On Mon, 07 Jan 2008, Mekon <blankota...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:

As I understand the concept. God sent Jesus down to Earth where he
suffered and died as an atonement for the sins we have done and will do
from that point till his return. As a result we get eternal life.
I have a couple of problems understanding this.

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Who doesn't? It's a good question... a question "free ride" Atheists
(Catholics, Atheists, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, all antichrists)
never want to hear the answer to, since accepting their own personal
responsibility and complicity (Leviticus 5:17) is anathema to their
worldly arrogance. Who needs God, after all? Atheists are gods unto
themselves! Thus they live without God, and so they die without God,
imprisoned in outer darkness, in torments, afar off from the Light...

The analogy of God and us is often made with a father and his family.

That's more than merely analogous. The Sons of God ARE His own family.

Indeed many people call him 'Our Father'.

Our heavenly father, Yes. All God-fearing souls call God "our Father",
similar to how we call Abraham "our father". It's the Golden Rule. :)

I am a father of two
children, lets call them Sally and Jimmy. Neither of them are perfect,
but lets just say Sally is. She comes to me and says "Dad, Jimmy has
been bad. So bad, that even if you were the most forgiving father in
the world, and even if you could forgive him, the things he has done
would shock you so greatly, =A0hurt you so deeply and offend you down to
the core of your being so that you would never, ever forgive him."
"But Dad, I can make it right, I can get Jimmy to be sorry for what he
has done, be very sorry and - and here is the kicker -and I am prepared
to die a really gruesome horible death so that those sins that Jimmy
did can be paid for."
"So Jimmy will be back in the good books OK Dad? Huh?"
I can't see how any rational being man or God or anything in between
could answer 'Yes'
Please explain how the Christian God can.
Oh and don't tell me to read the bible, I have. Just explain it.
Mekon

If you truly have read the S. scriptures or if God has given you
some horse-sense, or better yet both, then you already know that
the worldly tend to hear only what they want to hear, and ignore
the rest--they "disregard the rest", to quote a classic S&G song.
The worldly tend to "rationalize" their sinfulness all life long
until the day they die: and all their "rationale" dies with them...

Take your "sinless Sally", for example. First, Adam was not made
from Eve's rib, but conversely. In the genetic, messianic advent,
the Son of man is male, not female. Jesus Christ was born a male.
And, as the first men Adam fell from sinlessness and immortality
into sin and mortality, first one, then two, then three, etc. ad
infinitum; so too Jesus is the first-begotten from the aforesaid:
through long ages of self-discipline and perseverance in practice.
Through much practice, by walking with God He personally overcame
his own Adamic nature, so much so that He incarnated sinless ergo
immortal in the body of Jesus Christ. Thus because He did what no
other man since the Fall had done, Jesus opened the book of life,
thereby making it possible for willing participants to follow His
leadership by example, i.e. by doing as He commanded us all to do.
You see many had tried, over the long ages past, to do what Jesus
did, but all before had failed, inevitably backsliding the latter
worse off than the former (I think because they mistakenly sought
freedom without responsibility, running from their karmic shadow-
self instead of embracing it, as warned against in 2 Peter 2:21ff).
But because with God all things are possible, Jesus managed to do
the impossible: He actually conquered his inherent, sinful nature.

You see, Jesus is the first-begotten above sin and its deadly wages,
so it was up to Him with God to end the animal sacrifice at Calvary
thereby making it possible for all other sinners to accomplish the
impossible: by participating in our salvation, following His Voice,
thus accepting our God-given Individual responsibility for our own
works of good and works of evil. For thereby we each are adjudged,
all our works digested, measured, weighed, divided in the balance.

The worldly seek freedom without responsibility, and so are doomed
to wit: even the great worldwide flood of Noah's time will pale by
comparison to the great tribulation which is about to befall this
hideously-evil empire. Anyone who is even casually familiar with
the prophecies knows this already. Even so they shall not repent,
because their bloated mortal human egos leave little room for God.
So the death of their mortal bodies is the least of their problems...

I think it's like being out on the open range, leading one horse
to a watering hole, and explaining to the horse that It's a long
ride to the next watering hole, so you had better drink up while
the drinking's good. But hesitate, and vultures will devour your
flesh to the bone, and your bones will bleach in the desert sand.
But, as with all but one of Mother Earth's *millions* of species,
the equine do not, rather cannot, sin. Only fallen mortal humans
have consistently demonstrated that unique and God-given ability
to rebel against Him. Thus man fell, and the Earth fell with him.

Whereas, the humble and repentant human, who thirsts with all his
heart, mind and soul for the water of life, he will drink thereof,
being scrupulously obedient to the commanding voice of his Master.
As a result, that one actually does repent in reality, not merely
"conceptually" or "rationally". That one shows faith by works, as
our LORD and King Jesus Christ has commanded his humble slaves to
do day and night, 24/7/365.2422. That one does well both here and
in the hereafter. That one does not get trapped on the wrong side
of the Abyss in the hereafter. That one is in the bosom of Abraham,
meaning in the warm cradling embrace of our heavenly father in the
Light, thus into Purgatory: where the second death awaits each one
to be cast down from heaven mortally born amid the crashing karmic
waves. No free ride, no free lunch. Do not pass go, do not collect...

Because, all men are Created equal. So anyone who believes they'll
get a "free ride", a "free pass", from the Holy Ghost who forgives
not, not in this world, neither in the world being eternally about,
they're in for a very rude & sobering awakening on their dying day
when their Immortal spirit-person eyes look up in Dark Limbo, afar
off from the terrifying Light in which to see their future Judgment
awaiting them, each one precisely according to their works of good
and their works of evil. Here, these tormented souls are constantly
reminded that everlasting personal freedom and everlasting personal
responsibility do walk hand-in-hand Universally. No exceptions. See?
They were warned all men are Created equal. They did not believe it.
Thus they had spent their entire lives scapegoating others, instead
of looking in the mirror and seeing that grotesque MONSTER staring
back at them (sometimes Medusa is safely seen this way, but rarely).

Thus begs the question, why do "free ride" Christians believe that,
when they die, they'll get a free ride in Heaven for all eternity?
And furthermore why do they also believe all unbelievers, when they
die, they are damned in Hellfire for all eternity? Why believe it?
Again, it's because the Atheists believe only what they _want_ to
believe, and hear only what they _want_ to hear, and disregard the
rest. That's why Atheists, i.e. all "free riders", cannot be saved.

Armageddon Cometh,
Daniel Joseph Minhttp://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/

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On Mon, 07 Jan 2008, Mekon <blankota...@nospam.hotmail.com> wrote:

As I understand the concept. God sent Jesus down to Earth where he
suffered and died as an atonement for the sins we have done and will do
from that point till his return. As a result we get eternal life.
I have a couple of problems understanding this.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Who doesn't? It's a good question... a question "free ride" Atheists
(Catholics, Atheists, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus, all antichrists)
never want to hear the answer to, since accepting their own personal
responsibility and complicity (Leviticus 5:17) is anathema to their
worldly arrogance. Who needs God, after all? Atheists are gods unto
themselves! Thus they live without God, and so they die without God,
imprisoned in outer darkness, in torments, afar off from the Light...

The analogy of God and us is often made with a father and his family.

That's more than merely analogous. The Sons of God ARE His own family.

Indeed many people call him 'Our Father'.

Our heavenly father, Yes. All God-fearing souls call God "our Father",
similar to how we call Abraham "our father". It's the Golden Rule. :)

I am a father of two
children, lets call them Sally and Jimmy. Neither of them are perfect,
but lets just say Sally is. She comes to me and says "Dad, Jimmy has
been bad. So bad, that even if you were the most forgiving father in
the world, and even if you could forgive him, the things he has done
would shock you so greatly, =A0hurt you so deeply and offend you down to
the core of your being so that you would never, ever forgive him."
"But Dad, I can make it right, I can get Jimmy to be sorry for what he
has done, be very sorry and - and here is the kicker -and I am prepared
to die a really gruesome horible death so that those sins that Jimmy
did can be paid for."
"So Jimmy will be back in the good books OK Dad? Huh?"
I can't see how any rational being man or God or anything in between
could answer 'Yes'
Please explain how the Christian God can.
Oh and don't tell me to read the bible, I have. Just explain it.
Mekon

If you truly have read the S. scriptures or if God has given you
some horse-sense, or better yet both, then you already know that
the worldly tend to hear only what they want to hear, and ignore
the rest--they "disregard the rest", to quote a classic S&G song.
The worldly tend to "rationalize" their sinfulness all life long
until the day they die: and all their "rationale" dies with them...

Take your "sinless Sally", for example. First, Adam was not made
from Eve's rib, but conversely. In the genetic, messianic advent,
the Son of man is male, not female. Jesus Christ was born a male.
And, as the first men Adam fell from sinlessness and immortality
into sin and mortality, first one, then two, then three, etc. ad
infinitum; so too Jesus is the first-begotten from the aforesaid:
through long ages of self-discipline and perseverance in practice.
Through much practice, by walking with God He personally overcame
his own Adamic nature, so much so that He incarnated sinless ergo
immortal in the body of Jesus Christ. Thus because He did what no
other man since the Fall had done, Jesus opened the book of life,
thereby making it possible for willing participants to follow His
leadership by example, i.e. by doing as He commanded us all to do.
You see many had tried, over the long ages past, to do what Jesus
did, but all before had failed, inevitably backsliding the latter
worse off than the former (I think because they mistakenly sought
freedom without responsibility, running from their karmic shadow-
self instead of embracing it, as warned against in 2 Peter 2:21ff).
But because with God all things are possible, Jesus managed to do
the impossible: He actually conquered his inherent, sinful nature.

You see, Jesus is the first-begotten above sin and its deadly wages,
so it was up to Him with God to end the animal sacrifice at Calvary
thereby making it possible for all other sinners to accomplish the
impossible: by participating in our salvation, following His Voice,
thus accepting our God-given Individual responsibility for our own
works of good and works of evil. For thereby we each are adjudged,
all our works digested, measured, weighed, divided in the balance.

The worldly seek freedom without responsibility, and so are doomed
to wit: even the great worldwide flood of Noah's time will pale by
comparison to the great tribulation which is about to befall this
hideously-evil empire. Anyone who is even casually familiar with
the prophecies knows this already. Even so they shall not repent,
because their bloated mortal human egos leave little room for God.
So the death of their mortal bodies is the least of their problems...

I think it's like being out on the open range, leading one horse
to a watering hole, and explaining to the horse that It's a long
ride to the next watering hole, so you had better drink up while
the drinking's good. But hesitate, and vultures will devour your
flesh to the bone, and your bones will bleach in the desert sand.
But, as with all but one of Mother Earth's *millions* of species,
the equine do not, rather cannot, sin. Only fallen mortal humans
have consistently demonstrated that unique and God-given ability
to rebel against Him. Thus man fell, and the Earth fell with him.

Whereas, the humble and repentant human, who thirsts with all his
heart, mind and soul for the water of life, he will drink thereof,
being scrupulously obedient to the commanding voice of his Master.
As a result, that one actually does repent in reality, not merely
"conceptually" or "rationally". That one shows faith by works, as
our LORD and King Jesus Christ has commanded his humble slaves to
do day and night, 24/7/365.2422. That one does well both here and
in the hereafter. That one does not get trapped on the wrong side
of the Abyss in the hereafter. That one is in the bosom of Abraham,
meaning in the warm cradling embrace of our heavenly father in the
Light, thus into Purgatory: where the second death awaits each one
to be cast down from heaven mortally born amid the crashing karmic
waves. No free ride, no free lunch. Do not pass go, do not collect...

Because, all men are Created equal. So anyone who believes they'll
get a "free ride", a "free pass", from the Holy Ghost who forgives
not, not in this world, neither in the world being eternally about,
they're in for a very rude & sobering awakening on their dying day
when their Immortal spirit-person eyes look up in Dark Limbo, afar
off from the terrifying Light in which to see their future Judgment
awaiting them, each one precisely according to their works of good
and their works of evil. Here, these tormented souls are constantly
reminded that everlasting personal freedom and everlasting personal
responsibility do walk hand-in-hand Universally. No exceptions. See?
They were warned all men are Created equal. They did not believe it.
Thus they had spent their entire lives scapegoating others, instead
of looking in the mirror and seeing that grotesque MONSTER staring
back at them (sometimes Medusa is safely seen this way, but rarely).

Thus begs the question, why do "free ride" Christians believe that,
when they die, they'll get a free ride in Heaven for all eternity?
And furthermore why do they also believe all unbelievers, when they
die, they are damned in Hellfire for all eternity? Why believe it?
Again, it's because the Atheists believe only what they _want_ to
believe, and hear only what they _want_ to hear, and disregard the
rest. That's why Atheists, i.e. all "free riders", cannot be saved.

Armageddon Cometh,
Daniel Joseph Minhttp://www.angelfire.com/moon2/danieljosephmin/

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=3DMSm1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE------ Hide quoted text -

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