| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"William Hightower" |
| Date: |
10 Feb 2006 01:47:37 PM |
| Object: |
Question on Atomac Mass |
Please forgive my ignorance on this topic, this is all new to me. My
question is, can the Atomic Mass for Carbon (12.011 g.mol -1) and the Atomic
Mass of 2 Oxygen (15.999 g.mol -1) be added together as follows to equal
the total Atomic Mass of CO2?
12.001 g mol-1 + ( 2 * 15.999g.mol-1)
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| User: "OG" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 03:51:21 PM |
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"William Hightower" <william.hightower@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:t56Hf.381$JR6.108@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Please forgive my ignorance on this topic, this is all new to me. My
question is, can the Atomic Mass for Carbon (12.011 g.mol -1) and the
Atomic Mass of 2 Oxygen (15.999 g.mol -1) be added together as follows
to equal the total Atomic Mass of CO2?
12.001 g mol-1 + ( 2 * 15.999g.mol-1)
Yes, that's more or less right. However, for CO2, we should talk about the
Molecular Mass rather than the Atomic Mass.
As Greg has said, there is a tiny amount of binding energy that has to be
subtracted from the total, but this is minimal in the overall equation.
.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 01:55:35 PM |
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"William Hightower" <william.hightower@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:t56Hf.381$JR6.108@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Please forgive my ignorance on this topic, this is all new to me. My
| question is, can the Atomic Mass for Carbon (12.011 g.mol -1) and the
Atomic
| Mass of 2 Oxygen (15.999 g.mol -1) be added together as follows to equal
| the total Atomic Mass of CO2?
|
| 12.001 g mol-1 + ( 2 * 15.999g.mol-1)
For atoms to combine as a molecule, they need to share a particle.
so just adding their masses will not work technically.
:)
.
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| User: "William Hightower" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 01:58:03 PM |
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Fair enough, then how would one find the Atomic Mass of CO2?
Bill
"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:8fudnSLqjP8ocnHenZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@comcast.com...
"William Hightower" <william.hightower@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:t56Hf.381$JR6.108@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Please forgive my ignorance on this topic, this is all new to me. My
| question is, can the Atomic Mass for Carbon (12.011 g.mol -1) and the
Atomic
| Mass of 2 Oxygen (15.999 g.mol -1) be added together as follows to
equal
| the total Atomic Mass of CO2?
|
| 12.001 g mol-1 + ( 2 * 15.999g.mol-1)
For atoms to combine as a molecule, they need to share a particle.
so just adding their masses will not work technically.
:)
.
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 02:14:30 PM |
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"William Hightower" <william.hightower@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ff6Hf.383$JR6.192@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Fair enough, then how would one find the Atomic Mass of CO2?
Bill
I think you'll find that you needn't pay
attention to Spaceman; he's a local crank
troll.
You'll do fine adding the masses the way you
suggest for all practical purposes. Contrary
to what Spaceman implied, all the atoms come
with everything they need to form molecules;
they share existing electrons to make up the
bonds.
Technically speaking the binding energy will
make a contribution to the total mass
of the combined particles (a negative
contribution actually), but this is too small
to measure or make a difference in any
practical scenario; The binding energies of
molecular bonds are on the order of a few
electron volts, whereas the mass of a single
electron is about 511KeV.
.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 02:44:05 PM |
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"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:9v6Hf.40949$1e5.798356@news20.bellglobal.com...
<snipped the insultation physics Greg is so good for>
|
| You'll do fine adding the masses the way you
| suggest for all practical purposes. Contrary
| to what Spaceman implied, all the atoms come
| with everything they need to form molecules;
| they share existing electrons to make up the
| bonds.
They come with all yes, but must lose some to
bond at all.
sheesh!
| Technically speaking the binding energy will
| make a contribution to the total mass
| of the combined particles (a negative
| contribution actually), but this is too small
| to measure or make a difference in any
| practical scenario; The binding energies of
| molecular bonds are on the order of a few
| electron volts, whereas the mass of a single
| electron is about 511KeV.
So, when they lose an electron worth of mass,
They don't lose the entire mass of the electron.
That is pretty silly thinking you are doing.
That is like saying
2 electrons - 1 electron does not equal 1 electron.
LOL
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| User: "arvee" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 03:56:13 PM |
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Spaceman wrote:
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:9v6Hf.40949$1e5.798356@news20.bellglobal.com...
<snipped the insultation physics Greg is so good for>
|
| You'll do fine adding the masses the way you
| suggest for all practical purposes. Contrary
| to what Spaceman implied, all the atoms come
| with everything they need to form molecules;
| they share existing electrons to make up the
| bonds.
They come with all yes, but must lose some to
bond at all.
sheesh!
Nonsense. The electons are not lost---that's why the resulting molecule
as a whole is still electrically neutral.
R.G. Vickson
| Technically speaking the binding energy will
| make a contribution to the total mass
| of the combined particles (a negative
| contribution actually), but this is too small
| to measure or make a difference in any
| practical scenario; The binding energies of
| molecular bonds are on the order of a few
| electron volts, whereas the mass of a single
| electron is about 511KeV.
So, when they lose an electron worth of mass,
They don't lose the entire mass of the electron.
That is pretty silly thinking you are doing.
That is like saying
2 electrons - 1 electron does not equal 1 electron.
LOL
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 04:06:33 PM |
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"arvee" <C6L1V@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:1139608573.276897.40370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Nonsense. The electons are not lost---that's why the resulting molecule
| as a whole is still electrically neutral.
So a CO2 molecule still has all the electrons?
Carbon = 6 electrons
Oxygen = 8 electrons (times 2 for CO2)
C02 = 22 electrons
How can elecrons bond to each other?
are they not "repulsive" to each other?
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| User: "arvee" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 04:15:37 PM |
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Spaceman wrote:
"arvee" <C6L1V@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:1139608573.276897.40370@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
| Nonsense. The electons are not lost---that's why the resulting molecule
| as a whole is still electrically neutral.
So a CO2 molecule still has all the electrons?
Carbon = 6 electrons
Oxygen = 8 electrons (times 2 for CO2)
C02 = 22 electrons
How can elecrons bond to each other?
They don't, not really. The word "bond" is somewhat overused, mostly by
chemists.
are they not "repulsive" to each other?
Yes, but they are attracted to the nucleii (which, by the way, also
repel each other). Of course, even in a "raw" carbon or oxygen atom the
electrons are already repelling each other, so why are you not worried
about that? In the resulting CO2 molecule, we have electrons repelling
electrons, nucleii repelling nucleii and nucleii attracting electrons.
Magically, the whole thing hangs together.
R.G. Vickson
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 04:34:33 PM |
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"arvee" <C6L1V@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:1139609737.786569.117470@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
| They don't, not really. The word "bond" is somewhat overused, mostly by
| chemists.
Oh ya,
Chemists, those science guys that actually work with all sorts
of molecules and even create new ones all the time just for fun.
:)
| Yes, but they are attracted to the nucleii (which, by the way, also
| repel each other). Of course, even in a "raw" carbon or oxygen atom the
| electrons are already repelling each other, so why are you not worried
| about that? In the resulting CO2 molecule, we have electrons repelling
| electrons, nucleii repelling nucleii and nucleii attracting electrons.
| Magically, the whole thing hangs together.
Magically?
So when hydrogen "bonds" to 2 oxygen atoms to create water,
it can now magically fit 2 extra electrons in the inner shell?
3 electrons in an inner shell.
WOW!
Total magic!
:)
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 02:07:06 PM |
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"William Hightower" <william.hightower@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ff6Hf.383$JR6.192@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Fair enough, then how would one find the Atomic Mass of CO2?
A really basic way to do such is to simply
take the total mass you get normally, and then subtract
the amount of mass lost when the atom loses one of, and then
shares the bonding particle.
In CO2 case it would be 2 electrons I think?
(2 electrons would be lost for 2 Oxygen atoms to bond with the
1 carbon atom.)
so basically it should be something like.
Carbon mass + 2 Oxygen mass - 2 electron mass = CO2 mass.
I think anyway.
:)
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 04:22:09 PM |
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William Hightower wrote:
Fair enough, then how would one find the Atomic Mass of CO2?
Bill
Bill, you'll find that you needn't pay attention to Spaceman or
spaceshit as many of us call him, as he's a local crank troll
that will literally waste your time.
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| User: "Eric Gisse" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 05:17:14 PM |
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Spaceman wrote:
"William Hightower" <william.hightower@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:t56Hf.381$JR6.108@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
| Please forgive my ignorance on this topic, this is all new to me. My
| question is, can the Atomic Mass for Carbon (12.011 g.mol -1) and the
Atomic
| Mass of 2 Oxygen (15.999 g.mol -1) be added together as follows to equal
| the total Atomic Mass of CO2?
|
| 12.001 g mol-1 + ( 2 * 15.999g.mol-1)
For atoms to combine as a molecule, they need to share a particle.
so just adding their masses will not work technically.
:)
Shutup spaceshit, you don't know what you are talking about.
.
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| User: "Eric Gisse" |
|
| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 05:17:55 PM |
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William Hightower wrote:
Please forgive my ignorance on this topic, this is all new to me. My
question is, can the Atomic Mass for Carbon (12.011 g.mol -1) and the Atomic
Mass of 2 Oxygen (15.999 g.mol -1) be added together as follows to equal
the total Atomic Mass of CO2?
12.001 g mol-1 + ( 2 * 15.999g.mol-1)
Correct.
.
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| User: "William Hightower" |
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| Title: Re: Question on Atomac Mass |
10 Feb 2006 06:16:22 PM |
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Thank you all for your responses. This has been an education for me. Again ,
Thanks to all.
Bill
"Eric Gisse" <jowr.pi@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1139613475.345899.130900@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
William Hightower wrote:
Please forgive my ignorance on this topic, this is all new to me. My
question is, can the Atomic Mass for Carbon (12.011 g.mol -1) and the
Atomic
Mass of 2 Oxygen (15.999 g.mol -1) be added together as follows to
equal
the total Atomic Mass of CO2?
12.001 g mol-1 + ( 2 * 15.999g.mol-1)
Correct.
.
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