some of the isolated
Pacific islands did not even know how to make fire when they were invaded
just a few centuries ago. That is the by-product of isolation.
I also disagree that there is a finite amount of wealth in the world and if
one country succeeds, another must fail. There is no manna from God that
needs to be divided. Natural resources are treated by people who don’t
understand economics as the source of wealth. Yet, no respectable economist
would make such a ridiculous statement. Modern economies become rich because
they invest, develop and improve products and services. Only tiny nations
with vast amounts of natural resources, such as Kuwait, can rely on God’s
gifts.
Since embracing world trade and moving away from Communist policies in favor
of what is increasingly a free-market, China has become a major producer of
world goods. We do not suffer because Chinese are doing better today than 25
years ago. We benefit from it because we can buy goods that are cheaper or
better or just more desirable. Likewise if Africa, North Korea and all the
other countries embrace proper economic policies, including free-trade and
globalization, we will again benefit from the products of their brains and
labor.
Development is truly a win-win preposition. The people who invent, develop
or improve goods can make a profit, while all others can now benefit from
better or cheaper goods. And it also frees up companies and people currently
producing undesirable goods to produce other products. Thus, not only will
the West not suffer if the Third World develops its economy, it will
actually benefit greatly. The theory that there is a conspiracy by the West
to keep the Third World down is preposterous for the simple reason that the
West would benefit from development of Third World countries, much the same
way it benefited from economic progress in China and India, as well as
Japan, South Korea, Spain and Greece in past decades.
When the United States signed a free-trade agreement (NAFTA) with Mexico, it
was claimed by anti-globalists that (1) Americans will be starving on the
streets of New York and Los Angeles because all jobs will be stolen by
Mexicans; and simultaneously that (2) Americans will get rich robbing
Mexicans.
Yet, by any objective measure, Free Trade, in general, and NAFTA, in
particular, has been a spectacular success. Not only did trade with Mexico
triple in 10 years, but unemployment also went down to historical lows at
3.9% The manufacturing output of the United States increased by 41% in the
10 years following NAFTA, compared to 34% in the 10 years preceding it.
[Daniel T. Griswold, 2004. After 10 Years, NAFTA Continues to Pay Dividends.
[Online. Cited May 8, 2004] Cato Institute. Available from the World Wide
Web: (http://www.cato.org/dailys/01-08-04.html)] Moreover, the Economist
(United Kingdom) reported that despite the outcry about outsourcing of
American jobs, "at the national level, more jobs are outsourced to America
than the other way around. American workers, in other words, are net
beneficiaries of outsourcing (it goes without saying that consumers always
were). And in the cross-border trade of white-collar services, a chief
concern, America's surplus with the rest of the world is not shrinking; it
is growing." [Economist, April 7, 2004. When Good News Spells Trouble.
[Online. Cited May 14, 2004] Available on the World Wide Web at:
(http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2572245)]
Additionally, many jobs are created in the United States as a result of
outsourcing. For example, cheaper goods are sold in higher volume, which
means more jobs for salespeople, advertisers, store managers, drivers and
transporters of the goods, store janitors, and all the other people
associated with shopping or that surround shopping centers (e.g., a
restaurant in a mall that benefits from an increasing number of visitors to
stores).
As the longest economic boom in American history came to an end due to (1)
economic cycles; (2) bursting of the hi-tech bubble; (3) September 11; and
(4) Corporate scandals, some have begun to blame free trade agreements. Yet,
compare this recession to others. Unemployment never rose above 5.6% and the
recession was one of the quickest in history.
Mexico similarly benefited from the tens of thousands of jobs created there.
Mexicans who work for American companies were not the only ones who enjoy
the by-products of NAFTA. More jobs means higher demand for workers, while
the supply of workers remains the same. As employers, of any nationality,
are faced with fewer and fewer job applicants, they are forced to raise
salaries to attract workers. It also forces employers to provide better
benefits, and generally to refrain from behavior that may drive their
employees to competitors. Thus, foreign investment benefits everyone and not
just those working for foreign companies.
Compare NAFTA to the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930, raising tariffs on
more than 200 products, causing not only the American economy, but economies
world-wide to spin into a Depression. As a result of tariffs, cheaper or
better foreign goods could not make their way into the United States, while
American goods could not be traded overseas without a severe competitive
disadvantage. Already, farmers could not participate in the prosperity of
the Roaring-1920’s because of the Fordney-McCumber Tariff of 1922, causing
tremendous hardship for rural communities while everyone else was
prospering. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act caused the same economic devastation
in the urban and suburban areas as the Fordney-McCumber Act caused among
farmers. In the wool industry alone, the 1930 Act caused 60,000 people to
lose jobs after the tariffs on wool rags was increased by 140%. [Lawrence
Reed, 1998. Great Myths of the Great Depression. [Online. Cited May 10,
2004] Mackinac Center for Public Policy. Available from World Wide Web:
(http://www.mackinac.org/archives/1998/sp1998-01.pdf)] Politicians thought
that they could force Americans to buy U.S.-made goods, thus solving the
problem of increasing unemployment. However, international trade is a
two-way street and, naturally, foreign countries raised their tariffs as
well. Additionally, foreign companies operating in the United States were
often forced to close doors, resulting in job losses in industries from
sales to advertising.
Within months after the enactment of the 1930 Tariffs, unemployment
skyrocketed from around 6% (roughly where it was before the Stock Market
Crash of 1929) to almost 15%. [Richard K. Vedder & Lowell E. Gallaway, Out
of Work, Unemployment and Government in Twentieth-Century America. New York
University Press, 1993, 1997, p. 78.]
Without the previously established foreign traders, many goods could no
longer be sold. While facilities, man-power and even reserves were meant for
pre-tariff days, there was no market for the goods produced. Thus, prices
plummeted. The price of a bushel of wheat went down 70%. Overall, consumer
prices dropped 25%. [Ibid.]
The above has proven true all over the world. Countries that rejected
globalization and the free-market have suffered.
Additionally, it must be said that the point of working is not merely to
work. If that were true, then why not make the whole population to just dig
useless holes and then fill them up? The point of working is to produce
goods and services that others want. If Mexicans or Chinese can create
products that are better or cheaper or just more desirable than those made
by American companies, then American businesses should either improve or do
something else that consumers actually want. To force consumers to purchase
goods they don’t want makes the world economy worse. By letting each company
or country to produce the best goods – “best” as judged by what consumers
choose to spend money on – we make the world economy better for the simple
reason that everyone is producing better goods, thus the overall world
product becomes better.
Globalization alone is not enough. Countries must also create
business-friendly environments. When countries impose huge tax rates upon
business and investors, they simply chase them away – and get no tax revenue
at all. Is it any wonder that Cameroon (60% income tax), Ethiopia (89%) and
Zimbabwe (45% plus another 30% surcharge on top of that) are poor?!
[http://www.wanniski.com/showarticle.asp?articleid=3011]
When huge taxes are imposed, it causes (1) corruption by people trying to
avoid being robbed by the government; (2) withdrawal of investment.
Withdrawn investment means development of oppressive monopolies (since there
is often not enough after-tax income to be divided among multiple
companies), high prices (to allow companies to pay taxes and still get a
return on their investment) and low salaries (again to pay taxes and also
because companies don’t have to compete for workers in a high-tax
environment that causes monopolies to emerge).
The movement against free trade is nothing more than xenophobia and racism.
The anti-globalist left hates Westerners. The anti-globalist right hates
Third World people. Both are trying to isolate themselves from the world
through high tariffs and high taxes. Neither the anti-globalist left nor the
anti-globalist right is democratic, preferring that power-hungry,
often-corrupt politicians decide for the people, rather than to allow the
people themselves to decide what they want to buy, who they want to work for
and where they want to invest.
http://globalpolitician.com/articles.asp?ID=324
.
|
|
|
| User: "doog" |
|
| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
13 Feb 2005 02:14:55 AM |
|
|
Immortalist's defense of capitalists[lovers of money] greed[love of
money] as a model/engine for economic growth at the expense of others is
both ludicrous, inhumane, and insane. Not suprising since immortalist is
most likely a bio-machine defending ITs programmed life by running ITs
programmed program of educated-idiocy IT has been taught to
believe/protect/defend/serve.
With that...
Capitalism has created every war, created every disease, has created
every societal ill known to mankind...all for profit at the expense of
others. War, disease, crime are not good things. Capitalism has a
history of creating bad things in order to cash in on the bad things
captialism creates for profit...
Capitalism is ALL about devolutionary/suicidal greed. Clearly, greed, is
both a deadly societal and personal sin. Greedy capitalists are designed
to feed from the trough of cash fed to them by those that program them
with/to what enslaves them, through the creation of money.
Money, is but figment of imagination, utilized as a tool/weapon by
lovers of money against the rest of the world.
The love of money is the mother-city of all evils. — Diogenes, Apothegm,
c.350 BC.
Cicero said that "whoever gives his labor for money sells himself and
puts himself in the rank of slaves."
Capitalism represents monied evil. Capitalism IS monied evil. Capitalism
is guilty of profound crimes against humanity AND of being a suicidal
growth tool/model/weapon/engine/cult of the monied economic system
called global capitalism referred to by bio-borg[think amway]lovers of
money loving monied evil for profit.
Capitalism is a parasite. A sickness. A disease. A condition. A
nightmare. Capitalists are children. Devolved, for profit at their
expense. Capitalists are fools...
Any defense of capitalism must either acknowledge these assertions
and/or repent, demit, learn to share for the good of all our relations.
Greed is not a good thing.
Immortalist wrote:
"doog" <doog@toz.it.na> wrote in message news:420C3BCC.4040701@toz.it.na...
http://www.the7thfire.com/peak_oil/peak_oil_is_a_scam_to_promote_world_depopulation.htm
Money is a new and terrible form of slavery, and like the old form of
personal slavery it demoralizes both slave and slave-owner, only much
more, for it frees the slave and the slave owner from personal, human
relations with one another. — Nikoli Tolstoy, What Must We Do?, 1886
===
Economic freedom (capitalism, property rights), intellectual freedom
(science and technology) and self-interest makes societies prosperous.
Strong, utopian government leads to unemployment, poverty, emigration
and famine. This has been repeatedly demonstrated in practice in
countries all over the world. Yet ignorant thinkers continue to resist
these ideas even today.
http://humphrys.humanists.net/capitalism.html
Want and greed are why humanity today is freer, healthier and more
comfortable than it's ever been. Nearly every significant innovation,
invention or improvement that man has so far come up with resulted from
the innovator, the inventor or the improver's desire to better his own
condition, or, put differently, to get more stuff. It is 'greed' and the
want of stuff that drives us to work longer hours, to build better
mousetraps, and to take the kinds of risks that shake up the
marketplace, and move the whole system forward.
http://capmag.com/article.asp?ID=3436
What is capitalism good at? Well, let's just take accepted wisdom as our
guide on this question: If we take as our example the economic system of
the US, which is what we might call Extreme Capitalism, we can certainly
say that capitalism excels in producing things. I don't think there can
be much question about that. These things are all over the place. My
goodness, what a huge amount of stuff. And the packaging the stuff comes
in, good gravy, what a lot of paper and cardboard and glass and
cellophane, it's all over the place. And the advertisements for all the
stuff, well, it's just all over the place. Probably 90 percent of our
information resources are devoted to educating people about all the
stuff available for purchase under extreme capitalism.
So capitalism is good at producing stuff.
Another piece of accepted wisdom about what capitalism is good at says
this: capitalism spurs invention, technology, achievement in general.
Now we all know what losers the Russians were in this regard under
Soviet Communism. They had this guy, Doctor Lysenko, who set them back a
good half-century. But that was more a factor of their lack of democracy
than of their lack of capitalism, I think. I mean, after they got rid of
Lysenko, they put a man in space before we did. So capitalism didn't get
us into space before them, and what spurred us to beat them to the moon
wasn't capitalism, but a kind of national one-upmanship. I mean, the
space program was state-funded – kind of like under communism.
http://www.mejeffdorchen.oblivio.com/moments/moment_capitalismgood.html
...the profit motive that drives a free market creates incentives to use
resources as efficiently as possible. After going through the trouble
and expense of obtaining virgin resources, firms have an incentive to
pass any unused portion through the economy instead of dumping it in the
back yard. At the same time, the right of individuals "down stream" to
seek damages for excessive negative environmental impacts has always
provided incentives to moderate pollution.
Of course, one never hears this argument from the activists who will be
boarding the plane to Johannesburg this weekend. That's because it stirs
up an idea that makes environmentalists distinctly uncomfortable -- that
the rational interests of business really aren't that far apart from the
interests of society at large.
http://www.aworldconnected.org/article.php/234.html
Despite wide disagreements over the precise definition of capitalism,
and arguments over which economies are capitalist and to what degree, a
set of broad characteristics are generally agreed on by both advocates
and critics of capitalism. These are a private sector, property rights,
economic growth, economic mobility, unequal distribution of wealth,
competition, evolving entrepreneurial networks and social arrangements,
and the existence of free markets like the labor market.
(Advantages of Capitalism)
Collection of wealth in relatively few hands serves a function that in
the end benefits all.
Capitalist economies concentrate wealth in the hands of those that are
the most productive in terms of providing goods and services that
society values.
The prospect of becoming wealthier than others serves as an incentive to
produce.
A significant cause of poverty is the lack of capitalism.
Capitalism hasn't been properly implemented yet.
Wealth distribution concentrated in the hands of the minority of
individuals is the natural outcome of capitalism since being more
productive than others is a matter of being willing to exert oneself and
most people are naturally content to "just get by" with minimal effort.
Financial markets and banks where most wealth is stored act as a means
of redistribution of wealth (see banking and stock market). Some say
that this causes the simple dollar amounts assigned to a persons "net
worth" to be completely misleading and inflated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
Several years ago, a Black economist named Thomas Sowell conducted a
study on why Africans and American Indians fell behind Europe and Asia.
What he found is that for 10,000 years, farming was the primary means of
supporting oneself. Europe and Asia go East-West, while Africa and the
Americas go North-South. Climate remains the same as you go east-west,
but changes as you go north-south. As such, any farming-related
invention in Spain could be used in France, Germany, Poland, Russia,
etc. as long as you stay on the same latitude. Thus, Europeans and
Asians could exchange farming innovations, while Africans and Indians
could not because farming changes as you go north or south.
Looking at history, we find that for a long time, empires appeared only
in the “center of the world” – the Middle East and east Mediterranean,
which is at the crossroads of Europe, Africa and Asia.
Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Greece, Rome, Persia and the Ottoman Empire are
all from that region. Meanwhile, several major religions came out of
Israel. Why? Because the people of that region were able to absorb the
knowledge from almost the whole Eastern Hemisphere, while others were
more isolated.
As water travel improved enough to allowed ships to travel around the
world, countries with access to oceans began to dominate – Spain,
France, England, Portugal and even the tiny Holland. These countries
were then replaced by the United States, a country with a constant flow
of immigrants from all over the world.
It is true that not every country located in key location is going to be
a mega-power, since there can only be very few super-powers. But history
shows that the only countries that succeeded are the countries located
in places that allowed them to borrow knowledge.
Take a look at Germany. It is located in the middle of Europe, allowing
it to borrow knowledge from West, East, South and North Europe. Yet, it
does not have easy access to non-European countries. Thus, it has always
been a successful country, but never emerged as a super-power for a
significant time (a few years in the 1940’s is not a long time).
In the view of anti-globalists, each country should isolate itself and
find an “indigenous” solution. To suggest that any knowledge can be
gained from the evil Western morons is racist.
I disagree. All the people of the world can contribute and those who
keep themselves isolated from others will be left behind. Some of the
isolated Pacific islands did not even know how to make fire when they
were invaded just a few centuries ago. That is the by-product of isolation.
I also disagree that there is a finite amount of wealth in the world and
if one country succeeds, another must fail. There is no manna from God
that needs to be divided. Natural resources are treated by people who
don’t understand economics as the source of wealth. Yet, no respectable
economist would make such a ridiculous statement. Modern economies
become rich because they invest, develop and improve products and
services. Only tiny nations with vast amounts of natural resources, such
as Kuwait, can rely on God’s gifts.
Since embracing world trade and moving away from Communist policies in
favor of what is increasingly a free-market, China has become a major
producer of world goods. We do not suffer because Chinese are doing
better today than 25 years ago. We benefit from it because we can buy
goods that are cheaper or better or just more desirable. Likewise if
Africa, North Korea and all the other countries embrace proper economic
policies, including free-trade and globalization, we will again benefit
from the products of their brains and labor.
Development is truly a win-win preposition. The people who invent,
develop or improve goods can make a profit, while all others can now
benefit from better or cheaper goods. And it also frees up companies and
people currently producing undesirable goods to produce other products.
Thus, not only will the West not suffer if the Third World develops its
economy, it will actually benefit greatly. The theory that there is a
conspiracy by the West to keep the Third World down is preposterous for
the simple reason that the West would benefit from development of Third
World countries, much the same way it benefited from economic progress
in China and India, as well as Japan, South Korea, Spain and Greece in
past decades.
When the United States signed a free-trade agreement (NAFTA) with
Mexico, it was claimed by anti-globalists that (1) Americans will be
starving on the streets of New York and Los Angeles because all jobs
will be stolen by Mexicans; and simultaneously that (2) Americans will
get rich robbing Mexicans.
Yet, by any objective measure, Free Trade, in general, and NAFTA, in
particular, has been a spectacular success. Not only did trade with
Mexico triple in 10 years, but unemployment also went down to historical
lows at 3.9% The manufacturing output of the United States increased by
41% in the 10 years following NAFTA, compared to 34% in the 10 years
preceding it. [Daniel T. Griswold, 2004. After 10 Years, NAFTA Continues
to Pay Dividends. [Online. Cited May 8, 2004] Cato Institute. Available
from the World Wide Web: (http://www.cato.org/dailys/01-08-04.html)]
Moreover, the Economist (United Kingdom) reported that despite the
outcry about outsourcing of American jobs, "at the national level, more
jobs are outsourced to America than the other way around. American
workers, in other words, are net beneficiaries of outsourcing (it goes
without saying that consumers always were). And in the cross-border
trade of white-collar services, a chief concern, America's surplus with
the rest of the world is not shrinking; it is growing." [Economist,
April 7, 2004. When Good News Spells Trouble. [Online. Cited May 14,
2004] Available on the World Wide Web at:
(http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2572245)]
Additionally, many jobs are created in the United States as a result of
outsourcing. For example, cheaper goods are sold in higher volume, which
means more jobs for salespeople, advertisers, store managers, drivers
and transporters of the goods, store janitors, and all the other people
associated with shopping or that surround shopping centers (e.g., a
restaurant in a mall that benefits from an increasing number of visitors
to stores).
As the longest economic boom in American history came to an end due to
(1) economic cycles; (2) bursting of the hi-tech bubble; (3) September
11; and (4) Corporate scandals, some have begun to blame free trade
agreements. Yet, compare this recession to others. Unemployment never
rose above 5.6% and the recession was one of the quickest in history.
Mexico similarly benefited from the tens of thousands of jobs created
there. Mexicans who work for American companies were not the only ones
who enjoy the by-products of NAFTA. More jobs means higher demand for
workers, while the supply of workers remains the same. As employers, of
any nationality, are faced with fewer and fewer job applicants, they are
forced to raise salaries to attract workers. It also forces employers to
provide better benefits, and generally to refrain from behavior that may
drive their employees to competitors. Thus, foreign investment benefits
everyone and not just those working for foreign companies.
Compare NAFTA to the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930, raising tariffs on
more than 200 products, causing not only the American economy, but
economies world-wide to spin into a Depression. As a result of tariffs,
cheaper or better foreign goods could not make their way into the United
States, while American goods could not be traded overseas without a
severe competitive disadvantage. Already, farmers could not participate
in the prosperity of the Roaring-1920’s because of the Fordney-McCumber
Tariff of 1922, causing tremendous hardship for rural communities while
everyone else was prospering. The Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act caused the
same economic devastation in the urban and suburban areas as the
Fordney-McCumber Act caused among farmers. In the wool industry alone,
the 1930 Act caused 60,000 people to lose jobs after the tariffs on wool
rags was increased by 140%. [Lawrence Reed, 1998. Great Myths of the
Great Depression. [Online. Cited May 10, 2004] Mackinac Center for
Public Policy. Available from World Wide Web:
(http://www.mackinac.org/archives/1998/sp1998-01.pdf)] Politicians
thought that they could force Americans to buy U.S.-made goods, thus
solving the problem of increasing unemployment. However, international
trade is a two-way street and, naturally, foreign countries raised their
tariffs as well. Additionally, foreign companies operating in the United
States were often forced to close doors, resulting in job losses in
industries from sales to advertising.
Within months after the enactment of the 1930 Tariffs, unemployment
skyrocketed from around 6% (roughly where it was before the Stock Market
Crash of 1929) to almost 15%. [Richard K. Vedder & Lowell E. Gallaway,
Out of Work, Unemployment and Government in Twentieth-Century America.
New York University Press, 1993, 1997, p. 78.]
Without the previously established foreign traders, many goods could no
longer be sold. While facilities, man-power and even reserves were meant
for pre-tariff days, there was no market for the goods produced. Thus,
prices plummeted. The price of a bushel of wheat went down 70%. Overall,
consumer prices dropped 25%. [Ibid.]
The above has proven true all over the world. Countries that rejected
globalization and the free-market have suffered.
Additionally, it must be said that the point of working is not merely to
work. If that were true, then why not make the whole population to just
dig useless holes and then fill them up? The point of working is to
produce goods and services that others want. If Mexicans or Chinese can
create products that are better or cheaper or just more desirable than
those made by American companies, then American businesses should either
improve or do something else that consumers actually want. To force
consumers to purchase goods they don’t want makes the world economy
worse. By letting each company or country to produce the best goods –
“best” as judged by what consumers choose to spend money on – we make
the world economy better for the simple reason that everyone is
producing better goods, thus the overall world product becomes better.
Globalization alone is not enough. Countries must also create
business-friendly environments. When countries impose huge tax rates
upon business and investors, they simply chase them away – and get no
tax revenue at all. Is it any wonder that Cameroon (60% income tax),
Ethiopia (89%) and Zimbabwe (45% plus another 30% surcharge on top of
that) are poor?! [http://www.wanniski.com/showarticle.asp?articleid=3011]
When huge taxes are imposed, it causes (1) corruption by people trying
to avoid being robbed by the government; (2) withdrawal of investment.
Withdrawn investment means development of oppressive monopolies (since
there is often not enough after-tax income to be divided among multiple
companies), high prices (to allow companies to pay taxes and still get a
return on their investment) and low salaries (again to pay taxes and
also because companies don’t have to compete for workers in a high-tax
environment that causes monopolies to emerge).
The movement against free trade is nothing more than xenophobia and
racism. The anti-globalist left hates Westerners. The anti-globalist
right hates Third World people. Both are trying to isolate themselves
from the world through high tariffs and high taxes. Neither the
anti-globalist left nor the anti-globalist right is democratic,
preferring that power-hungry, often-corrupt politicians decide for the
people, rather than to allow the people themselves to decide what they
want to buy, who they want to work for and where they want to invest.
http://globalpolitician.com/articles.asp?ID=324
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| User: "Immortalist" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
15 Feb 2005 12:06:51 PM |
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"doog" <doog@toz.it.na> wrote in message news:420F0C7F.1030305@toz.it.na...
Immortalist's defense of capitalists[lovers of money] greed[love of money]
as a model/engine for economic growth at the expense of others is both
ludicrous, inhumane, and insane. Not suprising since immortalist is most
likely a bio-machine defending ITs programmed life by running ITs
programmed program of educated-idiocy IT has been taught to
believe/protect/defend/serve.
With that...
The moral justification of capitalism does not lie in the altruist claim
that it represents the best way to achieve 'the common good.' It is true
that capitalism does but this is merely a secondary consequence. The moral
justification for capitalism lies in the fact that it is the only system
consonant with man's rational nature, that it protects man's survival qua
man, and its ruling principle is: Justice.
--Ayn Rand
http://www.capitalism.org/
Celebrate Capitalism!
"For the love of freedom! And the glory of human creativity!"
Capitalism is the only system based on the recognition that each individual
owns his life. Capitalism is the only social system in which individuals are
free to pursue their rational self-interest, to own property and to profit
from their actions. It entrenches individual rights, limited Constitutional
government, and political/intellectual/economic freedom.
The more capitalist a culture - the greater its freedom and prosperity
That is the verdict of history. In just two short centuries, capitalism has
lifted men’s living standards to heights undreamed of in the pre-capitalist
era. Often forgotten today is that Western Europe, prior to the capitalist
revolution of the late Eighteenth Century, suffering under the political
yoke of the feudal aristocracy, was the equivalent of a Third World
country - wracked by famine, recurrent plague, and the most unspeakable
poverty. But no longer.
When was the last time a famine occurred in any capitalist nation - whether
in Western Europe, North America or Asia? The United States has never
suffered a famine in its history. Capitalism has created abundance unmatched
in human history, enabling hundreds of millions to live better today than
all the kings of yesterday.
Less capitalism means more human misery
But the non capitalist nations - the fascist, socialist, military or
theocratic dictatorships - enslave their own citizens and subsist in abysmal
squalor. In many African countries the living standard is one or two hundred
dollars per year. In North Korea, they starve to death by the tens of
thousands. In Cuba, they drown trying to swim to freedom in the United
States. Millions of oppressed people around the globe yearn to emigrate to
the Free World. But who in the capitalist nations seeks to emigrate to
Cambodia?
http://www.celebratecapitalism.org/
http://www.celebratecapitalism.org/bernsteindeclaration/english/index.html
Capitalism is a difficult, problematic term; it applies to a diversity of
phenomenon spread across disparate historical cultures with substantially
variable world views. However, the term is an Enlightenment European term
used to describe European practices; so the term "capitalism" means more
than just a body of social practices easily applied across geographical and
historical distances, it is also a "way of thinking," and as a way of
thinking does not necessarily apply to earlier European origins of
capitalism or to capitalism as practiced in other cultures.
The earliest forms of capitalism—which we call "mercantilism"—originate in
Rome, the Middle East, and the early Middle Ages. Mercantilism might be
roughly defined as the distribution of goods in order to realize a profit.
Goods are bought at one site for a certain price and moved to another site
and sold at a higher price. As the Roman empire expanded, mercantilism
correspondingly expanded. But the contraction of the Roman empire from the
fifth century onwards also contracted mercantilism until, by the 700's, it
was not a substantial aspect of European culture, that is, European
economies tended to localize. Arabic cultures, on the other hand, had a long
history of mercantilism, living as they did on the trade routes between
three great empires: Egypt, Persia, and later Byzantium. As Islam from the
seventh century A.D. onwards spread like wildfire across Northern Africa,
Spain, the Middle East and Asia, Arabic mercantilism assumed an
unprecedented global character. The medieval Europeans essentially learned
mercantilism from their Islamic neighbors, evidenced in large part by the
number of economic terms in European languages that are derived from Arabic,
such as tariff and traffic. From the 1300's, Europeans would begin expanding
their mercantile practices, resulting in a social mobility hitherto unseen
in European culture as well as pushing Europeans, as it did the Muslims, to
explore distant parts of the globe. The voyages of discovery were entirely
driven by mercantile ambitions.
As time went on in Europe, mercantilism gradually evolved into economic
practices that would eventually be called capitalism. Capitalism is based on
the same principle as mercantilism: the large-scale realization of a profit
by acquiring goods for lower prices than one sells them.
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/GLOSSARY/CAPITAL.HTM
http://www.capitalism.net/Capitalism/CAPITALISM%20Internet.pdf
.
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| User: "doog" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
16 Feb 2005 03:05:05 PM |
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Immortalist wrote:
"doog" <doog@toz.it.na> wrote in message news:420F0C7F.1030305@toz.it.na...
Immortalist's defense of capitalists[lovers of money] greed[love of
money] as a model/engine for economic growth at the expense of others
is both ludicrous, inhumane, and insane. Not suprising since
immortalist is most likely a bio-machine defending ITs programmed life
by running ITs programmed program of educated-idiocy IT has been
taught to believe/protect/defend/serve.
With that...
The moral justification of capitalism does not lie in the altruist claim
that it represents the best way to achieve 'the common good.' It is true
that capitalism does but this is merely a secondary consequence. The
moral justification for capitalism lies in the fact that it is the only
system consonant with man's rational nature, that it protects man's
survival qua man, and its ruling principle is: Justice.
--Ayn Rand
http://www.capitalism.org/
Celebrate Capitalism!
"For the love of freedom! And the glory of human creativity!"
Capitalism is the only system based on the recognition that each
individual owns his life. Capitalism is the only social system in which
individuals are free to pursue their rational self-interest, to own
property and to profit from their actions. It entrenches individual
rights, limited Constitutional government, and
political/intellectual/economic freedom.
The more capitalist a culture - the greater its freedom and prosperity
That is the verdict of history. In just two short centuries, capitalism
has lifted men’s living standards to heights undreamed of in the
pre-capitalist era. Often forgotten today is that Western Europe, prior
to the capitalist revolution of the late Eighteenth Century, suffering
under the political yoke of the feudal aristocracy, was the equivalent
of a Third World country - wracked by famine, recurrent plague, and the
most unspeakable poverty. But no longer.
When was the last time a famine occurred in any capitalist nation -
whether in Western Europe, North America or Asia? The United States has
never suffered a famine in its history. Capitalism has created abundance
unmatched in human history, enabling hundreds of millions to live better
today than all the kings of yesterday.
Less capitalism means more human misery
But the non capitalist nations - the fascist, socialist, military or
theocratic dictatorships - enslave their own citizens and subsist in
abysmal squalor. In many African countries the living standard is one or
two hundred dollars per year. In North Korea, they starve to death by
the tens of thousands. In Cuba, they drown trying to swim to freedom in
the United States. Millions of oppressed people around the globe yearn
to emigrate to the Free World. But who in the capitalist nations seeks
to emigrate to Cambodia?
http://www.celebratecapitalism.org/
http://www.celebratecapitalism.org/bernsteindeclaration/english/index.html
Capitalism is a difficult, problematic term; it applies to a diversity
of phenomenon spread across disparate historical cultures with
substantially variable world views. However, the term is an
Enlightenment European term used to describe European practices; so the
term "capitalism" means more than just a body of social practices easily
applied across geographical and historical distances, it is also a "way
of thinking," and as a way of thinking does not necessarily apply to
earlier European origins of capitalism or to capitalism as practiced in
other cultures.
The earliest forms of capitalism—which we call "mercantilism"—originate
in Rome, the Middle East, and the early Middle Ages. Mercantilism might
be roughly defined as the distribution of goods in order to realize a
profit. Goods are bought at one site for a certain price and moved to
another site and sold at a higher price. As the Roman empire expanded,
mercantilism correspondingly expanded. But the contraction of the Roman
empire from the fifth century onwards also contracted mercantilism
until, by the 700's, it was not a substantial aspect of European
culture, that is, European economies tended to localize. Arabic
cultures, on the other hand, had a long history of mercantilism, living
as they did on the trade routes between three great empires: Egypt,
Persia, and later Byzantium. As Islam from the seventh century A.D.
onwards spread like wildfire across Northern Africa, Spain, the Middle
East and Asia, Arabic mercantilism assumed an unprecedented global
character. The medieval Europeans essentially learned mercantilism from
their Islamic neighbors, evidenced in large part by the number of
economic terms in European languages that are derived from Arabic, such
as tariff and traffic. From the 1300's, Europeans would begin expanding
their mercantile practices, resulting in a social mobility hitherto
unseen in European culture as well as pushing Europeans, as it did the
Muslims, to explore distant parts of the globe. The voyages of discovery
were entirely driven by mercantile ambitions.
As time went on in Europe, mercantilism gradually evolved into economic
practices that would eventually be called capitalism. Capitalism is
based on the same principle as mercantilism: the large-scale realization
of a profit by acquiring goods for lower prices than one sells them.
http://www.wsu.edu:8080/~dee/GLOSSARY/CAPITAL.HTM
http://www.capitalism.net/Capitalism/CAPITALISM%20Internet.pdf
Capitalism is guilty of profound crimes against humanity throughout history.
The love of money[capitalism] is the root for all evil throughout history.
Claiming capitalism[love of money] is a good thing is sheer lunacy.
Defending the indefensible is a lesson in educated idiocy.
Why not simply learn to share for the good of all our relations?
Why not make all in-common goods and services free for all?
Why not barter for all un-common goods and services?
usuryfree.net
reformation.org/moneychangers.html
abolishmoney.com
.
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| User: "tadchem" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
16 Feb 2005 04:26:39 PM |
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"doog" <doog@toz.it.na> wrote in message news:4213B581.2070502@toz.it.na...
<snip repost>
Capitalism is guilty of profound crimes against humanity throughout
history.
"Capitalism" is not a physical entity. All of those "profound crimes
against humanity throughout history" were committed by human beings - who
*are* physical intities.
The love of money[capitalism] is the root for all evil throughout history.
1Timothy 6:10
Your spurious re-definition of "capitalism" as "the love of money" is only
approximate. It is comparable to defining "calculus" as "the love of
numbers."
Claiming capitalism[love of money] is a good thing is sheer lunacy.
Capitalism is a creation of man. Like anything else, it can be *used* as a
toy, a tool, or a weapon. The determination of "good" or "evil" is only
made ex post facto with respect to the use, and only in the determination of
a *human* judgment (and therefore a determination from a limited
perspective) of the *consequences* of the use.
Defending the indefensible is a lesson in educated idiocy.
So are misdirected attacks. Are *you* learning anything here?
Why not simply learn to share for the good of all our relations?
"Sharing" is a nice, idealistic, Utopian, Communist, Collectivistic,
Altruistic, Essene, Christian concept. As long as there is a single
dystopian individual on the planet it will fail. Once all the dystopians
have been permanently removed from the planet, it will succeed.
Killing (or forcibly altering the mind-set of) even one dystopian will make
more dystopians.
Why not make all in-common goods and services free for all?
Ever since the inevntion of money, capitalism has proven to be the most
powerful motivator of creative and productive human activity available.
Why not barter for all un-common goods and services?
Because barter is unquantified. It will inevitably lead to disagreements
over the relative value of goods/services, and consequent perceptions of
injustice.
Capitalism made trading "fair."
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
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| User: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \dlzc\ N: dlzc1 D:cox" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
16 Feb 2005 03:32:10 PM |
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Dear doog:
"doog" <doog@toz.it.na> wrote in message news:4213B581.2070502@toz.it.na...
....
Defending the indefensible is a lesson in educated idiocy.
Then kiss your butt goodbye. Capitalism has allowed the surface of the
Earth to be over-populated, more than it can support on some simpler model.
So the resulting collapse will take out nearly everyone you know.
Why not simply learn to share for the good of all our relations?
Opinions are shared. Knowledge, for the most part, is shared. Money is a
unit of trust. In the US, we even state that on every money unit.
Why not make all in-common goods and services free for all?
When the Beast provides us all these "goods and services", they will be
nearly free for all. Until then, you get trusted when you do the work.
Why not barter for all un-common goods and services?
Because if you don't farm or mine, you are support personnel. Barter
cannot support the population in the world today. Go back to the Dark
Ages, there was room for that then.
David A. Smith
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| User: "Gordon" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
16 Feb 2005 04:31:15 PM |
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On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:05:05 -0900, doog <doog@toz.it.na> wrote:
[snip]
Capitalism is guilty of profound crimes against humanity throughout history.
Are you insinuating that no other form of government or social
organization has any of these undesirable traits? What should
Capitalism be replaced with?
The love of money[capitalism] is the root for all evil throughout history.
I suppose the love of money was not a significant factor in any
of those tyrant regimes that have existed throughout the history
of man?
Claiming capitalism[love of money] is a good thing is sheer lunacy.
Being rid of Capitalism, and replacing it with??? Communism?
Anarchy? Feudalism? or what ever, would be a major improvement,
huh?
Defending the indefensible is a lesson in educated idiocy.
As illustrated in the preceding post, here.
Why not simply learn to share for the good of all our relations?
If you can provide means for generating and sustaining equal
motivation and honest integrity among all constituents, this
would work. The problem here is that people are not equally
motivated, nor are they all honest. There always has been, and
always will be those who won't carry their own load, but will
grab "their share" of all that the motivated producers can
provide for them.
Why not make all in-common goods and services free for all?
Why not barter for all un-common goods and services?
Then sit back and watch the freeloaders and deadbeats bleed the
system to death, while those who were motivated and honest would
be compelled to carry the bulk of the load...thanks, but I
believe I'll pass on this one.
usuryfree.net
reformation.org/moneychangers.html
abolishmoney.com
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| User: "tj Frazir" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
13 Feb 2005 01:14:54 PM |
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Capatalisem dont start the wars.
Free trade built the frst and last city.
Corupt protection of a monopoly by the Gov is what starts wars and why
people go without.
The monoply claims you will loose your job .
the Gov protects it and stops all import and then the price goes up till
1/2 the people cant afor it and go without anyway.
The monoply and the gov get rich if they stop the trade.
But with the trade your prices drop and you live with more and the
monoply is no more.
The jobs lost are peplaced to fit the market ballance.
The usa gov is fucking you so the oil co makes more.
So the gov uses the meadia to feed the population a pile of *****.
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| User: "Sea Squid" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
16 Feb 2005 12:33:06 AM |
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I am in doubt of Peak Oil concept. I listened to some interviews on the
globalpublicmedia.com
and found that those people all spread all sorts of unsolicited evidences
and claims, for example
using water in human body as an awkward analogy to the oil & gas, converting
to localized
communities, immobilized cities when there is no oil, alternative energy
source like solar & wind
won't save the earth etc. These claims erodes the credibility of the peak
oil advocalists.
I am suspicious these to be a propaganda compaign by the oil & gas industry
in order to justify
their price manipulation and to pop up the gas prices.
"doog" <doog@toz.it.na> wrote in message news:420C3BCC.4040701@toz.it.na...
http://www.the7thfire.com/peak_oil/peak_oil_is_a_scam_to_promote_world_depopulation.htm
Clearly, peak oil/mass death is a byproduct of monied madness. Peak oil
claims are designed to justify mass death in order to ensure the health
of monied madness.
===
Money is a new and terrible form of slavery, and like the old form of
personal slavery it demoralizes both slave and slave-owner, only much
more, for it frees the slave and the slave owner from personal, human
relations with one another. — Nikoli Tolstoy, What Must We Do?, 1886
===
Pelatiah Webster says of this paper and the continental currency: "We
have suffered more from this cause than from any other cause or
calamity. It has killed more men, pervaded and corrupted the choicest
interests of our country and done more injustice than even the arms and
artifices of our enemies." — John Knox, United States Notes, "Paper
Money A Cause of the Revolution," 1899
===
The love of money is the mother-city of all evils. — Diogenes, Apothegm,
c.350 BC
===
Revolted by the unscrupulous pursuit of wealth that marked the age, and
shocked by the splendor and luxury of some clergymen, Saint Francis of
Assisi, denounced money itself as a devil and a curse and bade his
followers despise it as dung. — Will Durant, The Age of Faith, 1950
===
"So I say to you, use your worldly wealth to win friends for yourselves,
so that when money is a thing of the past you may be received into an
eternal home. . . "No servant can be the slave of two masters; for
either he will hate the first and love the second, or he will be devoted
to the first and think nothing of the second. You cannot serve God and
Money." The Pharisees, who loved money heard all this and scoffed at
him. — Jesus (Luke 16, NEV)
===
Let there be a small country with few people,
Who, even having much machinery, don't use it.
Who take death seriously and don't wander far away.
Even though they have boats and carriages, they never ride in them.
Having armor and weapons, they never go to war.
Let them return to measurement by tying knots in rope. [Let them not
need Money. — Raquel]
Sweeten their food, give them nice clothes, a peaceful abode and a
relaxed life.
Even though the next country can be seen and its dogs and chickens can
be heard,
The people will grow old and die without visiting each others land.
—Tao Te Ching (#80), Translated by Charles Muller
===
Money is the sinews of war.
— Tacitus, Cicero, Plato, Massinger, James Payn, Libanius, James VI of
Scotland, Arthur Murphy, Plutarch, John Lyly, George Peele, George
Farquhar, Carlyle, Thomas Fuller, John Fletcher, Rabelias, Arthur Hull,
O. Henry, Michael Scott, etc., etc.
===
In Utopia all greed for money was entirely removed with the use of
money. What a mass of troubles was then cut away! What a crop of crimes
was then pulled up by the roots! Who does not know that fraud, theft,
rapine, quarrels, disorders, brawls, seditions, murders, treasons,
poisonings, which are avenged rather than restrained by daily
executions, die out with the destruction of money? Who does not know
that fear, anxiety, worries, toils, and sleepless nights will also
perish at the same time as money? What is more, poverty, which alone
money seemed to make poor, forthwith would itself dwindle and disappear
if money were entirely done away with everywhere. — Saint Thomas More,
Utopia, 1516
===
Why not simply call for an end to monied madness and learn to share for
the good of all our relations? How? Talk about ways to end monied
madness in order to live free from monied madness.
http://www.usuryfree.net
http://www.reformation.org/moneychangers.html
http://www.abolishmoney.com
All in-common goods/services free for the good of all.
Barter all un-common goods/services.
Hope this helps
Pass it on
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
16 Feb 2005 10:18:28 PM |
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I agree with your "doubt of Peak Oil concept", because the
Peak Oil concept will be around for a VERY LONG TIME as
can be easily seen by Chemistry 101 which will show that
none one should hope for fossil oil to get scarce or to run out!
Not a chance. Ain't gonna happen. Listen. Initially, "they" say
the earth had an anaerobic envelope:~0 % O2. Present was only
(relevant) CO2 and Carbonates. Photosynth. etc. has liberated by
now ~21% free O2 into the air: That translates into ~1E+21 gr
or ~1E+15 tons of available O2. So, each 32 gr O2 buried
somewhere 12-14 gr = 1 C (max CH4). Hence, there
is 1E+21 * 12/32 = 5E+20 gr or ~ 5.E+14 tons of fossil C
in store. So, at a current use of 3E+15 gr/yr of oil, the fossil
stuff will be reoxydised in 5E+20 gr/3E+15 gr/yr =~ 1.5E+05 years!.
Alas, no EARLIER than in 150'000 years from now will all the fossil
carbon be burned.
Therefore that OIL PEAK concept will be used for a long long time
to maximize profits $ wise and politically..... ahahaha...
Also, the cherished, dooms-day of now or tomorrow as predicted by
green shits, enviro turds and all the little green idiots will not arrive
till after global warming is over and/or the next Ice age is gone.
Greenies are of course in total denial over this obvious result because
it will disturb their agenda to get graft from their extortions via permit
charges, user fees, enviro surtaxes and the carbon tax, which also
shows that environmentalism is only a pure money game using "enviro"
as their gimmick. Similarly, the oil producers, as explained above, are
equally happy with the official uncertainty about the reserves, since
it allows them to milk the oil beast for max profit. And like enviros, the
oil boys too are of course in their biz for the sake of money also. It's
about money! It's ALL about money, and money is GREEN & SLIPPERY!
Not that there is anything wrong with either. So, expect the fight to last.
ahahaha... ahahahanson
"Sea Squid" <Sea.Squid@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4212e7e7$1@news.starhub.net.sg...
I am in doubt of Peak Oil concept. I listened to some interviews on the
globalpublicmedia.com
and found that those people all spread all sorts of unsolicited evidences
and claims, for example
using water in human body as an awkward analogy to the oil & gas, converting
to localized
communities, immobilized cities when there is no oil, alternative energy
source like solar & wind
won't save the earth etc. These claims erodes the credibility of the peak
oil advocalists.
I am suspicious these to be a propaganda compaign by the oil & gas industry
in order to justify
their price manipulation and to pop up the gas prices.
"doog" <doog@toz.it.na> wrote in message news:420C3BCC.4040701@toz.it.na...
http://www.the7thfire.com/peak_oil/peak_oil_is_a_scam_to_promote_world_depopulation.htm
Clearly, peak oil/mass death is a byproduct of monied madness. Peak oil
claims are designed to justify mass death in order to ensure the health
of monied madness.
===
Money is a new and terrible form of slavery, and like the old form of
personal slavery it demoralizes both slave and slave-owner, only much
more, for it frees the slave and the slave owner from personal, human
relations with one another. — Nikoli Tolstoy, What Must We Do?, 1886
===
Pelatiah Webster says of this paper and the continental currency: "We
have suffered more from this cause than from any other cause or
calamity. It has killed more men, pervaded and corrupted the choicest
interests of our country and done more injustice than even the arms and
artifices of our enemies." — John Knox, United States Notes, "Paper
Money A Cause of the Revolution," 1899
===
The love of money is the mother-city of all evils. — Diogenes, Apothegm,
c.350 BC
===
Revolted by the unscrupulous pursuit of wealth that marked the age, and
shocked by the splendor and luxury of some clergymen, Saint Francis of
Assisi, denounced money itself as a devil and a curse and bade his
followers despise it as dung. — Will Durant, The Age of Faith, 1950
===
"So I say to you, use your worldly wealth to win friends for yourselves,
so that when money is a thing of the past you may be received into an
eternal home. . . "No servant can be the slave of two masters; for
either he will hate the first and love the second, or he will be devoted
to the first and think nothing of the second. You cannot serve God and
Money." The Pharisees, who loved money heard all this and scoffed at
him. — Jesus (Luke 16, NEV)
===
Let there be a small country with few people,
Who, even having much machinery, don't use it.
Who take death seriously and don't wander far away.
Even though they have boats and carriages, they never ride in them.
Having armor and weapons, they never go to war.
Let them return to measurement by tying knots in rope. [Let them not
need Money. — Raquel]
Sweeten their food, give them nice clothes, a peaceful abode and a
relaxed life.
Even though the next country can be seen and its dogs and chickens can
be heard,
The people will grow old and die without visiting each others land.
—Tao Te Ching (#80), Translated by Charles Muller
===
Money is the sinews of war.
— Tacitus, Cicero, Plato, Massinger, James Payn, Libanius, James VI of
Scotland, Arthur Murphy, Plutarch, John Lyly, George Peele, George
Farquhar, Carlyle, Thomas Fuller, John Fletcher, Rabelias, Arthur Hull,
O. Henry, Michael Scott, etc., etc.
===
In Utopia all greed for money was entirely removed with the use of
money. What a mass of troubles was then cut away! What a crop of crimes
was then pulled up by the roots! Who does not know that fraud, theft,
rapine, quarrels, disorders, brawls, seditions, murders, treasons,
poisonings, which are avenged rather than restrained by daily
executions, die out with the destruction of money? Who does not know
that fear, anxiety, worries, toils, and sleepless nights will also
perish at the same time as money? What is more, poverty, which alone
money seemed to make poor, forthwith would itself dwindle and disappear
if money were entirely done away with everywhere. — Saint Thomas More,
Utopia, 1516
===
Why not simply call for an end to monied madness and learn to share for
the good of all our relations? How? Talk about ways to end monied
madness in order to live free from monied madness.
http://www.usuryfree.net
http://www.reformation.org/moneychangers.html
http://www.abolishmoney.com
All in-common goods/services free for the good of all.
Barter all un-common goods/services.
Hope this helps
Pass it on
.
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| User: "Gordon" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
11 Feb 2005 09:44:52 AM |
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On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 19:59:56 -0900, doog <doog@toz.it.na> wrote:
[snip]
Why not simply call for an end to monied madness and learn to share for
the good of all our relations? How? Talk about ways to end monied
madness in order to live free from monied madness.
[snip]
It simply won't work the way you advocate! Below is an old poem
copied from a microfilmed archive of the early days newspaper
published in my home town. It sums the situation up very
succinctly.
This message delivered by this old poem was reflected in a bumper
sticker I saw yesterday;
"Keep working hard and don't let up. Lotsa welfare bums depend on
people like you for their living."
From a microfilmed copy of the ARNETT LEADER newspaper, published
at Arnett, Oklahoma, February 16, 1912, Front Page, Columns 2&3
Which Are You
There are two kinds of people on earth today
Just two kinds of people, no more, I say
Not the sinner and saint, for 'tis well understood
The good are half bad, and the bad are half good
Not the rich and the poor, for to count someone's wealth
You must first know the state of their conscience and health.
Not the humble and proud, for you see it's like this,
The humble are proud, and the proud are remiss.
Not the happy and sad, for the swift flying years
Bring each one their laughter and each one their tears.
No, the two kinds of people on earth I mean,
Are the people who lift and the people who lean.
Wherever you go, you will find the world's masses
Are always divided in just these two classes.
And oddly enough you will find too, I mean,
There is only one lifter to twenty who lean.
In which class are you? Are you easing the load,
Of overtaxed lifters who toil down the road?
Or are you a leaner, who lets the other bear
Your portion of labor and worry and care?
H.N. Yerton
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| User: "John Jones" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
11 Feb 2005 01:31:06 AM |
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doog wrote:
http://www.the7thfire.com/peak_oil/peak_oil_is_a_scam_to_promote_world_depopulation.htm
Clearly, peak oil/mass death is a byproduct of monied madness. Peak
oil
claims are designed to justify mass death in order to ensure the
health
of monied madness.
===
Money is a new and terrible form of slavery, and like the old form of
personal slavery it demoralizes both slave and slave-owner, only much
more, for it frees the slave and the slave owner from personal, human
relations with one another. - Nikoli Tolstoy, What Must We Do?,
1886
===
Pelatiah Webster says of this paper and the continental currency: "We
have suffered more from this cause than from any other cause or
calamity. It has killed more men, pervaded and corrupted the choicest
interests of our country and done more injustice than even the arms
and
artifices of our enemies." - John Knox, United States Notes, "Paper
Money A Cause of the Revolution," 1899
===
The love of money is the mother-city of all evils. - Diogenes,
Apothegm,
c.350 BC
===
Revolted by the unscrupulous pursuit of wealth that marked the age,
and
shocked by the splendor and luxury of some clergymen, Saint Francis
of
Assisi, denounced money itself as a devil and a curse and bade his
followers despise it as dung. - Will Durant, The Age of Faith, 1950
===
"So I say to you, use your worldly wealth to win friends for
yourselves,
so that when money is a thing of the past you may be received into an
eternal home. . . "No servant can be the slave of two masters; for
either he will hate the first and love the second, or he will be
devoted
to the first and think nothing of the second. You cannot serve God
and
Money." The Pharisees, who loved money heard all this and scoffed at
him. - Jesus (Luke 16, NEV)
===
Let there be a small country with few people,
Who, even having much machinery, don't use it.
Who take death seriously and don't wander far away.
Even though they have boats and carriages, they never ride in them.
Having armor and weapons, they never go to war.
Let them return to measurement by tying knots in rope. [Let them not
need Money. - Raquel]
Sweeten their food, give them nice clothes, a peaceful abode and a
relaxed life.
Even though the next country can be seen and its dogs and chickens
can
be heard,
The people will grow old and die without visiting each others land.
-Tao Te Ching (#80), Translated by Charles Muller
===
Money is the sinews of war.
- Tacitus, Cicero, Plato, Massinger, James Payn, Libanius, James VI
of
Scotland, Arthur Murphy, Plutarch, John Lyly, George Peele, George
Farquhar, Carlyle, Thomas Fuller, John Fletcher, Rabelias, Arthur
Hull,
O. Henry, Michael Scott, etc., etc.
===
In Utopia all greed for money was entirely removed with the use of
money. What a mass of troubles was then cut away! What a crop of
crimes
was then pulled up by the roots! Who does not know that fraud, theft,
rapine, quarrels, disorders, brawls, seditions, murders, treasons,
poisonings, which are avenged rather than restrained by daily
executions, die out with the destruction of money? Who does not know
that fear, anxiety, worries, toils, and sleepless nights will also
perish at the same time as money? What is more, poverty, which alone
money seemed to make poor, forthwith would itself dwindle and
disappear
if money were entirely done away with everywhere. - Saint Thomas
More,
Utopia, 1516
===
Why not simply call for an end to monied madness and learn to share
for
the good of all our relations? How? Talk about ways to end monied
madness in order to live free from monied madness.
http://www.usuryfree.net
http://www.reformation.org/moneychangers.html
http://www.abolishmoney.com
All in-common goods/services free for the good of all.
Barter all un-common goods/services.
Hope this helps
Pass it on
That was a long boring list of quotes. So if you want a response, I
would say that it was a long boring list of quotes.
JJ
.
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
11 Feb 2005 09:56:59 AM |
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doog wrote:
http://www.the7thfire.com/peak_oil/peak_oil_is_a_scam_to_promote_world_depopulation.htm
Clearly, peak oil/mass death is a byproduct of monied madness. Peak oil
claims are designed to justify mass death in order to ensure the health
of monied madness.
[snip]
If you exercised greater intelligence you would be subject to less
public ridicule. If you confined your whining to non-science
newsgroups you would impact a more receptive mob. If you took a
decent English class you might write an entertaining polemic.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
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| Title: Re: peak oil revisited |
11 Feb 2005 01:17:24 AM |
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doog wrote:
http://www.the7thfire.com/peak_oil/peak_oil_is_a_scam_to_promote_world_depopulation.htm
Clearly, peak oil/mass death is a byproduct of monied madness. Peak oil
claims are designed to justify mass death in order to ensure the health
of monied madness.
The comeback, 'Who Cares?'
Best, Dan.
--
http://lakeweb.net
http://ReserveAnalyst.com
No EXTRA stuff for email.
What can you see if you can't see it all...
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