| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Jean-Paul Turcaud" |
| Date: |
17 Jul 2005 03:35:31 AM |
| Object: |
Re: Intent of the Ancients |
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> a écrit dans le message de news:
50qjd1l7mi9ekbp2v1grplc8tf4ugptu82@4ax.com...
I would probably run out of room before I got the heavy blocks to
their final height so at that stage I would start using a system of
levers of the kind which the Egyptians are known to have used.
Once I got the height of the pyramid to the limits of an economically
viable ramp I would switch to using a system of sheer legs to hoist
the vast number of smaller blocks up one level at a time.
For my long established views on the subject, see
<eQOaOJTqDFs2IaN+HO3mBALX6=V0@4ax.com> and
<c5bYOEMwZ8zfKBLi9kYer3SpTK60@4ax.com>
Eric Stevens
.... and what would be the purpose of it all, Eric ?
To make a tomb according to the Official tale ?
Since you are so good, how would you cut the Syenite and Basalt 70 tons
blocks, and dressed them so impeccably square & normal to each others,
than their size varies from less a 1/10th of a mm, and they fit all together
without cement. How would you that ? With a theodolite ?
... and cut them through ? with bronze tools ?
How many people to achieve it ? and what was the planning in your view ? 100
years or 200 years !
How long for extraction of a single 25 tons of Dolomite( nearly local ) ,
Syenite ( coming 400 km up stream ) and 70 tons Basalt blocks ( coming from
Nubia )
As a builder, surely you can give us figures, which Archaeologists unable to
work with their 10 fingers, and no mining, nor Civil engineering experience
cann't figure out !
Your little Archaeology hairy committee's findings should be matched now
with the Geologists and Physicists ... I am sure you do not object to this ?
Thanks
--
Jean-Paul Turcaud
Exploration Geologist
Discoverer and Legal Owner of Telfer, Nifty & Kintyre Mines
The Great Sandy Desert of Australia
Founder of the True Geology
~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
.
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| User: "Eric Stevens" |
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| Title: Re: Intent of the Ancients |
17 Jul 2005 04:00:13 AM |
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On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:35:31 +0200, "Jean-Paul Turcaud"
<mining_pioneer@com.yahøø> wrote:
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> a écrit dans le message de news:
50qjd1l7mi9ekbp2v1grplc8tf4ugptu82@4ax.com...
I would probably run out of room before I got the heavy blocks to
their final height so at that stage I would start using a system of
levers of the kind which the Egyptians are known to have used.
Once I got the height of the pyramid to the limits of an economically
viable ramp I would switch to using a system of sheer legs to hoist
the vast number of smaller blocks up one level at a time.
For my long established views on the subject, see
<eQOaOJTqDFs2IaN+HO3mBALX6=V0@4ax.com> and
<c5bYOEMwZ8zfKBLi9kYer3SpTK60@4ax.com>
Eric Stevens
... and what would be the purpose of it all, Eric ?
To make a tomb according to the Official tale ?
Since you are so good, how would you cut the Syenite and Basalt 70 tons
blocks, and dressed them so impeccably square & normal to each others,
than their size varies from less a 1/10th of a mm, and they fit all together
without cement. How would you that ? With a theodolite ?
... and cut them through ? with bronze tools ?
I would dress them with hammers made of diorite until they were a
fairly good fit. Then I would place them together and run a saw made
not of bronze but of COPPER down between them to dress the high spots
off the contact faces. I haven't invented this technology. There is
unarguable evidence that this is what they did.
How many people to achieve it ? and what was the planning in your view ? 100
years or 200 years !
How long for extraction of a single 25 tons of Dolomite( nearly local ) ,
Syenite ( coming 400 km up stream ) and 70 tons Basalt blocks ( coming from
Nubia )
As a builder, surely you can give us figures, which Archaeologists unable to
work with their 10 fingers, and no mining, nor Civil engineering experience
cann't figure out !
Your little Archaeology hairy committee's findings should be matched now
with the Geologists and Physicists ... I am sure you do not object to this ?
To my amazement http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/0699feat.html is
still there since 1999. My thanks to Doug Weller for originally
locating it.
Eric Stevens
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| User: "Jean-Paul Turcaud" |
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| Title: Re: Intent of the Ancients |
17 Jul 2005 08:16:21 AM |
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"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> a écrit dans le message de news:
uq6kd1t81u7o58m0mm5tevjpcdvdpggai9@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:35:31 +0200, "Jean-Paul Turcaud"
"snip"
I would dress them with hammers made of diorite until they were a
fairly good fit. Then I would place them together and run a saw made
not of bronze but of COPPER down between them to dress the high spots
off the contact faces. I haven't invented this technology. There is
unarguable evidence that this is what they did.
Eric Stevens
Dear Eric;
Thank you for your reply.
Copper saw then ?
Marvellous !
Have you conducted Spectrophotogrammetry analysis ( my speciality once ) for
Copper on the sample chips taken on the Dolomite, Basalt and Syenite Great
Pyramid stones !
Or has it been conducted by others ?
Remember with Spectrophotometers we are working on ppm ... what are the
values obtained then ?
As well a nuclear Scanner would certainly give some clues on any of the
tools used.
Has this been done on the GP stones ?
Please advise. .
With kind regards
jp
~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
.
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| User: "Eric Stevens" |
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| Title: Re: Intent of the Ancients |
17 Jul 2005 03:24:21 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:16:21 +0200, "Jean-Paul Turcaud"
<mining_pioneer@com.yahøø> wrote:
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> a écrit dans le message de news:
uq6kd1t81u7o58m0mm5tevjpcdvdpggai9@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:35:31 +0200, "Jean-Paul Turcaud"
"snip"
I would dress them with hammers made of diorite until they were a
fairly good fit. Then I would place them together and run a saw made
not of bronze but of COPPER down between them to dress the high spots
off the contact faces. I haven't invented this technology. There is
unarguable evidence that this is what they did.
Eric Stevens
Dear Eric;
Thank you for your reply.
Copper saw then ?
Marvellous !
Have you conducted Spectrophotogrammetry analysis ( my speciality once ) for
Copper on the sample chips taken on the Dolomite, Basalt and Syenite Great
Pyramid stones !
Or has it been conducted by others ?
Remember with Spectrophotometers we are working on ppm ... what are the
values obtained then ?
As well a nuclear Scanner would certainly give some clues on any of the
tools used.
Has this been done on the GP stones ?
Please advise. .
See, for example:
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/ancient_egyptian_copper_slabbing_saws.html
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/timelines/topics/stonework.htm
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/ancient_egyptian_copper_coring_drills.html
With kind regards
jp
~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
Eric Stevens
.
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| User: "Jean-Paul Turcaud" |
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| Title: Re: Intent of the Ancients |
17 Jul 2005 05:49:33 PM |
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Eric,
Thank you very much for the examples supplied
in the link
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/ancient_egyptian_copper_slabbing_saws.html
and the 4th photo is presented a Basalt block.
First of all this block is NOT a basalt block indeed, but in all case an
acidic INTRUSIVE and most probably a Syenite.
that is unforgivable error and typical of Archaeologists of doing without
Geologists to the point of stupid assumption where correct appraisal are
need.
Secondly when you examine the cut, two things are patent and again have
escaped the intellectual approach of Archaeologists :
A) The escape end of the cut is VERTICAL, which is impossible with a saw,
but typical of a wire.
B) The attack of the rock was aborted and started lower, and in this
previous cutting attempt you will note the tool on one of the face, is not
on the same plane than as on the other face of the rock
Typical of a wire not sufficiently tensed ....
C) Typical of such cutting is the complete lack of planning & supervision
indeed ... nothing of the kind ever in the GP
D) If you use Copper tools you get Copper cuttings and a lot of it by your
own site conclusion. The Question now is : WHERE ARE THE COPPER CUTTINGS IN
THE QUARRIES ?
If recovered, those fallen with the rock cutting where not worth being
recovered for many obvious reasons THEN WHERE ARE THE COPPER CARBONATES AND
OXIDES WHERE THEY SHOULD BE NOW ???? Both on the faces of the rocks cuts and
in the quarries floors ! There are none ?
The other site shows primitive tools alleged to have been used by the
Egyptians for core drilling exploration
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/ancient_egyptian_copper_coring_drills.html
with the 4th photo allegedly showing the result as a Granite Core !
I am sorry to say that only Archaeologist who have not field experience in
either percussion, and especially Diamond Drilling could be as grossly
stupid than to infer any relation between the two !
Just look at the groves mark on the side of the Granite core, what is
clearly seen by any Miner / Driller / Geologist / Physicist IS THE THREAD OF
THE DRILLING TOOL !
.... and what is the pace of that tool drilling through a very hard stone
indeed.?
About 7 on Mohs' scale and Copper tool ? less than 3 since you scratch it
anytime with a piece of calcite ?
Well, the scale of the core is indicated but it is evident that the tool had
a very high penetration rate with a continuous spiral grove all through. No
mucking about indeed : Very High Pressure on the head or on the bit, High
speed and high penetration rate indeed ! ... and all this carried out with
hardness 3 tool on a hardness 7 material !!!
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU THE ARCHAEOLOGISTS ARE TRYING TO FOOLS WITH YOUR
UNENDING TRADELESS IDIOCIES !
I challenge any Archaeologist in the world and I backed in that by any
Geologist indeed, to show us how you are able to go Core drilling in Granite
with any Copper tools as well as cutting a slab of hard rock with Copper saw
!
The main Problem with Archaeologist is their crude & tradeless ignorance,
and further more as a result their incapacity at sorting chronologically the
building methods !
INDEED THE OLDEST ONES ARE THE MOST INVOLVED AND THE BLURRED UNDERSTANDING
OF SUCH FACT LEADS TO LUDICROUS CONCLUSIONS !
With best regards
--
Jean-Paul Turcaud
Exploration Geologist
Discoverer and Legal Owner of Telfer, Nifty & Kintyre Mines
The Great Sandy Desert of Australia
Founder of the True Geology
~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> a écrit dans le message de news:
d1fld1l0r207nulhj348nbq70neh11e5rr@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 15:16:21 +0200, "Jean-Paul Turcaud"
<mining_pioneer@com.yahøø> wrote:
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> a écrit dans le message de news:
uq6kd1t81u7o58m0mm5tevjpcdvdpggai9@4ax.com...
On Sun, 17 Jul 2005 10:35:31 +0200, "Jean-Paul Turcaud"
"snip"
I would dress them with hammers made of diorite until they were a
fairly good fit. Then I would place them together and run a saw made
not of bronze but of COPPER down between them to dress the high spots
off the contact faces. I haven't invented this technology. There is
unarguable evidence that this is what they did.
Eric Stevens
Dear Eric;
Thank you for your reply.
Copper saw then ?
Marvellous !
Have you conducted Spectrophotogrammetry analysis ( my speciality once )
for
Copper on the sample chips taken on the Dolomite, Basalt and Syenite
Great
Pyramid stones !
Or has it been conducted by others ?
Remember with Spectrophotometers we are working on ppm ... what are the
values obtained then ?
As well a nuclear Scanner would certainly give some clues on any of the
tools used.
Has this been done on the GP stones ?
Please advise. .
See, for example:
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/ancient_egyptian_copper_slabbing_saws.html
http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/timelines/topics/stonework.htm
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/ancient_egyptian_copper_coring_drills.html
With kind regards
jp
~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
Eric Stevens
.
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| User: "John Roth" |
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| Title: Re: Intent of the Ancients |
18 Jul 2005 08:14:02 AM |
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"Jean-Paul Turcaud" <mining_pioneer@com.yahøø> wrote in message
news:42dae086$0$25024$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
... and what is the pace of that tool drilling through a very hard stone
indeed.?
About 7 on Mohs' scale and Copper tool ? less than 3 since you scratch it
anytime with a piece of calcite ?
All of this tirade (most of it snipped) would be quite true
_if_ the tools were pure copper. The actual composition
is pretty much unknown - precise metalurgy was not a
specialty at that time.
I suspect that the tools are described as copper for the
simple reason that they weren't alloyed with tin, etc,
when they were smelted. It's more likely that the ores
contained something that hardened them substantially.
In a somewhat similar situation, people have been
puzzling over how Damascus steel was made for
literally centuries. It turns out that the "secret" was
ore from a specific bed that contained traces of
certain other substances in quantities small enough that
earlier analyses had dismissed them as trace contaminants.
Ref: Dec 1999 SciAm (I think that's the month.)
In the absense of a decent metalurgical analysis of the
artifacts, backed up by recreation of an actual saw
or whatever with the described properties, doing a
riff on the word "copper" is, at best, premature.
John Roth
--
Jean-Paul Turcaud
Exploration Geologist
Discoverer and Legal Owner of Telfer, Nifty & Kintyre Mines
The Great Sandy Desert of Australia
Founder of the True Geology
~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> a écrit dans le message de news:
d1fld1l0r207nulhj348nbq70neh11e5rr@4ax.com...
.
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| User: "Eric Stevens" |
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| Title: Re: Intent of the Ancients |
18 Jul 2005 04:09:21 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 07:14:02 -0600, "John Roth"
<newsgroups@jhrothjr.com> wrote:
"Jean-Paul Turcaud" <mining_pioneer@com.yahøø> wrote in message
news:42dae086$0$25024$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
... and what is the pace of that tool drilling through a very hard stone
indeed.?
About 7 on Mohs' scale and Copper tool ? less than 3 since you scratch it
anytime with a piece of calcite ?
All of this tirade (most of it snipped) would be quite true
_if_ the tools were pure copper. The actual composition
is pretty much unknown - precise metalurgy was not a
specialty at that time.
I suspect that the tools are described as copper for the
simple reason that they weren't alloyed with tin, etc,
when they were smelted. It's more likely that the ores
contained something that hardened them substantially.
In a somewhat similar situation, people have been
puzzling over how Damascus steel was made for
literally centuries. It turns out that the "secret" was
ore from a specific bed that contained traces of
certain other substances in quantities small enough that
earlier analyses had dismissed them as trace contaminants.
Ref: Dec 1999 SciAm (I think that's the month.)
In the absense of a decent metalurgical analysis of the
artifacts, backed up by recreation of an actual saw
or whatever with the described properties, doing a
riff on the word "copper" is, at best, premature.
Naturally the copper used in those days would by now be regarded as
'impure'. Also, towards the end of the middle period and the new
kingdom the Egyptians started to use bronzes of various kinds. However
the hardness of the copper/bronze is not the point at issue. It is
understood that the egyptians used sand as an abrasive and it was
this, embedded in the surface of the copper, which did the cutting.
Flinders Petrie was of the opinion that the egyptians used harder
materials than sand. See http://www.touregypt.net/petrie/c19.html
Eric Stevens
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| User: "Eric Stevens" |
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| Title: Re: Intent of the Ancients |
17 Jul 2005 06:10:45 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 00:49:33 +0200, "Jean-Paul Turcaud"
<mining_pioneer@com.yahøø> wrote:
Eric,
Thank you very much for the examples supplied
in the link
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/ancient_egyptian_copper_slabbing_saws.html
and the 4th photo is presented a Basalt block.
First of all this block is NOT a basalt block indeed, but in all case an
acidic INTRUSIVE and most probably a Syenite.
that is unforgivable error and typical of Archaeologists of doing without
Geologists to the point of stupid assumption where correct appraisal are
need.
Secondly when you examine the cut, two things are patent and again have
escaped the intellectual approach of Archaeologists :
A) The escape end of the cut is VERTICAL, which is impossible with a saw,
but typical of a wire.
B) The attack of the rock was aborted and started lower, and in this
previous cutting attempt you will note the tool on one of the face, is not
on the same plane than as on the other face of the rock
Typical of a wire not sufficiently tensed ....
C) Typical of such cutting is the complete lack of planning & supervision
indeed ... nothing of the kind ever in the GP
D) If you use Copper tools you get Copper cuttings and a lot of it by your
own site conclusion. The Question now is : WHERE ARE THE COPPER CUTTINGS IN
THE QUARRIES ?
If recovered, those fallen with the rock cutting where not worth being
recovered for many obvious reasons THEN WHERE ARE THE COPPER CARBONATES AND
OXIDES WHERE THEY SHOULD BE NOW ???? Both on the faces of the rocks cuts and
in the quarries floors ! There are none ?
The other site shows primitive tools alleged to have been used by the
Egyptians for core drilling exploration
http://www.geocities.com/unforbidden_geology/ancient_egyptian_copper_coring_drills.html
with the 4th photo allegedly showing the result as a Granite Core !
I am sorry to say that only Archaeologist who have not field experience in
either percussion, and especially Diamond Drilling could be as grossly
stupid than to infer any relation between the two !
Just look at the groves mark on the side of the Granite core, what is
clearly seen by any Miner / Driller / Geologist / Physicist IS THE THREAD OF
THE DRILLING TOOL !
Its not a continuous thread. It's not even a spiral. It shows the
pattern of reversals in rotation from the bow that drove the drill.
... and what is the pace of that tool drilling through a very hard stone
indeed.?
About 7 on Mohs' scale and Copper tool ? less than 3 since you scratch it
anytime with a piece of calcite ?
Well, the scale of the core is indicated but it is evident that the tool had
a very high penetration rate with a continuous spiral grove all through. No
mucking about indeed : Very High Pressure on the head or on the bit, High
speed and high penetration rate indeed ! ... and all this carried out with
hardness 3 tool on a hardness 7 material !!!
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU THE ARCHAEOLOGISTS ARE TRYING TO FOOLS WITH YOUR
UNENDING TRADELESS IDIOCIES !
I challenge any Archaeologist in the world and I backed in that by any
Geologist indeed, to show us how you are able to go Core drilling in Granite
with any Copper tools as well as cutting a slab of hard rock with Copper saw
!
The main Problem with Archaeologist is their crude & tradeless ignorance,
and further more as a result their incapacity at sorting chronologically the
building methods !
INDEED THE OLDEST ONES ARE THE MOST INVOLVED AND THE BLURRED UNDERSTANDING
OF SUCH FACT LEADS TO LUDICROUS CONCLUSIONS !
With best regards
Eric Stevens
.
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| User: "Jean-Paul Turcaud" |
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| Title: Re: Intent of the Ancients |
17 Jul 2005 06:50:10 PM |
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Do you have an idea how to cut the core, when the core barrel is full ? so
as to recover it ?
Explain !
Hence, your bow tool is ludicrous for exploration and exploitation, just
good at the most to make a hole into a slab ALREADY FACED AND CUT ... and
at the most a foot I would say !
With such tool there is no way you could indeed get the core out of a blind
bore ! Yep !
Well it seemed to me, from the regularity of the groves, they were to be
assimilated to a thread. In any case, this would mean a very primitive and
Copper consuming way of boring a hole, since obviously wearing the tool at a
fastest rate that it would penetrate ! Building the GP alone with such tools
would have taken a 1000 years ... and more !
The GP builders had other type of instruments and knowledge.. and the
datations goes back according to the evident unconsolidated sedimentation of
the desert around, to a period anterior to that overlay !
...and the Syenite quarries of Ashuan or Syène are filled with that material
..... and although the arguments regarding sand blown dunes is valid, where
is the sand coming in the first place, as well rounded pebbles cannot be
blown away... and the Egyptian desert is made of Erg and Reg as well.
There is no relation indeed in the making of the 3 great Pyramids, and all
the others are just pale and more recent imitation of such.
AGAIN then, have Archaeologists have been boring a hole in a Basalt or
Porphyry Granite say with their Copper boring tools ?
Have they be cutting such material with their Copper Saws too ?
I BET NONE EVER DID SO EXCEPT IN THE PAGES OF BOOKS !
jip
"Eric Stevens" <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> a écrit dans le message de news:
72pld11d5ms6a809sinlb8u32r9vc2evuv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Jul 2005 00:49:33 +0200, "Jean-Paul Turcaud"
<mining_pioneer@com.yahøø> wrote:
"snip "
Its not a continuous thread. It's not even a spiral. It shows the
pattern of reversals in rotation from the bow that drove the drill.
... and what is the pace of that tool drilling through a very hard stone
indeed.?
About 7 on Mohs' scale and Copper tool ? less than 3 since you scratch it
anytime with a piece of calcite ?
Well, the scale of the core is indicated but it is evident that the tool
had
a very high penetration rate with a continuous spiral grove all through.
No
mucking about indeed : Very High Pressure on the head or on the bit, High
speed and high penetration rate indeed ! ... and all this carried out with
hardness 3 tool on a hardness 7 material !!!
WHO DO YOU THINK YOU THE ARCHAEOLOGISTS ARE TRYING TO FOOLS WITH YOUR
UNENDING TRADELESS IDIOCIES !
I challenge any Archaeologist in the world and I backed in that by any
Geologist indeed, to show us how you are able to go Core drilling in
Granite
with any Copper tools as well as cutting a slab of hard rock with Copper
saw
!
The main Problem with Archaeologist is their crude & tradeless ignorance,
and further more as a result their incapacity at sorting chronologically
the
building methods !
INDEED THE OLDEST ONES ARE THE MOST INVOLVED AND THE BLURRED UNDERSTANDING
OF SUCH FACT LEADS TO LUDICROUS CONCLUSIONS !
With best regards
Eric Stevens
.
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