Science > Physics > Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Uncle Al" |
| Date: |
28 Jul 2003 04:15:02 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
D Chuhta wrote:
I am an eighth grade science teacher at Massabesic Junior High School
of
MSAD #57, in Waterboro, Maine. Two years ago I started a project
called Ask A Scientist. It involves weekly email communication
between a small group of students and a science/technology
professional. Each week, students will ask questions based upon a
theme (eg. daily routine, technology used, measurements used,
educational preparation), and create dialogue based on the
professional's response. The project lasts about 8 weeks.
Last fall, 40 individuals worked with my 100+ students. It was a
project
that the students referred to throughout the year because of the
meaningful
and current information that was transferred.
A commitment of one email per week is required. If you are involved
in active research or practice in the many fields of science and
technology, and you are interested in participating this year, please
let me know by emailing sending an email to:
dchuhta@fc.sad57.k12.me.us Be sure to include your name, your area of
expertise, and your current career. This information is critical to
match student interests with a corresponding professional.
If you wish to review further project details, please visit:
http://fc.sad57.k12.me.us/~dan_chuhta/ click on the Projects button,
and then click on the Ask a Scientist logo.
Thank you in advance, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Daniel Chuhta
(PS: I am in special need of individuals involved in marine biology,
and physics.)
(PPS: If you know of colleagues who would also be interested, please
have them contact me as well.)
Do they perform any lab work, or do they only talk? Science is
empirical. It is all very nice to talk about resistors, but until you
actually measure resistances you don't realize what the world is truly
about.
Frog's insides are not labeled or color-coded, mostly. Science isn't
about keeping a journal (diary). Science is about keeping a lab
notebook. Galileo paid a heavy price fighting for the right to think.
It's one thing to self-righteously ***** and moan about vegetarianism.
It's entirely another to slop and slaughter 50 hogs and thereby gain
an informed opinion about ham.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/eotvos.htm
(Do something naughty to physics)
.
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| User: "Minor Crank" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
28 Jul 2003 08:08:44 PM |
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"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3F259256.6347D0A@hate.spam.net...
D Chuhta wrote:
I am an eighth grade science teacher at Massabesic Junior High School
of
MSAD #57, in Waterboro, Maine. Two years ago I started a project
called Ask A Scientist. It involves weekly email communication
between a small group of students and a science/technology
professional. Each week, students will ask questions based upon a
theme (eg. daily routine, technology used, measurements used,
educational preparation), and create dialogue based on the
professional's response. The project lasts about 8 weeks.
Last fall, 40 individuals worked with my 100+ students. It was a
project
that the students referred to throughout the year because of the
meaningful
and current information that was transferred.
A commitment of one email per week is required. If you are involved
in active research or practice in the many fields of science and
technology, and you are interested in participating this year, please
let me know by emailing sending an email to:
dchuhta@fc.sad57.k12.me.us Be sure to include your name, your area of
expertise, and your current career. This information is critical to
match student interests with a corresponding professional.
If you wish to review further project details, please visit:
http://fc.sad57.k12.me.us/~dan_chuhta/ click on the Projects button,
and then click on the Ask a Scientist logo.
Thank you in advance, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Daniel Chuhta
(PS: I am in special need of individuals involved in marine biology,
and physics.)
(PPS: If you know of colleagues who would also be interested, please
have them contact me as well.)
Do they perform any lab work, or do they only talk? Science is
empirical. It is all very nice to talk about resistors, but until you
actually measure resistances you don't realize what the world is truly
about.
Frog's insides are not labeled or color-coded, mostly. Science isn't
about keeping a journal (diary). Science is about keeping a lab
notebook. Galileo paid a heavy price fighting for the right to think.
It's one thing to self-righteously ***** and moan about vegetarianism.
It's entirely another to slop and slaughter 50 hogs and thereby gain
an informed opinion about ham.
Er...
What do your comments have to do with Daniel's request for volunteer help?
Minor Crank
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
29 Jul 2003 04:12:39 AM |
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In article <wOjVa.2543$o%2.2262@sccrnsc02>,
"Minor Crank" <blue_whaleANTISPAM@comcast.net> wrote:
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3F259256.6347D0A@hate.spam.net...
D Chuhta wrote:
I am an eighth grade science teacher at Massabesic Junior High School
of
MSAD #57, in Waterboro, Maine. Two years ago I started a project
called Ask A Scientist. It involves weekly email communication
between a small group of students and a science/technology
professional. Each week, students will ask questions based upon a
theme (eg. daily routine, technology used, measurements used,
educational preparation), and create dialogue based on the
professional's response. The project lasts about 8 weeks.
Last fall, 40 individuals worked with my 100+ students. It was a
project
that the students referred to throughout the year because of the
meaningful
and current information that was transferred.
A commitment of one email per week is required. If you are involved
in active research or practice in the many fields of science and
technology, and you are interested in participating this year, please
let me know by emailing sending an email to:
dchuhta@fc.sad57.k12.me.us Be sure to include your name, your area of
expertise, and your current career. This information is critical to
match student interests with a corresponding professional.
If you wish to review further project details, please visit:
http://fc.sad57.k12.me.us/~dan_chuhta/ click on the Projects button,
and then click on the Ask a Scientist logo.
Thank you in advance, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Daniel Chuhta
(PS: I am in special need of individuals involved in marine biology,
and physics.)
(PPS: If you know of colleagues who would also be interested, please
have them contact me as well.)
Do they perform any lab work, or do they only talk? Science is
empirical. It is all very nice to talk about resistors, but until you
actually measure resistances you don't realize what the world is truly
about.
Frog's insides are not labeled or color-coded, mostly. Science isn't
about keeping a journal (diary). Science is about keeping a lab
notebook. Galileo paid a heavy price fighting for the right to think.
It's one thing to self-righteously ***** and moan about vegetarianism.
It's entirely another to slop and slaughter 50 hogs and thereby gain
an informed opinion about ham.
Er...
What do your comments have to do with Daniel's request for volunteer help?
Everything. If the kids don't do lab work, it limits the scope
of any discussion. There isn't any point in talking about lab
equipment and its if the kids have no idea what the stuff looks
like. Science is about doing, not yakking. If the scientist
says milliliters, how is the kid going to know if he needs a vat
or a test tube. For that matter, how is a kid, who has never seen
lab equipment, to know the capacity of a test tube?
These kids are in the US; it is not known if they know how
to measure in anything but feet and thumbs.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
.
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| User: "D Chuhta" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
29 Jul 2003 10:40:31 AM |
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wrote in message news:<bg5hdk$ra0$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...
In article <wOjVa.2543$o%2.2262@sccrnsc02>,
"Minor Crank" <blue_whaleANTISPAM@comcast.net> wrote:
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3F259256.6347D0A@hate.spam.net...
D Chuhta wrote:
I am an eighth grade science teacher at Massabesic Junior High School
of
MSAD #57, in Waterboro, Maine. Two years ago I started a project
called Ask A Scientist. It involves weekly email communication
between a small group of students and a science/technology
professional. Each week, students will ask questions based upon a
theme (eg. daily routine, technology used, measurements used,
educational preparation), and create dialogue based on the
professional's response. The project lasts about 8 weeks.
Last fall, 40 individuals worked with my 100+ students. It was a
project
that the students referred to throughout the year because of the
meaningful
and current information that was transferred.
A commitment of one email per week is required. If you are involved
in active research or practice in the many fields of science and
technology, and you are interested in participating this year, please
let me know by emailing sending an email to:
dchuhta@fc.sad57.k12.me.us Be sure to include your name, your area of
expertise, and your current career. This information is critical to
match student interests with a corresponding professional.
If you wish to review further project details, please visit:
http://fc.sad57.k12.me.us/~dan_chuhta/ click on the Projects button,
and then click on the Ask a Scientist logo.
Thank you in advance, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Daniel Chuhta
(PS: I am in special need of individuals involved in marine biology,
and physics.)
(PPS: If you know of colleagues who would also be interested, please
have them contact me as well.)
Do they perform any lab work, or do they only talk? Science is
empirical. It is all very nice to talk about resistors, but until you
actually measure resistances you don't realize what the world is truly
about.
Frog's insides are not labeled or color-coded, mostly. Science isn't
about keeping a journal (diary). Science is about keeping a lab
notebook. Galileo paid a heavy price fighting for the right to think.
It's one thing to self-righteously ***** and moan about vegetarianism.
It's entirely another to slop and slaughter 50 hogs and thereby gain
an informed opinion about ham.
Er...
What do your comments have to do with Daniel's request for volunteer help?
Everything. If the kids don't do lab work, it limits the scope
of any discussion. There isn't any point in talking about lab
equipment and its if the kids have no idea what the stuff looks
like. Science is about doing, not yakking. If the scientist
says milliliters, how is the kid going to know if he needs a vat
or a test tube. For that matter, how is a kid, who has never seen
lab equipment, to know the capacity of a test tube?
These kids are in the US; it is not known if they know how
to measure in anything but feet and thumbs.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
Thank you!
And allow me to add a new line...'A picture tells a thousand words."
While I agree that learing scientifc skills and concepts is most
effectively acheived by seeing and touching the real thing, there are
sometimes limitations that prevent this from happening. For example,
I teach many things for which I don't have an example to show. I
don't have a specimen of every single rock and mineral we discuss. I
don't have a scanning tunneling microscope to show the students an
atom when we talk about them. Unfortunatly, I can't show the students
what it is like to have a frictionless environment when we talk about
Newton's first law. ( though I can get close). Then, when we learn
about the HUMAN body systems, I don't have a cadaver to show the
students, not only what the organs/tissues/etc. look like, but show
them as they function. Heck.. I don't even have running water in my
science classroom! If I had a $1 million budget, maybe I'd be able to
do some of this. But in the meantime... Have you been into a rural
public science classroom lately to see what we have to work with? We
try hard to do enough to give the students a good base understanding
of a variety of topics. We'd have a very short year if I could only
teach the things I had materials to help demonstrate with. I don't
expect them to leave my class with a Ph.D. in each area.
So... if you consider the valuable correspondence the students and
professionals have had "yakking," so be it. But I think it's
wonderful that so many professionals (from all over the country) have
been willing to participate, and help the students understand what the
do, without actually being in the room.
By the way... measuring with the SI is something we cover. It'll take
the whole country going to it in order for it to really sink in,
however.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
30 Jul 2003 04:34:57 AM |
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In article <d3b1a382.0307290740.62954bfd@posting.google.com>,
(D Chuhta) wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote in message news:<bg5hdk$ra0$1@bob.news.rcn.net>...
In article <wOjVa.2543$o%2.2262@sccrnsc02>,
"Minor Crank" <blue_whaleANTISPAM@comcast.net> wrote:
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3F259256.6347D0A@hate.spam.net...
D Chuhta wrote:
I am an eighth grade science teacher at Massabesic Junior High
School
of
MSAD #57, in Waterboro, Maine. Two years ago I started a project
called Ask A Scientist. It involves weekly email communication
between a small group of students and a science/technology
professional. Each week, students will ask questions based upon a
theme (eg. daily routine, technology used, measurements used,
educational preparation), and create dialogue based on the
professional's response. The project lasts about 8 weeks.
Last fall, 40 individuals worked with my 100+ students. It was a
project
that the students referred to throughout the year because of the
meaningful
and current information that was transferred.
A commitment of one email per week is required. If you are
involved
in active research or practice in the many fields of science and
technology, and you are interested in participating this year,
please
let me know by emailing sending an email to:
Be sure to include your name, your area
of
expertise, and your current career. This information is critical
to
match student interests with a corresponding professional.
If you wish to review further project details, please visit:
http://fc.sad57.k12.me.us/~dan_chuhta/ click on the Projects
button,
and then click on the Ask a Scientist logo.
Thank you in advance, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Sincerely,
Daniel Chuhta
(PS: I am in special need of individuals involved in marine
biology,
and physics.)
(PPS: If you know of colleagues who would also be interested,
please
have them contact me as well.)
Do they perform any lab work, or do they only talk? Science is
empirical. It is all very nice to talk about resistors, but until
you
actually measure resistances you don't realize what the world is
truly
about.
Frog's insides are not labeled or color-coded, mostly. Science
isn't
about keeping a journal (diary). Science is about keeping a lab
notebook. Galileo paid a heavy price fighting for the right to
think.
It's one thing to self-righteously ***** and moan about vegetarianism.
It's entirely another to slop and slaughter 50 hogs and thereby gain
an informed opinion about ham.
Er...
What do your comments have to do with Daniel's request for volunteer
help?
Everything. If the kids don't do lab work, it limits the scope
of any discussion. There isn't any point in talking about lab
equipment and its if the kids have no idea what the stuff looks
like. Science is about doing, not yakking. If the scientist
says milliliters, how is the kid going to know if he needs a vat
or a test tube. For that matter, how is a kid, who has never seen
lab equipment, to know the capacity of a test tube?
These kids are in the US; it is not known if they know how
to measure in anything but feet and thumbs.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
Thank you!
And allow me to add a new line...'A picture tells a thousand words."
Some days it does; other days it doesn't.
While I agree that learing scientifc skills and concepts is most
effectively acheived by seeing and touching the real thing, there are
sometimes limitations that prevent this from happening.
I understand that. All this bickering around is trying to do is
for you to give an outline of what limitations you do have.
Look, some scientists don't have the patience for the basic stuff.
Others do. Getting an idea of the background your kids have
will help people who do the work decide if they are willing to
spend the time. Trying to teach over the internet via this
form of a medium (newsgroups and even chat rooms) is one
of the most difficult things I've encountered.
.. For example,
I teach many things for which I don't have an example to show. I
don't have a specimen of every single rock and mineral we discuss. I
don't have a scanning tunneling microscope to show the students an
atom when we talk about them.
When I was a kid, we didn't have a lot either but companies
in the area did and we had class trips. I've heard that,
due to idiotic lawsuits, that insurance companies have
managed to deter this practice.
..Unfortunatly, I can't show the students
what it is like to have a frictionless environment when we talk about
Newton's first law. ( though I can get close). Then, when we learn
about the HUMAN body systems, I don't have a cadaver to show the
students, not only what the organs/tissues/etc. look like, but show
them as they function. Heck.. I don't even have running water in my
science classroom!
Unbelievable. There was running water in classrooms[emoticon does
age calculation] 40 years ago. Did somebody drown? Sorry, I just
get disgusted with "new and improved" facilites being bassackwards.
.. If I had a $1 million budget, maybe I'd be able to
do some of this. But in the meantime... Have you been into a rural
public science classroom lately to see what we have to work with?
No, not lately. But I attended one way back when. And that was
at a time when, on career day, I got stuck listening the forestry
guy because they didn't know where else to put me (my plan
was to do some stuff that required getting a marine biology set
of degrees of some form). I got a lecture every week about how
I didn't want to grow up to be a scientist. And still, with
that repressive attitude, there were test tubes and microscopes
and other basic lab equipment in the science rooms.
.. We
try hard to do enough to give the students a good base understanding
of a variety of topics. We'd have a very short year if I could only
teach the things I had materials to help demonstrate with. I don't
expect them to leave my class with a Ph.D. in each area.
So... if you consider the valuable correspondence the students and
professionals have had "yakking," so be it.
When I talked about yakking, I was talking about being able
to use words and phrases without having to worry about defining
them. Thus, a hint about the experiences these kids have had
is useful. Yakking is very important but each discipline has
its own special meanings for common nouns. Each discipline
has evolved its own shortcuts w.r.t. language.
... But I think it's
wonderful that so many professionals (from all over the country) have
been willing to participate, and help the students understand what the
do, without actually being in the room.
I didn't mean in imply that your idea is bad. I think it's good.
You happened to spur a long-running ***** session that's been
going on for a year :-). The question posed is still a valid
one and you haven't answered it yet. What kinds of facilities
do these kids have? You don't have running water. That is
important to know. It kinda limits what these kids can do when
they play, but it's a piece of information.
By the way... measuring with the SI is something we cover. It'll take
the whole country going to it in order for it to really sink in,
however.
That why labs are important. When you have to conversions, you
get to appreciate non-gallon measuring systems almost immediately.
Take them into the kitchen. Have them do recipe conversions,
especially if it involves butter.
If you're in a real rural school, the home ec room will have
running water....or am I being naive again?
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
.
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| User: "Bill Vajk" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
29 Jul 2003 07:40:36 AM |
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wrote:
In article <wOjVa.2543$o%2.2262@sccrnsc02>,
"Minor Crank" <blue_whaleANTISPAM@comcast.net> wrote:
significant snippage
Er...
What do your comments have to do with Daniel's request for volunteer help?
Everything. If the kids don't do lab work, it limits the scope
of any discussion. There isn't any point in talking about lab
equipment and its if the kids have no idea what the stuff looks
like. Science is about doing, not yakking. If the scientist
says milliliters, how is the kid going to know if he needs a vat
or a test tube. For that matter, how is a kid, who has never seen
lab equipment, to know the capacity of a test tube?
These kids are in the US; it is not known if they know how
to measure in anything but feet and thumbs.
There are two sorts of learning. The first is direct learning,
by experience. The second, and far more frequent, is indirect
which lacks hands on experience. Based on life experience we
are able to convert indirectly learned information into valuable
knowledge. Pictures in terms of photographs and other visual
aids round out much of what is lacking when indirect experience
is all that is available.
This discussion started with a teacher asking for help from
professional scientists in an educational setting. What has
jumped out at this teacher doing their best is a form of
unwarranted criticism. Coupling direct experience to the
educational format is the ideal, but is often constrained
by budgetary considerations.
If the scientist
says milliliters, how is the kid going to know if he needs a vat
or a test tube. For that matter, how is a kid, who has never seen
lab equipment, to know the capacity of a test tube?
That's partly the point of the request. An outside scientist
answers questions the kids ask using unfamiliar terms. That
forms the beginning of a new branch discussion. The teacher
who might not have a test tube available brings in jars and
cans of food and other produce and does a segment on capacity.
How many adults in this world have ever seen a real live test
tube? The greatest exposure to milliliters these days appears
to be by watching classmates using a syringe and learning
spoon capacity. Better those without better resources learn
science any way they can. It is better to have exposure than
not. Where an interest is perked the student is not helpless
but usually participates in expanding their knowledge outside
the classroom setting.
Classic was the case of Edison who had a little science lab
tucked away in a corner of the baggage car on which he was
earning his pennies selling newspapers. He ahd his priorities,
even as a kid. Science may require having hands on. And while
that's preferable in education, which is, after all, the
subject, it isn't always possible. This teacher is doing
education, not science, and I applaud the efforts taken
to expand the childrens' experience.
Minor crank was right to ask his question. What did Al's
answer have to do with offering help. Your answer is
meaningless in context, because the actual answer is
"nothing at all."
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
29 Jul 2003 07:46:18 AM |
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In article <3F266951.1040904@hotmailDITCHTHIS.com>,
Bill Vajk <bill9north@hotmailDITCHTHIS.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
In article <wOjVa.2543$o%2.2262@sccrnsc02>,
"Minor Crank" <blue_whaleANTISPAM@comcast.net> wrote:
significant snippage
Er...
What do your comments have to do with Daniel's request for volunteer
help?
Everything. If the kids don't do lab work, it limits the scope
of any discussion. There isn't any point in talking about lab
equipment and its if the kids have no idea what the stuff looks
like. Science is about doing, not yakking. If the scientist
says milliliters, how is the kid going to know if he needs a vat
or a test tube. For that matter, how is a kid, who has never seen
lab equipment, to know the capacity of a test tube?
These kids are in the US; it is not known if they know how
to measure in anything but feet and thumbs.
There are two sorts of learning. The first is direct learning,
by experience. The second, and far more frequent, is indirect
which lacks hands on experience. Based on life experience we
are able to convert indirectly learned information into valuable
knowledge. Pictures in terms of photographs and other visual
aids round out much of what is lacking when indirect experience
is all that is available.
This discussion started with a teacher asking for help from
professional scientists in an educational setting. What has
jumped out at this teacher doing their best is a form of
unwarranted criticism.
I didn't read it as criticism. I read it as a limit to what
could be done. Uncle could also be giving a half-hearted
maybe for him to do it. You are so damned stuck in taking
everything Uncle says as a criticism of the poster that you
don't bother to think.
..Coupling direct experience to the
educational format is the ideal,
No, it's not an ideal. It is necessary. Anything else is a waste
of the kids' learning time.
.. but is often constrained
by budgetary considerations.
Oh, that's just nuts. You've been listening to too many fucking
teacher unions and politicians.
If the scientist
says milliliters, how is the kid going to know if he needs a vat
or a test tube. For that matter, how is a kid, who has never seen
lab equipment, to know the capacity of a test tube?
That's partly the point of the request. An outside scientist
answers questions the kids ask using unfamiliar terms.
And it's a waste of the kids' time and the scientists' time
if there isn't anything physical for those kids to use.
..That
forms the beginning of a new branch discussion. The teacher
who might not have a test tube available brings in jars and
cans of food and other produce and does a segment on capacity.
How many adults in this world have ever seen a real live test
tube?
In my high school graduating every damned last one of them.
<snip>
Minor crank was right to ask his question. What did Al's
answer have to do with offering help.
He is a lab guy and has a very bruque manner. Asking about
labs was germaine to any of the "discussions" those kids might
have. Science is all about labs and what goes on in them.
It isn't about yakking; that only trains cranks.
.Your answer is
meaningless in context, because the actual answer is
"nothing at all."
No, that's what you insist all of Uncle's posts have to be.
Without labs, teaching science is meaningless. Experimentation
is at the heart of the Scientific Method. Without that, all
you have meaningless philosophy..at best.
/BAH
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
.
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| User: "Bill Vajk" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
29 Jul 2003 08:59:19 AM |
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wrote:
Bill Vajk
.Your answer is
meaningless in context, because the actual answer is
"nothing at all."
No, that's what you insist all of Uncle's posts have to be.
Without labs, teaching science is meaningless. Experimentation
is at the heart of the Scientific Method. Without that, all
you have meaningless philosophy..at best.
"middle school."
.
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| User: "Rob Fatland" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
29 Jul 2003 10:21:22 AM |
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wrote:
It's almost too late if you're starting to teach science in
middle school.
Dan (the original poster) is doing a good job teaching kids science.
He requested volunteers to talk to his students.
From personal experience, volunteering time to talk to kids about
science is
a) extremely rewarding and enlightening for the scientist
b) extremely rewarding and enlightening for the students
The students learn a lot about what science is and what science isn't.
The same process works beautifully with adults, in particular with
teachers. There is no age limit on learning.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
30 Jul 2003 04:15:00 AM |
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In article <3F2690F2.E000B302@vexcel.com>,
Rob Fatland <fatland@vexcel.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
It's almost too late if you're starting to teach science in
middle school.
Dan (the original poster) is doing a good job teaching kids science.
I'm not disagreeing with that.
He requested volunteers to talk to his students.
Yes.
From personal experience, volunteering time to talk to kids about
science is
a) extremely rewarding and enlightening for the scientist
b) extremely rewarding and enlightening for the students
The students learn a lot about what science is and what science isn't.
The same process works beautifully with adults, in particular with
teachers. There is no age limit on learning.
Fine. The question posed (are there labs) is still a valid
datum (I'm not discussing how the question was posed). If
I were to join a chat room dealing with computing, I would
certainly need to know if the kids had access to gear and
software and what kinds of gear and software before I even
started spending any time yakking. You've got to know who
your "customers" are before you start trying to talk about
anything.
If these kids haven't been exposed to basic lab gear or
techniques, the discussions will be limited to generalities.
Not much detail can be typed in because these kids won't have
the language, the meaning, nor the experience that would
normally be a given in other science discussions.
For instance, assume Bill V. is correct and they've never seen
a test tube and have no idea what its use is. There's no
point in using the term in any sentence until that term has
been explained.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
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| User: "Rob Fatland" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
30 Jul 2003 10:57:50 AM |
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wrote:
The question posed (are there labs) is still a valid datum
Sure but that will become apparent as the project gets underway. Should a
scientist get involved in something like this? If his answer is "only if
the kids are doing labs" then yeah probably not.
If these kids haven't been exposed to basic lab gear or techniques, the
discussions will be limited to generalities."
This presumes the scientist in question is a poor communicator. I know an
astronomy teacher who can describe to a roomful of 5th graders in gory
detail how solar spectroscopy works and not one of those kids misses a
beat. Not only do they get it, they think its really cool and they can't
wait to go outside and compare Rigel to Betelgeuse.
For instance, assume Bill V. is correct and they've never seen a test
tube and have no idea what its use is. There's no point in using the term
in any sentence until that term has been explained.
Sure but those last two sentences took more time to write/read than an
explanation of a test tube. Explaining science just isn't that hard, and
every student has spent the past 10-12-14 years as a scientist figuring
out how this world works. If they're interested in talking to you, you
can't ask for a better audience.
Again I am speaking entirely from personal experience teaching kids. Labs
can be great but it would be the great pity of the world to imagine that
they are the only means to learning about science.
r
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
31 Jul 2003 04:44:28 AM |
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In article <3F27EAFE.98BD6B76@vexcel.com>,
Rob Fatland <fatland@vexcel.com> wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
The question posed (are there labs) is still a valid datum
Sure but that will become apparent as the project gets underway. Should a
scientist get involved in something like this? If his answer is "only if
the kids are doing labs" then yeah probably not.
It sure isn't fun nor efficient to "teach" somebody who doesn't
practice. In one ear, out the other. If I were somebody who
spent most of my waking hours in a lab, I'd probably want to talk
about lab work; if these kids couldn't understand about the simplest
lab procedures, yakking _at_ them would be just that.
If these kids haven't been exposed to basic lab gear or techniques, the
discussions will be limited to generalities."
This presumes the scientist in question is a poor communicator.
Some are and some aren't. Even those who can communicate well can't
communciate anything if the language used is completely unfamiliar to
the communicatees.
.. I know an
astronomy teacher who can describe to a roomful of 5th graders in gory
detail how solar spectroscopy works and not one of those kids misses a
beat. Not only do they get it, they think its really cool and they can't
wait to go outside and compare Rigel to Betelgeuse.
Now reread that last sentence. The kids do lab work.
For instance, assume Bill V. is correct and they've never seen a test
tube and have no idea what its use is. There's no point in using the term
in any sentence until that term has been explained.
Sure but those last two sentences took more time to write/read than an
explanation of a test tube. Explaining science just isn't that hard, and
every student has spent the past 10-12-14 years as a scientist figuring
out how this world works. If they're interested in talking to you, you
can't ask for a better audience.
Again I am speaking entirely from personal experience teaching kids. Labs
can be great but it would be the great pity of the world to imagine that
they are the only means to learning about science.
Where did I say that labs are the ONLY means to learning about science?
It is a step in the Scientific Method. That means that it is an
integral part of learning about how to do science. Science learning
without experimentation is history.
/BAH
Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail.
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| User: "Rob Fatland" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
31 Jul 2003 11:17:07 AM |
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Look, I disagree with your point of view but let's cut to the chase:
Here's my hidden agenda: Scientists in general give very little back and can't
understand why they have a hard time getting their research funded. Why don't
they spend more time with kids? Well, cause they choose not to. And in the
extreme they even indulge in criticism of the education system without even
participating in it to find out how it really works. The strikes me as an
arrogant, self-righteous and ultimately self-defeating pasttime. Do you curse
the darkness or light a candle?
So here you have Daniel asking for volunteeers, and immediately there is this
discussion of "are they doing labs?" It appears to me to be nothing more than
an excuse to not get involved.
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| User: "Bill Vajk" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
29 Jul 2003 12:26:49 PM |
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Bill Vajk wrote:
jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote:
Bill Vajk
.Your answer is
meaningless in context, because the actual answer is
"nothing at all."
No, that's what you insist all of Uncle's posts have to be.
Without labs, teaching science is meaningless. Experimentation
is at the heart of the Scientific Method. Without that, all
you have meaningless philosophy..at best.
"middle school."
This page came up in the context of another discussion
so I thought to add to this one.
http://homer.hcrhs.k12.nj.us/sol/physics/hertz.html
The students barely have arithmetic under their belts. They're
at the introductory stage for science material. If you look at
the number of terms that an undergrad is expected to know but
kids k-12 are just learning it should be obvious that the kids
have their hands full just dealing with the nomenclature being
thrown at them.
They hardly need hands on in class to see a pendulum demo either
real time or in a book. They can repeat it, it they want to, at
home using fishing weights and monofilament line. At the core
of the physical sciences is mathematics. Math lab anyone? Your
vapid comment about meaningless philosophy completely neglects
the fact that many do not require visual representations, let
along touch, taste, and feel, in order to understand science
to the best of their abilities. In any case, there's plenty of
time for that in high school.
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| User: "Steve Harris" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
28 Jul 2003 05:06:36 PM |
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"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3F259256.6347D0A@hate.spam.net...
It's one thing to self-righteously ***** and moan about
vegetarianism.
It's entirely another to slop and slaughter 50 hogs and
thereby gain
an informed opinion about ham.
Experience keeps a dear school; but a fool will learn in no
other.
SBH
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| User: "Edward Green" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
28 Jul 2003 09:27:29 PM |
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"Steve Harris" <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote in message news:<bg46pb$i56$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>...
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:3F259256.6347D0A@hate.spam.net...
It's one thing to self-righteously ***** and moan about
vegetarianism.
It's entirely another to slop and slaughter 50 hogs and
thereby gain
an informed opinion about ham.
Experience keeps a dear school; but a fool will learn in no
other.
Some days we are smart, and some days we are not so smart: and if you
are smart every day, count your blessing and hold your ridicule.
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| User: "Steve Harris" |
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| Title: Re: Participants Needed For a Middle School Project |
31 Jul 2003 06:36:08 PM |
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"Edward Green" <nulldev00@aol.com> wrote in message
news:2a0cceff.0307281827.757f9cd5@posting.google.com...
Some days we are smart, and some days we are not so smart:
and if you
are smart every day, count your blessing and hold your
ridicule.
"In this life one must be oh-so-clever or oh-so-nice. In my
youth I was clever; now I recommend 'nice.' "
Mary Coyle Chase
"Harvey"
Attention Uncle Al: this quote was actually written
preternaturally especially for you. You can find it in the
dictionary next to "Pooka." No, not that kind of pooka....
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