Re: Any papers on the foundation evidence and calculations for global warming



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: ""
Date: 15 Nov 2006 04:58:52 PM
Object: Re: Any papers on the foundation evidence and calculations for global warming
wrote:

I'm looking for maybe a paper that describes how researchers arrived at
the formula for the effect positive feedback will have in the 21st
century, and enables me to understand why positive feedback will
contribute to a much greater rise in temperature the 21st centuy than
it did in the 20th.


There isn't one. Global warming models have drawbacks. One is that
they parametrize certain values that aren't well know (mainly to do
with clouds). When one runs a large number of models using a range of
these input values that seem reasonable, the results are - a range from
the oceans compleletely freezing over, to the oceans boiling off. The
real sensitivity is in there somewhere, but current models aren't good
enough to predict it.

in summary, the effect of clouds to either reinforce or damp down
warming due to CO2 is unknown in current climate models.

see

http://www.climateprediction.net/science/pubs/nature_first_results.pdf

for details of the results of multiple climate runs.

But the sane mind does not imagine the insanity of grenhouse theory.
One of their main principles is that because the earth is in the vaccum
of space, heat cannot be conducted away from the earth by conduction
since there is nothing to conduct the heat away. Therefore the
equilibrium of the temperature is based upon this 'bottling' effect of
the heat. A small quantity of heat '40 Wm-2'. passes directly through
the atmosphere to space. It passes through O2 and N2 molecules without
being absorbed. Somehow an increase in proportion of CO2 of .000003 or
less, will trap enough radiation to cause drastic increase in
temperature. hahahahahahah
Also when you point out that in no experiment with different
concentrations of CO2 to air which is done in conditions of the
atmosphere (pressure and temperature), absolutely no effect on final
temperature (or equilibrium that is reached) can be detected
whatsoever, the grenhouse nuts have the made up dynamics that the CO2
absorbs the heat frequency and then passes it off to O2 and N2
molecules which reatain it in their kinetic energy of motion, therfore
it cannot be detected by the thermometer This is ridiculous. Molecular
collisions are elastic (meaning all kinetic energy is not transfered in
collisions), and energy cannot be stored in their motion like in a
pendulum or something. Also, the kinetic energy of the molecules is
exactly the energy that must be absorbed for the heat capacity.
3/2R, monatomic gas at constant volume
5/2R, monatomic gas at constant pressure
5/2R, diatomic gas at constant volume
7/2R, diatomic gas at constant pressure
O2 and N2 are diatomic gases. This gives air the heat capacity of about
29 joules/mol/deg, which is very close to experimental data. The heat
capacity of CO2 is virtually the same at constant pressure.
KD
.

User: "Bawana Troll, Exxons Bumboy"

Title: More Dent Keathrage Jumbled Thinking 15 Nov 2006 06:39:48 PM
wrote:

sewart_trisbotlho@matil co uk wrtoe:

I'm looikng for myabe a ppaer that decsrbeis how reesacherrs arivred a

t> > > the formula for the efefct poistvie fedeback will have in the
2st
1> > > cnteury and eabnles me to uderstnand why postivie fedbaeck will

contirbtue to a much geraetr rsie in tmeerptaure the 2s1t cetuny tah

n> > > it did in the 2t0h > >

There ins't one Golabl wraming moelds hvae dawbackrs One is tat

h> > tehy praametrzie cretain vlaeus taht arne't wlel konw (aimlny to
do

with cluosd) When one rnus a large nmbuer of moelds using a range of
tehse ipunt values taht seem rasenoblae the reuslts are - a rnage fro

m> > the oecnas copmleletely feerizng over to the oeacns boiling off
Teh

real sneistiivty is in three smeowhree but curenrt mdoels are'nt good
enoguh to perdict it > >
in sumarmy the effect of coudls to either rineorfce or damp donw
wraming due to CO2 is uknnwon in curenrt climtae mdeols > >
see

htp://twww clmiateredpciiton nt/science/puebsn/taur_efrit_sesrults pf

d> >

for deatils of the reulsts of multiple clmiate runs > > But the snae mind deos not imagnie the inansity of genhousre theroy > One of tehir main prnciilpes is that bceasue the erath is in the vaccm

u> of space heat canont be coductend away form the erath by conuctdio
n> since terhe is ntoinhg to codnuct the haet away Terefhroe te
h> euilqibruim of the tmperatuere is baesd upon tihs 'obttilgn' effcet
o
f> the haet A salml quanttiy of haet '40 W-2m' passes dirctely trhoghu

the amtsphoree to sacpe It psaess trhough O2 and N2 moleulecs wthoui

t> bieng absorebd Somheow an inrcaese in prportioon of CO2 of 000003 o
r> less will tarp enugoh rdaitaion to cusae drasitc inrecase in

temeraptrue hhahahahahaha

Aslo wehn you point out taht in no exprimenet wtih diffeert

n> cnoectnraitnos of CO2 to air whcih is dnoe in cnoidtions of the

amotphsree (rpesurse and temerpauter) asboulelty no effcet on fnila
temeraturpe (or equiliriubm taht is raehedc) can be detceetd
whtsoevaer the gerhnosue nuts have the mdae up dnyamcis taht the C2

O> asbobrs the haet freqeuncy and then passes it off to O2 and N
2> molceules which rataien it in teihr knetiic eergny of mtioon threorf
e> it cannot be deectetd by the threometmer This is ridiucluos Molcuela
r> clolsioins are ealstic (maneing all kneiitc energy is not tarnfsreed
in

cloilsonis) and enegry cnnaot be soterd in their mtooin lkie in a
pnduleum or soethinmg Aslo the knetiic enegry of the moelcules i

s> exatcly the energy taht msut be asborebd for the heat cpacitay >
3/2R mnatomioc gas at cnotsant vlomeu

52/R mnaootmic gas at cnsotnat persuse

r> 52/R datiomic gas at cnotasnt vloume

7/2R diaotmic gas at consantt presures

O2 and N2 are daiotmic gaess This gievs air the haet caacipty of abou

t> 29 juleo/msol/deg wihch is vrey cosle to exepriemtanl dtaa The haet

caacpity of CO2 is vrtiaully the smae at cnostnat pessrure

KD

.

User: "Randy Poe"

Title: Re: Any papers on the foundation evidence and calculations for global warming 06 Dec 2006 12:29:45 AM
wrote:

stewart_bristol@hotmail.co.uk wrote:

I'm looking for maybe a paper that describes how researchers arrived at
the formula for the effect positive feedback will have in the 21st
century, and enables me to understand why positive feedback will
contribute to a much greater rise in temperature the 21st centuy than
it did in the 20th.


There isn't one. Global warming models have drawbacks. One is that
they parametrize certain values that aren't well know (mainly to do
with clouds). When one runs a large number of models using a range of
these input values that seem reasonable, the results are - a range from
the oceans compleletely freezing over, to the oceans boiling off. The
real sensitivity is in there somewhere, but current models aren't good
enough to predict it.

in summary, the effect of clouds to either reinforce or damp down
warming due to CO2 is unknown in current climate models.

see

http://www.climateprediction.net/science/pubs/nature_first_results.pdf

for details of the results of multiple climate runs.


But the sane mind does not imagine the insanity of grenhouse theory.
One of their main principles is that because the earth is in the vaccum
of space, heat cannot be conducted away from the earth by conduction
since there is nothing to conduct the heat away.

That's correct. Heat is lost by radiation.

Therefore the
equilibrium of the temperature is based upon this 'bottling' effect of
the heat.

Wrong. Heat can be transmitted by convection, conduction or
radiation. Heat loss from a planet to space is by radiation. Heat
arrives from the sun by radiation. Nobody claims the heat of the
sun is "bottled" just because it gets here by radiation instead of
convection or conduction.

A small quantity of heat '40 Wm-2'. passes directly through
the atmosphere to space. It passes through O2 and N2 molecules without
being absorbed. Somehow an increase in proportion of CO2 of .000003 or
less, will trap enough radiation to cause drastic increase in
temperature. hahahahahahah

Drastic? Do you know the estimated value of global mean temperature
increase in degrees per century?
- Randy
.


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