| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"hanson" |
| Date: |
15 Feb 2006 11:20:18 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Arsenic and cattle |
Interesting observations and citations, Smitty. Also, interestingly,
the sources [1] & [2] you cited are contradicting each other and
[1] says maybe yes and maybe no.... and there are reason for it.
Here, reposted, are some notes along this very line
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.chem/msg/b1ac9af2d6368bc0
There is/was a lot of controversy over the toxicity of arsenic, As2O3.
There are accounts that in pre-warII Austria, where As2O3 was
mined, septagonarians ate As2O3 the size of pigeon eggs, daily,
as their geriatric fix, their elixir/tonic! Other stories from the same
realms say that the Gypsies there bought old or sick horses for
cheap or stole'm. They then put the animals onto a high Arsenic
diet, which made their coats shine and their eyes "glow"... at which
point they sold the fixed up animals for a great profit... hopped on
their wagons and moved on... out of town... real fast... ahahaha...
Addendum 2006:
In matters which you are addressing, Smitty, I personally trust the
peasant and Gypsy info at least as much as the learned folks'
who write essays and make studies with an agenda behind it and
a goal to further that, no matter what the study-outcome shows.
Although it is a kinda obvious, it is still the best kept dirty little
secret in nutritionism ...like in environmentalism... that they simply
don't know what they are going. Enviro/Nutri Science is to real
Science what Astrology is to Astronomy.
There is an old saying that "Toxicity is only a matter of quantity"
reflecting the enormous study problems from the vast complexity
of the organism involved, starting with effects of toxins present
in sub-detection concentrations, below the current state of the art
in metrology... but at levels where said element still may show
drastic effects... demonstrable when you consider that
***1 trillionth of an ounce As in 1 ounce of tissue ***
***** still contains 230 Billion atoms of Arsenic *****
[(6E+23/74.96)*(28.35)*(1E-12)=2.3E11] which do their work, doing
their thing. All 230 Billion of'em... in one mouthful of meat... where
they will manifest amplified in very many effects and symptoms.
.... which illustrate to chemists how small atoms are and to physicists
how tiny but powerful a few elementary electric unit charges can be.
ahahahaha... AHAHAHAHA.... ahahahanson
"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <N: dlzc1 D:cox T:net@nospam.com>
wrote in message news:UDxIf.32767$jR.9050@fed1read01...
I had made an unsupported statement about a year and a half ago that cattle
required a small amount of arsenic in their diets to survive. I was asked for any
sort of literature support and found very little at the time.
[1] http://www.ead.anl.gov/pub/doc/arsenic.pdf
"Depending on the amount ingested, arsenic can be beneficial (animal studies
suggest that low levels of arsenic in the diet are essential) or adverse (high
levels can be toxic)."
http://horse.purinamills.com/bulletins/poison/lamenessinducing.html
[2] "The toxic effects of selenium in ruminants varies, depending on the amount
and rate of its absorption, the individual animal's susceptibility, the type of
selenium present in the plant, and the interaction of selenium with other
elements, such as sulfur, arsenic, or copper, in the diet. These minerals, and
possibly others, competitively interfere with selenium absorption by ruminants. If
this also occurs in horses, adequate amounts of these minerals in their diet may
help reduce selenium poisoning for them, although currently this hasn't been
demonstrated."
Still no real pointers to peer reviewed literature... but, if you have healthy
cattle, you have some arsenic. This is beef, milk, and ground or surface water
near where they "eliminate". And arsenic is not limited to cattle...
David A. Smith
.
|
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| User: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \dlzc\ N: dlzc1 D:cox" |
|
| Title: Re: Arsenic and cattle |
15 Feb 2006 06:28:23 PM |
|
|
Dear hanson:
"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:mpJIf.33146$lo3.23254@trnddc07...
Interesting observations and citations, Smitty. Also,
interestingly, the sources [1] & [2] you cited are
contradicting each other and [1] says maybe yes
and maybe no.... and there are reason for it.
Government? Contradiction? No way! From the folks that brought
us "military intelligence"... ?
Here, reposted, are some notes along this very line
http://groups.google.com/group/sci.chem/msg/b1ac9af2d6368bc0
There is/was a lot of controversy over the toxicity
of arsenic, As2O3. There are accounts that in
pre-warII Austria, where As2O3 was mined,
septagonarians ate As2O3 the size of pigeon
eggs, daily, as their geriatric fix, their elixir/tonic!
Other stories from the same realms say that the
Gypsies there bought old or sick horses for
cheap or stole'm. They then put the animals onto
a high Arsenic diet, which made their coats shine
and their eyes "glow"... at which point they sold
the fixed up animals for a great profit... hopped on
their wagons and moved on... out of town... real
fast... ahahaha...
Addendum 2006:
In matters which you are addressing, Smitty, I
personally trust the peasant and Gypsy info at
least as much as the learned folks' who write
essays and make studies with an agenda
behind it and a goal to further that, no matter
what the study-outcome shows. Although it
is a kinda obvious, it is still the best kept dirty
little secret in nutritionism ...like in
environmentalism... that they simply don't
know what they are going. Enviro/Nutri
Science is to real Science what Astrology is
to Astronomy.
There is an old saying that "Toxicity is only
a matter of quantity" reflecting the enormous
study problems from the vast complexity
of the organism involved, starting with effects
of toxins present in sub-detection
concentrations, below the current state of the
art in metrology... but at levels where said
element still may show drastic effects...
demonstrable when you consider that
***1 trillionth of an ounce As in 1 ounce of tissue ***
***** still contains 230 Billion atoms of Arsenic *****
[(6E+23/74.96)*(28.35)*(1E-12)=2.3E11]
which do their work, doing their thing. All 230
Billion of'em... in one mouthful of meat... where
they will manifest amplified in very many
effects and symptoms.
I heard a slightly less chemical analogy...
1 part per billion is the equivalent of dissolving a 325 mg
aspirin in a tanker car full of water.
... which illustrate to chemists how small atoms
are and to physicists how tiny but powerful a
few elementary electric unit charges can be.
ahahahaha... AHAHAHAHA.... ahahahanson
It is also interesting to me that dairy folks (that actually herd
them) have a lot of "growths" on the order of keratosis. Not
tumors (nor even pre-cancer), but I wonder if the arsenic that
isn't eliminated from the body outright (and different kinds of
arsenic compounds have different amounts of uptake) will simply
activate these. The number and size of the keratoses (is that a
word?) being indicative of exposure history...
Nice chatting with you hanson.
David A. Smith
.
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