On Sep 21, 6:40 am, boson boss <junker...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sep 20, 6:48 pm, Kowstue <kows...@yahoo.com> wrote:

We know brains produce mind and consciousness. So what's
the big deal?

In the future. An AI machine may ask:

"We know machines produce mind and consciousness. So
what's the big deal"?

Well. Humans create machines to simulate mind. What if
something else created humans to simulate mind?? That is.
The constants of nature of physics could be fine tuned so that
the universe can be this way and humans can exist that can think!

This keeps inpinging on my mind lately.

It's logical isn't it? Humans are quantum nanotech simulations
designed by something else so that we can end up thinking.
Therefore there is a higher mind than our mind that conspire
to create us (or design nature such that we can evolve from
single cells to fully developed sentient beings).

The bottomline is that with our fully developed mind. It can
produce an emergence mind that can interact with higher
mind (independent of matter). That is. Our mind may
collectively form special wave function signature that
is keyed to interact with similar class of special
wave function (mind interacting with higher mind).

Most of you with good knowledge in science knows
the brain produces our mind and consciousness so
we assume a pure mind can't exist without any brain.
But what if it is the normal rather than the exception.
Meaning, our biological evolution is designed exactly to
simulate the mind??

What do you think? Come on. Pls. refute this by
logic. I appeal to logic and common sense and
I can't refute this on my own. Need input. I'm a
materialist and I'd rather that our mind is solely
a function of our brain and there is nothing more
so we are not answerable to anyone or anything
and we can be as selfish or nasty as we can be.
Convince me this and I'd be indebted to you forever.

The following is background briefting (that show why mind
is part of physics theoretical research and so pure breed
physicists like Uncle Al musn't run or scream on
encountering the topic of mind or consciousness) :

http://www.livescience.com/health/050808_human_consciousness.html

kows

You are delusionaly mistaken right down to an error.

But there are some good questions here.

Lets start with nothing in particular but where you are - alive right
now. What is the probability that there is a STRUCTURE complex like
brain, looking like brain, working out there, physically free from
brain to call it soul?

Why do you think ATOMS are key ingredients of MIND?

If we deepen and complexify the view of development by taking into
account atoms and nuclear forces of each cell, why do you expect a
whole MIND THING to come out of nuclear forces?

Simple. Do you think we have fully understood everything there is
to know about QM? In fact, we just barely touch the surface.
What physicists are dealing with are simply formula to know
the probability in location particles would pop up given a wave
function. They don't even know what is a wave function, whether it
is real or just mathematical tool. Real being bohmian or many
worlds interpretation. So let's say it's bohmian and wave
function is real. There may be many hidden functions in
hilbert space, one of which can interact with something
else beyond matter. Gets? Also note Hameroff and Penrose
Microtubules mediating consciousness model as an example
of physicists studying beyond QM stuff. We know neurons
being switching system and chemicals or neurotransmitter
part of our brain but what Hameroff/Penrose is driving at is
that their microtubules quantum coherence mechanism explains
the global binding nature of the brain. See:

http://www.quantumconsciousness.org/penrose-hameroff/quantumcomputati...

I have been analyzing it this past 2 weeks on and off. What do you
think of
it? Anything you know that can categorically refute it?

kows