On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:29:01 -0000
"Dave" <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:

"Clarence" <No@No.Com> wrote in message
news:ckn1d.15135$QJ3.3999@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...

"nightbat" <nightbat@home.ffni.com> wrote in message
news:4145BCE8.9D24CDF0@home.ffni.com...

nightbat wrote

"Richard S. Westmoreland" wrote:

"nightbat" <nightbat@home.ffni.com> wrote in message
news:41459FC0.43434B4D@home.ffni.com...

nightbat wrote

Cactus88 wrote:

I think the UN should do something useful for once and make
an all out effort to advance the (some say unachievable)
goal of a practical Cold Fusion free energy generator.

<snip>

Probably there is no possible way the UN can do anything useful due
to the organization being a debating society with delusions of
godhood. "No

power

there!"

wait a minute! there might be something to this... how about
collecting the generated hot air from the UN and using that to
generate power. with all the debating going on there should be enough
to power a small country or two, or maybe a block of NYC.

Trouble is most of the talking goes on outside of the building now as
it's bugged by the Brits ;-)

nightbat wrote
hanson wrote:

"Arnold Walker" <arnold@inu.net> wrote in message

"nightbat" <nightbat@home.ffni.com> wrote in message

nightbat wrote
"Richard S. Westmoreland" wrote:

"nightbat" wrote

nightbat wrote
Cactus88 wrote:

I think the UN should do something useful for once and make
an all out effort to advance the (some say unachievable) goal
of a practical Cold Fusion free energy generator.

[hanson]
Cactus88, are you mad or are you working for the UN?
These UN *****- and otherwise -suckers are so corrupt
that they can't even run a simple food for oil program
without stealing it blind & rather let poor recipient children
die in order to enrich themselves from the graft. The UN is
the ultimate nepotistic rich boy club having hijacked and is
hiding behind democratic principles. -- To boot and along
the same lines, and for the same reasons, the UN pushes for
the admin takeover of the Kydioto protocol, the global warming
lies in order to collect graft from the extortions of their carbon taxes.
Who in their right mind wants to charge money for warm weather?
Only miserable, misanthropic green enviro shits, especially the
bureaucratic kind. I say: *****'em.... *****'em...*****'EM!!!

[nightbat]

Ok, Cactus88, I'll get on it right away, oh wait, didn't someone
on these groups say that the end of the oil age was upon us?
Didn't they say they had the engine that was ending the oil crisis.
Didn't they say it wasn't a tale?
Didn't a lot of folks flame them but they went bravely
on stating that the US Navy or Big three Auto boys short
changed them or something to that effect?
Doesn't he have a buddy named Morituri-Max that won't
apparently leave him alone and follows him around like a puppy?
And what ever happened to Mr.Cagle's none nuclear regulatory
license necessary miniature fusion device?

Why cold fusion? I don't think we should be trying to use our limited
supply of water as fuel. We should focus more on solar-based energy
sources that can be converted into alcohol based fuels.
Rick

[nightbat]

Well Rick, agriculture is very heavy fresh water dependent as a
general rule. And Uncle Al previously posted that the researched and
tried present necessary high fuel processing costs payback for corn or
other fuel crop bushel yields to alcohol conversion ratios were not cost
effective. There is a guy over in newsgroup alt.energy.homepower by the
name of Steve Spence that says the use of spent cooking oil in adapted
diesel engines is economical and feasible if apparently only a few know
about it versus sudden mass demand. Wasn't one of the original German
rear engine diesel Volkswagen, Mercedes cars, or didn't the guy who
invented the diesel engine originally design it to run on peanut oil?

[Ahhhnold]

Rape seed,actually
Same as all the diesel Zeppellins including the Hindeburg.

[hanson]
In the final WWII years, 44/45, the Germans had developed the
Mannesmann Diesel engine to run their monster tanks, like the
Panther, the Tiger & the King-Tiger Panzers.
The engines ran on anything that had caloric value. Gasoline,
Diesel, EtOH, MeOH, Tar/water emulsions, Sugar water, Rendered
Fat/water emulsions, Vegetable oils, etc.
Mileage was relatively unimportant because fuel could be obtained
in the go in every farm and village. Engine durability is not known
because the life-expectancy of these tanks was short due to
the allied rocketry from "above".
hanson

Wait, who is mad here, Hanson is this a slip up on your part,
must be, for I didn't realize the Allies had rocketry science circa
44/45,

for I thought, and as reported by my father, only the Germans
did? Or I take it you meant allied bomb runs right, because from what I
understood the rocketry science came out of the top secret hidden labs
of the Wernher von Braun Peenemunde scientist and engineer group that
gave themselves up to the allies at the end of the war? With the
Russians getting the rest of the production team despite Hitler's late
war orders to kill all of them. The Nazi's took over the original German
government funding of Von Braun's rocket research group which the great
scientist regretted. When the Hitler ordered first successful rocket
landed on England during the war, Von Braun was known for anti Nazi
saying " The rocket worked perfectly except for landing on the wrong
planet ".

See:
http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/history/VonBraun/Germany.html


the nightbat

"beavith" <beavith1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:pfsdk01ntnt2hscb1564ak6ab756oi9hji@4ax.com...

ethanol? pretty much the only economical way. economic alcohol from
cellulose would be a major breakthrough.
the brazilians use bagasse (cane sugar waste) to make alcohol, but you
run into the same economics.

methanol from coal is doable, but its also an energy intensive
process.

Save the corn for the cows.

http://biotech.about.com/library/weekly/aa_gasfromgarbage.htm

yeah, but you need garbage in the first place. you will always get
out less energy than the energy put in to make the product in the
first place.

http://www.iogen.ca/3000.html

http://www.oceanethanol.com/

If you're using enzymes/microbes to break down waste cellulose, that
otherwise would have been burned because of excess, then you're getting a
net gain of usable energy that you otherwise would not have had. And as far
as the OceanEthanol process, you could use wind and solar energy to separate
the hydrogen and oxygen from the water, then use carbon dioxide from exhaust
or the air to create the alcohol. It's easier to store than hydrogen or
electricity. The byproduct is oxygen. Can't beat that!

Rick

"beavith" <beavith1@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:pfsdk01ntnt2hscb1564ak6ab756oi9hji@4ax.com...

ethanol? pretty much the only economical way. economic alcohol from
cellulose would be a major breakthrough.
the brazilians use bagasse (cane sugar waste) to make alcohol, but you
run into the same economics.

methanol from coal is doable, but its also an energy intensive
process.

Save the corn for the cows.

http://biotech.about.com/library/weekly/aa_gasfromgarbage.htm

yeah, but you need garbage in the first place. you will always get
out less energy than the energy put in to make the product in the
first place.

http://www.iogen.ca/3000.html

http://www.oceanethanol.com/

Rick
If you're using enzymes/microbes to break down waste cellulose, that
otherwise would have been burned because of excess, then you're getting a
net gain of usable energy that you otherwise would not have had. And as far
as the OceanEthanol process, you could use wind and solar energy to separate
the hydrogen and oxygen from the water, then use carbon dioxide from exhaust
or the air to create the alcohol. It's easier to store than hydrogen or
electricity. The byproduct is oxygen. Can't beat that!

Rick