| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"gis" |
| Date: |
01 Nov 2003 10:38:21 PM |
| Object: |
radioactive waste |
Hi,
I wrote a paper (university level) on waste disposal, and was wondering if a
professional here could possibly read it and critique it?
if you are a scientist, engineer, student, doesn't matter.....just looking
for some constructive criticism.
It's not that long, ~7 pages, 1.5 spacing...
Anyway, e-mail if you are interested in helping, thanks
.
|
|
| User: "Uncle Al" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
02 Nov 2003 09:52:39 AM |
|
|
gis wrote:
Hi,
I wrote a paper (university level) on waste disposal, and was wondering if a
professional here could possibly read it and critique it?
if you are a scientist, engineer, student, doesn't matter.....just looking
for some constructive criticism.
It's not that long, ~7 pages, 1.5 spacing...
Anyway, e-mail if you are interested in helping, thanks
Current waste disposal is the militiary cycle - clean alpha stream and
waste beta contaminated ith alpha. This makes nice bombs but is
intensely stupid for civilian power reactors. The resulting waste
stream must be stored forever. Bombs are a waste of money and their
total fissile material requirements are small - a few tonnes.
Rational waste disposal is the civilian cycle - clean beta stream for
short term (1-10K years) decay storage and no fear of spontaneous
critical mass assembly. The beta-contaminated alpha stream goes back
as fuel. There's nothing like gamma-hot fuel pellets to discourage
informal acquisition.
UNKNOWN HAZARDS of fissile material diversion are crap. A few kilos
of esterified benzilic acid plus quinuclidinol will get you a vastly
more interesting low-tech weapon than a potential few kilotonnes that
only occurs with excellent engineering. Destroying a city - London
bltiz, the World Trade Center, Hitler and Stalingrad and Moscow,
Curtis Le May firebombing the whole of Japan - has never been a
fruitful tactic. Driving 8 million people insane with no direct
deaths would be much more telling: Priests and therapists would get
into the act. What a devastating expensive perpetual circus!
As for security... radiation can be remote-scanned, even unto single
gamma photon counting. How effective is the $20 billion/year War on
Drugs at interdicting chemicals?
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
.
|
|
|
| User: "greywolf42" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
02 Nov 2003 12:07:13 PM |
|
|
Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA52847.4261FE3A@hate.spam.net...
gis wrote:
Hi,
I wrote a paper (university level) on waste disposal, and was wondering
if a
professional here could possibly read it and critique it?
if you are a scientist, engineer, student, doesn't matter.....just
looking
for some constructive criticism.
It's not that long, ~7 pages, 1.5 spacing...
Anyway, e-mail if you are interested in helping, thanks
Current waste disposal is the militiary cycle - clean alpha stream and
waste beta contaminated ith alpha. This makes nice bombs but is
intensely stupid for civilian power reactors. The resulting waste
stream must be stored forever. Bombs are a waste of money and their
total fissile material requirements are small - a few tonnes.
Rational waste disposal is the civilian cycle - clean beta stream for
short term (1-10K years) decay storage and no fear of spontaneous
critical mass assembly. The beta-contaminated alpha stream goes back
as fuel. There's nothing like gamma-hot fuel pellets to discourage
informal acquisition.
UNKNOWN HAZARDS of fissile material diversion are crap. A few kilos
of esterified benzilic acid plus quinuclidinol will get you a vastly
more interesting low-tech weapon than a potential few kilotonnes that
only occurs with excellent engineering. Destroying a city - London
bltiz, the World Trade Center, Hitler and Stalingrad and Moscow,
Curtis Le May firebombing the whole of Japan - has never been a
fruitful tactic. Driving 8 million people insane with no direct
deaths would be much more telling: Priests and therapists would get
into the act. What a devastating expensive perpetual circus!
As for security... radiation can be remote-scanned, even unto single
gamma photon counting. How effective is the $20 billion/year War on
Drugs at interdicting chemicals?
Uh, Al. Please learn something before you post. Almost every statement
above is flat-out wrong. Waste does not come in *alpha* *beta* and *gamma*
wastes. SOME military feed wastes can possibly be highly alpha - oriented.
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
.
|
|
|
| User: "Uncle Al" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
02 Nov 2003 02:40:06 PM |
|
|
greywolf42 wrote:
Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA52847.4261FE3A@hate.spam.net...
gis wrote:
Hi,
I wrote a paper (university level) on waste disposal, and was wondering
if a
professional here could possibly read it and critique it?
if you are a scientist, engineer, student, doesn't matter.....just
looking
for some constructive criticism.
It's not that long, ~7 pages, 1.5 spacing...
Anyway, e-mail if you are interested in helping, thanks
Current waste disposal is the militiary cycle - clean alpha stream and
waste beta contaminated ith alpha. This makes nice bombs but is
intensely stupid for civilian power reactors. The resulting waste
stream must be stored forever. Bombs are a waste of money and their
total fissile material requirements are small - a few tonnes.
Rational waste disposal is the civilian cycle - clean beta stream for
short term (1-10K years) decay storage and no fear of spontaneous
critical mass assembly. The beta-contaminated alpha stream goes back
as fuel. There's nothing like gamma-hot fuel pellets to discourage
informal acquisition.
UNKNOWN HAZARDS of fissile material diversion are crap. A few kilos
of esterified benzilic acid plus quinuclidinol will get you a vastly
more interesting low-tech weapon than a potential few kilotonnes that
only occurs with excellent engineering. Destroying a city - London
bltiz, the World Trade Center, Hitler and Stalingrad and Moscow,
Curtis Le May firebombing the whole of Japan - has never been a
fruitful tactic. Driving 8 million people insane with no direct
deaths would be much more telling: Priests and therapists would get
into the act. What a devastating expensive perpetual circus!
As for security... radiation can be remote-scanned, even unto single
gamma photon counting. How effective is the $20 billion/year War on
Drugs at interdicting chemicals?
Uh, Al. Please learn something before you post. Almost every statement
above is flat-out wrong. Waste does not come in *alpha* *beta* and *gamma*
wastes. SOME military feed wastes can possibly be highly alpha - oriented.
Your alpha-emitters are transuranics with huge half-lives. That's
primarily bomb stuff with no beta- or gamma-emission to speak of until
decay daughters appear. Your middle of the Periodic Table (heavy on
lanthanides) fission waste is heavy beta-emitter. That is of short or
medium half-life, massive heat and gamma emission, and mostly of no
use to anybody. Got it so far?
The military fuel cycle isolates clean alpha-emitters for bombs. The
want no beta-emitter conamiantion for personnel exposure to
gamma-emission and additional device heating. The crap they toss is
the beta-emitter stream contaminated with transuranic alpha-emitters.
That stuff must be stored forever - millions of years. Is this clear
in your head?
A civilian fuel cycle would isolate a clean beta-emitter stream and
dump it. In 1000-10,000 years it will mostly decay into
harmlessness. It cannot form a critical mass during storage. The
retained alpha-emitting transuranics are reactor fuel, along with
recycled uranium. They will be contaminated with beta emitters that
make them an extreme exposure hazard. So? Nobody goes into the core
of a nuclear reactor. Got this in your head?
The US is purchasing and tossng tonnes of Soviet plutonium from
retired warheads. This is insanity! $Billions of reactor fuel is
going to be mothballed at a cost more $billions? How stupid can you
get?
But what about the terrorist threat if bomb-grade stuff is used for
civilian reactor fuel?? Kill all the Muslims and get on with
civilization. In fact, we've got a lot of surplus bomb-grade Pu that
has spend the last 40 years decaying Pu-240, -241, and -242. It is
primo small warhead stuffing.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" The Net!
.
|
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| User: "hanson" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 12:34:29 PM |
|
|
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net...
medium half-life, massive heat and gamma emission,
and mostly of no use to anybody.
An interesting anecdote re "radioactive waste and no use
to anybody" happened in the early 70's.
When the portable Co60 x-ray machines got decommissioned
in the early 1970's many of them ended up in the steel scrap
yards in Mexico, from where the metals were recycled and
made into rebars for the construction industry. Jose, who
dismantled the machines and separated the metals, found
a container in each which had these beautiful silvery marbles
inside. Jose, bagged this precious find, took it home & gave them
to his many children to play with. A few days later Jose did not
show up at work. Checking, the Federalis found Jose and his
entire family dead in their home. Some of his children showed
burn marks on their little hands. No big deal was made out of
this and nobody took note of the 6 or 7 containers with 50-60
marbles in each. End of story..........except a few weeks later a
trucker who got his last load of rebars in Mexico for a home
tract construction project in Chicago, fucked up and made a
wrong turn in New Mexico and headed into Los Alamos instead.
There, the radiation road side detectors went off and big time
alarm ensued. --- The Chicago construction project was torn
down and further investigations led to Jose's marbles and the
reason for the unfortunate and tragic demise of that family. RIP.
hanson
------------- original post ---------------
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net...
greywolf42 wrote:
Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA52847.4261FE3A@hate.spam.net...
Current waste disposal is the militiary cycle - clean alpha stream and
waste beta contaminated ith alpha. This makes nice bombs but is
intensely stupid for civilian power reactors. The resulting waste
stream must be stored forever. Bombs are a waste of money and their
total fissile material requirements are small - a few tonnes.
Rational waste disposal is the civilian cycle - clean beta stream for
short term (1-10K years) decay storage and no fear of spontaneous
critical mass assembly. The beta-contaminated alpha stream goes back
as fuel. There's nothing like gamma-hot fuel pellets to discourage
informal acquisition.
UNKNOWN HAZARDS of fissile material diversion are crap. A few kilos
of esterified benzilic acid plus quinuclidinol will get you a vastly
more interesting low-tech weapon than a potential few kilotonnes that
only occurs with excellent engineering. Destroying a city - London
bltiz, the World Trade Center, Hitler and Stalingrad and Moscow,
Curtis Le May firebombing the whole of Japan - has never been a
fruitful tactic. Driving 8 million people insane with no direct
deaths would be much more telling: Priests and therapists would get
into the act. What a devastating expensive perpetual circus!
As for security... radiation can be remote-scanned, even unto single
gamma photon counting. How effective is the $20 billion/year War on
Drugs at interdicting chemicals?
Uh, Al. Please learn something before you post. Almost every statement
above is flat-out wrong. Waste does not come in *alpha* *beta* and *gamma*
wastes. SOME military feed wastes can possibly be highly alpha - oriented.
Your alpha-emitters are transuranics with huge half-lives. That's
primarily bomb stuff with no beta- or gamma-emission to speak of until
decay daughters appear. Your middle of the Periodic Table (heavy on
lanthanides) fission waste is heavy beta-emitter. That is of short or
medium half-life, massive heat and gamma emission, and mostly of no
use to anybody. Got it so far?
The military fuel cycle isolates clean alpha-emitters for bombs. The
want no beta-emitter conamiantion for personnel exposure to
gamma-emission and additional device heating. The crap they toss is
the beta-emitter stream contaminated with transuranic alpha-emitters.
That stuff must be stored forever - millions of years. Is this clear
in your head?
A civilian fuel cycle would isolate a clean beta-emitter stream and
dump it. In 1000-10,000 years it will mostly decay into
harmlessness. It cannot form a critical mass during storage. The
retained alpha-emitting transuranics are reactor fuel, along with
recycled uranium. They will be contaminated with beta emitters that
make them an extreme exposure hazard. So? Nobody goes into the core
of a nuclear reactor. Got this in your head?
The US is purchasing and tossng tonnes of Soviet plutonium from
retired warheads. This is insanity! $Billions of reactor fuel is
going to be mothballed at a cost more $billions? How stupid can you
get?
But what about the terrorist threat if bomb-grade stuff is used for
civilian reactor fuel?? Kill all the Muslims and get on with
civilization. In fact, we've got a lot of surplus bomb-grade Pu that
has spend the last 40 years decaying Pu-240, -241, and -242. It is
primo small warhead stuffing.
Uncle Al
.
|
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| User: "Richard Henry" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 03:33:13 PM |
|
|
"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:Vcxpb.5358$qh2.1613@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net...
medium half-life, massive heat and gamma emission,
and mostly of no use to anybody.
An interesting anecdote re "radioactive waste and no use
to anybody" happened in the early 70's.
When the portable Co60 x-ray machines got decommissioned
in the early 1970's many of them ended up in the steel scrap
yards in Mexico, from where the metals were recycled and
made into rebars for the construction industry. Jose, who
dismantled the machines and separated the metals, found
a container in each which had these beautiful silvery marbles
inside. Jose, bagged this precious find, took it home & gave them
to his many children to play with. A few days later Jose did not
show up at work. Checking, the Federalis found Jose and his
entire family dead in their home. Some of his children showed
burn marks on their little hands. No big deal was made out of
this and nobody took note of the 6 or 7 containers with 50-60
marbles in each. End of story..........except a few weeks later a
trucker who got his last load of rebars in Mexico for a home
tract construction project in Chicago, fucked up and made a
wrong turn in New Mexico and headed into Los Alamos instead.
There, the radiation road side detectors went off and big time
alarm ensued. --- The Chicago construction project was torn
down and further investigations led to Jose's marbles and the
reason for the unfortunate and tragic demise of that family. RIP.
hanson
Hanson's facts vary a bit from the established history. For example, "Jose"
was actually named Vicente, and neither he nor his children died. Here is a
better relation of the story, courtesy of a google search:
http://www.window.state.tx.us/border/ch09/cobalto.html
.
|
|
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| User: "hanson" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 05:58:49 PM |
|
|
"Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com> wrote in message
news:BQzpb.98$mb5.23@fed1read02...
"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:Vcxpb.5358$qh2.1613@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net...
medium half-life, massive heat and gamma emission,
and mostly of no use to anybody.
An interesting anecdote re "radioactive waste and no use
to anybody" happened in the early 70's.
When the portable Co60 x-ray machines got decommissioned
in the early 1970's many of them ended up in the steel scrap
yards in Mexico, from where the metals were recycled and
made into rebars for the construction industry. Jose, who
dismantled the machines and separated the metals, found
a container in each which had these beautiful silvery marbles
inside. Jose, bagged this precious find, took it home & gave them
to his many children to play with. A few days later Jose did not
show up at work. Checking, the Federalis found Jose and his
entire family dead in their home. Some of his children showed
burn marks on their little hands. No big deal was made out of
this and nobody took note of the 6 or 7 containers with 50-60
marbles in each. End of story..........except a few weeks later a
trucker who got his last load of rebars in Mexico for a home
tract construction project in Chicago, fucked up and made a
wrong turn in New Mexico and headed into Los Alamos instead.
There, the radiation road side detectors went off and big time
alarm ensued. --- The Chicago construction project was torn
down and further investigations led to Jose's marbles and the
reason for the unfortunate and tragic demise of that family. RIP.
hanson
Hanson's facts vary a bit from the established history. For example, "Jose"
was actually named Vicente, and neither he nor his children died. Here is a
better relation of the story, courtesy of a google search:
http://www.window.state.tx.us/border/ch09/cobalto.html
Richie, you are a good student. You are finally paying attention
to me. Now, be grateful and consider that you'd never known this
story would it not have been for the bone I tossed you. Besides, how
come that you believe an account that comes from the government
more than me? Don't you know that governments, from the municipal
ones up, are allowed to lie, allowed to lie.....by law.....in the interest
of public safety and the greater good? --- Don't be a mooch, Richie.
It was some 2600 years ago that Gautamo Buddha exclaimed:
"Brosers, do NOT believe because it is written in an official text, or
'cause a man of authority said so, or because it is tradition. Believe
only what you yourself judge to be true."
Now, go and make a google search, Richie, come back and tell us
what Buddha "actually" said and "exactly" in what year and where.
See, how things can be fun.
ahahahaha........ahahahanson
.
|
|
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| User: "Richard Henry" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 06:45:29 PM |
|
|
"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:ZYBpb.5885$qh2.4273@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com> wrote in message
news:BQzpb.98$mb5.23@fed1read02...
"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:Vcxpb.5358$qh2.1613@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net...
medium half-life, massive heat and gamma emission,
and mostly of no use to anybody.
An interesting anecdote re "radioactive waste and no use
to anybody" happened in the early 70's.
When the portable Co60 x-ray machines got decommissioned
in the early 1970's many of them ended up in the steel scrap
yards in Mexico, from where the metals were recycled and
made into rebars for the construction industry. Jose, who
dismantled the machines and separated the metals, found
a container in each which had these beautiful silvery marbles
inside. Jose, bagged this precious find, took it home & gave them
to his many children to play with. A few days later Jose did not
show up at work. Checking, the Federalis found Jose and his
entire family dead in their home. Some of his children showed
burn marks on their little hands. No big deal was made out of
this and nobody took note of the 6 or 7 containers with 50-60
marbles in each. End of story..........except a few weeks later a
trucker who got his last load of rebars in Mexico for a home
tract construction project in Chicago, fucked up and made a
wrong turn in New Mexico and headed into Los Alamos instead.
There, the radiation road side detectors went off and big time
alarm ensued. --- The Chicago construction project was torn
down and further investigations led to Jose's marbles and the
reason for the unfortunate and tragic demise of that family. RIP.
hanson
Hanson's facts vary a bit from the established history. For example,
"Jose"
was actually named Vicente, and neither he nor his children died. Here
is a
better relation of the story, courtesy of a google search:
http://www.window.state.tx.us/border/ch09/cobalto.html
Richie, you are a good student. You are finally paying attention
to me. Now, be grateful and consider that you'd never known this
story would it not have been for the bone I tossed you.
I've known this story for years. Rather than expecting you to believe my
memory of it, I found a website account with 5 minutes of google.
In the age of google, ignorance can be embarrassing.
Besides, how
come that you believe an account that comes from the government
more than me?
Snicker.
Don't you know that governments, from the municipal
ones up, are allowed to lie, allowed to lie.....by law.....in the interest
of public safety and the greater good? --- Don't be a mooch, Richie.
So can you point to a rebuttal website to back up your version of the
radioactive rebar story? Complete with dead Jose and his kids, and an
aborted Chicago construction project?
It was some 2600 years ago that Gautamo Buddha exclaimed:
"Brosers, do NOT believe because it is written in an official text, or
'cause a man of authority said so, or because it is tradition. Believe
only what you yourself judge to be true.
Now, go and make a google search, Richie, come back and tell us
what Buddha "actually" said and "exactly" in what year and where.
See, how things can be fun.
ahahahaha........ahahahanson
I'm not interested in your games. How about a round of internet backgammon?
.
|
|
|
| User: "hanson" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 09:08:22 PM |
|
|
"Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com> wrote in message
news:RECpb.124$mb5.90@fed1read02...
"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
"Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com> wrote in message
"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net...
medium half-life, massive heat and gamma emission,
and mostly of no use to anybody.
An interesting anecdote re "radioactive waste and no use
to anybody" happened in the early 70's.
When the portable Co60 x-ray machines got decommissioned
in the early 1970's many of them ended up in the steel scrap
yards in Mexico, from where the metals were recycled and
made into rebars for the construction industry. Jose, who
dismantled the machines and separated the metals, found
a container in each which had these beautiful silvery marbles
inside. Jose, bagged this precious find, took it home & gave them
to his many children to play with. A few days later Jose did not
show up at work. Checking, the Federalis found Jose and his
entire family dead in their home. Some of his children showed
burn marks on their little hands. No big deal was made out of
this and nobody took note of the 6 or 7 containers with 50-60
marbles in each. End of story..........except a few weeks later a
trucker who got his last load of rebars in Mexico for a home
tract construction project in Chicago, fucked up and made a
wrong turn in New Mexico and headed into Los Alamos instead.
There, the radiation road side detectors went off and big time
alarm ensued. --- The Chicago construction project was torn
down and further investigations led to Jose's marbles and the
reason for the unfortunate and tragic demise of that family. RIP.
hanson
Hanson's facts vary a bit from the established history.
For example, "Jose" was actually named Vicente,
and neither he nor his children died. Here is a
better relation of the story, courtesy of a google search:
http://www.window.state.tx.us/border/ch09/cobalto.html
Richie, you are a good student. You are finally paying attention
to me. Now, be grateful and consider that you'd never known this
story would it not have been for the bone I tossed you.
I've known this story for years. Rather than expecting you to believe my
memory of it, I found a website account with 5 minutes of google.
In the age of google, ignorance can be embarrassing.
Besides, how come that you believe an
account that comes from the government
more than me?
Snicker.
Don't you know that governments, from the municipal
ones up, are allowed to lie, allowed to lie.....by law.....in the interest
of public safety and the greater good? --- Don't be a mooch, Richie.
So can you point to a rebuttal website to back up your version of the
radioactive rebar story? Complete with dead Jose and his kids, and an
aborted Chicago construction project?
It was some 2600 years ago that Gautamo Buddha exclaimed:
"Brosers, do NOT believe because it is written in an official text, or
'cause a man of authority said so, or because it is tradition. Believe
only what you yourself judge to be true.
Now, go and make a google search, Richie, come back and tell us
what Buddha "actually" said and "exactly" in what year and where.
See, how things can be fun.
ahahahaha........ahahahanson
I'm not interested in your games.
Well, then that settles it. Don't follow me around like a dog.
How about a round of internet backgammon?
Heh? ...first not interested and then an invitation in the next line.
You must be some poor terribly lonely old geezer, Richie.
But Richie, go get somebody else to play with.
ahahaha........ahahahanson
.
|
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| User: "Mark Thorson" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 07:48:09 PM |
|
|
Richard Henry wrote:
Hanson's facts vary a bit from the established history. For example, "Jose"
was actually named Vicente, and neither he nor his children died. Here is a
better relation of the story, courtesy of a google search:
http://www.window.state.tx.us/border/ch09/cobalto.html
The part about the children and the deaths was probably
merged from another incident, which happened in Brazil:
http://www.nbc-med.org/SiteContent/MedRef/OnlineRef/CaseStudies/csgoiania.html
I guess when Hanson is speaking off the top of his head,
he should not be considered a reliable source of factual
information.
.
|
|
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| User: "Richard Henry" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 08:59:11 PM |
|
|
"Mark Thorson" <nospam@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:3FA705B1.DB57AD58@sonic.net...
Richard Henry wrote:
Hanson's facts vary a bit from the established history. For example,
"Jose"
was actually named Vicente, and neither he nor his children died. Here
is a
better relation of the story, courtesy of a google search:
http://www.window.state.tx.us/border/ch09/cobalto.html
The part about the children and the deaths was probably
merged from another incident, which happened in Brazil:
http://www.nbc-med.org/SiteContent/MedRef/OnlineRef/CaseStudies/csgoiania.ht
ml
Still no Jose.
I guess when Hanson is speaking off the top of his head,
he should not be considered a reliable source of factual
information.
How can we tell when he is not speaking off the top of his head?
.
|
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| User: "Gavin Whittaker" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
04 Nov 2003 03:52:14 AM |
|
|
In sci.chem Richard Henry <rphenry@home.com> writted:
: How can we tell when he is not speaking off the top of his head?
You can't. When he's not speaking off the top of his head, he's speaking
out of his arse. There is no perceptible difference in the message.
.
|
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| User: "hanson" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
04 Nov 2003 09:43:19 PM |
|
|
"Green, self-admitted Plonker Gavin Whittaker" <ah05@holyrood.ed.ac.uk>
wanted the world to know that he extruded under Herculean strains
another green ***** in his message news:bo7sse$8t2$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
insisting that
he's speaking out of his arse.
There is no perceptible difference in the message.
His highly intellectual post has a niveau achieved by plum pudding,
its news value compares to that of a toilet flush, and he has
demonstrated his phenomenal acumen for plonking. Nevertheless,
PGW earns a faint chuckle for his primordial efforts, but, me being
magnanimous will bless him with a roaring
AHAhahahhaha.......ahahahahanson
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 09:06:26 PM |
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"Mark Thorson" <nospam@sonic.net> wrote in message
news:3FA705B1.DB57AD58@sonic.net...
Richard Henry wrote:
Hanson's facts vary a bit from the established history. For example, "Jose"
was actually named Vicente, and neither he nor his children died. Here is a
better relation of the story, courtesy of a google search:
http://www.window.state.tx.us/border/ch09/cobalto.html
The part about the children and the deaths was probably
merged from another incident, which happened in Brazil:
http://www.nbc-med.org/SiteContent/MedRef/OnlineRef/CaseStudies/csgoiania.html
I guess when Hanson is speaking off the top of his head,
he should not be considered a reliable source of factual
information.
Mark, you are a man of class and insight. You pegged me right, dude.
News groups are ENTERTAINMENT for me. I love to ***** with posters
who are so gullible and pathetic and so full of conviction that they believe
that when something is printed on a web site or in a newspaper it
happens to be fact and truth. And then comes the kicker. All they really
look for is confirmation from someone to support them in their delusion
that THEIR own version of "facts" is shared by someone else and hence
it becomes "real fact" and "truth" for them in their mind. ..ahahahaha.....
This type of poster prey for fun can easily be spotted by their habit of
asking: "Can you give a reference?" .....The dumb bastards do not have
the critical mindset to reason for themselves and judge when and whether
someone is pulling their leg ..... and instead, they have to begin with
whining and arguing..... ...... that's when the fun for me begins ....
......ahahahaha........ahahanson
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| User: "Mark Thorson" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
04 Nov 2003 02:29:04 PM |
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hanson wrote:
Mark, you are a man of class and insight. You pegged me right, dude.
News groups are ENTERTAINMENT for me. I love to ***** with posters
who are so gullible and pathetic and so full of conviction that they believe
that when something is printed on a web site or in a newspaper it
happens to be fact and truth.
So everything you post is a troll?
This is not acceptable behavior in the sci newsgroups.
Please go away.
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
04 Nov 2003 09:43:21 PM |
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The verklempte "Taliban Mark Thorson" <nospam@sonic.net>
redirected his message, with vain hope as it were, into alt.test
news:3FA80C69.C51D0B0B@sonic.net... out of fear from an
response to his heart breaking and deeply emotional begging:
Please go away.
His aeolian request is part and parcel of a composition
that will put his post into the annals of the Usenet under
the rubric of.... Intellectual level: F, Entertainment value: 0
His titanic efforts though will elicit a faint chuckle, at best,
but, me being magnanimous will bless him with a roaring
AHAhahahhaha.......ahahahahanson
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| User: "greywolf42" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 11:31:40 PM |
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hanson <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:Vcxpb.5358$qh2.1613@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net...
medium half-life, massive heat and gamma emission,
and mostly of no use to anybody.
An interesting anecdote re "radioactive waste and no use
to anybody" happened in the early 70's.
When the portable Co60 x-ray machines got decommissioned
in the early 1970's many of them ended up in the steel scrap
yards in Mexico, from where the metals were recycled and
made into rebars for the construction industry. Jose, who
dismantled the machines and separated the metals, found
a container in each which had these beautiful silvery marbles
inside. Jose, bagged this precious find, took it home & gave them
to his many children to play with. A few days later Jose did not
show up at work. Checking, the Federalis found Jose and his
entire family dead in their home. Some of his children showed
burn marks on their little hands. No big deal was made out of
this and nobody took note of the 6 or 7 containers with 50-60
marbles in each. End of story..........except a few weeks later a
trucker who got his last load of rebars in Mexico for a home
tract construction project in Chicago, fucked up and made a
wrong turn in New Mexico and headed into Los Alamos instead.
There, the radiation road side detectors went off and big time
alarm ensued. --- The Chicago construction project was torn
down and further investigations led to Jose's marbles and the
reason for the unfortunate and tragic demise of that family. RIP.
You've mixed up and confabulated three separate events. None of which
involved radioactive waste.
See Richard Henry's post for the correct story of the Co-60 source
(abandoned medical source). The Brazil mess (Thorson's post) was Cs-137
(pretty blue paste from abandoned medical facility). The truck heading into
Los Alamos was pure U.S. Some activated metal was recycled into rebar --
perfectly legal at the time. But when the load set off portal alarms going
into Los Alamos (IIRC), the load was stopped. Regulations have since been
changed.
Screwups in the commercial nuclear industry (such as the above) are often
rabidly reported, and *action* taken by 'concerned' politicians. It's the
governmental screwups that tend to be permanently whitewashed.
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
04 Nov 2003 12:39:51 AM |
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"greywolf42" <mingstb@marsim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:vqeej7iahfrjc2@corp.supernews.com...
hanson <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:Vcxpb.5358$qh2.1613@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net...
medium half-life, massive heat and gamma emission,
and mostly of no use to anybody.
An interesting anecdote re "radioactive waste and no use
to anybody" happened in the early 70's.
When the portable Co60 x-ray machines got decommissioned
in the early 1970's many of them ended up in the steel scrap
yards in Mexico, from where the metals were recycled and
made into rebars for the construction industry. Jose, who
dismantled the machines and separated the metals, found
a container in each which had these beautiful silvery marbles
inside. Jose, bagged this precious find, took it home & gave them
to his many children to play with. A few days later Jose did not
show up at work. Checking, the Federalis found Jose and his
entire family dead in their home. Some of his children showed
burn marks on their little hands. No big deal was made out of
this and nobody took note of the 6 or 7 containers with 50-60
marbles in each. End of story..........except a few weeks later a
trucker who got his last load of rebars in Mexico for a home
tract construction project in Chicago, fucked up and made a
wrong turn in New Mexico and headed into Los Alamos instead.
There, the radiation road side detectors went off and big time
alarm ensued. --- The Chicago construction project was torn
down and further investigations led to Jose's marbles and the
reason for the unfortunate and tragic demise of that family. RIP.
You've mixed up and confabulated three separate events. None of which
involved radioactive waste.
See Richard Henry's post for the correct story of the Co-60 source
(abandoned medical source). The Brazil mess (Thorson's post) was Cs-137
(pretty blue paste from abandoned medical facility). The truck heading into
Los Alamos was pure U.S. Some activated metal was recycled into rebar --
perfectly legal at the time. But when the load set off portal alarms going
into Los Alamos (IIRC), the load was stopped. Regulations have since been
changed.
Screwups in the commercial nuclear industry (such as the above) are often
rabidly reported, and *action* taken by 'concerned' politicians. It's the
governmental screwups that tend to be permanently whitewashed.
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
AHAHHAahaha.......this thread is so great.
There I tell/post a story, and ** I point out, at the outset** that it
is an **anecdote**, whereby anecdote dictionates as "a usually
short narrative of an interesting, amusing, or biographical incident"
a narrative, which for the peculiar sticklers means to be, " a
representation in art of an event or story" .... all per Webster.
So, I post that anecdote and immediately it is read with the scrutiny
and earnestness as if I had issued a death sentence, a papal decree,
passed a regulation of a new law or gave a Nobel prize presentation.
Thank you guys for hanging onto every word I said. I had now idea
that you farts take me that serious. In the future, please don't.
To me, News-Grouping is ENTERTAINMENT. Many times there are
a half a dozen execs in my office having fun with concocting a
response to a post.
Tomorrow morning, first break, I will call all my employees
together and present you guys who responded to my posts in
these 2 current threads Re: radioactive waste and
Re: Conversion of red phosphorus to white phosphorus
as commendable and outstanding premier role models and finest
examples of how employees should pay attention to what the boss
says/has said. You guys were and are the best.
Besides, thanks for all the fun.
hanson et al
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| User: "Richard Henry" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
04 Nov 2003 12:49:31 AM |
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"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:XQHpb.6845$qh2.1123@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Thank you guys for hanging onto every word I said. I had now idea
that you farts take me that serious. In the future, please don't.
To me, News-Grouping is ENTERTAINMENT.
I agree. I am very entertained at your current discomfort.
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
04 Nov 2003 01:26:53 AM |
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"Richard Henry" <rphenry@home.com> wrote in message
news:8_Hpb.184$mb5.69@fed1read02...
"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:XQHpb.6845$qh2.1123@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Thank you guys for hanging onto every word I said. I had now idea
that you farts take me that serious. In the future, please don't.
To me, News-Grouping is ENTERTAINMENT.
I agree. I am very entertained at your current discomfort.
Good dog, Richie, keep barking. I know you miss me, you little mutt.
Go ahead, have the last bark. I know that this is very important to you.
All my cyber mutts are like you.
ahahahaha.......ahahahanson
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| User: "Richard Henry" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
04 Nov 2003 02:11:18 AM |
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"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:XQHpb.6845$qh2.1123@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Tomorrow morning, first break, I will call all my employees
together and present you guys who responded to my posts in
these 2 current threads Re: radioactive waste and
Re: Conversion of red phosphorus to white phosphorus
as commendable and outstanding premier role models and finest
examples of how employees should pay attention to what the boss
says/has said.
I'll bet they'll all tell you the boss is hilarious.
.
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| User: "hanson" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
04 Nov 2003 09:41:45 PM |
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Self promoter "Richard Henry <rphenry@home.com> is really
not sure what to do, but he seems to be positively pissed that
he can't milk the insurance company with his "almost- victim"
status only, for nonexistent damages by the CA fires, which
leaves him complaining in his post that
I'll bet they'll all tell you the boss is hilarious.
For this cunning con, but failed humor, to stroke and milk the
insurers I could give almost-victim Richie a faint, disapproving
chuckle, but instead I will bless him with a roaring laughter in an
attempt to influence him not to execute his shady dreams.....
AHhahahaha.......ahahahahanson
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| User: "Richard Henry" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
04 Nov 2003 10:43:03 PM |
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"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:Zj_pb.188$Z25.96@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Self promoter "Richard Henry <rphenry@home.com> is really
not sure what to do, but he seems to be positively pissed that
he can't milk the insurance company with his "almost- victim"
status only, for nonexistent damages by the CA fires, which
leaves him complaining in his post that
I'll bet they'll all tell you the boss is hilarious.
For this cunning con, but failed humor, to stroke and milk the
insurers I could give almost-victim Richie a faint, disapproving
chuckle, but instead I will bless him with a roaring laughter in an
attempt to influence him not to execute his shady dreams.....
AHhahahaha.......ahahahahanson
One of the items I grabbed preparing for evacuatuion was my checkbook. As
I put it in the car, I checked the register to make sure I had paid the
annual insurance bill.
.
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| User: "\formerly" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 11:50:45 PM |
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Dear greywolf42:
"greywolf42" <mingstb@marsim-ss.com> wrote in message
news:vqeej7iahfrjc2@corp.supernews.com...
hanson <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:Vcxpb.5358$qh2.1613@newsread4.news.pas.earthlink.net...
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net...
medium half-life, massive heat and gamma emission,
and mostly of no use to anybody.
An interesting anecdote re "radioactive waste and no use
to anybody" happened in the early 70's.
When the portable Co60 x-ray machines got decommissioned
in the early 1970's many of them ended up in the steel scrap
yards in Mexico, from where the metals were recycled and
made into rebars for the construction industry. Jose, who
dismantled the machines and separated the metals, found
a container in each which had these beautiful silvery marbles
inside. Jose, bagged this precious find, took it home & gave them
to his many children to play with. A few days later Jose did not
show up at work. Checking, the Federalis found Jose and his
entire family dead in their home. Some of his children showed
burn marks on their little hands. No big deal was made out of
this and nobody took note of the 6 or 7 containers with 50-60
marbles in each. End of story..........except a few weeks later a
trucker who got his last load of rebars in Mexico for a home
tract construction project in Chicago, fucked up and made a
wrong turn in New Mexico and headed into Los Alamos instead.
There, the radiation road side detectors went off and big time
alarm ensued. --- The Chicago construction project was torn
down and further investigations led to Jose's marbles and the
reason for the unfortunate and tragic demise of that family. RIP.
You've mixed up and confabulated three separate events. None of which
involved radioactive waste.
See Richard Henry's post for the correct story of the Co-60 source
(abandoned medical source). The Brazil mess (Thorson's post) was Cs-137
(pretty blue paste from abandoned medical facility). The truck heading
into
Los Alamos was pure U.S. Some activated metal was recycled into rebar --
perfectly legal at the time. But when the load set off portal alarms
going
into Los Alamos (IIRC), the load was stopped. Regulations have since
been
changed.
Actually (forgive the quality of the site):
URL:http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/20058
rebar was formed from metal salvaged in Juraez, and also in Taiwan:
URL:http://www.vanderbilt.edu/radsafe/0107/msg00220.html
Screwups in the commercial nuclear industry (such as the above) are often
rabidly reported, and *action* taken by 'concerned' politicians. It's
the
governmental screwups that tend to be permanently whitewashed.
Like when they tried to use Cs-137 (reclaimed from fissile waste products,
a laudable use) to gamma sterilize disposable medical products. Packaged
in relatively thin metal containers, and dropped into a pool of water when
not in service. Thermal fatigue, and a material that can be easily
dissolved in water. When they discovered it, a lot of product has to be
disposed of, as the stuff had splashed *everywhere*.
David A. Smith
.
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| User: "greywolf42" |
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| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 03:13:54 PM |
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Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net...
greywolf42 wrote:
Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3FA52847.4261FE3A@hate.spam.net...
{snip higher levels}
Current waste disposal is the militiary cycle - clean alpha stream and
waste beta contaminated ith alpha. This makes nice bombs but is
intensely stupid for civilian power reactors. The resulting waste
stream must be stored forever. Bombs are a waste of money and their
total fissile material requirements are small - a few tonnes.
Rational waste disposal is the civilian cycle - clean beta stream for
short term (1-10K years) decay storage and no fear of spontaneous
critical mass assembly. The beta-contaminated alpha stream goes back
as fuel. There's nothing like gamma-hot fuel pellets to discourage
informal acquisition.
UNKNOWN HAZARDS of fissile material diversion are crap. A few kilos
of esterified benzilic acid plus quinuclidinol will get you a vastly
more interesting low-tech weapon than a potential few kilotonnes that
only occurs with excellent engineering. Destroying a city - London
bltiz, the World Trade Center, Hitler and Stalingrad and Moscow,
Curtis Le May firebombing the whole of Japan - has never been a
fruitful tactic. Driving 8 million people insane with no direct
deaths would be much more telling: Priests and therapists would get
into the act. What a devastating expensive perpetual circus!
As for security... radiation can be remote-scanned, even unto single
gamma photon counting. How effective is the $20 billion/year War on
Drugs at interdicting chemicals?
Uh, Al. Please learn something before you post. Almost every statement
above is flat-out wrong. Waste does not come in *alpha* *beta* and
*gamma*
wastes. SOME military feed wastes can possibly be highly alpha -
oriented.
Your alpha-emitters are transuranics with huge half-lives.
Sigh. I see you ignored my suggestion about learning something about a
subject before posting. Well, I'll address a few of your misconceptions.
Not all transuranics are alpha emitters. Not all alpha emitters are
transuranics. Not all transuranics have huge half lives.
Your position is one similar to a set of lawyers that I had to deal with
when I worked at the NRC Division of Waste Management. All they knew was
that somebody had once coined the term "TRU" (transuranic) waste -- and they
attempted to use those words in crafting legal limitations. They didn't
bother to read what was contained in (ERDA-defined) TRU wastes, and also
didn't bother to read up on what the actual hazards were.
I'll summarize in that no waste classification scheme uses the distinction
between alpha-emitting, beta-emitting, and gamma-emitting wastes. Primarily
because waste isn't quality-controlled. (obviously)
That's
primarily bomb stuff with no beta- or gamma-emission to speak of until
decay daughters appear.
Which is almost immedieately, because of the short half-lives of some of the
isotopes of plutonium and americium. Plus, some of these isotopes include
beta/gamma emitters.
Your middle of the Periodic Table (heavy on
lanthanides) fission waste is heavy beta-emitter.
That's beta/gamma. There are a relatively few isotopes that emit very low
energy gamma rays. But most of these are gamma emitters, too.
That is of short or medium half-life,
Or long half-life.
massive heat and gamma emission, and mostly of no
use to anybody. Got it so far?
Actually, we use those "wastes" for many things. Most of the medical
isotopes used in the world (i.e. Cobalt and cesium sources) are from this
source.
The military fuel cycle isolates clean alpha-emitters for bombs.
Well, yes. But the wastes aren't 'clean.' The wastes are the residues left
after the 'clean' has been removed.
The
want no beta-emitter conamiantion for personnel exposure to
gamma-emission and additional device heating.
Yes. But we're discussing the waste left over.....
The crap they toss is
the beta-emitter stream contaminated with transuranic alpha-emitters.
Well, yes. That's why no one classifies by simply alpha, beta or gamma.
It's always all mixed together. Varying relative amounts, but one
classifies based on radiologic hazard. Not on philosophy.
That stuff must be stored forever - millions of years.
Why? How did you come up with your requirement? Don't you realize that all
of this "feed", comes out of the groud to begin with? Uranium has a
half-life of billions of years.
Is this clear in your head?
Your ego is clear. Also your ignorance.
A civilian fuel cycle would isolate a clean beta-emitter stream and
dump it.
"Clean" waste? LOL!
In 1000-10,000 years it will mostly decay into harmlessness.
What's your criteria for "harmless?" Why not apply that to 'military'
waste?
For your information, the spent fuel from nuclear reactors includes
transuranics. And some of the activated materials from the operation of the
plant (i.e. NOT from the fuel) also have multi-thousane year half-lives.
It cannot form a critical mass during storage.
Nor can the TRU wastes. There's this little thing about density and
dilution. Of course, if you refined high-enriched wastes, you might
eventually get enough for a critical mass. But it's waste precisely because
such refinement is either horribly expensive or downright impossible. If it
was easy to do, the transuranics would be recovered before the waste was
dumped.
The retained alpha-emitting transuranics are reactor fuel,
Spent commercial reactor fuel is no longer reactor fuel. It is waste.
along with recycled uranium.
There is no 'recycled uranium' in the US. Perhaps the French are still
recycling.
They will be contaminated with beta emitters that
make them an extreme exposure hazard. So? Nobody goes into the core
of a nuclear reactor. Got this in your head?
Wrong again. After a reactor is shut down, it is 'decommissioned,'
eventually to be dismantled. All that spent fuel and activated reactor
materials must be disposed of, as waste. This has been done several times
in the U.S., already.
The US is purchasing and tossng tonnes of Soviet plutonium from
retired warheads. This is insanity!
You actually believe the U.S is "tossing" the plutonium? LOL!
$Billions of reactor fuel is
going to be mothballed at a cost more $billions? How stupid can you
get?
How simple can you be, to believe that the U.S. military won't be using that
plutonium? The U.S. does not currently have a plutonium-producing reactor
(I believe the last was Hanford-N).
Why do you think that the U.S. requires commercial reactors to give their
spent fuel only to the US government? And why do you think that the US
government will only 'retrievably store' said spent fuel?
But what about the terrorist threat if bomb-grade stuff is used for
civilian reactor fuel??
Civilian reactor fuel is not bomb-grade. As soon as this 'bomb-grade
material' would be mixed with U-238 (a technical requirement in US reactor
designs), it is no longer bomb-grade.
Kill all the Muslims and get on with civilization.
Might I remind you that Muslims invented the scientific method (Al Haytham).
And Moors in Toledo were the source of the Renaissance? Christians are one
of the worst banes of civilization on the planet (crusades, witch-burning,
the Inquisition, conquistadores, slaves, oil for Jesus, etc, etc ...)
Might I suggest you broaden your scope of information gathering to something
other than internal disinformation ops?
In fact, we've got a lot of surplus bomb-grade Pu that
has spend the last 40 years decaying Pu-240, -241, and -242. It is
primo small warhead stuffing.
Perhaps we should have the military get rid of it -- along with all our
other weapons of mass destruction. Then we might rejoin the civilized
world.
--
greywolf42
ubi dubium ibi libertas
{remove planet for return e-mail}
.
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| User: "Steve Harris" |
|
| Title: Re: radioactive waste |
03 Nov 2003 03:46:02 PM |
|
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Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message news:<3FA56BA6.A6A93803@hate.spam.net>...
In fact, we've got a lot of surplus bomb-grade Pu that
has spend the last 40 years decaying Pu-240, -241, and -242. It is
primo small warhead stuffing.
It might have less Pu-241 (half life 14 y). I imagine that's beta
decay half life, though. It would have to be spontaneus fission of
Pu-241 that produces stray neutrons to give weapons problems. What
makes you think it's any worse than Pu-239?
Other half lives of the higher neutron Pu's are too long for 40 years
to make any difference in how much of them there are in a warhead:
Pu-239 (the primary weapon isotope) has half-life 24,000 y.
Pu-240 half-life 6500 y.
Pu-242 half-life 376,000 y.
Pu-238 (the one best known for spacecraft radioisotope generator use)
has a half life of 88 y, but due to it's low neutron content I rather
doubt it does enough spontaneous neutron production to make any
difference. That short half life is alpha emission.
SBH
.
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