| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"C.M.Houts" |
| Date: |
08 Nov 2003 09:53:21 PM |
| Object: |
questions about working in the field of physics |
Greetings,
I am hoping that someone might give me some insight about working as a
physicist. I am pursuing a lifelong dream of being a scientist and have
recently returned to school to pursue a degree in physics. It is my plan to
get my masters degree and then decide whether I wish to continue onto a Ph.d
or return to the workforce. I have checked out aps.org, I know all of the
stats and that is not my concern. I would however like to get some opinions
on working for private industry as opposed to a government agency. How much
autonomy do you have as an individual to pursue your research (within the
confines of your employers needs, obviously)? Is the work team oriented or
individually assigned? Is it possible to be a self employed physicist? Do
you get travel? Is it a good idea to belong to associations such as APS or
does it really matter? Is there anything special I should do or pay
attention to while I am in school (other than my grades)? There are many
other questions that I have and any advice or thoughts would be greatly
appreciated. I thank you for your time.
Regards,
Christine Houts
.
|
|
| User: "Uncle Al" |
|
| Title: Re: questions about working in the field of physics |
09 Nov 2003 09:46:13 AM |
|
|
"C.M.Houts" wrote:
Greetings,
I am hoping that someone might give me some insight about working as a
physicist. I am pursuing a lifelong dream of being a scientist and have
recently returned to school to pursue a degree in physics.
You will be unemployable. Do it for your own pleasure, but have an
independent income stream.
It is my plan to
get my masters degree and then decide whether I wish to continue onto a Ph.d
or return to the workforce.
Applicant, "I have an MS/Physics and I'd like to work in your burger
joint."
Manager, "I'm sorry, all my fry cooks are PhDs."
I have checked out aps.org, I know all of the
stats and that is not my concern. I would however like to get some opinions
on working for private industry as opposed to a government agency.
***** for the Man. Have some clever idea about Homeland Severity like
remote FFT inteception of 72-virgin Muslim thoughts. As a last
resort, work for NASA devining "important" micro-gee experiments that
require Man-in-space. Note tht NASA's major pride and joy is more
than a tonne of micro-gee feces and urine frozen in small plastic bags
- an irreplaceable treasure of mankind. (The Russians have more than
7 hrs of pinhole camera movies of Shannon Lucid going potty in Mir, 22
March - 26 September 1996.)
How much
autonomy do you have as an individual to pursue your research (within the
confines of your employers needs, obviously)?
No autonomy whatsoever. Industrial scientists do what they are told
by their betters (managment, with a BA in psychology from a
correspondence school) and they kiss ***** until their lips are
chapped. An MS is meaningless in academia. Junior faculty cleans out
departmental septic tanks with their tongues. Nobody who says
anything unfundable survives. 90+% of funding goes to tenured faculty
because new ideas are dripping with unquantifiable "risk." MBAs have
DCF/ROI.
Is the work team oriented or
individually assigned? Is it possible to be a self employed physicist? Do
you get travel? Is it a good idea to belong to associations such as APS or
does it really matter? Is there anything special I should do or pay
attention to while I am in school (other than my grades)? There are many
other questions that I have and any advice or thoughts would be greatly
appreciated. I thank you for your time.
<
Regards,
Christine Houts
Where have you been? The rub with victimology and rule of the
disempowered is that there is always somebody even less qualified, a
worse victim, and more screwed up than you are. You want a break for
being a woman? Okay, but you're a white woman and just got euchred
out of that position by a Chicana two-fer. She finds herself
competing against a sexually harassed Black lesbian single mother
intravenous drug addict with AIDS doing the Macarena in a wheelchair.
You haven't got a chance. Now, what will you do to change that?
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
.
|
|
|
| User: "agnina" |
|
| Title: Re: questions about working in the field of physics |
09 Nov 2003 12:59:44 PM |
|
|
Here are a few thoughts on your questions. I have worked in research
academia, industry, and teaching academia. The technical jobs in
industry are geared towards making or improving a particular product.
They are very team oriented (which I see as a positive), but the tasks
are generally not basic research. Over the past few decades, most big
corporations have drastically reduced their emphasis on basic
research. Even the once great companies, like Bell Labs or IBM, are
only a shadow of their former selves. Some people find technial work
in an industrial setting very limiting and unpleasant. I found it sort
of hard and stressful. In academia, you don't have to produce anything
in order to be a success; that's not true in industry.
I have a low opinion of the research careers at a major university.
The only real careers (with reasonable pay and benefits and status)
are the tenured faculty positions. The other positions tend to be
tenuous, low paying and have little chance for advancement. Most
tenured faculty actually do very little research. Instead, they tend
to manage a group of postdocs and grad students. Especially in
experimental groups, an estaablished tenured faculty member looks a
lot like a mid-level manager or technical director in industry. Most
people go into physics because they like to build equipment, do
experiments, and work with theories. These activities are a small part
of the faculty job at a major university. Instead, you must teach
classes, attend committee meetings, write grant proposals, manage the
budgets for your group, etc. At the moment, you are judged by how many
grants you can get and by how many papers you can publish. A lot of
your time is spent fund raising (through grants) and marketing for new
funds. Though most of the published papers have many authors, there is
actually little real collaboration. It's not what most physicists
envisioned when they started their careers.
At smaller universities or colleges, the research expectations are
lower. In general, you would have smaller groups and more opportunity
to stay involved in the actual doing of science. Unfortunately, you
often have a larger teaching assignment or other service committments
which take most of your time.
I'm not as familiar with the national labs. I have friends who work at
some of the weapons labs (Los Alamos, Livermore, Sandia). Most of
those places are past their prime. They have lost their sense of
purpose, and morale seems to be low. Some friends of mine at NIST and
NIH are happy with their careers. They are still involved in basic
research, but quite often, they are in soft money positions where they
have to pay their salary (or at least some of it) out of grant money
they raise.
Try not to be too idealisitic about modern science. Look at the
options and if you do pursue a PhD program make sure to identify a
reasonable, supportive advisor for your research project. The quality
of the PhD experience is highly variable, even within the same
department.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
|
| Title: Re: questions about working in the field of physics |
09 Nov 2003 10:26:46 AM |
|
|
Uncle Al wrote:
You haven't got a chance. Now, what will you do to change that?
Unc? Unc? How does any physics get done at all?
Bob Kolker
.
|
|
|
| User: "The Ghost In The Machine" |
|
| Title: Re: questions about working in the field of physics |
09 Nov 2003 03:00:05 PM |
|
|
In sci.physics, Robert J. Kolker
<bobkolker@attbi.com>
wrote
on Sun, 09 Nov 2003 11:26:46 -0500
<bolps9$1g0t9v$1@ID-76471.news.uni-berlin.de>:
Uncle Al wrote:
You haven't got a chance. Now, what will you do to change that?
Unc? Unc? How does any physics get done at all?
Bob Kolker
Clinical chemistry is routinely done, usually by drug companies.
They basically answer the question "does this drug work?".
Research chemistry and research physics are not quite as often
done, answering the question "what does this do?". I have
a sneaking suspicion, however, that we will be cutting back on
large-scale physics research to save taxpayer money so that we
can finance new tax breaks for large-scale corporations.
After all, what's good for large-scale corporations is good for
America.
(Now where have I heard that one before...? :-) )
--
#191,
It's still legal to go .sigless.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "davidoff404" |
|
| Title: Re: questions about working in the field of physics |
08 Nov 2003 10:55:16 PM |
|
|
C.M.Houts wrote:
Greetings,
I am hoping that someone might give me some insight about working as a
physicist. I am pursuing a lifelong dream of being a scientist and have
recently returned to school to pursue a degree in physics. It is my plan to
get my masters degree and then decide whether I wish to continue onto a Ph.d
or return to the workforce.
Both of which are extremely attainable goals once you're willing to put
in the time.
I have checked out aps.org, I know all of the
stats and that is not my concern. I would however like to get some opinions
on working for private industry as opposed to a government agency. How much
autonomy do you have as an individual to pursue your research (within the
confines of your employers needs, obviously)?
If you want to pursue research the absolute best way to go is the
academic route. Make a name for yourself with your PhD thesis. Attend
conferences and network with those in your chosen field. Publish often.
Be cordial and helpful to those around you. Follow this advice and
people will let you research whatever you want, usually in return for
the very small price of having to teach.
Is the work team oriented or
individually assigned? Is it possible to be a self employed physicist?
Nobody works individually. Even those theorists who work in the most
esoteric areas imaginable are usually involved in ongoing collaboration.
As to being a self-employed physicist, don't do it unless you can either
(a) produce something truly astonishing (extremely unlikely) or (b)
don't care about your work being ignored.
Do
you get travel?
Physicists get to travel a load. It's one of the best aspects of the job.
Is it a good idea to belong to associations such as APS or
does it really matter?
Don't bother with it. Cream always rises, regardless of whether it's got
a subscription to some stupid newsletter.
Is there anything special I should do or pay
attention to while I am in school (other than my grades)?
There are two pieces of advice I can give you based on my own
experience. (a) Learn as much mathematics along the way as you possibly
can; you *cannot* be a physicist without being fluent in mathematics.
(b) Try to distinguish yourself from your peers as much as possible;
this usually means that you need to be original in the way you approach
problems.
davidoff
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rene Tschaggelar" |
|
| Title: Re: questions about working in the field of physics |
09 Nov 2003 02:06:08 PM |
|
|
C.M.Houts wrote:
Greetings,
I am hoping that someone might give me some insight about working as a
physicist. I am pursuing a lifelong dream of being a scientist and have
recently returned to school to pursue a degree in physics. It is my plan to
get my masters degree and then decide whether I wish to continue onto a Ph.d
or return to the workforce. I have checked out aps.org, I know all of the
stats and that is not my concern. I would however like to get some opinions
on working for private industry as opposed to a government agency. How much
autonomy do you have as an individual to pursue your research (within the
confines of your employers needs, obviously)? Is the work team oriented or
individually assigned? Is it possible to be a self employed physicist? Do
you get travel? Is it a good idea to belong to associations such as APS or
does it really matter? Is there anything special I should do or pay
attention to while I am in school (other than my grades)? There are many
other questions that I have and any advice or thoughts would be greatly
appreciated. I thank you for your time.
Regards,
Christine Houts
Hi Christine,
doing a deegree in physics will give you the long awaited
status of being super bright. Meaning you don't have to talk long
to achieve that anymore. The average won't question you anymore.
That may be an advantage and opens many doors, and in other
situations it may also appear as disadvantage.
Other than that, staying in the academic field may or may not
be rewarding. Before becoming professor you have to endure a long
time of not being recognized fully. A common way to have post docs
working from morning to morning. Not getting a permanent position
enhances this effect. Being a woman can accelerate your path to
become professor though.
Dropping out of the academic field into the industry is somewhat
hard. There are many physicists working for banks and insurances.
If you happen not to work for either of them, you are in the
very narrow world of companies that can afford to hire a physicist.
At least over here you are automatically in the upper management,
or they believe you belong there. Usually as carrier of special
knowledge regarded as vital for the company. Since these seats are
usually already distributed, they don't wait for you. Especially
since the knowledge you bring from the academic field is such
specialized that it is considered worthless.
So how do you get into one of these seats ?
Perhaps by being co-founder of a new startup company that does
what you did the research on. This means you have to already be
on a promising new field of research. Meaning :
-no particle physics
-no nuclear technology
-no cryo technology
and so on.
And finally, yes, you can be self-employed.
Is it financially rewarding ? Next question please.
Rene
--
Ing.Buero R.Tschaggelar - http://www.ibrtses.com
& commercial newsgroups - http://www.talkto.net
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "C.M.Houts" |
|
| Title: Re: questions about working in the field of physics |
09 Nov 2003 09:06:38 PM |
|
|
My thanks to all for your honest answers. Definitely a lot of food for
thought, luckily I have a few years to chew over it before I need to
determine my course of action.
Regards,
Christine Houts
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Helmut Wabnig" |
|
| Title: Re: questions about working in the field of physics |
09 Nov 2003 12:46:18 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 8 Nov 2003 22:53:21 -0500, "C.M.Houts" <cmhouts@charter.net>
wrote:
Greetings,
I am hoping that someone might give me some insight about working as a
physicist. I am pursuing a lifelong dream of being a scientist and have
recently returned to school to pursue a degree in physics. It is my plan to
get my masters degree and then decide whether I wish to continue onto a Ph.d
or return to the workforce. I have checked out aps.org, I know all of the
stats and that is not my concern. I would however like to get some opinions
on working for private industry as opposed to a government agency.
How much
autonomy do you have as an individual to pursue your research (within the
confines of your employers needs, obviously)?
(nil, almost).
They will phone you at midnight, asking what to do with all the
waste scrap they produced during the afternoon.
You are the well paid "processs engineer", responsible for everything,
and they know you have the better salary than everybody else.
Is the work team oriented or
individually assigned?
It's TEAM, TEAM, TEAM.
They will always try to spoil your ideas by contemplating concerns,
by overestimating minute riscs, by never trusting you.
Is it possible to be a self employed physicist?
Prepare to live on 1 $ per day.
Do you get travel?
Yes, the only thing which works.
Is it a good idea to belong to associations such as APS or
does it really matter?
Associations pave your way.
Is there anything special I should do or pay
attention to while I am in school (other than my grades)?
Girls, girls, girls.
Then, it's too late.
There are many
other questions that I have and any advice or thoughts would be greatly
appreciated. I thank you for your time.
You 're welcome.
w.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Helmut Wabnig" |
|
| Title: Re: questions about working in the field of physics |
09 Nov 2003 04:09:56 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 09 Nov 2003 07:46:18 +0100, Helmut Wabnig
<hXXXwabnig@aXXXon.at> wrote:
Is there anything special I should do or pay
attention to while I am in school (other than my grades)?
Girls, girls, girls.
Then, it's too late.
Oops, sorry, Christine. (grin)
w.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
