| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Stephen Morris" |
| Date: |
03 Jul 2004 12:37:05 PM |
| Object: |
Physics in College? |
I'm not sure if this is the place to post this question, but I assume
that there will be a lot of knowledgable parties frequenting this
newsgroup that might have some answers to my questions.
I graduated high school in May, and I'll be attending college in the
fall. I left high school with a bitter taste in my mouth towards math
and science, in part because of a handful of poor teachers and (in
larger part) due to the tendency of high school math and science
classes teaching just what you need to get high marks on standardized
tests.
Now I'm worried, tho, because I feel like I may have squandered an
opportunity here. I've subscribed to magazines like Scientific American
for most of my life, and just recently reread A Brief History of Time
and The Elegant Universe and realized that I actually do love science
(more specifically cosmology.)
If I try to major/minor in a science field, with my limited interested
in math and science in high school (I took the basic Bio/Bio
II/Chemistry, which was all memorization and took math up to
PreCalculus/Trig) will I be completely lost, or is there still a chance
that I could turn myself around?
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| User: "Greysky" |
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| Title: Re: Physics in College? |
03 Jul 2004 02:10:42 PM |
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"Stephen Morris" <smorris@siu.edu> wrote in message
news:2004070312370516807%smorris@siuedu...
I'm not sure if this is the place to post this question, but I assume
that there will be a lot of knowledgable parties frequenting this
newsgroup that might have some answers to my questions.
I graduated high school in May, and I'll be attending college in the
fall. I left high school with a bitter taste in my mouth towards math
and science, in part because of a handful of poor teachers and (in
larger part) due to the tendency of high school math and science
classes teaching just what you need to get high marks on standardized
tests.
Now I'm worried, tho, because I feel like I may have squandered an
opportunity here. I've subscribed to magazines like Scientific American
for most of my life, and just recently reread A Brief History of Time
and The Elegant Universe and realized that I actually do love science
(more specifically cosmology.)
If I try to major/minor in a science field, with my limited interested
in math and science in high school (I took the basic Bio/Bio
II/Chemistry, which was all memorization and took math up to
PreCalculus/Trig) will I be completely lost, or is there still a chance
that I could turn myself around?
Don't worry. It's not too late for you. You will have to start at the bottom
though. To make up for high school, you will need to spend time taking the
'bonehead' math courses. If high school algebra was tough or a burden, don't
even try to sign up for college algebra - you'll be drifting within a week -
some college math teachers are real jerks: the place where I was had a
lottery going. The math teacher who could scare, or cause the most students
to drop out within the first few weeks, won money. A less expensive option
would be to take courses at a junior college for a while. You could get your
skills up to par, while also taking courses that count towards graduation.
And it is much cheaper. Did I mention it will save you *tons* of money? If I
didn't, I'll say it again-you can save up the money to get into a high
powered university while also preparing your brain for the assault that will
be placed upon it. Of course, that applies for any major you choose, not
just science...
Greysky
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| User: "floyd" |
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| Title: Re: Physics in College? |
04 Jul 2004 01:21:16 PM |
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Prerequisites Prerequisites...
Most students that have trouble in Calc have not mastered algebra, and
most
who struggle in DE did not master basic Calc. Sign up for whatever
math class
you need to get started. Who cares if it takes another year or two to
graduate.
Don't assume that students that had these "advanced" classes in HS
know
anything. I've had students with impressive HS transcripts with all
sorts of advanced math, chem, and physics that can talk a good game
but know almost nothing. It makes me wonder what went on in these
classes.
You may find the better schools will not offer the type of Algebra you
need.
All schools have algebra classes for the education majors but this is
not what
you need.
Stephen Morris <smorris@siu.edu> wrote in message news:<2004070312370516807%smorris@siuedu>...
I'm not sure if this is the place to post this question, but I assume
that there will be a lot of knowledgable parties frequenting this
newsgroup that might have some answers to my questions.
I graduated high school in May, and I'll be attending college in the
fall. I left high school with a bitter taste in my mouth towards math
and science, in part because of a handful of poor teachers and (in
larger part) due to the tendency of high school math and science
classes teaching just what you need to get high marks on standardized
tests.
Now I'm worried, tho, because I feel like I may have squandered an
opportunity here. I've subscribed to magazines like Scientific American
for most of my life, and just recently reread A Brief History of Time
and The Elegant Universe and realized that I actually do love science
(more specifically cosmology.)
If I try to major/minor in a science field, with my limited interested
in math and science in high school (I took the basic Bio/Bio
II/Chemistry, which was all memorization and took math up to
PreCalculus/Trig) will I be completely lost, or is there still a chance
that I could turn myself around?
.
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| User: "Jim Black" |
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| Title: Re: Physics in College? |
03 Jul 2004 09:28:35 PM |
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Stephen Morris <smorris@siu.edu> wrote in message news:<2004070312370516807%smorris@siuedu>...
I'm not sure if this is the place to post this question, but I assume
that there will be a lot of knowledgable parties frequenting this
newsgroup that might have some answers to my questions.
I graduated high school in May, and I'll be attending college in the
fall. I left high school with a bitter taste in my mouth towards math
and science, in part because of a handful of poor teachers and (in
larger part) due to the tendency of high school math and science
classes teaching just what you need to get high marks on standardized
tests.
Now I'm worried, tho, because I feel like I may have squandered an
opportunity here. I've subscribed to magazines like Scientific American
for most of my life, and just recently reread A Brief History of Time
and The Elegant Universe and realized that I actually do love science
(more specifically cosmology.)
If I try to major/minor in a science field, with my limited interested
in math and science in high school (I took the basic Bio/Bio
II/Chemistry, which was all memorization and took math up to
PreCalculus/Trig) will I be completely lost, or is there still a chance
that I could turn myself around?
If you're interested in physics, it's very important to get calculus
under your belt as soon as possible. Without it, your ability to
learn any physics will be severely limited. Checking out textbooks
from the library can help. It also helps to find or invent problems
you're interested in and work them out mathematically. Good luck!
.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Physics in College? |
03 Jul 2004 12:48:35 PM |
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Stephen Morris wrote:
I'm not sure if this is the place to post this question, but I assume
that there will be a lot of knowledgable parties frequenting this
newsgroup that might have some answers to my questions.
I graduated high school in May, and I'll be attending college in the
fall. I left high school with a bitter taste in my mouth towards math
and science, in part because of a handful of poor teachers and (in
larger part) due to the tendency of high school math and science
classes teaching just what you need to get high marks on standardized
tests.
Now I'm worried, tho, because I feel like I may have squandered an
opportunity here. I've subscribed to magazines like Scientific American
for most of my life, and just recently reread A Brief History of Time
and The Elegant Universe and realized that I actually do love science
(more specifically cosmology.)
If I try to major/minor in a science field, with my limited interested
in math and science in high school (I took the basic Bio/Bio
II/Chemistry, which was all memorization and took math up to
PreCalculus/Trig) will I be completely lost, or is there still a chance
that I could turn myself around?
You'll be fine--if you want to learn science and math in college, you
will.
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: Physics in College? |
03 Jul 2004 01:01:28 PM |
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Stephen Morris wrote:
[snip]
If I try to major/minor in a science field, with my limited interested
in math and science in high school (I took the basic Bio/Bio
II/Chemistry, which was all memorization and took math up to
PreCalculus/Trig) will I be completely lost, or is there still a chance
that I could turn myself around?
If you cannot do calculus through differential equations, you are
limited to descriptive sciences - which polish their apples with
mathematical gobbeledygook like statistics when real information does
not present itself. Heteroskedasticity! Real math goes much
further. If you are short of knowlege, you had better inhabit the
library and get educated - autodidact. If you are short of raw
intelligence, do something else and science as a hobby.
If the population is average 100 IQ, legitimate college entrance is
110 IQ (2/3 sigma above the mean, old SAT 1100). Success in sciences
requires at least 120 IQ; 130 IQ if you are staring down meaningful
PhD work (1 out of 50 people may qualify). Do you have the cerebral
horsepower? If not, do something else for which you are qualified.
The foregoing is not harsh, it is realistic. Desire alone is
insufficient. You will be competing with fully credentialed
confreres. All the piano practice in the world won't make you as good
as an 8-year old child prodigy. There is a remarkable glut of
immensely intelligent and talented folks in every advanced endeavor.
The cerebral horsepower is in there. They fail for want of
creativity, social skills, and luck. Either way, they are ruled by
100-110 IQ management.
BTW, you aren't in college to sit through assigned lectures and take
their tests. Every lecture is open for your butt to plant itself (you
simply don't get credit for the course). The library accepts all
butts, matriculated or not. As long as you are a paying chump working
toward a degree, reserve some time to get an education.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
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| User: "Stephen Morris" |
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| Title: Re: Physics in College? |
03 Jul 2004 03:04:42 PM |
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On 2004-07-03 13:01:28 -0500, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> said:
The foregoing is not harsh, it is realistic. Desire alone is
insufficient. You will be competing with fully credentialed
confreres. All the piano practice in the world won't make you as good
as an 8-year old child prodigy. There is a remarkable glut of
immensely intelligent and talented folks in every advanced endeavor.
The cerebral horsepower is in there. They fail for want of
creativity, social skills, and luck. Either way, they are ruled by
100-110 IQ management.
Well, I haven't taken an official IQ test for a few years, but I was
well above 130 at that point. I still test very well in science and
math, it's just that I have fallen behind because I never really
*loved* or understood science and math the way I did English, music,
and art. It's just now as I read more and more books on cosmology, etc.
that I'm starting to realize that the same things I love about those
translate just as well once you get beyond the basics (which I was
stupid not to realize... It's not as if I expected to start drawing
beautiful works without knowing how to use a pencil, or to write a
novel without knowing where to put a period.)
Thanks for all the answers. I was worried I had missed an opportunity here!
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| User: "Andrew B. Park" |
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| Title: Re: Physics in College? |
04 Jul 2004 03:59:52 AM |
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Well, I haven't taken an official IQ test for a few years, but I was
well above 130 at that point. I still test very well in science and
I wouldn't trust "official IQ test." I went to a Jr. High (and, it
wasn't a magnet school or anything, just to let you know), where 1/3
of the class got I.Q. near or above 130--if it was done correctly,
either the class I was in was a very unrepresentive sample, or they
(the "official IQ test" people) lied.
math, it's just that I have fallen behind because I never really
Also, the standards for science and math in standardized tests are
very, very low. Let's just say, if you didn't get 800 (o.k... maybe
750, if you were too self-confident and made silly mistakes) in the
math portion of SAT I (or SAT II Math IC or IIC--hopefully you knew
enough math to take the latter), well, you've got a lot of work to do.
*loved* or understood science and math the way I did English, music,
and art. It's just now as I read more and more books on cosmology, etc.
that I'm starting to realize that the same things I love about those
translate just as well once you get beyond the basics (which I was
stupid not to realize... It's not as if I expected to start drawing
beautiful works without knowing how to use a pencil, or to write a
novel without knowing where to put a period.)
Thanks for all the answers. I was worried I had missed an opportunity here!
BTW, if you haven't done calculus coming into college, you do have
quite a bit of work to do. Many people intending to major in physics
or engineering are able to skip first two semesters of calculus (that
is, they took AP Calculus BC and got a score of 5 or 4, which is not
hard to do, btw), if not all four (in the case of the school I go to,
that's differentiation through integration, series, multivariable
calculus, some intro to differential equations and linear algebra)
lower division math courses. And, since you can't really understand
physics without knowledge of calculus, from my point of view, you have
two options: i) take the first semester of calculus along with the
first semester of physics course for physics and engineering majors
(some physics department has courses that are best labeled, "Physics
for Dummies," and that's basically an English course for those who
lack enough writing skill... I've seen some people who attended that
class and at the end of the semester didn't understand a single things
about physics or science in general, other than, say, knowing what
"geosynchronous orbit" means). ii) take the two (or one, I guess)
semesters of calculus first and catch up in physics by taking summer
school.
If you like challenge, you'd probably want to do i). That's what I did
anyway...taking upper division physics without having fulfilled all
the pre-reqs (who knew they would be using linear algebra in quantum
mechanics :(). Maybe you will end up learning most of math you know
from a physics course, like me. ;)
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Physics in College? |
04 Jul 2004 04:52:03 AM |
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In article <9bd4e5ee.0407040059.4e75d004@posting.google.com>, (Andrew B. Park) writes:
Well, I haven't taken an official IQ test for a few years, but I was
well above 130 at that point. I still test very well in science and
I wouldn't trust "official IQ test." I went to a Jr. High (and, it
wasn't a magnet school or anything, just to let you know), where 1/3
of the class got I.Q. near or above 130--if it was done correctly,
either the class I was in was a very unrepresentive sample, or they
(the "official IQ test" people) lied.
Well, one thing you don't want when you sell a product, is complaints
from the customers on what they're getting. And I never heard about
anybody complaining "this score cannot be right, it is too high":-)
Mati Meron | "When you argue with a fool,
meron@cars.uchicago.edu | chances are he is doing just the same"
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