Science > Physics > Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be?
| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud mining_pioneer at yahoo.com" |
| Date: |
08 Aug 2005 02:17:22 PM |
| Object: |
Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
<berserk04@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1123376979.920724.211360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.vallartarestaurants.com/temp/mac.jpg
I found this in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. The place where predator 1 was
filmed. 2 hours walk in the jungle i found this big rock with a 25cm
aprox diameter STAR SHAPED HOLE side to side from the rock (1.2mts!!
aprox, i can put my entire arm inside it), the rock will be 1ton aprox.
and the output hole should be around 18cm diameter aprox. so is cone
shaped too, and also has a spiral twist. I dont think this could be
human made, it is in the middle of nothing, and the zone is not an
archaeological area, no aztecs, mayas or whatsoever on this side of
mexico.
Any help to identify would be apreciate.
You are correct Sir,
This is not human made, only very high intensity laser beam would allow such
engineering !
Thank you for the beautiful photos
--
Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud
Australia Mining Pioneer
Exploration Geologist
Discoverer and Legal Owner of Telfer, Nifty & Kintyre Mines
The Great Sandy Desert of Australia
Founder of the True Geology
* The "Golden Rule" or true story of the Discovery of the Telfer Mine
Author Bob Sheppard President of the APLA ( Australian Prospectors'
nion )
http://www.tnet.com.au/~warrigal/grule.html ,
* As well as Dr Don Findlay's Geological Site
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/tel/index.html
~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
.
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| User: "Timothy Casey - GPEMC!" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
08 Aug 2005 08:30:07 PM |
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"Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud" <mining_pioneer at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42f7afc8$0$25039$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
<berserk04@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1123376979.920724.211360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.vallartarestaurants.com/temp/mac.jpg
I found this in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. The place where predator 1 was
filmed. 2 hours walk in the jungle i found this big rock with a 25cm
aprox diameter STAR SHAPED HOLE side to side from the rock (1.2mts!!
aprox, i can put my entire arm inside it), the rock will be 1ton aprox.
and the output hole should be around 18cm diameter aprox. so is cone
shaped too, and also has a spiral twist. I dont think this could be
human made, it is in the middle of nothing, and the zone is not an
archaeological area, no aztecs, mayas or whatsoever on this side of
mexico.
Any help to identify would be apreciate.
You are correct Sir,
This is not human made, only very high intensity laser beam would allow
such
engineering !
Thank you for the intelligence update, Jean-Paul. I'd really like to know
what frequency and maximum range the laser had. How far away do you think
the laser was when it was used?
He who has the gold may well make the rules, but he who has the technology
can take all the gold he wants.
Thanks in Advance...
--
Timothy Casey GPEMC! >> 11950 is the 2email
Terms & conditions apply. See www.fieldcraft.biz/GPEMC
Discover valid interoperable web menus, IE security, TSR Control,
& the most advanced speed reading application @ www.fieldcraft.biz
Thank you for the beautiful photos
--
Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud
Australia Mining Pioneer
Exploration Geologist
Discoverer and Legal Owner of Telfer, Nifty & Kintyre Mines
The Great Sandy Desert of Australia
Founder of the True Geology
* The "Golden Rule" or true story of the Discovery of the Telfer Mine
Author Bob Sheppard President of the APLA ( Australian Prospectors'
nion )
http://www.tnet.com.au/~warrigal/grule.html ,
* As well as Dr Don Findlay's Geological Site
http://users.indigo.net.au/don/tel/index.html
~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
.
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| User: "Skywise" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
08 Aug 2005 09:16:19 PM |
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"Timothy Casey - GPEMC!"
<ReplaceOhWithZeroNumbersOnly1195O@fieldcraft.biz> wrote in
news:42f8041c_1@news.iprimus.com.au:
"Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud" <mining_pioneer at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42f7afc8$0$25039$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
<berserk04@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1123376979.920724.211360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.vallartarestaurants.com/temp/mac.jpg
I found this in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. The place where predator 1
was filmed. 2 hours walk in the jungle i found this big rock with a
25cm aprox diameter STAR SHAPED HOLE side to side from the rock
(1.2mts!! aprox, i can put my entire arm inside it), the rock will be
1ton aprox. and the output hole should be around 18cm diameter aprox.
so is cone shaped too, and also has a spiral twist. I dont think this
could be human made, it is in the middle of nothing, and the zone is
not an archaeological area, no aztecs, mayas or whatsoever on this
side of mexico.
Any help to identify would be apreciate.
You are correct Sir,
This is not human made, only very high intensity laser beam would allow
such
engineering !
Thank you for the intelligence update, Jean-Paul. I'd really like to
know what frequency and maximum range the laser had. How far away do you
think the laser was when it was used?
He who has the gold may well make the rules, but he who has the
technology can take all the gold he wants.
Thanks in Advance...
You guys need to learn a little about lasers.
Using a laser to make such holes in rock would be like trying
to pound a nail in a tree using a nuke.
It may work, but is extremely inefficient and extreme overkill.
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
.
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| User: "Timothy Casey - GPEMC!" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
13 Aug 2005 12:11:38 AM |
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"Skywise" <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote in message
news:11fg4fjplsrd061@corp.supernews.com...
[SNIP]
You guys need to learn a little about lasers.
Using a laser to make such holes in rock would be like trying
to pound a nail in a tree using a nuke.
It may work, but is extremely inefficient and extreme overkill.
[SNIP]
Agreed, unless someone has thought of something interesting.
I wonder if anyone has done any work with lasers operating in the acoustic
range - specifically ultrasonic lasers; or is this not possible?
Given that we were only just beginning to experiment with high power
ultrasonics back in the sixties, and that mount decay problems have never
been solved; even if someone could pull a high power ultrasonic laser out of
the hat, it would still seem a bit of a stretch, given the apparent age of
the hole.
For now, my money is still on a drill and a creative driller!
--
Timothy Casey GPEMC! >> 11950 is the 2email
Terms & conditions apply. See www.fieldcraft.biz/GPEMC
Discover valid interoperable web menus, IE security, TSR Control,
& the most advanced speed reading application @ www.fieldcraft.biz
.
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| User: "Skywise" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
13 Aug 2005 01:48:41 AM |
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"Timothy Casey - GPEMC!"
<ReplaceOhWithZeroNumbersOnly1195O@fieldcraft.biz> wrote in
news:42fd7e01_1@news.iprimus.com.au:
"Skywise" <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote in message
news:11fg4fjplsrd061@corp.supernews.com...
[SNIP]
You guys need to learn a little about lasers.
Using a laser to make such holes in rock would be like trying
to pound a nail in a tree using a nuke.
It may work, but is extremely inefficient and extreme overkill.
[SNIP]
Agreed, unless someone has thought of something interesting.
I wonder if anyone has done any work with lasers operating in the
acoustic range - specifically ultrasonic lasers; or is this not
possible?
Given that we were only just beginning to experiment with high power
ultrasonics back in the sixties, and that mount decay problems have
never been solved; even if someone could pull a high power ultrasonic
laser out of the hat, it would still seem a bit of a stretch, given the
apparent age of the hole.
Uhhhh...."laser" and "ultrasonic" are two totally different things.
Lasers are electromagnetic radiation. Ultrasonic is mechanical
energy. Ultrasonic means sound frequencies higher than normal
human hearing, typically 20KHz.
If you mean lasers whose radiation is in the same frequency range
as ultrasonic sound (greater than 20KHz), then all lasers meet
that requirement.
Or do you mean *just* above 20KHz, which is what is typically meant
by "ultrasonic"?
There is the MASER, which operates at microwave frequencies,
typically gigahertz.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maser there are versions
which get down into the VLF range, usually called radio masers or
sometimes RASERS. VLF is technically 3-30KHz, But I know little of
this technology, preferring to stick to IR-Vis-UV stuff.
Masers are typically used for amplifying very weak microwave and
radio signals or as precise frequency references.
For now, my money is still on a drill and a creative driller!
Agreed. Masers and rasers would not be able to cut rock.
Hammer and chisel would be faster than a laser for drilling
through rock. Lasers don't blast holes in things or blow things
up like in Hollywood.
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
.
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| User: "Timothy Casey - GPEMC!" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
14 Aug 2005 12:29:11 AM |
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As I said before, I not sure if it is possible at present, but I am
wondering if anything has been done in the low, perhaps even "mechanical"
frequency range (VLF)...
By the way, what is the optimum frequency within the ultraviolet band for
laser ionisation of air at STP? Are there better frequencies for ionisation
of air at STP outside this band?
Thanks in Advance...
--
Timothy Casey GPEMC! >> 11950 is the 2email
Terms & conditions apply. See www.fieldcraft.biz/GPEMC
Discover valid interoperable web menus, IE security, TSR Control,
& the most advanced speed reading application @ www.fieldcraft.biz
"Skywise" <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote in message
news:11fr5u9h3p7n03e@corp.supernews.com...
"Timothy Casey - GPEMC!"
<ReplaceOhWithZeroNumbersOnly1195O@fieldcraft.biz> wrote in
news:42fd7e01_1@news.iprimus.com.au:
"Skywise" <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote in message
news:11fg4fjplsrd061@corp.supernews.com...
[SNIP]
You guys need to learn a little about lasers.
Using a laser to make such holes in rock would be like trying
to pound a nail in a tree using a nuke.
It may work, but is extremely inefficient and extreme overkill.
[SNIP]
Agreed, unless someone has thought of something interesting.
I wonder if anyone has done any work with lasers operating in the
acoustic range - specifically ultrasonic lasers; or is this not
possible?
Given that we were only just beginning to experiment with high power
ultrasonics back in the sixties, and that mount decay problems have
never been solved; even if someone could pull a high power ultrasonic
laser out of the hat, it would still seem a bit of a stretch, given the
apparent age of the hole.
Uhhhh...."laser" and "ultrasonic" are two totally different things.
Lasers are electromagnetic radiation. Ultrasonic is mechanical
energy. Ultrasonic means sound frequencies higher than normal
human hearing, typically 20KHz.
If you mean lasers whose radiation is in the same frequency range
as ultrasonic sound (greater than 20KHz), then all lasers meet
that requirement.
Or do you mean *just* above 20KHz, which is what is typically meant
by "ultrasonic"?
There is the MASER, which operates at microwave frequencies,
typically gigahertz.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maser there are versions
which get down into the VLF range, usually called radio masers or
sometimes RASERS. VLF is technically 3-30KHz, But I know little of
this technology, preferring to stick to IR-Vis-UV stuff.
Masers are typically used for amplifying very weak microwave and
radio signals or as precise frequency references.
For now, my money is still on a drill and a creative driller!
Agreed. Masers and rasers would not be able to cut rock.
Hammer and chisel would be faster than a laser for drilling
through rock. Lasers don't blast holes in things or blow things
up like in Hollywood.
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
.
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| User: "Skywise" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
14 Aug 2005 02:20:09 AM |
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"Timothy Casey - GPEMC!" <ReplaceOhWithZeroNumbersOnly1195O@fieldcraft.biz>
wrote in news:42fed414_1@news.iprimus.com.au:
As I said before, I not sure if it is possible at present, but I am
wondering if anything has been done in the low, perhaps even "mechanical"
frequency range (VLF)...
As mentioned in my post,
"According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maser there are
versions which get down into the VLF range, usually called
radio masers or sometimes RASERS."
By the way, what is the optimum frequency within the ultraviolet band for
laser ionisation of air at STP? Are there better frequencies for ionisation
of air at STP outside this band?
I don't know what the 'optimum' wavelength would be, but it's
really got more to do with energy density. Yes, UV will ionize
air a bit easier than say, IR, but it's usually easier with
IR lasers as it's easier to make high powered IR lasers.
Even a CO2 laser way out at 10.6 microns in the mid IR can
ionize air when focused from a kilowatt class laser.
Pulsed lasers can also reach high power densities since all
the power is compressed into a short microsecond or less pulse.
1 watt in 1 microsecond = 1 megawatt peak power.
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
.
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| User: "Philip Deitiker" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
15 Aug 2005 09:55:42 AM |
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In sci.archaeology, Skywise created a message ID
news:11fts5924reh845@corp.supernews.com:
"Timothy Casey - GPEMC!"
<ReplaceOhWithZeroNumbersOnly1195O@fieldcraft.biz>
wrote in news:42fed414_1@news.iprimus.com.au:
As I said before, I not sure if it is possible at present,
but I am
wondering if anything has been done in the low, perhaps
even "mechanical"
frequency range (VLF)...
As mentioned in my post,
"According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maser there are
versions which get down into the VLF range, usually
called
radio masers or sometimes RASERS."
By the way, what is the optimum frequency within the
ultraviolet band for
laser ionisation of air at STP? Are there better
frequencies for ionisation
of air at STP outside this band?
I don't know what the 'optimum' wavelength would be, but
it's
really got more to do with energy density. Yes, UV will
ionize
air a bit easier than say, IR, but it's usually easier with
IR lasers as it's easier to make high powered IR lasers.
The optimal frequency for microwave is the adsortion frequency
of the material being heated. In a microwave oven the
frequency I beleive is the vibration frequency of water. For
example, if you want to heat pure butter in a microwave you
best put water in so that the water and steam will melt the
butter, if not the little water in butter will end up popping
and spattering all over the inside of the microwave.
To use microwaves to atomize rock you need to know the
vibration frequencies of the bonds that link elements together
in the rock, a namely the last bonds to break that then
created the gaseous form of that element. The silicon-oxygen
bond is probably a good target. There is at least one double
bond so probably the target frequency is the ionization
freqeuncy of the sp2 orbital of that bond along with
freqencies of the p orbital and the other sp2 orbitals, should
suffice at high enough entensity to get the silicon vaporized.
I wouldn't want to be around this without a self contained
breathing aparatus and some eye protection. Theoretically if
you break the SiO bond and keep the silicon ionized the other
metals will become chalky and can be brush away. However, at
that high of an energy the surrounding rock would marblized
and it would be obvious that a heat generating object carved
the rock and not some sort of chipping device. I think we can
rule out microwave lasers.
[The ionized silicon would sublimate on the sides of the
cavity and depositing a huge amount of energy, this would heat
up the sides of the cavities until they marblized to some
degree.
Even a CO2 laser way out at 10.6 microns in the mid IR can
ionize air when focused from a kilowatt class laser.
The O2 bond is fairly fragile. I have heard stories that with
highly compressed O2 tanks, if you rupture the valve the air
inside the tank literally explodes on contact with anything.
Pulsed lasers can also reach high power densities since all
the power is compressed into a short microsecond or less
pulse.
1 watt in 1 microsecond = 1 megawatt peak power.
.
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| User: "Damon Hill" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
13 Aug 2005 02:56:17 AM |
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Skywise <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote in
news:11fr5u9h3p7n03e@corp.supernews.com:
For now, my money is still on a drill and a creative driller!
Agreed. Masers and rasers would not be able to cut rock.
Hammer and chisel would be faster than a laser for drilling
through rock. Lasers don't blast holes in things or blow things
up like in Hollywood.
I don't see why not, given sufficient power. But a
waterjet might do better, and do it more safely. And be
a lot more compact. I've seen samples of aluminum billets
where a waterjet cut quite neatly up to six inches deep;
it cut titanium too, but not as deeply. (Boeing Surplus
is a fun place to see high-tech castoffs.)
I can't imagine how an 'ultrasonic' laser could be done,
either. I think the previous poster is a bit confused.
--Damon
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| User: "James F. Cornwall" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
15 Aug 2005 10:27:44 AM |
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Skywise wrote:
"Timothy Casey - GPEMC!"
<ReplaceOhWithZeroNumbersOnly1195O@fieldcraft.biz> wrote in
news:42fd7e01_1@news.iprimus.com.au:
"Skywise" <into@oblivion.nothing.com> wrote in message
news:11fg4fjplsrd061@corp.supernews.com...
[SNIP]
You guys need to learn a little about lasers.
Using a laser to make such holes in rock would be like trying
to pound a nail in a tree using a nuke.
It may work, but is extremely inefficient and extreme overkill.
[SNIP]
Agreed, unless someone has thought of something interesting.
I wonder if anyone has done any work with lasers operating in the
acoustic range - specifically ultrasonic lasers; or is this not
possible?
Given that we were only just beginning to experiment with high power
ultrasonics back in the sixties, and that mount decay problems have
never been solved; even if someone could pull a high power ultrasonic
laser out of the hat, it would still seem a bit of a stretch, given the
apparent age of the hole.
Uhhhh...."laser" and "ultrasonic" are two totally different things.
Lasers are electromagnetic radiation. Ultrasonic is mechanical
energy. Ultrasonic means sound frequencies higher than normal
human hearing, typically 20KHz.
If you mean lasers whose radiation is in the same frequency range
as ultrasonic sound (greater than 20KHz), then all lasers meet
that requirement.
Or do you mean *just* above 20KHz, which is what is typically meant
by "ultrasonic"?
There is the MASER, which operates at microwave frequencies,
typically gigahertz.
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maser there are versions
which get down into the VLF range, usually called radio masers or
sometimes RASERS. VLF is technically 3-30KHz, But I know little of
this technology, preferring to stick to IR-Vis-UV stuff.
Masers are typically used for amplifying very weak microwave and
radio signals or as precise frequency references.
For now, my money is still on a drill and a creative driller!
Agreed. Masers and rasers would not be able to cut rock.
Hammer and chisel would be faster than a laser for drilling
through rock. Lasers don't blast holes in things or blow things
up like in Hollywood.
Brian
No, but pulsed lasers do a good job of vaporising surface materials of
the target, a bit more with each pulse. Seen some really good video
footage of weapon-grade laser tests that gave a good impersonation of
"blasting holes in things" :-)
Jim
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| User: "Skywise" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
15 Aug 2005 06:27:10 PM |
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"James F. Cornwall" <jcornwall@cox.net> wrote in
news:IL9s71.HvG@igsrsparc2.er.usgs.gov:
Skywise wrote:
<Snipola>
Hammer and chisel would be faster than a laser for drilling
through rock. Lasers don't blast holes in things or blow things
up like in Hollywood.
Brian
No, but pulsed lasers do a good job of vaporising surface materials of
the target, a bit more with each pulse. Seen some really good video
footage of weapon-grade laser tests that gave a good impersonation of
"blasting holes in things" :-)
Jim
But the problem with laser drilling is removing the ablated
material from the target. Usually a compressed air* nozzle
blows away the debris. But if we are talking depth of feet,
there's going to be a big problem with removing the debris.
It has to be removed because it will absorb the laser energy
instead of the target, effectively stopping the drilling
process.
*[or some other assist gas, because sometimes plain air is
bad, just as in welding]
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
.
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| User: "J. F. Cornwall" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
16 Aug 2005 12:48:42 PM |
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Skywise wrote:
"James F. Cornwall" <jcornwall@cox.net> wrote in
news:IL9s71.HvG@igsrsparc2.er.usgs.gov:
Skywise wrote:
<Snipola>
Hammer and chisel would be faster than a laser for drilling
through rock. Lasers don't blast holes in things or blow things
up like in Hollywood.
Brian
No, but pulsed lasers do a good job of vaporising surface materials of
the target, a bit more with each pulse. Seen some really good video
footage of weapon-grade laser tests that gave a good impersonation of
"blasting holes in things" :-)
Jim
But the problem with laser drilling is removing the ablated
material from the target. Usually a compressed air* nozzle
blows away the debris. But if we are talking depth of feet,
there's going to be a big problem with removing the debris.
It has to be removed because it will absorb the laser energy
instead of the target, effectively stopping the drilling
process.
*[or some other assist gas, because sometimes plain air is
bad, just as in welding]
Brian
Right, well you just crank up the power enough that the surface
vaporization propels the gaseous remains away fast enough to clear the
target zone for the next pulse... :-) Just those little annoying
engineering details standing in the way, I know.
Jim
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| User: "Philip Deitiker" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
16 Aug 2005 01:05:57 PM |
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In sci.archaeology, J. F. Cornwall created a message ID
news:2DpMe.2528$Ix4.435@okepread03:
Right, well you just crank up the power enough that the
surface
vaporization propels the gaseous remains away fast enough to
clear the
target zone for the next pulse... :-) Just those little
annoying
engineering details standing in the way, I know.
The whole surface of the object has to be heated to vaporization
temperature or material vaporized by the laser will adhere to
non-target areas by sublimation, and eventually that material
will need to be retargeted. One would need the object under a
vacuum and a suction apparatus with an inlet at near vaporizing
temperature to prevent sublimation. Even so under a complete
vacuum liberated gas molecules will stream like particles until
they hit something cool and sublimate.
Certainly you could heat the entire rock up with a laser, but
then of course you are trying to drill a precision work of art
and not Captain Kirk it.
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| User: "Skywise" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
16 Aug 2005 04:46:50 PM |
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Philip Deitiker <Nopdeitik@att.net.Spam> wrote in news:Xns96B485409D57Bprd@
128.249.2.19:
In sci.archaeology, J. F. Cornwall created a message ID
news:2DpMe.2528$Ix4.435@okepread03:
Right, well you just crank up the power enough that the
surface
vaporization propels the gaseous remains away fast enough to
clear the
target zone for the next pulse... :-) Just those little
annoying
engineering details standing in the way, I know.
The whole surface of the object has to be heated to vaporization
temperature or material vaporized by the laser will adhere to
non-target areas by sublimation, and eventually that material
will need to be retargeted. One would need the object under a
vacuum and a suction apparatus with an inlet at near vaporizing
temperature to prevent sublimation. Even so under a complete
vacuum liberated gas molecules will stream like particles until
they hit something cool and sublimate.
Certainly you could heat the entire rock up with a laser, but
then of course you are trying to drill a precision work of art
and not Captain Kirk it.
I think we're unecessarily running away with the details.
The whole point is that this rock was almost assuredly NOT
drilled by a laser.
Hammer and chisel is all that's needed.
It's amazing the silly Rube Goldberg inventions people will
come up with to explain the obvious just to promote their
silly pseduoscientific 'theories'.
Brian
--
http://www.skywise711.com - Lasers, Seismology, Astronomy, Skepticism
Seismic FAQ: http://www.skywise711.com/SeismicFAQ/SeismicFAQ.html
Blog: http://www.skywise711.com/Blog
Sed quis custodiet ipsos Custodes?
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| User: "Nosterill" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
17 Aug 2005 05:33:12 AM |
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Skywise wrote:
I think we're unecessarily running away with the details.
The whole point is that this rock was almost assuredly NOT
drilled by a laser.
Hammer and chisel is all that's needed.
I think we're unnecessarily running away from the fundamental question
'why?'
There has been a lot of energy expended on 'how?' and I think we have
concluded that there are several plausible, if non trivial, methods.
The big question is why bother? WTF is it for?
All very confusing..
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| User: "Aidan Karley" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
17 Aug 2005 11:00:04 AM |
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In article <1124274792.213793.87540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
Nosterill wrote:
The big question is why bother? WTF is it for?
For tormenting the denizens of sci.[various]. Isn't it obvious?
And a good job it's been doing too! More fun than pulling the
wings off flies, and more ethically defensible too.
--
Aidan Karley, FGS
Aberdeen, Scotland,
Location: 57°10'11" N, 02°08'43" W (sub-tropical Aberdeen), 0.021233
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| User: "Philip Deitiker" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
17 Aug 2005 11:04:50 AM |
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In sci.archaeology, Nosterill created a message ID
news:1124274792.213793.87540@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Skywise wrote:
I think we're unecessarily running away with the details.
The whole point is that this rock was almost assuredly NOT
drilled by a laser.
Hammer and chisel is all that's needed.
I think we're unnecessarily running away from the
fundamental question
'why?'
There has been a lot of energy expended on 'how?' and I
think we have
concluded that there are several plausible, if non trivial,
methods.
The big question is why bother? WTF is it for?
All very confusing..
http://ancienthistory.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=
1/XJ&sdn=ancienthistory&zu=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.st.rim.or.jp%2F%
7Ecycle%2FAMATEE.HTML
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/ameratsumyth/
http://www.goddessmyths.com/Amaterasu-Epona.html
According to Shinto traditions the Emperor has 'sex' with the
stone . . .. . .
http://www.theforeigner-
japan.com/archives/200405/amaterasu.htm
http://www.onmarkproductions.com/html/shinto-
concepts.shtml#regalia
The ancient shinto traditions are beleived to have been
inspired by the indigenoous peoples of the Mikazaki region,
likely shell mound builders. There does appear to be cultural
continuity between the preyayoi and the shinto traditions,
however there is also continuity between the yayoi cultures
and the emperial traditions (likewise between chinese scholars
and emperial traditions). During the Asuka period, a time of
religious transition in Japan one can see a number of unique
and intricately carved stone figures, the meaning of these
carved stone objects is unclear, there is a gelling of
traditions into the Nara period. It is clear that the Asuka
period represented the fall of one of Japans major shinto
supporting belief-clans (uji), and the rise of buddhism.
The various sacred stones, like the mirror stone, are
believed to have been both functional and ceremonial.
Interestingly the genetic evidence seems to suggest a
relationship between the ancestors of the shell mound builders
and the lowland south americans. But the probable divergence
times are in the 10s of thousands of years.
Note that many of the sites depict the Yayoi's onset at 300
BC, the most recent publications place the Yayoi onset for
southern japan and shikoku at around 3000 BC.
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| User: "J. F. Cornwall" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
18 Aug 2005 08:03:15 AM |
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Skywise wrote:
Philip Deitiker <Nopdeitik@att.net.Spam> wrote in news:Xns96B485409D57Bprd@
128.249.2.19:
In sci.archaeology, J. F. Cornwall created a message ID
news:2DpMe.2528$Ix4.435@okepread03:
Right, well you just crank up the power enough that the
surface
vaporization propels the gaseous remains away fast enough to
clear the
target zone for the next pulse... :-) Just those little
annoying
engineering details standing in the way, I know.
The whole surface of the object has to be heated to vaporization
temperature or material vaporized by the laser will adhere to
non-target areas by sublimation, and eventually that material
will need to be retargeted. One would need the object under a
vacuum and a suction apparatus with an inlet at near vaporizing
temperature to prevent sublimation. Even so under a complete
vacuum liberated gas molecules will stream like particles until
they hit something cool and sublimate.
Certainly you could heat the entire rock up with a laser, but
then of course you are trying to drill a precision work of art
and not Captain Kirk it.
I think we're unecessarily running away with the details.
The whole point is that this rock was almost assuredly NOT
drilled by a laser.
Hammer and chisel is all that's needed.
It's amazing the silly Rube Goldberg inventions people will
come up with to explain the obvious just to promote their
silly pseduoscientific 'theories'.
Brian
Or just to have some fun with the thread....
Jim
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| User: "Paul Burke" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
18 Aug 2005 09:31:17 AM |
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J. F. Cornwall wrote:
Or just to have some fun with the thread....
It would take quite a while to drill a hole like that with thread.
Unless of course it came from th'red planet...
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| User: "Eric Stevens" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
08 Aug 2005 09:47:23 PM |
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On Tue, 9 Aug 2005 11:00:07 +0930, "Timothy Casey - GPEMC!"
<ReplaceOhWithZeroNumbersOnly1195O@fieldcraft.biz> wrote:
"Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud" <mining_pioneer at yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:42f7afc8$0$25039$8fcfb975@news.wanadoo.fr...
<berserk04@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1123376979.920724.211360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.vallartarestaurants.com/temp/mac.jpg
I found this in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. The place where predator 1 was
filmed. 2 hours walk in the jungle i found this big rock with a 25cm
aprox diameter STAR SHAPED HOLE side to side from the rock (1.2mts!!
aprox, i can put my entire arm inside it), the rock will be 1ton aprox.
and the output hole should be around 18cm diameter aprox. so is cone
shaped too, and also has a spiral twist. I dont think this could be
human made, it is in the middle of nothing, and the zone is not an
archaeological area, no aztecs, mayas or whatsoever on this side of
mexico.
Any help to identify would be apreciate.
You are correct Sir,
This is not human made, only very high intensity laser beam would allow
such
engineering !
Thank you for the intelligence update, Jean-Paul. I'd really like to know
what frequency and maximum range the laser had. How far away do you think
the laser was when it was used?
While you are at it, could you ask him how they put the spiral in the
laser beam?
He who has the gold may well make the rules, but he who has the technology
can take all the gold he wants.
Thanks in Advance...
Eric Stevens
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| User: "Thomas A. Russ" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
09 Aug 2005 12:40:14 PM |
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Eric Stevens <eric.stevens@sum.co.nz> writes:
While you are at it, could you ask him how they put the spiral in the
laser beam?
Oh, that's easy. They moved the laser in a spiral while drilling.
It's explained by the Principle of Conservation of Curvilinear Motion.
See, for example http://tinyurl.com/bbhpz
and
http://punya.educ.msu.edu/PunyaWeb/courses/summer02/pdfs/naivetheories.pdf
<VBG> :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
--
Thomas A. Russ, USC/Information Sciences Institute
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| User: "Scismgenie" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
08 Aug 2005 06:40:32 PM |
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Interesting, looks like Non-recent, but a real question is By whom, and
specifically "how?".
The ancients of central america were excellent sculptors in rock, but
this looks pretty advanced.
Now should this be under "physics" otr under "archealogy"? Or under
"paranormal?"
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| User: "Hatunen" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
08 Aug 2005 11:00:53 PM |
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On 8 Aug 2005 16:40:32 -0700, "Scismgenie"
<Scismgenie@adelphia.net> wrote:
Interesting, looks like Non-recent, but a real question is By whom, and
specifically "how?".
The ancients of central america were excellent sculptors in rock, but
this looks pretty advanced.
Now should this be under "physics" otr under "archealogy"? Or under
"paranormal?"
It's not that hard to make a star hole like that, starting with a
small round hole. Why someone would want it, I don't know.
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
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| User: "Jo Schaper" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
08 Aug 2005 10:10:32 PM |
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Actually it is a fossil which is a cross between a star cross-section
crinoid, and an Archimedes screw. Very common during the late
Carborundum. Interestingly the casing of these creatures seems to have
been made of silica carbide, with bits of tungsten carbide and diamond
incorporated for strength.
Now WHY they wanted to bore into solid granite is another matter
entirely....
giggles
Jo
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| User: "Nosterill" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
09 Aug 2005 02:27:18 AM |
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Nasty accident with a unicorn? Intercontinental ballistic narwhale?
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
09 Aug 2005 04:03:16 AM |
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Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud wrote:
<berserk04@gmail.com> a =E9crit dans le message de news:
1123376979.920724.211360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.vallartarestaurants.com/temp/mac.jpg
I found this in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. The place where predator 1 was
filmed. 2 hours walk in the jungle i found this big rock with a 25cm
aprox diameter STAR SHAPED HOLE side to side from the rock (1.2mts!!
aprox, i can put my entire arm inside it), the rock will be 1ton aprox.
and the output hole should be around 18cm diameter aprox. so is cone
shaped too, and also has a spiral twist. I dont think this could be
human made, it is in the middle of nothing, and the zone is not an
archaeological area, no aztecs, mayas or whatsoever on this side of
mexico.
Any help to identify would be apreciate.
You are correct Sir,
This is not human made, only very high intensity laser beam
would allow such engineering !
Thank you for the beautiful photos
--
Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud
Australia Mining Pioneer
Exploration Geologist
Fine geologist you must be, not bothering to ask if the hole
tapers, or enquiring or hazarding a guess on the kind of rock
(looks volcanic to me, maybe basalt).
I'm sure it would be easy to create a hole exactly like the
one shown, using either a suitably shaped explosive charge
packed into a smaller drilled hole, or a drill bit with five
independent cutters.
The hole was probably made to support a camera rig for filming
Predator!
~~ Ignorance Is The Cosmic Sin, The One Never Forgiven ! ~~
What a stupid pointless quote - Of necessity everyone is
ignorant about practically everything compared with all
there is to know.
(Unless you're using the word in the sense of indifference
or wilful ignorance; but even that is hardly a sin)
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| User: "pete" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
17 Aug 2005 04:22:14 PM |
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Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud wrote:
<berserk04@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1123376979.920724.211360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.vallartarestaurants.com/temp/mac.jpg
I found this in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.
The place where predator 1 was
filmed. 2 hours walk in the jungle i found this big rock with a 25cm
aprox diameter STAR SHAPED HOLE side to side from the rock (1.2mts!!
aprox, i can put my entire arm inside it),
the rock will be 1ton aprox.
and the output hole should be around 18cm diameter aprox. so is cone
shaped too, and also has a spiral twist.
I dont think this could be
human made, it is in the middle of nothing, and the zone is not an
archaeological area, no aztecs, mayas or whatsoever on this side of
mexico.
Any help to identify would be apreciate.
The shape is a hypocycloid with rounded corners.
--
pete
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
17 Aug 2005 05:18:08 PM |
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pete wrote:
Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud wrote:
=20
<berserk04@gmail.com> a =E9crit dans le message de news:
1123376979.920724.211360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.vallartarestaurants.com/temp/mac.jpg
I found this in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.
The place where predator 1 was
filmed. 2 hours walk in the jungle i found this big rock with a 25cm
aprox diameter STAR SHAPED HOLE side to side from the rock (1.2mts!!
aprox, i can put my entire arm inside it),
the rock will be 1ton aprox.
and the output hole should be around 18cm diameter aprox. so is cone
shaped too, and also has a spiral twist.
I dont think this could be
human made, it is in the middle of nothing, and the zone is not an
archaeological area, no aztecs, mayas or whatsoever on this side of
mexico.
Any help to identify would be apreciate.
=20
=20
The shape is a hypocycloid with rounded corners.
Perhaps made by a long, somewhat flexible rotary drill shaft, bouncing=20
around in the hole it had already drilled.
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| User: "pete" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
17 Aug 2005 06:28:56 PM |
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John Popelish wrote:
pete wrote:
Sir Jean-Paul Turcaud wrote:
<berserk04@gmail.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
1123376979.920724.211360@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
http://www.vallartarestaurants.com/temp/mac.jpg
I found this in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.
The place where predator 1 was
filmed. 2 hours walk in the jungle i found this big rock with a 25cm
aprox diameter STAR SHAPED HOLE side to side from the rock (1.2mts!!
aprox, i can put my entire arm inside it),
the rock will be 1ton aprox.
and the output hole should be around 18cm diameter aprox. so is cone
shaped too, and also has a spiral twist.
I dont think this could be
human made, it is in the middle of nothing, and the zone is not an
archaeological area, no aztecs, mayas or whatsoever on this side of
mexico.
Any help to identify would be apreciate.
The shape is a hypocycloid with rounded corners.
Perhaps made by a long, somewhat flexible rotary drill shaft, bouncing
around in the hole it had already drilled.
There was a lot of drilling going on in the stone age.
I think most modern people have a hard time imagining
stone age tools operating at high rotational speeds.
http://www.mindspring.com/~pfilandr/gorget.htm
"May 1998 I found this broken shale pendantor or gorget.
The conical hole was drilled at an oblique angle from both sides
coaxialy towards the middle. Bob thinks these may have been used
for making cordage. He's also given me a practical
demonstration of how a bannerstone can be used as a flywheel to
stabilize a dart shaft being turned with a bow."
"Bob" is Bob Berg.
http://www.thunderbirdatlatl.com/
--
pete
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| User: "John Popelish" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
17 Aug 2005 07:38:58 PM |
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pete wrote:
John Popelish wrote:
pete wrote:
The shape is a hypocycloid with rounded corners.
Perhaps made by a long, somewhat flexible rotary drill shaft, bouncing
around in the hole it had already drilled.
There was a lot of drilling going on in the stone age.
I think most modern people have a hard time imagining
stone age tools operating at high rotational speeds.
(snip)
I see nothing indicating that the hole is not modern.
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| User: "pete" |
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| Title: Re: Spiral Star Shaped Cone Hole in rock. what could it be? |
17 Aug 2005 10:45:39 PM |
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John Popelish wrote:
pete wrote:
John Popelish wrote:
pete wrote:
The shape is a hypocycloid with rounded corners.
Perhaps made by a long,
somewhat flexible rotary drill shaft, bouncing
around in the hole it had already drilled.
There was a lot of drilling going on in the stone age.
I think most modern people have a hard time imagining
stone age tools operating at high rotational speeds.
(snip)
I see nothing indicating that the hole is not modern.
OK.
It looks like granite.
The only things I know made of granite with holes
about that size going through them, are millstones.
--
pete
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