Repost: Photoelectric effect



 Science > Physics > Repost: Photoelectric effect

LINK TO THIS PAGE  


rating :  0   |  0


  Page 1 of 1

1

 
Topic: Science > Physics
User: "Richard"
Date: 17 Apr 2004 10:57:20 PM
Object: Repost: Photoelectric effect
A couple of years back I showed quantitatively that the photoelectric
effect is nothing more than a result of conservation of energy, and of
the atomic orbital system of discrete "charges". IOW, the result of the
experiment is what must occur if energy is conserved. It says absolutely
nothing about the nature of the energy propagated, i.e. how it is
propagated, or in what form.
We have a given source of em radiation emitting monochromatic light of
frequency f. It is an empirical observation that the atomic spectrum
involves the relationship E = hf, or IOW, whenever we see a given
frequency emitted due to a change in electron orbitals, that the atom
emits an energy hf. This is an atom specific effect, and there is no
basis to conclude that the product hf holds as an absolute rule for all
emitted em energy.
If we assume all of the energy emitted from the source is absorbed by
the metal surface (which is a good approximation if the source energy
propagates in the form a narrow beam, then all of this energy must show
up at the detector. If the work function is equal to or less than an
energy hf, then electrons will be ejected. Note that this doesn't prove,
or even imply that the energy is propagated in discrete bundles, but
only that in atomic matter it is emitted and absorbed in relatively
discrete quantities. It is quite likely that a constructive node is
providing the energy hf to the electron, which itself has an orbital
that responds to waves of a given frequency, i.e. the orbital behaves as
an antenna with a "high Q" (Radio terminology). The electron must be in
phase with the incoming waves in order to gain KE by their interaction
with them, just as a director or reflector element interacts with the
driven element. This equally explains the phenomenon of a lower cutoff
frequency. Actually it is a much more sensible explanation, in that we
have a direct macroscopic test in the form of radio transmission and
reception.
By the law of conservation of energy, assuming no energy retained by any
other components in the metal, we must have:
n*(hf + KE_average) = E_total_incident
n is just the number of photo electrons emitted from the metal surface.
This is just conservation of energy, and though we can speculate that
this is due to an exchange of discrete energy bundles between electrons
in the source and target, this interpretation, OTOH, fails when
considering VLF radiation.
The math of QT can deal with these other systems, but it must abandon
the absoluteness of the photon, and in so doing has simply admitted to
their nonexistence. The math of QT is just a pixelized version of wave
mechanics with different names applied to the terms. Make the pixels
small enough and you can approximate analogue systems. Make the pixels
the size of atomic radiation wavelengths and you can get an even closer
fit when discussing atomic spectra. Conveniently at lower frequencies
the pixelation is so great that it isn't testable.
There is no level at which the analogue model breaks down:
1) The classical analogue model is wrong, thus the seeming discrepancies
with quantum reality.
2) The quantum model is also wrong, thus the seeming discrepancies with
analogue reality.
IOW, given the correct description of the em field and em interactions
all observations can be easily accounted for, no magic or illogic required.
Now let's bring in context. The idea of the discrete "photon" certainly
works to describe the effect, that is, when the effect is considered
independent of other contexts. OTOH, it was Einstein himself that had
already provided a context with which this notion of the photon is at
odds, namely Special Relativity, simply because this model eliminates
light altogether as a reality. Within the context of the Minkowski
metric, light is just an illusion caused by thinking in terms of
Newton's absolute time-flow.
Few of you will understand the above arguments, and fewer still who do
understand them will accept them at face value, so I'll urge those fewer
still of you to look over the electromagnetic treatise that I've work
out, and to go back and reconsider your concepts about "motion in time".
The electron field is a perfect inverse square "vector" field at any
instant, regardless of its motion, when it is viewed as extending
through 4d space-time rather than through 3d space, and thus any waving
or pancaking of that field is a perspective-induced illusion, as
detailed above.
Richard Perry
http://www.cswnet.com/~rper/Electromagnetism.html
.

User: "FrediFizzx"

Title: Re: Repost: Photoelectric effect 18 Apr 2004 12:36:57 AM
"Richard" <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c5su31$5d05b$1@ID-153527.news.uni-berlin.de...
|
| A couple of years back I showed quantitatively that the photoelectric
| effect is nothing more than a result of conservation of energy, and of
| the atomic orbital system of discrete "charges". IOW, the result of the
| experiment is what must occur if energy is conserved. It says absolutely
| nothing about the nature of the energy propagated, i.e. how it is
| propagated, or in what form.
|
| We have a given source of em radiation emitting monochromatic light of
| frequency f. It is an empirical observation that the atomic spectrum
| involves the relationship E = hf, or IOW, whenever we see a given
| frequency emitted due to a change in electron orbitals, that the atom
| emits an energy hf. This is an atom specific effect, and there is no
| basis to conclude that the product hf holds as an absolute rule for all
| emitted em energy.
|
| If we assume all of the energy emitted from the source is absorbed by
| the metal surface (which is a good approximation if the source energy
| propagates in the form a narrow beam, then all of this energy must show
| up at the detector. If the work function is equal to or less than an
| energy hf, then electrons will be ejected. Note that this doesn't prove,
| or even imply that the energy is propagated in discrete bundles, but
| only that in atomic matter it is emitted and absorbed in relatively
| discrete quantities. It is quite likely that a constructive node is
| providing the energy hf to the electron, which itself has an orbital
| that responds to waves of a given frequency, i.e. the orbital behaves as
| an antenna with a "high Q" (Radio terminology). The electron must be in
| phase with the incoming waves in order to gain KE by their interaction
| with them, just as a director or reflector element interacts with the
| driven element. This equally explains the phenomenon of a lower cutoff
| frequency. Actually it is a much more sensible explanation, in that we
| have a direct macroscopic test in the form of radio transmission and
| reception.
|
| By the law of conservation of energy, assuming no energy retained by any
| other components in the metal, we must have:
| n*(hf + KE_average) = E_total_incident
| n is just the number of photo electrons emitted from the metal surface.
|
| This is just conservation of energy, and though we can speculate that
| this is due to an exchange of discrete energy bundles between electrons
| in the source and target, this interpretation, OTOH, fails when
| considering VLF radiation.
| The math of QT can deal with these other systems, but it must abandon
| the absoluteness of the photon, and in so doing has simply admitted to
| their nonexistence. The math of QT is just a pixelized version of wave
| mechanics with different names applied to the terms. Make the pixels
| small enough and you can approximate analogue systems. Make the pixels
| the size of atomic radiation wavelengths and you can get an even closer
| fit when discussing atomic spectra. Conveniently at lower frequencies
| the pixelation is so great that it isn't testable.
|
| There is no level at which the analogue model breaks down:
| 1) The classical analogue model is wrong, thus the seeming discrepancies
| with quantum reality.
| 2) The quantum model is also wrong, thus the seeming discrepancies with
| analogue reality.
|
| IOW, given the correct description of the em field and em interactions
| all observations can be easily accounted for, no magic or illogic
required.
|
| Now let's bring in context. The idea of the discrete "photon" certainly
| works to describe the effect, that is, when the effect is considered
| independent of other contexts. OTOH, it was Einstein himself that had
| already provided a context with which this notion of the photon is at
| odds, namely Special Relativity, simply because this model eliminates
| light altogether as a reality. Within the context of the Minkowski
| metric, light is just an illusion caused by thinking in terms of
| Newton's absolute time-flow.
|
| Few of you will understand the above arguments, and fewer still who do
| understand them will accept them at face value, so I'll urge those fewer
| still of you to look over the electromagnetic treatise that I've work
| out, and to go back and reconsider your concepts about "motion in time".
| The electron field is a perfect inverse square "vector" field at any
| instant, regardless of its motion, when it is viewed as extending
| through 4d space-time rather than through 3d space, and thus any waving
| or pancaking of that field is a perspective-induced illusion, as
| detailed above.
|
| Richard Perry
| http://www.cswnet.com/~rper/Electromagnetism.html
Richard, learn how to use Equation Editor in MS Word and get rid of all your
ascii math. Sheesh, it only took me a couple of hours to learn how to use
Equation Editor and convert to html. Your presentation will be much cleaner
and maybe I will try to read it again.
FrediFizzx
.
User: "Richard"

Title: Re: Repost: Photoelectric effect 18 Apr 2004 09:08:56 AM
FrediFizzx wrote:

"Richard" <no_mail_no_spam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:c5su31$5d05b$1@ID-153527.news.uni-berlin.de...
|
| A couple of years back I showed quantitatively that the photoelectric
| effect is nothing more than a result of conservation of energy, and of
| the atomic orbital system of discrete "charges". IOW, the result of the
| experiment is what must occur if energy is conserved. It says absolutely
| nothing about the nature of the energy propagated, i.e. how it is
| propagated, or in what form.
|
| We have a given source of em radiation emitting monochromatic light of
| frequency f. It is an empirical observation that the atomic spectrum
| involves the relationship E = hf, or IOW, whenever we see a given
| frequency emitted due to a change in electron orbitals, that the atom
| emits an energy hf. This is an atom specific effect, and there is no
| basis to conclude that the product hf holds as an absolute rule for all
| emitted em energy.
|
| If we assume all of the energy emitted from the source is absorbed by
| the metal surface (which is a good approximation if the source energy
| propagates in the form a narrow beam, then all of this energy must show
| up at the detector. If the work function is equal to or less than an
| energy hf, then electrons will be ejected. Note that this doesn't prove,
| or even imply that the energy is propagated in discrete bundles, but
| only that in atomic matter it is emitted and absorbed in relatively
| discrete quantities. It is quite likely that a constructive node is
| providing the energy hf to the electron, which itself has an orbital
| that responds to waves of a given frequency, i.e. the orbital behaves as
| an antenna with a "high Q" (Radio terminology). The electron must be in
| phase with the incoming waves in order to gain KE by their interaction
| with them, just as a director or reflector element interacts with the
| driven element. This equally explains the phenomenon of a lower cutoff
| frequency. Actually it is a much more sensible explanation, in that we
| have a direct macroscopic test in the form of radio transmission and
| reception.
|
| By the law of conservation of energy, assuming no energy retained by any
| other components in the metal, we must have:
| n*(hf + KE_average) = E_total_incident
| n is just the number of photo electrons emitted from the metal surface.
|
| This is just conservation of energy, and though we can speculate that
| this is due to an exchange of discrete energy bundles between electrons
| in the source and target, this interpretation, OTOH, fails when
| considering VLF radiation.
| The math of QT can deal with these other systems, but it must abandon
| the absoluteness of the photon, and in so doing has simply admitted to
| their nonexistence. The math of QT is just a pixelized version of wave
| mechanics with different names applied to the terms. Make the pixels
| small enough and you can approximate analogue systems. Make the pixels
| the size of atomic radiation wavelengths and you can get an even closer
| fit when discussing atomic spectra. Conveniently at lower frequencies
| the pixelation is so great that it isn't testable.
|
| There is no level at which the analogue model breaks down:
| 1) The classical analogue model is wrong, thus the seeming discrepancies
| with quantum reality.
| 2) The quantum model is also wrong, thus the seeming discrepancies with
| analogue reality.
|
| IOW, given the correct description of the em field and em interactions
| all observations can be easily accounted for, no magic or illogic
required.
|
| Now let's bring in context. The idea of the discrete "photon" certainly
| works to describe the effect, that is, when the effect is considered
| independent of other contexts. OTOH, it was Einstein himself that had
| already provided a context with which this notion of the photon is at
| odds, namely Special Relativity, simply because this model eliminates
| light altogether as a reality. Within the context of the Minkowski
| metric, light is just an illusion caused by thinking in terms of
| Newton's absolute time-flow.
|
| Few of you will understand the above arguments, and fewer still who do
| understand them will accept them at face value, so I'll urge those fewer
| still of you to look over the electromagnetic treatise that I've work
| out, and to go back and reconsider your concepts about "motion in time".
| The electron field is a perfect inverse square "vector" field at any
| instant, regardless of its motion, when it is viewed as extending
| through 4d space-time rather than through 3d space, and thus any waving
| or pancaking of that field is a perspective-induced illusion, as
| detailed above.
|
| Richard Perry
| http://www.cswnet.com/~rper/Electromagnetism.html

Richard, learn how to use Equation Editor in MS Word and get rid of all your
ascii math. Sheesh, it only took me a couple of hours to learn how to use
Equation Editor and convert to html. Your presentation will be much cleaner
and maybe I will try to read it again.

FrediFizzx

Since you were so kind as to convert an early version of it to pdf for
me, I'll see what I can do:)
Richard Perry
.



  Page 1 of 1

1

 


Related Articles
 

NEWER

pg.1612     pg.1232     pg.940     pg.716     pg.544     pg.412     pg.311     pg.234     pg.175     pg.130     pg.96     pg.70     pg.50     pg.35     pg.24     pg.16     pg.10     pg.6     pg.3     pg.1

OLDER