Re: Are Unified Field Theories Justified?



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Andrew B. Park"
Date: 16 Jul 2004 07:01:21 AM
Object: Re: Are Unified Field Theories Justified?
Do you really understand the stuffs you put in this lengthy post? I
will just point out the first misinformation I see and stop there.
(snip)

Consider first the phenomena described by Maxwell's Equations.

These

equations describe the manner in which electric and magnetic fields

interact to

produce the electromagnetic field. They show that a changing electric

field

produces a changing magnetic field and visa versa. They do not

preclude the

existence of unchanging magnetic or electric fields. Indeed, such

fields are

common and we have all experienced them. For example, static magnetic

fields

are exhibited by permanent magnets and electromagnets operated by a

DC current
Er--did you know that these two things you mentioned are one and the
same? Permanent magnets are due to alignment of angular momentum of
electrons in the substance (or something like that) and can (and
should) be understood as being due to the "current" generated by
"orbitting" electrons.

and, in the region of space surrounding them at least, where the

magnetic field

may be quite strong, do not involve an electric field. Similarly,

electric

fields are readily observed, as evidenced by the rising of the hair

on your arm

when it is placed close to the faceplate of a TV set or when one

slides a

polystyrene cup from a stack (such an induced electric field may make

the lower

cup "float" inside the cup above it). In these cases an electric

field is

observed to be present without an accompanying magnetic field. It is

only when

one of those fields (electric and magnetic) has a rate of change with

respect

to time that the other field manifests itself in accordance with

Maxwell's

Equations. It should be obvious to all that electric and magnetic

fields

interact to produce an effect which we denote as the electromagnetic

field but

in no way is the electromagnetic field fundamental since both the

electric and

magnetic fields can be observed independently. (An analogy from

chemistry would

be salt since is composed of atoms of sodium and chlorine which are

combined

into a molecule which we call salt. The molecule is hardly a

fundamental

entity, it is a compound of two fundamental entities.)

How exactly, do you propose that magnetic field is "fundamental" by
itself? Where is magnetic field without an electric field? You
mentioned a DC current generating unchanging magnetic field--well, how
do you suppose you get that DC current? From another unchanging
magnetic field? Generating such DC current is possible only by putting
an electric potential difference between two ends of the coil--which
sets an electric field inside the coil, causing the free electrons to
move. (BTW, just in case you are even a bit knowledgeable about physics
and have heard something like E=0 inside a conductor, well, just keep
in mind that it was for electrostatics.)
Perhaps electric field can exist by itself, because a stationary charge
(if we can ever get that--even at 0K, there is always something called
Brownian motion, so unless we agree to be in the "inertial frame" of
the charge, it will never be "stationary") will not have any magnetic
field associated with it. But, since we do not have a magnetic monopole
(you did look up all four Maxwell's equations, right?) it is not
possible for us to have a magnetic field without electric field. And,
if electric field itself is all that is necessary to produce a magnetic
field, and they happen together so often, why call it just "electric
field," which clearly presents only half the picture--thus, we call it
"electromagnetic field."
So, post this again when you have found a magnetic monopole and shaken
the foundation of physics as we know it.
(snip all the other bs i didn't have time to check)
.

User: "Tahcyq"

Title: Re: Are Unified Field Theories Justified? 16 Jul 2004 09:16:55 AM
While magnetic fields may be generated by electric fields, they can exist
independently of those fields. The magnetic field around an MRI machine fills
the room yet there is no electric field associated with that flux, the electric
field is contained within the machine and, since the electric current is
constant, there is no associated electromagnetic field.
The electric field associated with the CRT of a TV may be sensed by its
effecton the hair of your arm, but there is no magnetic field associated with
that electric field.
A similar result is found in gravitation. As I sint in my chair I sense
gravitation but there is no inertial acceleration associated with that sensed
gravitational force. A rocket sled being tested on an airforce proving range is
subjected to inertial acceleration but, except for its weight holding it to the
track, is not subject to gravitational acceleration.
Forces due to inertial acceleration can occur independently of gravitation and
forces to to gravitational attraction can occur independently of inertial
acceleration (which is properly defined as the second derivative of position
with respect to time).
My response to replies to such as yours is the suggestion that you go back and
rethink what you have been mistaught.
Einsteinhoax@aol.com
.


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