| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"dots@fat b a b i e s.com Alhazred" |
| Date: |
24 Dec 2003 04:27:57 AM |
| Object: |
'Quiet Space' |
Hi I'm a science-fiction writer and was hoping someone could help me
explore the implications of this idea (however pseudo-jargony the idea):
Typical vacuum is a sea of "quantum foam" . . . what if some scientist
creates a bit of nothingness that is theoretically "outside" the
universe--in which there is no quantum foam--no uncertainty
principle--just flat out nothing.
I guess that matter/energy and force inside would be impossible. What
might happen if matter were inserted? (Remember it's s-f). What might
happen if it started spreading?
Any thoughts?
-----
Eric Alhazred
"I wish I'd been a movie comedian...and had never heard of
physics"
--Wolfgang Pauli
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| User: "S. Enterprize Company" |
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| Title: Re: 'Quiet Space' - Quantum Foam?? Nope |
24 Dec 2003 10:22:15 PM |
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Hi I'm a science-fiction writer and was hoping someone could help me
explore the implications of this idea (however pseudo-jargony the idea):
Typical vacuum is a sea of "quantum foam" . . . what if some scientist
There is no evidence of Quantum Foam in a vacuum or a vacuum formed by
Quantum Foam. There is no Quantum Foam. If there was Quantum Foam we would see
soap bubbles everywhere in a vacuum. The universe is too structured to even
have such a thing. Quantum Foam is just a sorry excuse for trying to explain
physics without Aether. Aether Fluid exists NOT Quantum Foam.
creates a bit of nothingness that is theoretically "outside" the
universe--in which there is no quantum foam--no uncertainty
principle--just flat out nothing.
I guess that matter/energy and force inside would be impossible. What
might happen if matter were inserted? (Remember it's s-f). What might
happen if it started spreading?
Any thoughts?
-----
Eric Alhazred
"I wish I'd been a movie comedian...and had never heard of
physics"
" And I wish you would have been too because QM is incorrect."
Smart1234
--Wolfgang Pauli
Smart's Alt. Physics News Group
http://pub39.bravenet.com/forum/show.php?usernum=3320272813&cpv=1
S. Enterprize (Science Journal)
http://smart1234.s-enterprize.com/
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: 'Quiet Space' |
24 Dec 2003 08:35:10 AM |
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Alhazred wrote:
Hi I'm a science-fiction writer and was hoping someone could help me
explore the implications of this idea (however pseudo-jargony the idea):
Typical vacuum is a sea of "quantum foam" . . . what if some scientist
creates a bit of nothingness that is theoretically "outside" the
universe--in which there is no quantum foam--no uncertainty
principle--just flat out nothing.
I guess that matter/energy and force inside would be impossible. What
might happen if matter were inserted? (Remember it's s-f). What might
happen if it started spreading?
Any thoughts?
That place would be the most horrible place you could couldn't
imagine--worse than death--worse than non existence! I'd want
to stick with the real universe with all of its activity, energy
and violence! The Uncertainty Principle is enough to send my atoms
to improbable circumstances for real... turn up the Planck constant
and you'd have a real thriller!
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: 'Quiet Space' |
24 Dec 2003 10:53:06 AM |
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Alhazred wrote:
Hi I'm a science-fiction writer and was hoping someone could help me
explore the implications of this idea (however pseudo-jargony the idea):
Typical vacuum is a sea of "quantum foam" . . . what if some scientist
creates a bit of nothingness that is theoretically "outside" the
universe--in which there is no quantum foam--no uncertainty
principle--just flat out nothing.
I guess that matter/energy and force inside would be impossible. What
might happen if matter were inserted? (Remember it's s-f). What might
happen if it started spreading?
Any thoughts?
What about a bit of superior nothingness inside the universe? A
Casimir gap is a very small etalon (100-1000 nm gap) that excludes
zero point flucuations (with the usual etalon cutoff vs. gap width).
<http://www.phy.davidson.edu/StuHome/cabell_f/diffractionfinal/pages/Fabry.htm>
http://www.slsoptics.com/theory.htm
http://www.tecoptics.com/etalons/theory.htm
<http://www.precisionphotonics.com/Technology/ etalonintroduction.pdf>
In principle one could construct Casimatter - alternate microlayers of
reflective metal and transparent dielectric - that was nothing but
Casimir etalons. They you get creative with the sf.
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/casimir3.htm
Middle for practical fabrication.
Folks have already meaningfully diddled with those EmptyMinus
(trademark!) gaps,
http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0107091
Scharnhorn effect
Also,
http://www.calphysics.org/research.html
Stochastic electrodynamics
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
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| User: "Rick Sobie" |
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| Title: Re: 'Quiet Space' |
24 Dec 2003 06:04:50 AM |
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In article <3fed6756.9967696@nntp.service.ohio-state.edu>, says...
Hi I'm a science-fiction writer and was hoping someone could help me
explore the implications of this idea (however pseudo-jargony the idea):
Typical vacuum is a sea of "quantum foam" . . . what if some scientist
creates a bit of nothingness that is theoretically "outside" the
universe--in which there is no quantum foam--no uncertainty
principle--just flat out nothing.
I guess that matter/energy and force inside would be impossible. What
might happen if matter were inserted? (Remember it's s-f). What might
happen if it started spreading?
Any thoughts?
Well lets look at reality first...
Our physical reality consists of energy. We are E=mc2.
We detect things which change. Water is hot, because our
hand is not.
In hyperspace or lets examine a wormhole, we pull apart
space-time (Maxwell's waves, background radiation that
can be calculated without needing to inlcude the ether
which these waves travel in) The ether or quantum foam,
is the medium, we are energy in the medium. Just like
a wave on the ocean, is not water itself, it is energy
in water.
Heat, is also this background radiation. Heat is merely
these waves interacting with atoms. It is not heat, until
an atom is affected. No measurement of heat takes
place without seeing how an atom is affected by the EM waves.
So, in hyperspace, there are no EM waves, we have created
an area a hole, where inside this ring - lets suppose
it is a spinning black hole, and inside Dr. Kaku's ring of fire
is emptimess. A wormhole which leads to and is part of empty
space or hyperspace.
Would you come face to face with the quantum foam?
You cannot come into contact or come to realize the quantum
foam, any more thatn a wave on the ocean, can become the water.
They are two separate things.
So if you put matter into hyperspace, you might decompress onto
the walls of the wormhole or you might not be affected at all.
But it would be cold. No em waves, no heat.
But your energy is from this universe. Your elements have
a frequency. That frequency might remain teh same as
the universe you just left. So in a way you are merely taking
a bit of that universe with you.
So to imagine a place outside the quantum foam should not be
so difficult since we have to imagine the quantum foam in
the first place in order for it to exist. Waves have to
travel in some medium. And that is why we imagine we know
what that medium is, and maybe, you can detect some
portion of it, if you hit it at precisely 90 degrees,
with a shock wave, you might see a reflection of the quantum foam.
So outside of that is who knows what. But you would
find that there would be no EM waves in hyperspace.
You might find a paralell universe, but it would be made
of Maxwell's waves on another frequency. Just shifted off ours.
The multiverse is based on that idea.
Suppose we existed on the surface of the quantum foam, and you
plunged into it. That might be different.
Suppose you went through it and found it had layers. That too
would be different.
Releasing some matter into hyperspace, so that it started
spreading? Hmmm... Or maybe you mean some other space.
Like some sort of other dimension? But that is inconcievable
because we know what matter is, what physicality is,
and what the quantum foam is. What about a new form of energy,
just like electricity was discovered 200 years ago,
and yet it was there all along.
What about some new form of energy that was all around but only
glimpsed or misunderstood.
However I think you are looking for some kind of sci fi based
notion, of what might happen if the area between things,
became filled with stuff. Well infinity lies between
any two points. You can divide for infinity. We can only detect
in this universe things of Plank length minimum.
But we can't even tell if things are truly touching or
if they are separate and discreet because we can't grasp
how anything of it is possible in the first place.
But then thankfully, we are just waves, and waves just keep
rolling along, as long as something keeps pushing them along,
and so we don't need to hurt our heads thinking about
what God might be made of.
-*-
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| User: "Rick Sobie" |
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| Title: Re: 'Quiet Space' |
24 Dec 2003 06:32:16 AM |
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In article <ChfGb.802474$pl3.78974@pd7tw3no>, says...
In article <3fed6756.9967696@nntp.service.ohio-state.edu>, says...
Hi I'm a science-fiction writer and was hoping someone could help me
explore the implications of this idea (however pseudo-jargony the idea):
Typical vacuum is a sea of "quantum foam" . . . what if some scientist
creates a bit of nothingness that is theoretically "outside" the
universe--in which there is no quantum foam--no uncertainty
principle--just flat out nothing.
I guess that matter/energy and force inside would be impossible. What
might happen if matter were inserted? (Remember it's s-f). What might
happen if it started spreading?
Any thoughts?
Well lets look at reality first...
Our physical reality consists of energy. We are E=mc2.
We detect things which change. Water is hot, because our
hand is not.
In hyperspace or lets examine a wormhole, we pull apart
space-time (Maxwell's waves, background radiation that
can be calculated without needing to inlcude the ether
which these waves travel in) The ether or quantum foam,
is the medium, we are energy in the medium. Just like
a wave on the ocean, is not water itself, it is energy
in water.
Heat, is also this background radiation. Heat is merely
these waves interacting with atoms. It is not heat, until
an atom is affected. No measurement of heat takes
place without seeing how an atom is affected by the EM waves.
So, in hyperspace, there are no EM waves, we have created
an area a hole, where inside this ring - lets suppose
it is a spinning black hole, and inside Dr. Kaku's ring of fire
is emptimess. A wormhole which leads to and is part of empty
space or hyperspace.
Would you come face to face with the quantum foam?
You cannot come into contact or come to realize the quantum
foam, any more thatn a wave on the ocean, can become the water.
They are two separate things.
So if you put matter into hyperspace, you might decompress onto
the walls of the wormhole or you might not be affected at all.
But it would be cold. No em waves, no heat.
But your energy is from this universe. Your elements have
a frequency. That frequency might remain teh same as
the universe you just left. So in a way you are merely taking
a bit of that universe with you.
So to imagine a place outside the quantum foam should not be
so difficult since we have to imagine the quantum foam in
the first place in order for it to exist. Waves have to
travel in some medium. And that is why we imagine we know
what that medium is, and maybe, you can detect some
portion of it, if you hit it at precisely 90 degrees,
with a shock wave, you might see a reflection of the quantum foam.
In case you need an anology...
If you took a paddle and smacked down on the water at ninety
degrees, hard enough, you might get impressions in the paddle
from the molecules of the water.
I suppose that is sort of what they try to do when they try
to detect quarks.
If you are suggesting that you made some kind of matter and
released it into hyperspace and it is growing, then buddy
you are in big trouble.
;-)
I heard a story like that from the Philadephia/Montauk project
where they created some kind of wormhole and it was growing and
they thought it might consume the earth and so they had to
send some guys back through time to wreck the equipment.
For me, I have a religion that takes care of all my concerns
that someone might break the universe. We tried. And
it is outside of our reality, we are just waves.
You cannot hurt the quantum foam. However, if you smack it
with a paddle, you might get its attention, and who knows,
it might scare the crap outta you for smacking it.
I like the discovery of a new form of energy idea better.
It sounds more possible. Dangerous? Is electricity dangerous?
Spooky? Well maybe.
What about that stuff that was coming out of Madame Blavatsky's
nose? That was spooky.
Check it out. It even creeps _me out. ;)
http://www.survivalafterdeath.org/photographs/notzing/3.htm
So outside of that is who knows what. But you would
find that there would be no EM waves in hyperspace.
You might find a paralell universe, but it would be made
of Maxwell's waves on another frequency. Just shifted off ours.
The multiverse is based on that idea.
Suppose we existed on the surface of the quantum foam, and you
plunged into it. That might be different.
Suppose you went through it and found it had layers. That too
would be different.
Releasing some matter into hyperspace, so that it started
spreading? Hmmm... Or maybe you mean some other space.
Like some sort of other dimension? But that is inconcievable
because we know what matter is, what physicality is,
and what the quantum foam is. What about a new form of energy,
just like electricity was discovered 200 years ago,
and yet it was there all along.
What about some new form of energy that was all around but only
glimpsed or misunderstood.
However I think you are looking for some kind of sci fi based
notion, of what might happen if the area between things,
became filled with stuff. Well infinity lies between
any two points. You can divide for infinity. We can only detect
in this universe things of Plank length minimum.
But we can't even tell if things are truly touching or
if they are separate and discreet because we can't grasp
how anything of it is possible in the first place.
But then thankfully, we are just waves, and waves just keep
rolling along, as long as something keeps pushing them along,
and so we don't need to hurt our heads thinking about
what God might be made of.
-*-
.
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