Science > Physics > Re: $1 MILLION REWARD for a simple paper in PHYSICS -- CONTROLLED DEMOLITION HOAX of 9/11
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Science > Physics |
| User: |
"galathaea" |
| Date: |
30 Sep 2006 02:03:22 AM |
| Object: |
Re: $1 MILLION REWARD for a simple paper in PHYSICS -- CONTROLLED DEMOLITION HOAX of 9/11 |
Phlip wrote:
Ancient_Hacker wrote:
Since the reports of "melted steel" didnt seem to indicate a quantity,
this "inconsistency" has been cleared up, at least to the amount of
stated above. I assume if they saw anything like 2 million Kg of
molten steel they would have mentioned it.
...
Compare it to the Empire State Building, which was very conservatively
built, many say waay overbuilt.
The Nova special covered this very well. The WTC towers competed with the
"forest of columns" in the ESB office space by pushing all the columns out
to the walls, and in to a support frame around the core. The office space
was 1 acre wide, with no interior columns.
The second plane hit at an angle, destroying two sides of the columnade of
walls, and dousing all the floor trusses with burning feul. When they melted
thru, you can see the first floor collapse, just under the impact site,
setting off the cascade. Because each floor had wide open areas without
columns, these simply pancaked down, a phenomenon seen in many building
collapses.
The first plane hit dead center, completely destroying everything around the
central column, and filling that with burning feul. So the central column
failed, imploding the building, just like controlled demolition.
To "controlled demolish" the towers the same way, you would have to wire the
exact floors the planes would hit. Else things would look too fishy. And
note when the first tower failed, its walls cascaded forward, completely
unlike a controlled demolition! So one tower appear to implode, and the
other fell foward. That doesn't sound very "controlled" to me.
When you conspire, the closer to the truth the better. Wiring a building for
destruction if you already know planes will hit it adds too many variables
to control. You can't just "confiscate all the cameras and disappear a few
witnesses", like you could in the 1960s.
but why are the towers
even worthy of much speculation?
many people saw planes hit them
except for some of the dynamic details
modelling a collapse for them is not difficult
the wtc7 building is the one showing truly new behaviors
things not seen previously in natural collapses
this is the scientifically interesting building
no previous steel frame has completely collapsed in this manner
models show that steel skeletons
are extremely sturdy
and are much more likely to fall over still mostly intact
there are plenty of examples of steel frame structures
hit by collapsing neighbors
and / or burning
thats why i like this contest:
if no one can submit a valid model of the wtc7 collapse
(in my evaluation)
it is interesting and a little creepy
if a model explains the events well
it will likely involve a new phenomena
the contest forces explanations
of exotic phenomena
and could potentially lead to new engineering solutions
for building safety
i have tried to build such models
from a game physics engine i have worked on
(in OCaml using openGL and very basic statics and dynamics engines)
and had very little luck
a friend of mine has actually sent emails to the NIST
asking for CVS access to their simulations
and she has never received a response
i suspect they have also had difficulty on this building
which is why their report is delayed
putting some prize money behind this
could stimulate some insights in statics and structural science
(i just wish they didn't jump on all the other noise
that circulates the information cloud around the events
and obscures the truly interesting questions)
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galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
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| User: "Phlip" |
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| Title: Re: $1 MILLION REWARD for a simple paper in PHYSICS -- CONTROLLED DEMOLITION HOAX of 9/11 |
30 Sep 2006 08:16:29 AM |
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galathaea wrote:
but why are the towers
even worthy of much speculation?
many people saw planes hit them
That is why: The disinformation campaign is focusing on the spectacle. Not
the minor details, like "why did the fifth hijacking team get away?"
A victim of the disinformation campaign tried to tell me that the second
plane to hit a WTC tower was designed to hit it in a way that produced a
spectacular fireball, as if this detail were planned for some effect, such
as psychological warfare.
If the plane had produced some other random effect, the disinformation
campaign would be promoting that as some kind of planned effect.
the wtc7 building is the one showing truly new behaviors
things not seen previously in natural collapses
Previous natural collapses didn't happen to a building whose foundations
were completely destroyed by huge buildings falling into the original
construction site excavation. When the towers fell, they undermined that
building. So it appears to fall in a peculiar manner; being sucked out from
below.
Note that the current hole at Ground Zero reproduces the shape of the
original excavations.
a friend of mine has actually sent emails to the NIST
asking for CVS access to their simulations
and she has never received a response
The disinformation campaign also has the pleasant benefit of overloading our
stressed government agencies with all kinds of unwise requests.
--
Phlip
http://www.greencheese.us/ZeekLand <-- NOT a blog!!!
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| User: "galathaea" |
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| Title: Re: $1 MILLION REWARD for a simple paper in PHYSICS -- CONTROLLED DEMOLITION HOAX of 9/11 |
01 Oct 2006 06:34:41 PM |
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Phlip wrote:
galathaea wrote:
but why are the towers
even worthy of much speculation?
many people saw planes hit them
That is why: The disinformation campaign is focusing on the spectacle. Not
the minor details, like "why did the fifth hijacking team get away?"
A victim of the disinformation campaign tried to tell me that the second
plane to hit a WTC tower was designed to hit it in a way that produced a
spectacular fireball, as if this detail were planned for some effect, such
as psychological warfare.
If the plane had produced some other random effect, the disinformation
campaign would be promoting that as some kind of planned effect.
yes
but
that data point is not unexpected
a fireball is expected
two towering architectures
struck with a massive transverse attack
can be expected to suffer heavy structural damage
possibly to collapse
expected things are what science already models well
the wtc7 building is the one showing truly new behaviors
things not seen previously in natural collapses
Previous natural collapses didn't happen to a building whose foundations
were completely destroyed by huge buildings falling into the original
construction site excavation.
actually
there are many historical examples of steel-frame structural damage
in the form of nearby buildings collapsing upon them
case studies abound from major earthquakes
along the pacific ring of fire
and mediterranean faults
sometimes even toppling into each other
but the steel skeletons are very rigid things
if you look only at the skeleton of wtc7
and remove structural beams from a 20 story scar along its southwest
face
and somehow reduce the strength of all the remaining steel 50%
it is still requires a very unlikely load to induce a fault
and standard models of collapse
would seem to show only a partial collapse likely
unless a chained progressive collapse ensues
those types of collapse look very different
occuring in several definable stages
and not as uniform as seen
When the towers fell, they undermined that
building. So it appears to fall in a peculiar manner; being sucked out from
below.
Note that the current hole at Ground Zero reproduces the shape of the
original excavations.
then perhaps some good models can be built of this hypothesis
if one can show that some typeof application of forces from underneath
can cause complete collapse of the loaded and weakened skeleton
then perhaps the fault can be traced to geometric weakness in the
design
perhaps a company can derive
a new trussing plan
or some strange tensioning topology
to protect future buildings from collapse
i am sure that would be an economically successful approach
many buildings have been built over subterranean excavations
and future building ordinances would likely be interested
in such models
but my little game physics engine
doesn't seem to show much happening differently
if i impulse the bottom
or suddenly remove load (free fall)
so I don't get the million
(yet =) )
see
i don't really care
if "cointelpro 2: return of the MLK xombie eaters"
is the disinformation front conspiring with old europe
to overthrow american hegemony
or if g-dub is a plant of china
intending our fealty through loans
or any of the other fables
barkered on conspiracy lane
because they are untestable to me
but i do think something very horrible
happened on 2001-sep-11
that should be fully scientifically explored and modeled
i do not want to see it ever happen again
and i think there are many historical examples to show
scientific research can be stimulated
by the possibility of economic gain
government engineers (representative legislatures)
should be asking similar questions
about the exact points of failure in the chain of command
and making the structural changes needed
to prevent future failures of defense
when they do not
you cannot blame some of the populace
for fearing false flags and wondering paranoiacally
a friend of mine has actually sent emails to the NIST
asking for CVS access to their simulations
and she has never received a response
The disinformation campaign also has the pleasant benefit of overloading our
stressed government agencies with all kinds of unwise requests.
that should not be an unwise request in scientific investigations
yes
my friend is a little hyper
and eager to believe in the evil government theories
but when she was working on her master's thesis
on optimal circuit layout algorithms
she was able to request a c++ boost::graph implementation
from one research group
that was simulating certain random graph algorithms
i too did the same
in my undergraduate paper
studying 3-body recombination in antihydrogen production
where another group had the electronic part
of the mass equation
in a fortran library
to do real science
you need openness and sharing of models
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galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
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| User: "jmcgill" |
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| Title: Re: $1 MILLION REWARD for a simple paper in PHYSICS -- CONTROLLEDDEMOLITION HOAX of 9/11 |
30 Sep 2006 12:33:52 PM |
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galathaea wrote:
but why are the towers
even worthy of much speculation?
Is this intended to scan like poetry?
the wtc7 building is the one showing truly new behaviors
things not seen previously in natural collapses
People who are puzzled by the WTC-7 collapse, rarely acknowledge certain
facts about the building, such as the problem of large amounts of its
structure being ripped out by falling debris from the South Tower, and
the fact that observers had been surveying the building for hours using
transits, anticipating a collapse.
Most arguments for a "WTC-7 controlled demolition" also rely on an
interpretation of Silverstein's use of the word "pull" in an interview.
no previous steel frame has completely collapsed in this manner
No previous building had ever been subjected to large amounts of mass
from a collapsing 110-story building falling on it.
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| User: "galathaea" |
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| Title: Re: $1 MILLION REWARD for a simple paper in PHYSICS -- CONTROLLED DEMOLITION HOAX of 9/11 |
01 Oct 2006 06:59:10 PM |
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jmcgill wrote:
galathaea wrote:
but why are the towers
even worthy of much speculation?
Is this intended to scan like poetry?
rarely do i write
what i consider poetic
even rarer do others consider it so
the wtc7 building is the one showing truly new behaviors
things not seen previously in natural collapses
People who are puzzled by the WTC-7 collapse, rarely acknowledge certain
facts about the building, such as the problem of large amounts of its
structure being ripped out by falling debris from the South Tower, and
the fact that observers had been surveying the building for hours using
transits, anticipating a collapse.
Most arguments for a "WTC-7 controlled demolition" also rely on an
interpretation of Silverstein's use of the word "pull" in an interview.
yes
many people focus on many strange things
i do acknowledge the tower 1 collapse damage
and my models still do not work out
yes
they are lame models
but i have not seen much better in the scholarly literature
what i have seen do not give complete models
for descriptive comparison with observations
but if such exists
they can publically lay claim to this prize
no previous steel frame has completely collapsed in this manner
No previous building had ever been subjected to large amounts of mass
from a collapsing 110-story building falling on it.
maybe not exactly
but plenty of steel frame buildings
have encountered larger masses falling on them
(admittedly not originating from 110-story buildings
but still having more mass collide)
there are a number of examples from earthquakes
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galathaea: prankster, fablist, magician, liar
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