Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz.



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Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer"
Date: 27 Sep 2005 03:55:17 PM
Object: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz.

He had the idea, you didnt, queer.


ahahaha... Who cares, scroatface? It was
a stupid idea to begin with.

It has always bothered me that when Penzias and Wilson got the Nobel Prize that no one from the Princeton group was included (Dicke, Peebles, anybody). Of course, P and W already some observations from their antenna and had inadvertantly done the correct experiment with no prior knowledge.
In the present case, its not clear to me that Luo or anybody else would have tried the full parity Eotvos experiment without some prior basis for doing so.
Also in the present case, the actual results are not yet peer reviewed and published.
.

User: "Thomas Johnson"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 27 Sep 2005 05:02:18 PM
Anonymous via the Cypherpunks Tonga Remailer wrote:

He had the idea, you didnt, queer.


ahahaha... Who cares, scroatface? It was
a stupid idea to begin with.


It has always bothered me that when Penzias and Wilson got the Nobel Prize that no one from the Princeton group was included (Dicke, Peebles, anybody). Of course, P and W already some observations from their antenna and had inadvertantly done the correct experiment with no prior knowledge.

In the present case, its not clear to me that Luo or anybody else would have tried the full parity Eotvos experiment without some prior basis for doing so.

While the citation will generally note a specific discovery, Nobel
prizes are given to people who have a significant body of work.
Publications on maple syrup don't really stand up to the required
level.
A person has to have advanced understanding, not just made blind
guesses. Qz.pdf does not advance the understanding of gravity,
relativity or, really, any physics. It presents a calculation of a
geometrical quantity of quartz that is completely uninteresting. No
tie is made of this quantitiy, CHI, to any real physics.
If anyone must cling to the idea, "Scwhartz suggested quartz"--Lastly,
Nobel prizes citations have noted people who made discoveries suggested
by others.
http://nobelprize.org/physics/laureates/1995/index.html


Also in the present case, the actual results are not yet peer reviewed and published.

In the present case, we have no proof that an actual discovery has been
made. So far, all we know is that Scwhartz was cut out of the loop.
Since he feels that they wouldn't do this unless there was a discovery,
he concludes there was a discovery. Not a lot to hang your hat upon,
eh?
Thomas.
.
User: "Traveler"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 27 Sep 2005 05:11:50 PM
On 27 Sep 2005 15:02:18 -0700, "Thomas Johnson"
<thomas_johnson00@hotmail.com> wrote:

In the present case, we have no proof that an actual discovery has been
made. So far, all we know is that Scwhartz was cut out of the loop.
Since he feels that they wouldn't do this unless there was a discovery,
he concludes there was a discovery. Not a lot to hang your hat upon,
eh?

There is no need to wait for the published paper to know there was no
discovery. This whole thing flies in the face of logic. I am surprised
that anybody bothered to conduct the experiment. It's a sad commentary
on the state of fundamental physics, especially in matters having to
do with gravity.
Louis Savain
Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
.

User: "Dirk Bruere at Neopax"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 27 Sep 2005 05:49:16 PM
Thomas Johnson wrote:

A person has to have advanced understanding, not just made blind
guesses.

And the guys who discovered the first hitemp superconductors were doing what,
exactly?
--
Dirk
The Consensus:-
The political party for the new millenium
http://www.theconsensus.org
.
User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 27 Sep 2005 06:28:40 PM
Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:


Thomas Johnson wrote:

A person has to have advanced understanding, not just made blind
guesses.


And the guys who discovered the first hitemp superconductors were doing what,
exactly?

Bednorz and Müller were Officially looking for large-Cp cryogenic
ceramic insulation for supercon solenoids. When IBM/Zurick discovered
- after about two years - that they had "embezzled lab funds, notice
in writing went out that the pair was liable for civil prosecution,
compensatory and punitive damages to be sought.
One presumes Management found the 1987 Nobel Prize in Physics to be
intrusive and contradictory to Korporate Kulture. I lost track - did
the two keep their jobs?
Kary Mullis was drunk and/or stoned, driving up to his Mendicino,
California cabin, when road boredom sprang PCR into is mind. His PCR
paper was rejected by "Science." 1993 Nobel Prize in Chemistry.
Hey stooopid Schultzy, we both know the full parity Eotvos experiment
worked. General Relativity is empirically falsified, as is Lorentz
Invariance. Uncle Al on one 11 December, "Bra, tack så mycket."
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1290/tacksaam.wav
Uncle Al has subcontracted your technical career to Moloch-ha-Movis.
Tsadik katamar yifrach.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.
User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 27 Sep 2005 06:31:50 PM
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:4339D5A8.49C88CCA@hate.spam.net...
[snip crap]
So they told you to *****, eh?
ROFLMAO!
Androcles
.
User: "Eric Gisse"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 27 Sep 2005 08:31:16 PM
Androcles wrote:

"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:4339D5A8.49C88CCA@hate.spam.net...
[snip crap]

So they told you to *****, eh?
ROFLMAO!

Androcles

I was wondering how you would respond. I was hoping for something to
the tune of "I told you so! GR IS WRONG!". Nope - abject denial in any
event.
Androcles, you really do occupy your own universe.
.

User: "NunYa Bidness"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 27 Sep 2005 07:16:29 PM
On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:31:50 GMT, "Androcles" <Androcles@ MyPlace.org>
Gave us:


"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:4339D5A8.49C88CCA@hate.spam.net...
[snip crap]

So they told you to *****, eh?
ROFLMAO!

You're an idiot. *****.
.


User: "Traveler"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 27 Sep 2005 06:43:32 PM
Uncle ***** wrote:

Hey stooopid Schultzy, we both know the full parity Eotvos experiment
worked. General Relativity is empirically falsified, as is Lorentz
Invariance. Uncle Al on one 11 December, "Bra, tack så mycket."

ahahaha... You're entitled to believe in your own *****, of course.
Louis Savain
Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
.

User: "Thomas Johnson"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 27 Sep 2005 06:51:24 PM
Uncle Al wrote:

Dirk Bruere at Neopax wrote:


Thomas Johnson wrote:

A person has to have advanced understanding, not just made blind
guesses.


And the guys who discovered the first hitemp superconductors were doing=

what,

exactly?


Bednorz and M=FCller were Officially looking for large-Cp cryogenic
ceramic insulation for supercon solenoids. When IBM/Zurick discovered
- after about two years - that they had "embezzled lab funds, notice
in writing went out that the pair was liable for civil prosecution,
compensatory and punitive damages to be sought.

And your citation would be? A URL, newspaper story, something,
anything?
A google search of Bednorz and "embezzled lab funds" comes up blank.
Odd since you are using quotation marks as though it is from a specific
source.
Besides, Research Staff at major industrial laboratories are typically
supposed to do 30% of their time on long-range projects outside of the
directed research. At the time, an IBM researcher would be judged
highly if he got a PRL or two a year. You don't do that working on
development projects.
Thomas.
.
User: "Richard Schultz"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 01:27:42 AM
In sci.chem Thomas Johnson <thomas_johnson00@hotmail.com> wrote:
: Uncle Al wrote:
:> Bednorz and M?ller were Officially looking for large-Cp cryogenic
:> ceramic insulation for supercon solenoids. When IBM/Zurick discovered
:> - after about two years - that they had "embezzled lab funds, notice
:> in writing went out that the pair was liable for civil prosecution,
:> compensatory and punitive damages to be sought.
: And your citation would be? A URL, newspaper story, something,
: anything?
:
: A google search of Bednorz and "embezzled lab funds" comes up blank.
: Odd since you are using quotation marks as though it is from a specific
: source.
Also, since in their Nobel prize speech, they talk about the various
kinds of equipment that their managers agreed to buy them. I find it
hard to believe that they could have managed to hide from their supervisors
what they were doing for the several years that they spent on the project.
I assume that Uncle Al figures that since he has the world convinced that
he really, really is working on the kg-sized diamond project, and that he
really, really does almost have it working, that Bednorz and Mueller could
easily have pulled off a similar fraud.
-----
Richard Schultz

Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"A mensch takes personal responsiblity for his actions. When demonstrated to
be empirically wrong a mensch admits error and becomes a better mensch."
-- "Uncle Al" Schwartz, in article <41D0A0BA.BCF76...@hate.spam.net>
.
User: "Thomas Johnson"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 11:25:18 PM
Richard Schultz wrote:

In sci.chem Thomas Johnson <thomas_johnson00@hotmail.com> wrote:
: Uncle Al wrote:

:> Bednorz and M?ller were Officially looking for large-Cp cryogenic
:> ceramic insulation for supercon solenoids. When IBM/Zurick discovered
:> - after about two years - that they had "embezzled lab funds, notice
:> in writing went out that the pair was liable for civil prosecution,
:> compensatory and punitive damages to be sought.

: And your citation would be? A URL, newspaper story, something,
: anything?
:
: A google search of Bednorz and "embezzled lab funds" comes up blank.
: Odd since you are using quotation marks as though it is from a specific
: source.

Also, since in their Nobel prize speech, they talk about the various
kinds of equipment that their managers agreed to buy them. I find it
hard to believe that they could have managed to hide from their supervisors
what they were doing for the several years that they spent on the project.
I assume that Uncle Al figures that since he has the world convinced that
he really, really is working on the kg-sized diamond project, and that he
really, really does almost have it working, that Bednorz and Mueller could
easily have pulled off a similar fraud.

Scwhartz must be busy--he still hasn't posted a URL giving proof to his
slanderous (or is it libelous?) remarks about Bednorz and Mueller.
It couldn't be that it was just that he made it up, could it?
Thomas.
.
User: "Richard Schultz"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 29 Sep 2005 03:34:50 AM
In sci.chem Thomas Johnson <thomas_johnson00@hotmail.com> wrote:
: Scwhartz must be busy--he still hasn't posted a URL giving proof to his
: slanderous (or is it libelous?) remarks about Bednorz and Mueller.
I think that it's just fairly far down on his priority list -- I asked
him for a reference to any source that backed up his claim that the
Milwaukee cryptosporidium outbreak was due to EPA regulations limiting
water chlorination what, two years ago? (Hint: he was lying when he
said that.) I guess you'll just have to wait your turn. Presumably
he'll have time for such details just after he gets his diamond fabrication
plant up and running.
: It couldn't be that it was just that he made it up, could it?

Uncle Al make something up? You must be kidding.
-----
Richard Schultz

Department of Chemistry, Bar-Ilan University, Ramat-Gan, Israel
Opinions expressed are mine alone, and not those of Bar-Ilan University
-----
"A mensch takes personal responsiblity for his actions. When demonstrated to
be empirically wrong a mensch admits error and becomes a better mensch."
-- "Uncle Al" Schwartz, in article <41D0A0BA.BCF76...@hate.spam.net>
.




User: ""

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 07:35:56 AM
Uncle Al wrote:

General Relativity is empirically falsified, as is Lorentz
Invariance. Uncle Al on one 11 December, "Bra, tack s=E5 mycket."

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1290/tacksaam.wav

Why do you claim that Lorentz Invariance is falsified? It's not clear
to me how this could be concluded from your experiment.
Chris
.
User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 11:58:37 AM
wrote:


Uncle Al wrote:

General Relativity is empirically falsified, as is Lorentz
Invariance. Uncle Al on one 11 December, "Bra, tack så mycket."

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1290/tacksaam.wav


Why do you claim that Lorentz Invariance is falsified? It's not clear
to me how this could be concluded from your experiment.

Chirality (handedness) is spatial anisotropy. Parity is chirality
along all coordinate axes with no directional bias. If opposite
parity single crystal test masses of identical chemical composition
vacuum free fall nonidentically, it can only be a diastereotopic
interaction with space itself - the relative geometry of opposite
parity nuclear mass positions incommensurably imbedded in the geometry
of anisotropic chiral space.
A reproducible generic Eotvos experiment net signal empirically
falsifies the Equivalence Principle as such. A reproducible parity
Eotvos experiment net signal empirically falsifies the Equivalence
Principle as such and Lorentz Invariance by mechanism. The latter
could disappear if anothe explanation for the EP violation surfaced.
Tell us how single crystal space group P3(1)21 quartz differs from
P3(2)21 quartz other than by relative location of atomic nuclei in
space.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.
User: "NunYa Bidness"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 05:58:41 PM
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 09:58:37 -0700, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net>
Gave us:

cmaj10@yahoo.com wrote:


Uncle Al wrote:

General Relativity is empirically falsified, as is Lorentz
Invariance. Uncle Al on one 11 December, "Bra, tack så mycket."

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1290/tacksaam.wav


Why do you claim that Lorentz Invariance is falsified? It's not clear
to me how this could be concluded from your experiment.


Chirality (handedness) is spatial anisotropy. Parity is chirality
along all coordinate axes with no directional bias. If opposite
parity single crystal test masses of identical chemical composition
vacuum free fall nonidentically, it can only be a diastereotopic
interaction with space itself - the relative geometry of opposite
parity nuclear mass positions incommensurably imbedded in the geometry
of anisotropic chiral space.

A reproducible generic Eotvos experiment net signal empirically
falsifies the Equivalence Principle as such. A reproducible parity
Eotvos experiment net signal empirically falsifies the Equivalence
Principle as such and Lorentz Invariance by mechanism. The latter
could disappear if anothe explanation for the EP violation surfaced.

Tell us how single crystal space group P3(1)21 quartz differs from
P3(2)21 quartz other than by relative location of atomic nuclei in
space.

You're the man, Al. Regardless of which way it goes.
.
User: "Traveler"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 06:11:10 PM
Mike Varney (aka NunYa Bidness) wrote:

You're the man, Al. Regardless of which way it goes.

Says the inveterate ***** kisser. ahahaha... AHAHAHA... ahahaha...
Louis Savain
Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
.


User: "Traveler"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 12:23:00 PM
Uncle ***** wrote:

If opposite
parity single crystal test masses of identical chemical composition
vacuum free fall nonidentically, it can only be a diastereotopic
interaction with space itself - the relative geometry of opposite
parity nuclear mass positions incommensurably imbedded in the geometry
of anisotropic chiral space.

This is the sort of intellectually incestuous ***** that one gets
from using a mathematical theory such as GR to derive physical
meaning. Space is an abstract math construct. Geometry, too, is
abstract. Math does not interact with particles of matter. Matter only
interacts with matter.
This entire Eotvos experiment is a perfect example of blind idiots
inspecting an elephant. It also shows the sort of crap one gets when
one insists on playing around with the same toys for too long.
Eventually, imagination takes over and science turns into
superstition. Spacetime physics is now synonymous with Star-Trek
voodoo, filled with religious relics like wormholes, time travel,
black holes, parallel universes, dimensions curled up into little
fucking balls, etc... There is no longer any physics in it, if there
ever was. It's been taken over by crap preachers and crap worshippers.
Is it any wonder that, centuries after Newton, humanity still has no
clue as to the causal mechanism of gravity? It's sad.
Louis Savain
Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
.
User: "NunYa Bidness"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 06:00:10 PM
On Wed, 28 Sep 2005 13:23:00 -0400, Traveler <traveler@nospam.net>
Gave us:


This entire Eotvos experiment is a perfect example of blind idiots
inspecting an elephant. It also shows the sort of crap one gets when
one insists on playing around with the same toys for too long.

You're that guy in the video of the elephant sitting on your upper
torso!
I've seen your head up an elephant's *****, boy!
.

User: "brian a m stuckless"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 02:30:30 PM
Traveler wrote:


Uncle ***** wrote:

If opposite
parity single crystal test masses of identical chemical composition
vacuum free fall nonidentically, it can only be a diastereotopic
interaction with space itself - the relative geometry of opposite
parity nuclear mass positions incommensurably imbedded in the geometry
of anisotropic chiral space.


This is the sort of intellectually incestuous ***** that one gets
from using a mathematical theory such as GR to derive physical
meaning. Space is an abstract math construct. Geometry, too, is
abstract. Math does not interact with particles of matter. Matter only
interacts with matter.

This entire Eotvos experiment is a perfect example of blind idiots
inspecting an elephant. It also shows the sort of crap one gets when
one insists on playing around with the same toys for too long.
Eventually, imagination takes over and science turns into
superstition. Spacetime physics is now synonymous with Star-Trek
voodoo, filled with religious relics like wormholes, time travel,
black holes, parallel universes, dimensions curled up into little
fucking balls, etc... There is no longer any physics in it, if there
ever was. It's been taken over by crap preachers and crap worshippers.
Is it any wonder that, centuries after Newton, humanity still has no
clue as to the causal mechanism of gravity? It's sad.

Louis Savain

Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm

The PROBLEM's going away.
.

User: "Attila the Bum"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 01:32:50 PM
Traveler wrote:

Uncle ***** wrote:

Not a good start, Looie.

If opposite
parity single crystal test masses of identical chemical composition
vacuum free fall nonidentically, it can only be a diastereotopic
interaction with space itself - the relative geometry of opposite
parity nuclear mass positions incommensurably imbedded in the geometry
of anisotropic chiral space.

He's talking mass and gravity here,
Looie.

This is the sort of intellectually incestuous ***** that one gets
from using a mathematical theory such as GR to derive physical
meaning. Space is an abstract math construct. Geometry, too, is
abstract. Math does not interact with particles of matter. Matter only
interacts with matter.

Let's clear the air, Looie.
Your position is, that gravity
is matter?

This entire Eotvos experiment is a perfect example of blind idiots
inspecting an elephant. It also shows the sort of crap one gets when
one insists on playing around with the same toys for too long.
Eventually, imagination takes over and science turns into
superstition. Spacetime physics is now synonymous with Star-Trek
voodoo, filled with religious relics like wormholes, time travel,
black holes, parallel universes, dimensions curled up into little
fucking balls, etc... There is no longer any physics in it, if there
ever was. It's been taken over by crap preachers and crap worshippers.
Is it any wonder that, centuries after Newton, humanity still has no
clue as to the causal mechanism of gravity? It's sad.

The experiment, if there is one, is
only a single instance; the elephant
story requires more than one.

Louis Savain

Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm

It's comforting to know that you
have the correct answer, Looie,
even though you don't want to share
it with the rest of us :-)
Atty (Atty notice, that when he
drop sumthin, it always
falls _down_!)
.
User: "Peter Kinane"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 02:25:21 PM
"Attila the Bum" <mark_tarka@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127932370.169718.255920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

It's comforting to know that you
have the correct answer, Looie,
even though you don't want to share
it with the rest of us :-)

Perhaps you would like to present an argument that The Effectuationism
Navigation Model is not a viable alternative to Special Relativity. If it is
a viable alternative then that makes much of Relativity in general
redundant. The Effectuationism Philosophy System, of course, makes every to
do with Relativity seem rather infantile. This may be an opening to progress
on the nature of gravity.
http://www.effectuationism.com/forum/messages/23/58.html?1125304474
* So, application of the Principles of the Effectuationism Navigation Model:
Through a frame of reference orbiting rocket (FoR-r) in relationship with
the Earth, movement of the Earth effects. Through the FoR-r in relation to
the Earth effect x,y and z-axes. FoR-r can also have eyes (rockets) at some
remove from itself 'along its orbit'. The other rockets can have
determinable co-ordinates based on the established axes. So, too, other
loops of rockets can be provided. The rockets can look outwards as well as
inwards. Thereby events inside and outside can be tracked as routes on the
co-ordinate system. A rotation of the Earth at 'the equator' can be standard
event speed (SES), when other moving bodies have been seen to move.
The conventional concepts of "Space" and "Independent Time" do not feature.
Further developed:
Rocket in relationship with the Earth. Let both have speeds such that the
Earth does not seem to move. Through this relationship of forces the rocket
can be frame of reference (FoR-r); FoR-r is a co-ordinate system and Earth
is a body in that system.
Now change the relationship of speeds such that the Earth is seen to rotate,
with different features coming and going repeatedly. Any such feature
inferentially would have a path in the co ordinates. For example, let it
commence as x_0, y_0 and z_1. (It is directly (in front, or) at one's
centre, but out a bit. Presumably there is not a problem in determining (and
retaining) the distance of the Earth from FoR-r and the other rockets). The
z value is continuous, but the body moves in the other two co-ordinates,
let's say, coming from East to West; from +x to -x. Simultaneous to its
movement into -x co-ordinates it moves into +y co-ordinates, then
progressing to its maximum in -x and medium in +y and on to x_0 and to
maximum in +y, then on to maximum in +x as it decreases to its medium in +y,
and then on to x_0 and y_0 again.
Now to observe it in a path such as has been inferred: FoR-r will have eyes
(rockets) 'along its orbit' giving the extended x and y co-ordinates as
inferred and in the context of z_1. The various x (and y) positions of the
rockets, which will be in the z_0 co-ordinate, can be determined if the z+1
value is sufficiently high to allow a ray of light from FoR-r over and back
to rocket-a (ra) and another ray from FoR-r over and back to rb (rocket-b),
and if, likewise, ra can measure the position of rb and rc, and similarly rb
can get the position of rc and rd ... or some refinement of same. It would
also be possible to cross-check the positions by FoR-r sending out rays of
light to rockets which are in the other direction. This would allow some
verification or averaging of the information. Indeed, the requirement above
that the rockets should be able to see more than one rocket at either side
is probably surplus to requirements. (Other variations, based on these
principles would also be possible).
Rockets in other loops can be positioned by similar procedures and related
to those already positioned. For these the z co-ordinate would not be
constant.
This system could then be technologically equipped to study other bodies.
It should be possible that the accumulated information of the system could
be transmitted to any co-ordinate in the system.
If one projects- -extends the frame of reference outwards or extrapolates,
to co-ordinates, of, for example, a travelling rocket and from this to
others, in quite different zones in the cosmos and at quite different
speeds, then the measuring processes aboard same will express these
conditions (gamma factors) and the data may require transformation for
subsequent journeys at different speeds, and of different materials, etc.,
according to trial and error. Also, the duration of the transmission process
should also be computed. *
--
Peter Kinane
http://www.effectuationism.com
.
User: "Attila the Bum"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 03:28:34 PM
Peter Kinane wrote:

"Attila the Bum" <mark_tarka@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1127932370.169718.255920@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

It's comforting to know that you
have the correct answer, Looie,
even though you don't want to share
it with the rest of us :-)


Perhaps you would like to present an argument that The Effectuationism
Navigation Model is not a viable alternative to Special Relativity. If it is
a viable alternative then that makes much of Relativity in general
redundant. The Effectuationism Philosophy System, of course, makes every to
do with Relativity seem rather infantile. This may be an opening to progress
on the nature of gravity.

I'm sticking wit de original
questionary: is Looie saying
"gravity is matter?"
[snip ...]
Youse can dunk yourselfs in verbage :-)
Atty (It is possible that Looie is just plain stoopid)
.


User: "Traveler"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 01:52:03 PM
On 28 Sep 2005 11:32:50 -0700, "Attila the Bum" <mark_tarka@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Not a good start, Looie.

Bend over, Mr. ***** Kisser, I'll show you a good start. ahahaha...
AHAHAHA... hahaha...
Louis Savain
Why Software Is Bad and What We Can Do to Fix It:
http://www.rebelscience.org/Cosas/Reliability.htm
.
User: "Attila the Bum"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 02:22:36 PM
That's twice, Looie. Has the wife
been beating you up again? :-)
Atty (Always, falls _down_!)
.




User: ""

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 28 Sep 2005 09:09:54 PM
Uncle Al wrote:

cmaj10@yahoo.com wrote:


Uncle Al wrote:

General Relativity is empirically falsified, as is Lorentz
Invariance. Uncle Al on one 11 December, "Bra, tack s=E5 mycket."

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1290/tacksaam.wav


Why do you claim that Lorentz Invariance is falsified? It's not clear
to me how this could be concluded from your experiment.


Chirality (handedness) is spatial anisotropy. Parity is chirality
along all coordinate axes with no directional bias. If opposite
parity single crystal test masses of identical chemical composition
vacuum free fall nonidentically, it can only be a diastereotopic
interaction with space itself - the relative geometry of opposite
parity nuclear mass positions incommensurably imbedded in the geometry
of anisotropic chiral space.

Okay, then I guess my next questions make sense. In a locally Minkowski
region, if they both have velocity v, what can you say about their
comparative relativistic mass, kinetic energy, momentum, and total
energy content? Also, same question about the energy content when v =3D
0=2E I'm not asking about the comparative rest mass, because obviously
you must have carefully tested that they both have the same exact rest
mass.
Chris
.
User: "Uncle Al"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 29 Sep 2005 01:12:39 PM
wrote:


Uncle Al wrote:

wrote:


Uncle Al wrote:

General Relativity is empirically falsified, as is Lorentz
Invariance. Uncle Al on one 11 December, "Bra, tack så mycket."

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1290/tacksaam.wav


Why do you claim that Lorentz Invariance is falsified? It's not clear
to me how this could be concluded from your experiment.


Chirality (handedness) is spatial anisotropy. Parity is chirality
along all coordinate axes with no directional bias. If opposite
parity single crystal test masses of identical chemical composition
vacuum free fall nonidentically, it can only be a diastereotopic
interaction with space itself - the relative geometry of opposite
parity nuclear mass positions incommensurably imbedded in the geometry
of anisotropic chiral space.


Okay, then I guess my next questions make sense. In a locally Minkowski
region, if they both have velocity v, what can you say about their
comparative relativistic mass, kinetic energy, momentum, and total
energy content? Also, same question about the energy content when v =
0. I'm not asking about the comparative rest mass, because obviously
you must have carefully tested that they both have the same exact rest
mass.

There is no Equivalence Principle test within Minkowski space, below.
Local opposite parity test masses (maximally non-superposable
geometric parity inversions of mass distribution in bodies with finite
moments of inertia) will pursue minimum energy (minimum action) free
fall paths in vacuum. However, those paths will not be identical and
only the geomerically left-handed test mass will have a path that
approximates a General Relativity geodesic. The geometrically
right-handed extremal parity test mass will evince the anomaly.
The Eotvos rotor is balanced to within a microgram or so over about
100 grams overall total. Test masses' mass is irrelevant except as
experimental convenience. Only the ratio of inertial to gravitational
mass is active. Local gee cancels. The Earth's inertial acceleration
as it spins about its axis vs. the Earth's gravitational acceleration
as it falls around the sun are active. The phase angle between the
two 24-hr modulates the Eotvos balance's output (if any) to
phase-locked detection. Modern rigs put the apparatus upon a slow
precision turntable that gives better signal amplification for its
faster phase angle rotation and uncouples coincident resonances by
altering its angular velocity.
You cannot falsify Euclidean geometry within Euclidean geometry - it
contains no mistakes. The problem is in one of its founding
postulates - the Fifth (Parallel) Postulate. Riemann and
Bolyai/Lobechevsky made hash of Euclid, then Thurston made hash of
them all,
WP Thurston, "Three-dimensional manifolds, Kleinian groups and
hyperbolic geometry," Bull. Amer. Math. Soc. 6 357-381 (1982)
WP Thurston, "Three-dimensional geometry and topology," Vol. 1.
Princeton Mathematical Press, Princeton, NJ, 1997
You cannot falsify General Relativity within General Relativity - it
contains no mistakes. The problem is in one of its founding
postulates - the Equivalence Principle. Minkowski space is irrelevant
to the discussion, as below. External symmetry-derived properties
(e.g., parity) act on spacetime. A Poincaré group gauge theory can be
equivalent to the Einstein-Cartan theory of gravitation.
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/cite.htm#a13
Einstein-Cartan theory operates in Riemann-Cartan spacetime U4 - a
paracompact, Hausdorff, connected, C^(infinity), and oriented
four-dimensional manifold on which are defined a local Lorentz metric
"g" and a linear affine connection "capital gamma." Curvature and
torsion tensors can be obtained from "capital gamma" on U^4:
1. If the torsion tensor vanishes, Riemann-Cartan spacetime becomes
pseudo-Riemannian spacetime, V^4 (General Relativity; metric
gravitation overall; EP postulated);
2. If the curvature tensor vanishes, it becomes Weitzenböck
spacetime, A^4 (in which the teleparallel gravitational
energy-momentum pseudotensor is anti-symmetric to parity
transformation; EP is irrelevant);
3. If both tensors vanish, it becomes Minkowski spacetime, M^4.
Minkowski space has no bearing on Equivalence Principle testing.
Looking back at the various threads about the parity Eotvos
experiment, what do we see? We see critic trolls trisecting angles
and squaring circles. We see idiots assuming the Equivalence
Principle and then "proving" that it is true. We see flat-oput
psychotics picking their asses in public. We see Richard Schultz,
KING OF THE CARBONYLS
<http://www.biu.ac.il/ESC/ch/faculty/schultz/schulint.html>
<http://www.sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin/user_page.pl?url=rschultz>
and his various aliases erecting a Senior Lecturer pseudo-scholarly
hard-on demanding that the parity Eotvos experiment never be performed
because it would offend Yahweh and Richard Schultz. Hey Schultzy -
greed is masculine, envy is feminine. Just how much backbonding can
you contain in a day?
There is preponderant evidence that the Jun Luo group in Huazhong
University in Wuhan, PR China has performed the full parity Eotvos
experiment in quartz to full 10^(-13) difference/average sensitivity
and has obtained a net signal on the close order of 10^(-12)
difference/average. Said academic group is now attempting to change
its public position as a pair of hands performing Uncle Al's reduction
to practice of Uncle Al's proposed and mathematically modeled theory.
They will fail.
There is preponderant evidence that space is anisiotropic toward
extremal parity bodies. The Equivalence Principle is empirically
violated at will and angular momentum will not be conserved for
geometrically right-handed extremal parity bodies. The size of the
anomaly (about a part-per-trillion difference/average) and the
extremal conditions under which it is obtained (geometrically
right-handed solid convex single crystals with equal moments of
inertia) render it undetectable except in specialized
instrumentation. This could change given more observations and better
theory therefrom. Uncoupling gravitational and inertial mass has
profound engineering applications.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf
.
User: "hanson"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 29 Sep 2005 02:19:09 PM
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:433C2E97.378CEF55@hate.spam.net...

There is preponderant evidence that ... the Jun Luo group in Huazhong
University in Wuhan, PR China academic group is now attempting to
change its public position as a pair of hands performing Uncle Al's
reduction to practice of Uncle Al's proposed and mathematically
modeled theory.
They will fail.
Uncle Al

[hanson]
ahahaha... ahahahaha... the next act in this soap opera has begun and
the plot thickens. But, Al, all this is of course extremely entertaining, but
on the remote chance that what your are asserting here has indeed
basis and fact then the question arises whether you Al, have never
heard the saying: "You catch more flies with honey".... ahahaha....
Al, you must have missed my last post which begins with:


"hanson" <hanson@quick.net> wrote in message
news:OYd_e.69$4h2.41@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...

"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote :

Let them try to publish a non-null result as their own.
Let there be blood filling the gutters.

[hanson]
... ahahaha... Al, you are a MASTER in DESTROYING the
fruits of your labor but an abject failure in harvesting them.
You are better at this than anyone I have ever encountered.
To boot you are .....

ahahaha.... ahahanson
.

User: "Androcles Androcles@ MyPlace.org"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 29 Sep 2005 02:16:19 PM
"Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:433C2E97.378CEF55@hate.spam.net...
[snip crap]
So the Chinese told you to *****. Who can blame them?
Psychotic ineducable boring spammer (Alan Schwartz),
the royal fuckwit, "Uncle Al" <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote in message
news:421CA8D5.202258D0@hate.spam.net...

Why are you having so much trouble with basic algebra?
Let L_1 = distance light travels in going from Sam to Joe, as
measured in the stationary frame.
1) L_1 = cL/(c-v)

What a right royal stooopid *****.
See the peeing puppy moortel, he'll not be glad to add
you to his list of truly IMMORTAL fumbles. I will, though.
[quote]
we establish by definition that the "time" required by a turtle to
travel
from A to B equals the "time" it requires to travel from B to A.
[end quote]
Ref: http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
[quote]
For velocities greater than that of a turtle our deliberations become
meaningless; we shall, however, find in what follows, that the velocity
of a turtle in our theory plays the part, physically, of an infinitely
great velocity.
[quote]
Ref: http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/
Nothing can go faster than a turtle.
Oops!... Did I say 'a turtle'? Sorry...'light'.
Androcles
.

User: "brian a m stuckless"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 29 Sep 2005 03:40:23 PM
EVEN helps dimwits BETTER ((focus)) on BOTH ends
of SOME PLANCK momentum VELOCiTY vector AT ONCE.
Or, a PRE-tunnelling electron PLANCK POSiTiON A.
VERY sincerely u c,
```Brian
p.s.
Run baby run. Scream UREKA, my sweet.!!
The girls are squeezing your weenie BETWEEN
their thumbs and forefingers, at CONSiDERABLE distance.!!

<> >><> >><> >><> >><>

Uncle Al wrote:

General Relativity is empirically falsified, as is Lorentz
Invariance. Uncle Al on one 11 December, "Bra, tack s=E5 myck=

et."


http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1290/tacksaam.wav


Why do you claim that Lorentz Invariance is falsified? It's not c=

lear

to me how this could be concluded from your experiment.


Chirality (handedness) is spatial anisotropy. Parity is chirality
along all coordinate axes with no directional bias. If opposite
parity single crystal test masses of identical chemical composition=
vacuum free fall nonidentically, it can only be a diastereotopic
interaction with space itself - the relative geometry of opposite
parity nuclear mass positions incommensurably imbedded in the geome=

try

of anisotropic chiral space.


Okay, then I guess my next questions make sense. In a locally Minkows=

ki

region, if they both have velocity v, what can you say about their
comparative relativistic mass, kinetic energy, momentum, and total
energy content? Also, same question about the energy content when v =3D=
0. I'm not asking about the comparative rest mass, because obviously
you must have carefully tested that they both have the same exact res=

t

mass.

=
There is no Equivalence Principle test within Minkowski space, below.
Local opposite parity test masses (maximally non-superposable
geometric parity inversions of mass distribution in bodies with finite
moments of inertia) will pursue minimum energy (minimum action) free
fall paths in vacuum. However, those paths will not be identical and
only the geomerically left-handed test mass will have a path that
approximates a General Relativity geodesic. The geometrically
right-handed extremal parity test mass will evince the anomaly.
=
The Eotvos rotor is balanced to within a microgram or so over about
100 grams overall total. Test masses' mass is irrelevant except as
experimental convenience. Only the ratio of inertial to gravitational
mass is active. Local gee cancels. The Earth's inertial acceleration
as it spins about its axis vs. the Earth's gravitational acceleration
as it falls around the sun are active. The phase angle between the
two 24-hr modulates the Eotvos balance's output (if any) to
phase-locked detection. Modern rigs put the apparatus upon a slow
precision turntable that gives better signal amplification for its
faster phase angle rotation and uncouples coincident resonances by
altering its angular velocity.
=
You cannot falsify Euclidean geometry within Euclidean geometry - it
contains no mistakes. The problem is in one of its founding
postulates - the Fifth (Parallel) Postulate. Riemann and
Bolyai/Lobechevsky made hash of Euclid, then Thurston made hash of
them all,
=
WP Thurston, "Three-dimensional manifolds, Kleinian groups and
hyperbolic geometry," Bull. Amer. Math. Soc. 6 357-381 (1982)
WP Thurston, "Three-dimensional geometry and topology," Vol. 1.
Princeton Mathematical Press, Princeton, NJ, 1997
=
You cannot falsify General Relativity within General Relativity - it
contains no mistakes. The problem is in one of its founding
postulates - the Equivalence Principle. Minkowski space is irrelevant
to the discussion, as below. External symmetry-derived properties
(e.g., parity) act on spacetime. A Poincar=E9 group gauge theory can b=

e

equivalent to the Einstein-Cartan theory of gravitation.
=
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/cite.htm#a13
=
Einstein-Cartan theory operates in Riemann-Cartan spacetime U4 - a
paracompact, Hausdorff, connected, C^(infinity), and oriented
four-dimensional manifold on which are defined a local Lorentz metric
"g" and a linear affine connection "capital gamma." Curvature and
torsion tensors can be obtained from "capital gamma" on U^4:
=
1. If the torsion tensor vanishes, Riemann-Cartan spacetime becomes
pseudo-Riemannian spacetime, V^4 (General Relativity; metric
gravitation overall; EP postulated);
=
2. If the curvature tensor vanishes, it becomes Weitzenb=F6ck
spacetime, A^4 (in which the teleparallel gravitational
energy-momentum pseudotensor is anti-symmetric to parity
transformation; EP is irrelevant);
=
3. If both tensors vanish, it becomes Minkowski spacetime, M^4.
Minkowski space has no bearing on Equivalence Principle testing.
=
Looking back at the various threads about the parity Eotvos
experiment, what do we see? We see critic trolls trisecting angles
and squaring circles. We see idiots assuming the Equivalence
Principle and then "proving" that it is true. We see flat-oput
psychotics picking their asses in public. We see Richard Schultz,
KING OF THE CARBONYLS
=
<http://www.biu.ac.il/ESC/ch/faculty/schultz/schulint.html>
<http://www.sibeliusmusic.com/cgi-bin/user_page.pl?url=3Drschultz>
=
and his various aliases erecting a Senior Lecturer pseudo-scholarly
hard-on demanding that the parity Eotvos experiment never be performed
because it would offend Yahweh and Richard Schultz. Hey Schultzy -
greed is masculine, envy is feminine. Just how much backbonding can
you contain in a day?
=
There is preponderant evidence that the Jun Luo group in Huazhong
University in Wuhan, PR China has performed the full parity Eotvos
experiment in quartz to full 10^(-13) difference/average sensitivity
and has obtained a net signal on the close order of 10^(-12)
difference/average. Said academic group is now attempting to change
its public position as a pair of hands performing Uncle Al's reduction
to practice of Uncle Al's proposed and mathematically modeled theory.
They will fail.
=
There is preponderant evidence that space is anisiotropic toward
extremal parity bodies. The Equivalence Principle is empirically
violated at will and angular momentum will not be conserved for
geometrically right-handed extremal parity bodies. The size of the
anomaly (about a part-per-trillion difference/average) and the
extremal conditions under which it is obtained (geometrically
right-handed solid convex single crystals with equal moments of
inertia) render it undetectable except in specialized
instrumentation. This could change given more observations and better
theory therefrom. Uncoupling gravitational and inertial mass has
profound engineering applications.
=
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/qz.pdf

.

User: "Will Janoschka"

Title: Re: Results: full parity Eotvos experiment in quartz. 29 Sep 2005 02:11:11 PM
On Thu, 29 Sep 2005 18:12:39, Uncle Al <UncleAl0@hate.spam.net> wrote:
-snip-

There is preponderant evidence that the Jun Luo group in Huazhong
University in Wuhan, PR China has performed the full parity Eotvos
experiment in quartz to full 10^(-13) difference/average sensitivity
and has obtained a net signal on the close order of 10^(-12)
difference/average. Said academic group is now attempting to change
its public position as a pair of hands performing Uncle Al's reduction
to practice of Uncle Al's proposed and mathematically modeled theory.
They will fail.

There is preponderant evidence that space is anisiotropic toward
extremal parity bodies. The Equivalence Principle is empirically
violated at will and angular momentum will not be conserved for
geometrically right-handed extremal parity bodies. The size of the
anomaly (about a part-per-trillion difference/average) and the
extremal conditions under which it is obtained (geometrically
right-handed solid convex single crystals with equal moments of
inertia) render it undetectable except in specialized
instrumentation. This could change given more observations and better
theory therefrom. Uncoupling gravitational and inertial mass has
profound engineering applications.

--
Uncle Al

Al,
Could it be that the "profound" is what the Luo group is trying for?
Perhaps even a start at understanding of coupling 'tween space and
time.
Anyhow, congratulations again.
-will-
.









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