| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Quantum Mirror" |
| Date: |
21 Jan 2005 04:38:37 PM |
| Object: |
quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
Within the heart of a nearby spiral galaxy a quasar whose light
spectrum indicates that it is billions of light years away. The finding
poses a cosmic puzzle: How could a galaxy 300 million light years away
contain a stellar object several billion light years away? This puts in
jeopardy all cosmology based on quasar distance readings.
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mcquasar.asp
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
22 Jan 2005 01:26:53 AM |
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"Quantum Mirror" <junebug@pgrb.com> wrote in message
news:1106347117.897642.175110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Within the heart of a nearby spiral galaxy a quasar whose light
spectrum indicates that it is billions of light years away. The
finding
poses a cosmic puzzle: How could a galaxy 300 million light years
away
contain a stellar object several billion light years away? This puts
in
jeopardy all cosmology based on quasar distance readings.
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mcquasar.asp
The picture contains about one object per sq. cm which are fairly
obviously not part of the galaxy. The image of the galaxy itself has
an area o.O.o.10 sq.cm. I would therefore expect o.O.o. 10 objects
inside it which are not associated with it at all. The quasar is most
probably in that category. It probably does lie several billion LY
behind the galaxy.
What's so exciting about that?
Franz
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| User: "glbrad01" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
22 Jan 2005 05:54:09 PM |
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"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:cssv7s$eg0$4@titan.btinternet.com...
"Quantum Mirror" <junebug@pgrb.com> wrote in message
news:1106347117.897642.175110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Within the heart of a nearby spiral galaxy a quasar whose light
spectrum indicates that it is billions of light years away. The
finding
poses a cosmic puzzle: How could a galaxy 300 million light years
away
contain a stellar object several billion light years away? This puts
in
jeopardy all cosmology based on quasar distance readings.
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mcquasar.asp
The picture contains about one object per sq. cm which are fairly
obviously not part of the galaxy. The image of the galaxy itself has
an area o.O.o.10 sq.cm. I would therefore expect o.O.o. 10 objects
inside it which are not associated with it at all. The quasar is most
probably in that category. It probably does lie several billion LY
behind the galaxy.
What's so exciting about that?
Franz
Not relative?!?! How many times have you called me a fool for arguing that
very point about relativity!
Brad
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| User: "Franz Heymann" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
23 Jan 2005 09:23:08 AM |
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"glbrad01" <glbrad01@insightbb.com> wrote in message
news:BIBId.18149$4I2.11445@attbi_s01...
"Franz Heymann" <notfranz.heymann@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:cssv7s$eg0$4@titan.btinternet.com...
"Quantum Mirror" <junebug@pgrb.com> wrote in message
news:1106347117.897642.175110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Within the heart of a nearby spiral galaxy a quasar whose light
spectrum indicates that it is billions of light years away. The
finding
poses a cosmic puzzle: How could a galaxy 300 million light years
away
contain a stellar object several billion light years away? This
puts
in
jeopardy all cosmology based on quasar distance readings.
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mcquasar.asp
The picture contains about one object per sq. cm which are fairly
obviously not part of the galaxy. The image of the galaxy itself
has
an area o.O.o.10 sq.cm. I would therefore expect o.O.o. 10
objects
inside it which are not associated with it at all. The quasar is
most
probably in that category. It probably does lie several billion
LY
behind the galaxy.
What's so exciting about that?
Franz
Not relative?!?! How many times have you called me a fool for
arguing that
very point about relativity!
The content of your response escapes me entirely. I might get it if
you were to make it somewhat less telegraphic.
Franz
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| User: "CWatters" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
22 Jan 2005 03:58:36 AM |
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"Quantum Mirror" <junebug@pgrb.com> wrote in message
news:1106347117.897642.175110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Within the heart of a nearby spiral galaxy a quasar whose light
spectrum indicates that it is billions of light years away. The finding
poses a cosmic puzzle: How could a galaxy 300 million light years away
contain a stellar object several billion light years away? This puts in
jeopardy all cosmology based on quasar distance readings.
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mcquasar.asp
Perhaps it's velocity was only "recently" increased? Is that possible?
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| User: "Old Man" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
21 Jan 2005 09:14:06 PM |
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"Quantum Mirror" <junebug@pgrb.com> wrote in message
news:1106347117.897642.175110@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Within the heart of a nearby spiral galaxy a quasar whose light
spectrum indicates that it is billions of light years away. The finding
poses a cosmic puzzle: How could a galaxy 300 million light years away
contain a stellar object several billion light years away? This puts in
jeopardy all cosmology based on quasar distance readings.
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mcquasar.asp
According to the linked article, "recession velocity" was
calculated from "Doppler shift" :
" ... That recession velocity is calculated by measuring the
amount the star's light spectra is shifted to the lower frequency,
or red end, of the light spectrum. This physical phenomenon,
known as the Doppler Effect, ... "
This isn't cosmological red-shift
[Old Man]
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
21 Jan 2005 04:57:29 PM |
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Quantum Mirror wrote:
Within the heart of a nearby spiral galaxy a quasar whose light
spectrum indicates that it is billions of light years away. The finding
poses a cosmic puzzle: How could a galaxy 300 million light years away
contain a stellar object several billion light years away? This puts in
jeopardy all cosmology based on quasar distance readings.
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mcquasar.asp
Gravitational redshift. Why don't you tell us it is 15 billion ly
away and completey discredit yourself?
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
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| User: "Quantum Mirror" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
21 Jan 2005 07:38:01 PM |
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Gravitational redshift. Why don't you tell us it is 15 billion ly
away and completey discredit yourself?
Who said anything about 15 billion LY? I did not write the article.
Why don't you tell us how far away it is! I say it is 300million LY.
You misspelled completely!
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| User: "glbrad01" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
22 Jan 2005 05:51:06 PM |
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"Quantum Mirror" <junebug@pgrb.com> wrote in message
news:1106357881.024862.281220@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
Gravitational redshift. Why don't you tell us it is 15 billion ly
away and completey discredit yourself?
Who said anything about 15 billion LY? I did not write the article.
Why don't you tell us how far away it is! I say it is 300million LY.
You misspelled completely!
Fantastic, you and that [apparent] apparition have him driveling all over
himself. "Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from
mediocre minds..." -- Albert Einstein.
Brad
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
21 Jan 2005 04:50:35 PM |
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Quantum Mirror wrote:
Within [behind] the heart of a nearby spiral galaxy a quasar whose light
spectrum indicates that it is billions of light years away. The finding
poses a cosmic puzzle: How could a galaxy 300 million light years away
contain a stellar object several billion light years away? This puts in
jeopardy all cosmology based on quasar distance readings.
http://ucsdnews.ucsd.edu/newsrel/science/mcquasar.asp
I think that it is your understanding that is in jeopardy!
Relativistic Redshift
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/RelativisticRedshift.html
Gravitational Redshift
http://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/GravitationalRedshift.html
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| User: "Quantum Mirror" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
21 Jan 2005 07:32:00 PM |
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I think that it is your understanding that is in jeopardy!
How is it that my understanding is in jeopardy? Do you care to explain
or is cut and paste links the extent of your expertise? This was a
question relating to the article. Did you read the article? I was not
attacking your dogma and everything i wrote was from the article. The
links are to formula, what the hell good is that? How can the formula
be used in relation to this article? Are we suppose to figure the
distance to the quasar based on the redshift numbers?
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
21 Jan 2005 10:11:59 PM |
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Quantum Mirror wrote:
Within the heart of a nearby spiral galaxy a quasar whose light
spectrum indicates that it is billions of light years away. The finding
poses a cosmic puzzle: How could a galaxy 300 million light years away
contain a stellar object several billion light years away?
It doesn't--the distant quasar is *behind* nearby galaxy. Not a cosmic
puzzle after all.
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| User: "Quantum Mirror" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
22 Jan 2005 01:26:10 AM |
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It doesn't--the distant quasar is *behind* nearby galaxy. Not a cosmic
puzzle after all.
These are QUOTES from the article:
"raise a fundamental problem for astronomers who had long assumed that
the "high redshifts" in the light spectra of quasars meant these
objects were among the fastest receding objects in the universe and,
therefore, billions of light years away."
"No one has found a quasar with such a high redshift, with a redshift
of 2.11, so close to the center of an active galaxy," said Geoffrey
Burbidge."
"team measured the redshifts of the spiral galaxy and quasar and found
that the quasar appears to be interacting with the interstellar gas
within the galaxy."
"Because quasars and black holes are generally found within the most
energetic parts of galaxies, their centers, the astronomers are further
persuaded that this particular quasar resides within this spiral
galaxy. Geoffrey Burbidge added that the fact that the quasar is so
close to the center of this galaxy, only 8 arc seconds from the
nucleus, and does not appear to be shrouded in any way by interstellar
gas make it highly unlikely that the quasar lies far behind the galaxy,
its light shining through the galaxy near its center by "an accident
of projection."
"If this quasar is close by, its redshift cannot be due to the
expansion of the universe," he adds. "If this is the case, this
discovery casts doubt on the whole idea that quasars are very far away
and can be used to do cosmology."
What a degenerate bunch of losers that answered this question. Not a
one of you worth your weight in chicken *****!!!
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| User: "glbrad01" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
22 Jan 2005 05:38:42 PM |
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"Quantum Mirror" <junebug@pgrb.com> wrote in message
news:1106378770.797988.22720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
It doesn't--the distant quasar is *behind* nearby galaxy. Not a cosmic
puzzle after all.
These are QUOTES from the article:
"raise a fundamental problem for astronomers who had long assumed that
the "high redshifts" in the light spectra of quasars meant these
objects were among the fastest receding objects in the universe and,
therefore, billions of light years away."
"No one has found a quasar with such a high redshift, with a redshift
of 2.11, so close to the center of an active galaxy," said Geoffrey
Burbidge."
"team measured the redshifts of the spiral galaxy and quasar and found
that the quasar appears to be interacting with the interstellar gas
within the galaxy."
"Because quasars and black holes are generally found within the most
energetic parts of galaxies, their centers, the astronomers are further
persuaded that this particular quasar resides within this spiral
galaxy. Geoffrey Burbidge added that the fact that the quasar is so
close to the center of this galaxy, only 8 arc seconds from the
nucleus, and does not appear to be shrouded in any way by interstellar
gas make it highly unlikely that the quasar lies far behind the galaxy,
its light shining through the galaxy near its center by "an accident
of projection."
"If this quasar is close by, its redshift cannot be due to the
expansion of the universe," he adds. "If this is the case, this
discovery casts doubt on the whole idea that quasars are very far away
and can be used to do cosmology."
What a degenerate bunch of losers that answered this question. Not a
one of you worth your weight in chicken *****!!!
You're right as rain, so to speak. The environment this side, the other
side, over and under, left and right of it, should indicate where in time it
is. But, it is appearing to be out of its time slot.
I tried to do a humorous scenario in a recent post of mine "You can never
disprove relativity" illustrating exactly what was [apparently] discovered
here. I'm stunned the Universe presented us an actual case of what I tried
in my post to only caricature. I've tried to tell these wackos that it is
not real "space-time continuum" they are dealing in, it is [virtual
space-time continuum]. There is a vast difference.
I going to copy your quote because I'm engaged in another heated
discussion elsewhere involving dimensions of this very thing. I've been
engaged for years in fighting these people over this very thing and now it
appears that the Universe itself, or God Himself, is taking a hand in the
game as my partner (at least with respect to this particular skirmish).
Brad
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: quasar red shift does not indicate distance? |
22 Jan 2005 07:27:45 AM |
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Quantum Mirror wrote:
It doesn't--the distant quasar is *behind* nearby galaxy. Not a cosmic
puzzle after all.
These are QUOTES from the article:
"raise a fundamental problem for astronomers who had long assumed that
the "high redshifts" in the light spectra of quasars meant these
objects were among the fastest receding objects in the universe and,
therefore, billions of light years away."
"No one has found a quasar with such a high redshift, with a redshift
of 2.11, so close to the center of an active galaxy," said Geoffrey
Burbidge."
"team measured the redshifts of the sMirrorpiral galaxy and quasar and found
that the quasar appears to be interacting with the interstellar gas
within the galaxy."
"Because quasars and black holes are generally found within the most
energetic parts of galaxies, their centers, the astronomers are further
persuaded that this particular quasar resides within this spiral
galaxy. Geoffrey Burbidge added that the fact that the quasar is so
close to the center of this galaxy, only 8 arc seconds from the
nucleus, and does not appear to be shrouded in any way by interstellar
gas make it highly unlikely that the quasar lies far behind the galaxy,
its light shining through the galaxy near its center by "an accident
of projection."
"If this quasar is close by, its redshift cannot be due to the
expansion of the universe," he adds. "If this is the case, this
discovery casts doubt on the whole idea that quasars are very far away
and can be used to do cosmology."
What a degenerate bunch of losers that answered this question. Not a
one of you worth your weight in chicken *****!!!
What do you think is going on Mirror?
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