Science > Physics > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Thomas Lee Elifritz" |
| Date: |
24 Aug 2006 11:16:12 PM |
| Object: |
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
http://cosmic.lifeform.org/?p=170
I will never surrender.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
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| User: "William Elliot" |
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| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 12:27:25 AM |
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On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
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| User: "Alex Terrell" |
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| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 02:41:44 AM |
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William Elliot wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
Apart from Earth - Moon
.
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| User: "Sorcerer" |
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| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 04:35:25 AM |
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"Alex Terrell" <alexterrell@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1156491704.646391.151740@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
|
| William Elliot wrote:
| > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| >
| > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > >
| > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
|
| Apart from Earth - Moon
Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
Androcles
.
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| User: "beav" |
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| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:23:48 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:35:25 GMT, "Sorcerer"
<Headmaster@hogwarts.physics_a> wrote:
"Alex Terrell" <alexterrell@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1156491704.646391.151740@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
|
| William Elliot wrote:
| > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| >
| > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > >
| > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
|
| Apart from Earth - Moon
Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
consideration of a barycenter is no longer part of the definition
Androcles
.
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| User: "Sorcerer" |
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| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:52:40 AM |
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"beav" <BEAVITH1@NETSCAPE.NET> wrote in message
news:vu8ue25hh9kd5p6cbvsk0ni9ime75lelqa@4ax.com...
| On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:35:25 GMT, "Sorcerer"
| <Headmaster@hogwarts.physics_a> wrote:
|
| >
| >"Alex Terrell" <alexterrell@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| >news:1156491704.646391.151740@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
| >|
| >| William Elliot wrote:
| >| > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| >| >
| >| > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| >| > >
| >| > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
| >|
| >| Apart from Earth - Moon
| >
| >Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
| >Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
|
|
| consideration of a barycenter is no longer part of the definition
Correct, Pluto is just another a comet without a highly eccentric orbit.
| >Androcles
| >
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| User: "Thomas Lee Elifritz" |
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| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:27:37 AM |
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beav wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:35:25 GMT, "Sorcerer"
<Headmaster@hogwarts.physics_a> wrote:
"Alex Terrell" <alexterrell@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1156491704.646391.151740@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com...
|
| William Elliot wrote:
| > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| >
| > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > >
| > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
|
| Apart from Earth - Moon
Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
consideration of a barycenter is no longer part of the definition
Yes, they've taken two fairly well characterized quantifiable physical
phenomena, gravitational relaxation, barycenter location and dynamics,
and replaced it with almost purely subjective criteria, lane clearing.
That lane clearing thing is going to work well with extra solar systems.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
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| User: "William Elliot" |
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| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 04:57:18 AM |
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On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
| William Elliot wrote:
| > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| >
| > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > >
| > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
|
| Apart from Earth - Moon
Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
Thus double planet.
Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
Thus planet and satellite.
.
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| User: "Eric Chomko" |
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| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:41:12 AM |
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|
William Elliot wrote:
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
| William Elliot wrote:
| > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| >
| > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > >
| > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
|
| Apart from Earth - Moon
Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
Thus double planet.
Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
Thus planet and satellite.
I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter of the sun
and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
.
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| User: "Sorcerer" |
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| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:55:34 AM |
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|
"Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1156524071.960852.186330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
|
| William Elliot wrote:
| > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
| > > | William Elliot wrote:
| > > | > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| > > | >
| > > | > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > > | > >
| > > | > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
| > > |
| > > | Apart from Earth - Moon
| > >
| > > Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
| >
| > Thus double planet.
| >
| > > Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
| > >
| > Thus planet and satellite.
|
| I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter of the sun
| and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
are moons of the sun.
This is impossible :
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/AlgolOrbit.gif
How much more massive would Jupiter have
to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
Androcles
.
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| User: "Eric Chomko" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 01:21:54 PM |
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|
Sorcerer wrote:
"Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1156524071.960852.186330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
|
| William Elliot wrote:
| > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
| > > | William Elliot wrote:
| > > | > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| > > | >
| > > | > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > > | > >
| > > | > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
| > > |
| > > | Apart from Earth - Moon
| > >
| > > Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
| >
| > Thus double planet.
| >
| > > Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
| > >
| > Thus planet and satellite.
|
| I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter of the sun
| and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
are moons of the sun.
This is impossible :
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/AlgolOrbit.gif
That looks more like what Pluto and Charon are doing. The sun makes a
small cricle every 12 years. A very small circle.
How much more massive would Jupiter have
to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
According to this website 60 times its current mass:
http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81 of
the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of looking at
it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth would be
a star.
Eric
Androcles
.
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| User: "Sorcerer" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 02:01:33 PM |
|
|
"Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1156530114.814709.298510@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
|
| Sorcerer wrote:
| > "Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > news:1156524071.960852.186330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
| > |
| > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
| > | > > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > > | > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| > | > > | >
| > | > > | > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > | > > | > >
| > | > > | > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the
galaxy.
| > | > > |
| > | > > | Apart from Earth - Moon
| > | > >
| > | > > Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
| > | >
| > | > Thus double planet.
| > | >
| > | > > Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
| > | > >
| > | > Thus planet and satellite.
| > |
| > | I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter of the
sun
| > | and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
| >
| > So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
| > are moons of the sun.
| >
| > This is impossible :
| > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/AlgolOrbit.gif
|
| That looks more like what Pluto and Charon are doing. The sun makes a
| small cricle every 12 years. A very small circle.
Exactly right. But if it were taking 70 hours per circle Jupiter would be
mighty close to the sun and the sun would still have to move in a circle...
but then Jupiter would not be a gas giant, it would boil away and its
gravity would not be enough to hold it together.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html
| >
| > How much more massive would Jupiter have
| > to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
| > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
|
| According to this website 60 times its current mass:
| http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
|
| That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81 of
| the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of looking at
| it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth would be
| a star.
Yes indeed. And the moon takes 28 days to orbit the Earth, not 3 days.
If it were the tides would be enormous, swamping entire continents.
So... is Algol a binary?
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
Androcles
|
.
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| User: "Eric Chomko" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 02:30:10 PM |
|
|
Sorcerer wrote:
"Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1156530114.814709.298510@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
|
| Sorcerer wrote:
| > "Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > news:1156524071.960852.186330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
| > |
| > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
| > | > > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > > | > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| > | > > | >
| > | > > | > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > | > > | > >
| > | > > | > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the
galaxy.
| > | > > |
| > | > > | Apart from Earth - Moon
| > | > >
| > | > > Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
| > | >
| > | > Thus double planet.
| > | >
| > | > > Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
| > | > >
| > | > Thus planet and satellite.
| > |
| > | I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter of the
sun
| > | and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
| >
| > So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
| > are moons of the sun.
| >
| > This is impossible :
| > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/AlgolOrbit.gif
|
| That looks more like what Pluto and Charon are doing. The sun makes a
| small cricle every 12 years. A very small circle.
Exactly right. But if it were taking 70 hours per circle Jupiter would be
mighty close to the sun and the sun would still have to move in a circle...
but then Jupiter would not be a gas giant, it would boil away and its
gravity would not be enough to hold it together.
Hard to say exactly. At 70 hours one of those solar flairs could do
lots of damage.
Even Mercury at 88 days takes a beating from the sun. I don't doubt
that binary or multiple star systems of several stars have proximity
limits in order to stay whole and still cohabitate. I'm sure well over
half of all stellar systems consist of more than one star.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html
| >
| > How much more massive would Jupiter have
| > to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
| > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
|
| According to this website 60 times its current mass:
| http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
|
| That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81 of
| the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of looking at
| it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth would be
| a star.
Yes indeed. And the moon takes 28 days to orbit the Earth, not 3 days.
If it were the tides would be enormous, swamping entire continents.
So... is Algol a binary?
Only after you compile it. (Sorry, computer programming joke as Algol
is also a computer language).
Not only a binary but an eclipsing binary which means that its
magnitude changes depending the motion of smaller component. See:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algol
Eric
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
Androcles
|
.
|
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|
| User: "Sorcerer" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 03:22:08 PM |
|
|
"Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1156534210.382300.191770@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
|
| Sorcerer wrote:
| > "Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > news:1156530114.814709.298510@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
| > |
| > | Sorcerer wrote:
| > | > "Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > | > news:1156524071.960852.186330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
| > | > |
| > | > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > | > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
| > | > | > > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > | > > | > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| > | > | > > | >
| > | > | > > | > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > | > | > > | > >
| > | > | > > | > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the
| > galaxy.
| > | > | > > |
| > | > | > > | Apart from Earth - Moon
| > | > | > >
| > | > | > > Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Thus double planet.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > > Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
| > | > | > >
| > | > | > Thus planet and satellite.
| > | > |
| > | > | I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter of
the
| > sun
| > | > | and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
| > | >
| > | > So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
| > | > are moons of the sun.
| > | >
| > | > This is impossible :
| > | > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/AlgolOrbit.gif
| > |
| > | That looks more like what Pluto and Charon are doing. The sun makes a
| > | small cricle every 12 years. A very small circle.
| >
| > Exactly right. But if it were taking 70 hours per circle Jupiter would
be
| > mighty close to the sun and the sun would still have to move in a
circle...
| > but then Jupiter would not be a gas giant, it would boil away and its
| > gravity would not be enough to hold it together.
|
| Hard to say exactly. At 70 hours one of those solar flairs could do
| lots of damage.
Why is that hard to say? You've just said it.
| Even Mercury at 88 days takes a beating from the sun.
You bet it does.
| I don't doubt
| that binary or multiple star systems of several stars have proximity
| limits in order to stay whole and still cohabitate. I'm sure well over
| half of all stellar systems consist of more than one star.
I doubt it strongly. Do you have any EVIDENCE to support your certainty?
Or just the conjecture of an 18-year-old kid in 1782 who was dead at
the age of 22?
When one sheep bleats "baa" the rest soon follow, don't they?
|
| > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html
| >
| >
| > | >
| > | > How much more massive would Jupiter have
| > | > to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
| > | > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
| > |
| > | According to this website 60 times its current mass:
| > | http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
| > |
| > | That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81 of
| > | the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of looking at
| > | it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth would
be
| > | a star.
| >
| > Yes indeed. And the moon takes 28 days to orbit the Earth, not 3 days.
| > If it were the tides would be enormous, swamping entire continents.
| >
| > So... is Algol a binary?
|
| Only after you compile it. (Sorry, computer programming joke as Algol
| is also a computer language).
|
| Not only a binary but an eclipsing binary which means that its
| magnitude changes depending the motion of smaller component. See:
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algol
Indeed it is, but are you a sheep or a scientist?
Tell me, what is the purpose of a newsgroup if all the sheep bleat
the same sound? Just to make silly jokes?
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
What are you scared of, ridicule by sheep?
Androcles
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dirk Van de moortel" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 03:36:58 PM |
|
|
"Sorcerer" <Headmaster@hogwarts.physics_a> wrote in message news:QZIHg.168423$9d4.158649@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
"Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1156534210.382300.191770@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
| Not only a binary but an eclipsing binary which means that its
| magnitude changes depending the motion of smaller component. See:
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algol
Indeed it is, but are you a sheep or a scientist?
Tell me, what is the purpose of a newsgroup if all the sheep bleat
the same sound? Just to make silly jokes?
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
What are you scared of, ridicule by sheep?
Now now, Loa Loa, is that a way to talk to people?
What happened to your usual style?
http://users.telenet.be/vdmoortel/dirk/Physics/Fumbles/Androrgasm.html
Dirk Vdm
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sorcerer" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 04:15:54 PM |
|
|
"Dirk Van de moortel" <dirkvandemoortel@ThankS-NO-SperM.hotmail.com> wrote
in message news:KbJHg.40938$uh7.571508@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
|
| "Sorcerer" <Headmaster@hogwarts.physics_a> wrote in message
news:QZIHg.168423$9d4.158649@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
| >
| > "Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > news:1156534210.382300.191770@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
|
| [snip]
xi, x'.
What's the difference, Dork the dork?
Androcles
.
|
|
|
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|
| User: "Eric Chomko" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 07:37:26 PM |
|
|
Sorcerer wrote:
"Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1156534210.382300.191770@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
|
| Sorcerer wrote:
| > "Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > news:1156530114.814709.298510@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
| > |
| > | Sorcerer wrote:
| > | > "Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > | > news:1156524071.960852.186330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
| > | > |
| > | > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > | > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
| > | > | > > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > | > > | > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| > | > | > > | >
| > | > | > > | > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > | > | > > | > >
| > | > | > > | > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the
| > galaxy.
| > | > | > > |
| > | > | > > | Apart from Earth - Moon
| > | > | > >
| > | > | > > Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
| > | > | >
| > | > | > Thus double planet.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > > Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
| > | > | > >
| > | > | > Thus planet and satellite.
| > | > |
| > | > | I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter of
the
| > sun
| > | > | and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
| > | >
| > | > So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
| > | > are moons of the sun.
| > | >
| > | > This is impossible :
| > | > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/AlgolOrbit.gif
| > |
| > | That looks more like what Pluto and Charon are doing. The sun makes a
| > | small cricle every 12 years. A very small circle.
| >
| > Exactly right. But if it were taking 70 hours per circle Jupiter would
be
| > mighty close to the sun and the sun would still have to move in a
circle...
| > but then Jupiter would not be a gas giant, it would boil away and its
| > gravity would not be enough to hold it together.
|
| Hard to say exactly. At 70 hours one of those solar flairs could do
| lots of damage.
Why is that hard to say? You've just said it.
The hard part is having an object orbit the sun in a 70 hour period.
There may actually be a minimum distance and therefore period which an
object must be beyond 70 hours to not get suck into the sun. Get it
now?
| Even Mercury at 88 days takes a beating from the sun.
You bet it does.
| I don't doubt
| that binary or multiple star systems of several stars have proximity
| limits in order to stay whole and still cohabitate. I'm sure well over
| half of all stellar systems consist of more than one star.
I doubt it strongly. Do you have any EVIDENCE to support your certainty?
This link says 90% of all star systems are more than one according to
this link:
http://alumni.imsa.edu/~anneka/binaries/formation.html
Or just the conjecture of an 18-year-old kid in 1782 who was dead at
the age of 22?
When one sheep bleats "baa" the rest soon follow, don't they?
I once saw a reference from Asimov, I think, that it was more like 60%,
but I don't have it handy.
|
| > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html
| >
| >
| > | >
| > | > How much more massive would Jupiter have
| > | > to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
| > | > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
| > |
| > | According to this website 60 times its current mass:
| > | http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
| > |
| > | That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81 of
| > | the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of looking at
| > | it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth would
be
| > | a star.
| >
| > Yes indeed. And the moon takes 28 days to orbit the Earth, not 3 days.
| > If it were the tides would be enormous, swamping entire continents.
| >
| > So... is Algol a binary?
|
| Only after you compile it. (Sorry, computer programming joke as Algol
| is also a computer language).
|
| Not only a binary but an eclipsing binary which means that its
| magnitude changes depending the motion of smaller component. See:
| http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algol
Indeed it is, but are you a sheep or a scientist?
A student of science, so more like a scientist than a sheep.
Tell me, what is the purpose of a newsgroup if all the sheep bleat
the same sound? Just to make silly jokes?
Hopefully, we share things to the point of actal learning. This thread
has been good beause it contains some pretty good reference links.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
What are you scared of, ridicule by sheep?
No.
Eric
Androcles
.
|
|
|
| User: "Sorcerer" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 08:53:44 PM |
|
|
"Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:1156552646.384911.272560@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
|
| Sorcerer wrote:
| > "Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > news:1156534210.382300.191770@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
| > |
| > | Sorcerer wrote:
| > | > "Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > | > news:1156530114.814709.298510@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
| > | > |
| > | > | Sorcerer wrote:
| > | > | > "Eric Chomko" <pne.chomko@verizon.net> wrote in message
| > | > | > news:1156524071.960852.186330@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > | > | > On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Sorcerer wrote:
| > | > | > | > > | William Elliot wrote:
| > | > | > | > > | > On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
| > | > | > | > > | >
| > | > | > | > > | > > Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
| > | > | > | > > | > >
| > | > | > | > > | > Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in
the
| > | > galaxy.
| > | > | > | > > |
| > | > | > | > > | Apart from Earth - Moon
| > | > | > | > >
| > | > | > | > > Barycentre Pluto-Charon above surface
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > Thus double planet.
| > | > | > | >
| > | > | > | > > Barycentre Earth-Moon below surface
| > | > | > | > >
| > | > | > | > Thus planet and satellite.
| > | > | > |
| > | > | > | I agree with what you are saying but, what of the barycenter
of
| > the
| > | > sun
| > | > | > | and Jupiter? It is above the surface of the Sun.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
| > | > | > are moons of the sun.
| > | > | >
| > | > | > This is impossible :
| > | > | >
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/AlgolOrbit.gif
| > | > |
| > | > | That looks more like what Pluto and Charon are doing. The sun
makes a
| > | > | small cricle every 12 years. A very small circle.
| > | >
| > | > Exactly right. But if it were taking 70 hours per circle Jupiter
would
| > be
| > | > mighty close to the sun and the sun would still have to move in a
| > circle...
| > | > but then Jupiter would not be a gas giant, it would boil away and
its
| > | > gravity would not be enough to hold it together.
| > |
| > | Hard to say exactly. At 70 hours one of those solar flairs could do
| > | lots of damage.
| >
| > Why is that hard to say? You've just said it.
|
| The hard part is having an object orbit the sun in a 70 hour period.
| There may actually be a minimum distance and therefore period which an
| object must be beyond 70 hours to not get suck into the sun. Get it
| now?
Get what? I can't change empirical data. You are stuck with 70 hours
periodicity no matter what you say.
Variable Stars The prototypical example is Algol (or Beta.Perseus) with a
period of 2.87 days.
Constellation Perseus Double star gamma Per, epsilon Per, zeta Per, eta Per,
tau Per; Occulting variable star beta Per (period: 2,87 days);
http://www.citebase.org/abstract?id=oai%3AarXiv.org%3Aastro-ph%2F9907331
| > | Even Mercury at 88 days takes a beating from the sun.
| >
| > You bet it does.
| >
| > | I don't doubt
| > | that binary or multiple star systems of several stars have proximity
| > | limits in order to stay whole and still cohabitate. I'm sure well over
| > | half of all stellar systems consist of more than one star.
| >
| > I doubt it strongly. Do you have any EVIDENCE to support your certainty?
|
| This link says 90% of all star systems are more than one according to
| this link:
| http://alumni.imsa.edu/~anneka/binaries/formation.html
| > Or just the conjecture of an 18-year-old kid in 1782 who was dead at
| > the age of 22?
| > When one sheep bleats "baa" the rest soon follow, don't they?
|
| I once saw a reference from Asimov, I think, that it was more like 60%,
| but I don't have it handy.
Sirius is a binary, period 50 years. That's reasonable.
As you say,
"The hard part is having an object orbit the sun in a 70 hour period."
Algol has period of 2.87 days (68.88 hours), I've seen it myself.
Anyone can look up, although estimating magnitude takes practice.
Maybe it's a beat frequency. I'm open to suggestion if you can
show some math and be plausible.
|
| > |
| > | > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > | >
| > | > | > How much more massive would Jupiter have
| > | > | > to be to light up its own fuel like Sirius B?
| > | > | > http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap001006.html
| > | > |
| > | > | According to this website 60 times its current mass:
| > | > | http://starryskies.com/articles/dln/1-02/jupiter.star.html
| > | > |
| > | > | That seems like a lot but when one considers that the moon is 1/81
of
| > | > | the earth's mass, it doesn't seem that much. Another way of
looking at
| > | > | it is that if the moon was the size of Jupiter, then the earth
would
| > be
| > | > | a star.
| > | >
| > | > Yes indeed. And the moon takes 28 days to orbit the Earth, not 3
days.
| > | > If it were the tides would be enormous, swamping entire continents.
| > | >
| > | > So... is Algol a binary?
| > |
| > | Only after you compile it. (Sorry, computer programming joke as Algol
| > | is also a computer language).
| > |
| > | Not only a binary but an eclipsing binary which means that its
| > | magnitude changes depending the motion of smaller component. See:
| > | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algol
| >
| >
| > Indeed it is, but are you a sheep or a scientist?
|
| A student of science, so more like a scientist than a sheep.
Ok, then let's get serious. Why does light from Algol vary every
70 hours?
a) Don't know <shrug>
b) It is eclipsed by a dark companion, Goodricke said so
and all the sheep bleat the same tune.
c) Other.
|
| > Tell me, what is the purpose of a newsgroup if all the sheep bleat
| > the same sound? Just to make silly jokes?
|
| Hopefully, we share things to the point of actal learning. This thread
| has been good beause it contains some pretty good reference links.
Ok, let's do it.
| > http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Algol/Algol.htm
| >
| > What are you scared of, ridicule by sheep?
|
| No.
Then look out, because the sheep want you hear you say "baa" as
they do if you discuss science with me.
I'm despised, I refuse to say "baa". I want to find about Nature,
not learn what I'm told to learn.
Talking about it generates ideas to be tried and rejected, but
hopefully with intelligence we could come up with a viable solution.
I don't really give a hoot whether anyone calls Pluto a planet or an
icecube, that's not science, that's political correctness.
Algol has a period of 70 hours, I say it has a planet with an
orbital period of 70 hours that is further away than any gigantic
"eclipsing companion", the star moves around a barycentre in
that time and the velocity of light is very much dependent on
the motion of the source because that is the only plausible
explanation.
Now it is up to you to raise objection, but we cannot argue
the 70 hours.
My reasons got deeper, actually. There are dwarf cepheids,
cepheids, recurrent novae and flare stars to consider, as
well as Georges Sagnac's interferometer.
http://www.androcles01.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/Sagnac/Sagnac.htm
Androcles
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Ben Newsam" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:59:11 AM |
|
|
Sorcerer wrote:
So Jupiter and the Sun form a binary system, all other planets
are moons of the sun.
"Cats is Dogs, and Rabbits is Dogs, and so's Parrots; but this 'ere
Tortoise is an Insect, so there ain't no charge for it!"
--
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Eric Chomko" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:31:32 AM |
|
|
Alex Terrell wrote:
William Elliot wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
Apart from Earth - Moon
Charon is much more like Pluto, than our moon is like the earth.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thomas Lee Elifritz" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:40:47 AM |
|
|
Eric Chomko wrote:
Alex Terrell wrote:
William Elliot wrote:
On Thu, 24 Aug 2006, Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
Don't knock it. It's the only double planet known in the galaxy.
Apart from Earth - Moon
Charon is much more like Pluto, than our moon is like the earth.
According to latest theories they took quite a hit. I'm thinking both of
them are going to looked fairly morphed over when we finally get a look.
After all, they are both roughly spherical, thus planetary.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Claude" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:43:59 AM |
|
|
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
http://cosmic.lifeform.org/?p=170
I will never surrender.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
It's just a frozen rock, no big deal. In other words you never fix
mistakes. That's why the world is fucked up.
--
Linux is just a fancy name for Windows blocker.
Claude Hopper
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rich" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
24 Aug 2006 11:36:01 PM |
|
|
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
http://cosmic.lifeform.org/?p=170
I will never surrender.
Earth warming crack pot! If you like Pluto so much, go LIVE on that
-273K dirty snowball.
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:09:18 AM |
|
|
Rich wrote:
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
http://cosmic.lifeform.org/?p=170
I will never surrender.
Earth warming crack pot! If you like Pluto so much, go LIVE on that
-273K dirty snowball.
If climate scientists don't better police their discipline, could
climatology get formally categorized as a "dwarf science"?
Best wishes,
Steve Schulin
http://www.nuclear.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Retief" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
25 Aug 2006 11:26:24 PM |
|
|
On 25 Aug 2006 09:09:18 -0700, wrote:
Rich wrote:
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
Earth warming crack pot! If you like Pluto so much, go LIVE on that
-273K dirty snowball.
Well, there's nothing wrong with Pluto. And (the non-planet) Neptune
has not yet cleared Pluto from its orbit... ;)
If climate scientists don't better police their discipline, could
climatology get formally categorized as a "dwarf science"?
You make the assumtion that Elifritz qualifiies as a climate
scientist... Do a Google search and he appears as an irrational wacko
-- he apparently can't defend his asserted "science" from a scientific
standpoint...
Retief
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thomas Lee Elifritz" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
26 Aug 2006 10:10:07 AM |
|
|
Retief wrote:
On 25 Aug 2006 09:09:18 -0700, wrote:
Rich wrote:
Thomas Lee Elifritz wrote:
Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun
Earth warming crack pot! If you like Pluto so much, go LIVE on that
-273K dirty snowball.
Well, there's nothing wrong with Pluto. And (the non-planet) Neptune
has not yet cleared Pluto from its orbit... ;)
If climate scientists don't better police their discipline, could
climatology get formally categorized as a "dwarf science"?
You make the assumtion that Elifritz qualifiies as a climate
scientist... Do a Google search and he appears as an irrational wacko
-- he apparently can't defend his asserted "science" from a scientific
standpoint...
Actually, I have a website and a couple of BLOBS, where anybody who
happens to be an astute observer, can visit and quickly formulate their
own opinions, rather than listening to your crackpot ideas on reality.
http://www.lifeform.org/
Mirrors :
http://webpages.charter.net/tsiolkovsky/
http://webpages.charter.net/cosmic/
External Links :
http://www.lifeform.net/
http://elifritz.members.atlantic.net/
Planetary BLOBS :
http://cosmic.lifeform.org/
http://cosmic.lifeform.net/
Thanks for searching!
.
|
|
|
| User: "Retief" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
26 Aug 2006 03:15:40 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:10:07 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
<cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
You make the assumtion that Elifritz qualifiies as a climate
scientist... Do a Google search and he appears as an irrational wacko
-- he apparently can't defend his asserted "science" from a scientific
standpoint...
Actually, I have a website and a couple of BLOBS, where anybody who
happens to be an astute observer, can visit and quickly formulate their
own opinions, rather than listening to your crackpot ideas on reality.
What? Rational "scientific" statements from Elifritz like this:
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/moveabletype/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=746
"Hurricanes and Global Warming : It's about time that people see
Pielke, Gray, Landsea and Mayfield for what they truly are -
obsolete liars."
Posted by Thomas Lee Elifritz at March 17, 2006 12:02 PM
"Thomas Lee Elifritz-
We welcome all sorts of substantive discussions on this site. If
you have something of substance to say, then let us know. Please
do however take the nasty comments elsewhere.
Thanks!"
Posted by Roger Pielke Jr. at March 17, 2006 09:15 PM
Retief
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
26 Aug 2006 03:29:01 PM |
|
|
Retief wrote:
On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:10:07 -0500, Thomas Lee Elifritz
<cosmic@lifeform.org> wrote:
You make the assumtion that Elifritz qualifiies as a climate
scientist... Do a Google search and he appears as an irrational wacko
-- he apparently can't defend his asserted "science" from a scientific
standpoint...
Actually, I have a website and a couple of BLOBS, where anybody who
happens to be an astute observer, can visit and quickly formulate their
own opinions, rather than listening to your crackpot ideas on reality.
What? Rational "scientific" statements from Elifritz like this:
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/moveabletype/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=746
"Hurricanes and Global Warming : It's about time that people see
Pielke, Gray, Landsea and Mayfield for what they truly are -
obsolete liars."
Posted by Thomas Lee Elifritz at March 17, 2006 12:02 PM
So why do these individuals continue to lie, after they have been
clearly demonstrated to be liars? Inquiring minds want to know.
http://cosmic.lifeform.org
.
|
|
|
| User: "Retief" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
27 Aug 2006 12:18:00 PM |
|
|
On 26 Aug 2006 13:29:01 -0700, (AKA Tommy Lee
Elifritz) wrote:
What? Rational "scientific" statements from Elifritz like this:
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/moveabletype/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=746
"Hurricanes and Global Warming : It's about time that people see
Pielke, Gray, Landsea and Mayfield for what they truly are -
obsolete liars."
Posted by Thomas Lee Elifritz at March 17, 2006 12:02 PM
Tommy Lee thinks that this is what passes for scientific discourse?
So why do these individuals continue to lie, after they have been
clearly demonstrated to be liars? Inquiring minds want to know.
Tommy Lee thinks that an accusation by Tommy Lee constitutes "proof"?
Maybe Tommy Lee should publish his results, showing that these
individual are in error. But nay, Tommy Lee would rather flame and
insult them from an obscure newsgroup, where he won't risk retribution
in the scientific journals...
Retief
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Director" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
27 Aug 2006 12:23:08 PM |
|
|
Retief wrote:
On 26 Aug 2006 13:29:01 -0700, (AKA Tommy Lee
Elifritz) wrote:
What? Rational "scientific" statements from Elifritz like this:
http://sciencepolicy.colorado.edu/moveabletype/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=746
"Hurricanes and Global Warming : It's about time that people see
Pielke, Gray, Landsea and Mayfield for what they truly are -
obsolete liars."
Posted by Thomas Lee Elifritz at March 17, 2006 12:02 PM
Tommy Lee thinks that this is what passes for scientific discourse?
There isn't any more credible dissenting discourse on global warming
enhancement of hurricanes, it's a fundamental thermodynamic result. Max
Mayfield has resigned. He knows he is henceforth no longer able to lie
at the highest levels of government about global warming enhancement of
hurricane intensity. All of these individuals have disgraced science.
They get what they deserve. It should be far worse than a cushy
retirement package, but at least these lesser individuals are not in
positions of power, merely in positions of disinformation. I'm going
after the larger fish in the sea, George W. Bush, ***** Cheney, and his
cronies, and Conrad Lautenberg and Michael Griffin, and their
subordinates. It's going to be very hard for these individuals to cope
with an loud, opinionated and very vocal and ornery scientist with a
major scientific result under his belt :
http://www.lifeform.org/bion.htm
Let me explain it to you, crackpot, you ain't seen nothing yet.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rand Simberg" |
|
| Title: Re: Pluto - The Tenth Planet From A Star Called The Sun |
27 Aug 2006 12:36:07 PM |
|
|
On 27 Aug 2006 10:23:08 -0700, in a place far, far away, "The
Director" <pdf@charter.net> made the phosphor on my monitor glow in
such a way as to indicate that:
"Hurricanes and Global Warming : It's about time that people see
Pielke, Gray, Landsea and Mayfield for what they truly are -
obsolete liars."
Posted by Thomas Lee Elifritz at March 17, 2006 12:02 PM
Tommy Lee thinks that this is what passes for scientific discourse?
There isn't any more credible dissenting discourse on global warming
enhancement of hurricanes, it's a fundamental thermodynamic result. Max
Mayfield has resigned. He knows he is henceforth no longer able to lie
at the highest levels of government about global warming enhancement of
hurricane intensity.
<rest of insanity snipped>
I see that Elifritz has changed his address to escape the killfiles.
Or set up a sock puppet.
In you go. Stop squirming.
*plonk*
.
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