| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
19 Oct 2006 04:56:57 PM |
| Object: |
physics programs for kids |
My son of 12 years has had a passion for physics long before he even
knew the word 'physics'. Most of our discussions center around
physics, math, or engineering. As a recent example, he asked my why the
earth precesses, to which I explained that any object with angular
momentum (he knows what this is) will precess in a gravitational field
because of the vector product of the angular momentum with the force of
gravity. (OK, I didn't use those exact words, but the equivalent.) He
then asked if an object in orbit was in a free fall, to which I
replied, yes. He then said, "but according to the general theory of
relativity, an object in free fall is effectively not in a
gravitational field, and therefore this does not explain precession".
(We had read a book a year or so before on the special and general
theories.) I was floored! I started to argue, but he resisted and held
his ground until I realized that he was right and I did not understand
precession. (I quickly looked it up and found a more plausible
explanation for precession.)
Anyway, I am searching for options to foster his love of physics. He is
currently doing a self-paced course in algebra through Stanford,
motivated by the understanding that calculus (and mathematics in
general) is the language of physics, and he wants to be fluent in this
language. We have not been particularly happy with this course, though
it does allow him to move through a whole grade of math in about 2-3
months. They also offer physics when he gets far enough along-not
quite yet-but given the poor teaching of this program, I am trying to
find something else. I did my undergrad and grad work in physics so I
can certainly help, but have long since left it for a more applied
profession in biotechnology.
There is nothing like physics to make this kid's face light up and
sometimes keep him awake until the wee hours of the morning thinking
about some problem. I want to find a way to foster this passion-a
calling, really-but not in a pushy way that will make him loose any
love for this beautiful science. Does anyone know of good programs for
a kid this age? Maybe some ultra-geek (and I use this word with pride)
summer camp, or something along those lines? He is a really sweet and
good-natured kid who has been pushing limits of my understand for years
now-despite all the years of formal study I have in my past-and
nothing would make me happier than to see him expand his experiences in
a healthy and positive way. We live in the San Francisco Bay Area, so
there are a number of good university options.
Thanks for you help!
.
|
|
| User: "Sorcerer" |
|
| Title: Re: physics programs for kids |
19 Oct 2006 06:49:11 PM |
|
|
<norman_conway@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1161295017.908924.105650@f16g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| I did not understand
| precession. (I quickly looked it up and found a more plausible
| explanation for precession.)
|
| Anyway, I am searching for options to foster his love of physics.
Precession:
http://faculty.ifmo.ru/butikov/Projects/Collection1.html (example 5)
Einstein left out Venus, Earth and Jupiter. The rest are too far away
or too small to matter.
http://www.schulphysik.de/physik/perihel/Perihel.htm
If he understands GR at his age he's way ahead of you. I suspect
pride in your offspring rather than honesty on your part.
If you want to foster his love of physics then yes, do math, but
remember math is ART. This is MATH:
http://www.dynamical-systems.org/threebody/index.html
When he can do that he'll be well on his way.
Androcles
.
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|
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| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: physics programs for kids |
19 Oct 2006 07:55:26 PM |
|
|
Sorcerer wrote:
If he understands GR at his age he's way ahead of you. I suspect
pride in your offspring rather than honesty on your part.
He doesn't understand GR but he does get the concept of a reference
frame--both inertial and non-inertial-- as he has spent many a late
night thinking about this. Last year we spent hours arguing that one
could use principles of SR to determine an absolute velocity; an
intellectual journey that allowed him to really understand some very
basic principles of modern physics. Although SR and especially GR are
fully accessible only if one is fluent in the relevant mathematics,
their core premises are really simple to a young, thoughful and
non-prejudiced mind. Now quantum mechanics w/o math is a little
harder...
One of the things that always loved about physics is that one really
does not have to know very much to understand some very basic things
about our world. (I used to joke that I can write down everything I
need to know about physics on one side of an index card; an
exaggeration, I know, but not much of one.)
If you want to foster his love of physics then yes, do math, but
remember math is ART. This is MATH:
http://www.dynamical-systems.org/threebody/index.html
When he can do that he'll be well on his way.
Well, that's a great help: give a 12 year old with a passion for
physics an unsolved problem just to make him understand he's not as
tough as he might think he is.
Any other suggestions?
Androcles
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sorcerer" |
|
| Title: Re: physics programs for kids |
19 Oct 2006 11:09:49 PM |
|
|
<norman_conway@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1161305725.994219.295760@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
|
| Sorcerer wrote:
|
| > If he understands GR at his age he's way ahead of you. I suspect
| > pride in your offspring rather than honesty on your part.
|
| He doesn't understand GR but he does get the concept of a reference
| frame--both inertial and non-inertial-- as he has spent many a late
| night thinking about this. Last year we spent hours arguing that one
| could use principles of SR to determine an absolute velocity; an
| intellectual journey that allowed him to really understand some very
| basic principles of modern physics. Although SR and especially GR are
| fully accessible only if one is fluent in the relevant mathematics,
LOL! Maybe he'll enjoy the pictures:
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Rocket/Rocket.htm
Adults should be weaned off fairy tales or they'll mislead their children.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Smart/Smart.htm
| their core premises are really simple to a young, thoughful and
| non-prejudiced mind.
Be careful not to prejudice it. Let him see both sides of the same
coin and make up his own mind.
| Now quantum mechanics w/o math is a little
| harder...
Not really.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/AC/AC.htm
|
| One of the things that always loved about physics is that one really
| does not have to know very much to understand some very basic things
| about our world. (I used to joke that I can write down everything I
| need to know about physics on one side of an index card; an
| exaggeration, I know, but not much of one.)
That's you, not your son.
|
| > If you want to foster his love of physics then yes, do math, but
| > remember math is ART. This is MATH:
| > http://www.dynamical-systems.org/threebody/index.html
| > When he can do that he'll be well on his way.
|
| Well, that's a great help: give a 12 year old with a passion for
| physics an unsolved problem just to make him understand he's not as
| tough as he might think he is.
|
| Any other suggestions?
Sure. Learn math yourself, without prejudice.
There is a huge difference between understanding how Nature works
and inventing how she works with buzzwords like "inertial frame",
a term Einstein did NOT use.
Seems to me you've spent hours getting him to understand the basic
principles of modern mythology. I went through something like it
when I was 12, my father was a religious zealot, the bloody fool.
The best thing you can teach your son is honesty, not charlatanism.
| > Androcles
|
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "srp" |
|
| Title: Re: physics programs for kids |
19 Oct 2006 09:51:22 PM |
|
|
a écrit :
Sorcerer wrote:
If he understands GR at his age he's way ahead of you. I suspect
pride in your offspring rather than honesty on your part.
He doesn't understand GR but he does get the concept of a reference
frame--both inertial and non-inertial-- as he has spent many a late
night thinking about this. Last year we spent hours arguing that one
could use principles of SR to determine an absolute velocity; an
intellectual journey that allowed him to really understand some very
basic principles of modern physics. Although SR and especially GR are
fully accessible only if one is fluent in the relevant mathematics,
their core premises are really simple to a young, thoughful and
non-prejudiced mind. Now quantum mechanics w/o math is a little
harder...
One of the things that always loved about physics is that one really
does not have to know very much to understand some very basic things
about our world. (I used to joke that I can write down everything I
need to know about physics on one side of an index card; an
exaggeration, I know, but not much of one.)
If you want to foster his love of physics then yes, do math, but
remember math is ART. This is MATH:
http://www.dynamical-systems.org/threebody/index.html
When he can do that he'll be well on his way.
Well, that's a great help: give a 12 year old with a passion for
physics an unsolved problem just to make him understand he's not as
tough as he might think he is.
Any other suggestions?
Einstein's dad gave him a compass for him to wonder at why the
needle always pointed to the north.
Why not give him a pair of circular magnets (loudspeaker magnets)
and let him wonder.
André Michaud
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
|
| Title: Re: physics programs for kids |
19 Oct 2006 11:11:13 PM |
|
|
In sci.physics, srp
<srp2@globetrotter.net>
wrote
on Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:51:22 GMT
<45383987.60302@globetrotter.net>:
norman_conway@yahoo.com a écrit :
Sorcerer wrote:
If he understands GR at his age he's way ahead of you. I suspect
pride in your offspring rather than honesty on your part.
He doesn't understand GR but he does get the concept of a reference
frame--both inertial and non-inertial-- as he has spent many a late
night thinking about this. Last year we spent hours arguing that one
could use principles of SR to determine an absolute velocity; an
intellectual journey that allowed him to really understand some very
basic principles of modern physics. Although SR and especially GR are
fully accessible only if one is fluent in the relevant mathematics,
their core premises are really simple to a young, thoughful and
non-prejudiced mind. Now quantum mechanics w/o math is a little
harder...
One of the things that always loved about physics is that one really
does not have to know very much to understand some very basic things
about our world. (I used to joke that I can write down everything I
need to know about physics on one side of an index card; an
exaggeration, I know, but not much of one.)
If you want to foster his love of physics then yes, do math, but
remember math is ART. This is MATH:
http://www.dynamical-systems.org/threebody/index.html
When he can do that he'll be well on his way.
Well, that's a great help: give a 12 year old with a passion for
physics an unsolved problem just to make him understand he's not as
tough as he might think he is.
Any other suggestions?
Einstein's dad gave him a compass for him to wonder at why the
needle always pointed to the north.
Why not give him a pair of circular magnets (loudspeaker magnets)
and let him wonder.
André Michaud
Einstein was born 1879-03-14. It is highly unlikely
loudspeakers of any sort were in existence back then;
the vacuum tube/thermionic valve kenotron (later known as
the diode) was not invented until 1904, by John Ambrose
Fleming. The triode, a precursor to anything resembling an
electrically-driven or electronic amplifier, was invented
about 2 years later. This is about the same time (1905)
Einstein advanced his theory of Special Relativity, as it
turns out -- well after his formative years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermionic_valves
Circular magnets may have been available prior to then but
they would have been more for electric motors and/or
solenoids.
--
#191,
Linux. Because vaporware only goes so far.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "srp" |
|
| Title: Re: physics programs for kids |
20 Oct 2006 11:47:12 AM |
|
|
The Ghost In The Machine a écrit :
In sci.physics, srp
<srp2@globetrotter.net>
wrote
on Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:51:22 GMT
<45383987.60302@globetrotter.net>:
norman_conway@yahoo.com a écrit :
Sorcerer wrote:
If he understands GR at his age he's way ahead of you. I suspect
pride in your offspring rather than honesty on your part.
He doesn't understand GR but he does get the concept of a reference
frame--both inertial and non-inertial-- as he has spent many a late
night thinking about this. Last year we spent hours arguing that one
could use principles of SR to determine an absolute velocity; an
intellectual journey that allowed him to really understand some very
basic principles of modern physics. Although SR and especially GR are
fully accessible only if one is fluent in the relevant mathematics,
their core premises are really simple to a young, thoughful and
non-prejudiced mind. Now quantum mechanics w/o math is a little
harder...
One of the things that always loved about physics is that one really
does not have to know very much to understand some very basic things
about our world. (I used to joke that I can write down everything I
need to know about physics on one side of an index card; an
exaggeration, I know, but not much of one.)
If you want to foster his love of physics then yes, do math, but
remember math is ART. This is MATH:
http://www.dynamical-systems.org/threebody/index.html
When he can do that he'll be well on his way.
Well, that's a great help: give a 12 year old with a passion for
physics an unsolved problem just to make him understand he's not as
tough as he might think he is.
Any other suggestions?
Einstein's dad gave him a compass for him to wonder at why the
needle always pointed to the north.
Why not give him a pair of circular magnets (loudspeaker magnets)
and let him wonder.
André Michaud
Einstein was born 1879-03-14. It is highly unlikely
loudspeakers of any sort were in existence back then;
the vacuum tube/thermionic valve kenotron (later known as
the diode) was not invented until 1904, by John Ambrose
Fleming. The triode, a precursor to anything resembling an
electrically-driven or electronic amplifier, was invented
about 2 years later. This is about the same time (1905)
Einstein advanced his theory of Special Relativity, as it
turns out -- well after his formative years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermionic_valves
Circular magnets may have been available prior to then but
they would have been more for electric motors and/or
solenoids.
What are you talking about!
Circular magnets exist "now". The OP was asking for other
suggestions and he obviously is entirely capable of
deciding whether or not he thinks the idea has merit.
André Michaud
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
|
| Title: Re: physics programs for kids |
20 Oct 2006 11:16:23 PM |
|
|
In sci.physics, srp
<srp2@globetrotter.net>
wrote
on Fri, 20 Oct 2006 16:47:12 GMT
<4538FE79.7020502@globetrotter.net>:
The Ghost In The Machine a écrit :
In sci.physics, srp
<srp2@globetrotter.net>
wrote
on Fri, 20 Oct 2006 02:51:22 GMT
<45383987.60302@globetrotter.net>:
norman_conway@yahoo.com a écrit :
Sorcerer wrote:
If he understands GR at his age he's way ahead of you. I suspect
pride in your offspring rather than honesty on your part.
He doesn't understand GR but he does get the concept of a reference
frame--both inertial and non-inertial-- as he has spent many a late
night thinking about this. Last year we spent hours arguing that one
could use principles of SR to determine an absolute velocity; an
intellectual journey that allowed him to really understand some very
basic principles of modern physics. Although SR and especially GR are
fully accessible only if one is fluent in the relevant mathematics,
their core premises are really simple to a young, thoughful and
non-prejudiced mind. Now quantum mechanics w/o math is a little
harder...
One of the things that always loved about physics is that one really
does not have to know very much to understand some very basic things
about our world. (I used to joke that I can write down everything I
need to know about physics on one side of an index card; an
exaggeration, I know, but not much of one.)
If you want to foster his love of physics then yes, do math, but
remember math is ART. This is MATH:
http://www.dynamical-systems.org/threebody/index.html
When he can do that he'll be well on his way.
Well, that's a great help: give a 12 year old with a passion for
physics an unsolved problem just to make him understand he's not as
tough as he might think he is.
Any other suggestions?
Einstein's dad gave him a compass for him to wonder at why the
needle always pointed to the north.
Why not give him a pair of circular magnets (loudspeaker magnets)
and let him wonder.
André Michaud
Einstein was born 1879-03-14. It is highly unlikely
loudspeakers of any sort were in existence back then;
the vacuum tube/thermionic valve kenotron (later known as
the diode) was not invented until 1904, by John Ambrose
Fleming. The triode, a precursor to anything resembling an
electrically-driven or electronic amplifier, was invented
about 2 years later. This is about the same time (1905)
Einstein advanced his theory of Special Relativity, as it
turns out -- well after his formative years.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Einstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermionic_valves
Circular magnets may have been available prior to then but
they would have been more for electric motors and/or
solenoids.
What are you talking about!
Circular magnets exist "now". The OP was asking for other
suggestions and he obviously is entirely capable of
deciding whether or not he thinks the idea has merit.
André Michaud
Ah...a misread on my part; my apologies as I thought the
poster was referring to Einstein, not a contemporary child.
In any event, I'd suggest a toy with a dowel and several
magnets with holes in them; if I'm not totally mistaken
these are available at many science shops. There are
issues if he's younger than three, as he might ingest the
magnets; while not all that dangerous (unless one's dumb
enough to buy rare earth magnets for such a child which
attract so strongly they might break or crush fingers)
it might be uncomfortable.
There might be a toy consisting of a bunch of iron filings
in a flat sealed plastic container as well, though I'm
not sure how long that will hold a child's curiosity.
There are a few toys which consist of a platform
and several magnets on a pivot; these might be mildly
entertaining but the effect is more reminiscent of artwork
than something the child can really interact with ("get
his or her hands on", so to speak).
It is sad, though. Back in the start of the 20th century
one might have had wooden toy train sets. Today we have
Transformers, "less than meets the eye", as they not only
flip and click into preset configurations they also come
with a lot of backstory, sapping imagination in my opinion.
But apparently they do sell.
--
#191,
Is it cheaper to learn Linux, or to hire someone
to fix your Windows problems?
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
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