| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Cesar Sirvent" |
| Date: |
01 Aug 2003 06:35:56 AM |
| Object: |
Revolution in Physics? |
Here is a rebuttal of Lynds assertions.
http://www.thequantummachine.com
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| User: "Starblade Darksquall" |
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| Title: Re: Revolution in Physics? |
02 Aug 2003 05:25:33 PM |
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(Cesar Sirvent) wrote in message news:<2410d7e.0308010335.3198d488@posting.google.com>...
Here is a rebuttal of Lynds assertions.
http://www.thequantummachine.com
Where can I look at Lynds' articles?
(...Starblade Riven Darksquall...)
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| User: "Cesar Sirvent" |
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| Title: Re: Revolution in Physics? |
04 Aug 2003 04:33:30 AM |
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check http://www.thequantummachine.com for a version of the paper and analysis.
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| User: "Undeniable" |
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| Title: Re: Revolution in Physics? |
01 Aug 2003 12:54:44 PM |
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(Cesar Sirvent) wrote in message news:<2410d7e.0308010335.3198d488@posting.google.com>...
Here is a rebuttal of Lynds assertions.
http://www.thequantummachine.com
much ado about nothing
Lynds is a crank. He confuses mathematical consistency with features
of reality. This is the trap set by Zeno. Newton answered it by making
clear that features of reality are of no concern to him if his
mathematical constructs make accurate predictions.
In other words, this lad confuses physics and metaphysics.
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| User: "Dan Bloomquist" |
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| Title: Re: Revolution in Physics? |
01 Aug 2003 10:57:26 PM |
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Twilight Utilities wrote:
I'm not sure the doppler shift rebuttal is necessarily correct. I have to
think about it some more.
In any case I wouldn't call the chap a crank. He maybe incorrect but who
among us has not erred? Was Newton a crank because he concluded that light
increased in speed when it passed through a refractive media? Lynds' work
does not pass the standard test of a crank. Judgment errors are not purely
the mark of a crank, they are in fact part and parcel of just being human.
For myself, I slowed to a crawl on this one because:
1) John Wheeler accepts it
2) Hawking has so far withheld judgment
3) A sufficient number of respected referees have passed it.
4) It's not immediately obvious to me
If he is a "crank" he is in a rare group that has passed these tests.
I was curious enough to download:
<http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:AP2Udx6uxwkJ:philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00001197/02/Zeno%27s_Paradoxes_-_A_Timely_Solution.pdf+%22Peter+Lynds%22+paper&hl=en&ie=UTF-8>
All I could make of it is, that like Zeno, he creates a premise that
'could' lead to a paradox.
Without bases, he states( page 6):
------
Regardless of how small and accurate the value is made
however, it
cannot indicate a precise static instant in time at which a
value would theoretically be precisely
determined, because there is not a precise static instant in
time underlying a dynamical physical
process. If there were, the relative position of a body in
relative motion or a specific physical
magnitude, although precisely determined at such a precise static
instant, it would also by way of
logical necessity be frozen static at that precise static instant.
Furthermore, events and all physical
magnitudes would remain frozen static, as such a precise static
instant in time would remain frozen
static at the same precise static instant: motion would not be possible.
------
Well, duh. If you don't have a 'time interval', you don't have motion.
But to extend this mental concept to reality is better left in a court
of law. (In a court of law your objective is to lure the jury into your
mindset.) Just because he creates this paradox in his mind does not mean
it has validity.
As pointed out by the other poster, just because he takes the instance
of a point and says that point doesn't have the quality of slope,
doesn't make it so. A point can clearly have the quality of slope in
calculus. And again, what we do in our heads can not possibly dictate to
nature, a reality. (Unless you are willing to get metaphysical.) So,
there should be no mystery that a moving object can have a precise
location at a given instant and have a precise relative velocity. (QM aside)
As for the matter of Wheeler and Hawking. I could find no reference on
the web. My opinion thus far is that they have either never heard of
Lynds or don't think his concepts are worth dignifying.
Best, Dan.
--
if( this == NULL )
return that;
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| User: "Undeniable" |
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| Title: Re: Revolution in Physics? |
02 Aug 2003 05:25:57 AM |
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Dan Bloomquist <lakeweb@citlink.net> wrote in message news:<3F2B369F.4060809@citlink.net>...
Twilight Utilities wrote:
I'm not sure the doppler shift rebuttal is necessarily correct. I have to
think about it some more.
In any case I wouldn't call the chap a crank. He maybe incorrect but who
among us has not erred? Was Newton a crank because he concluded that light
increased in speed when it passed through a refractive media? Lynds' work
does not pass the standard test of a crank. Judgment errors are not purely
the mark of a crank, they are in fact part and parcel of just being human.
For myself, I slowed to a crawl on this one because:
1) John Wheeler accepts it
2) Hawking has so far withheld judgment
3) A sufficient number of respected referees have passed it.
4) It's not immediately obvious to me
If he is a "crank" he is in a rare group that has passed these tests.
I was curious enough to download:
<http://216.239.53.104/search?q=cache:AP2Udx6uxwkJ:philsci-archive.pitt.edu/archive/00001197/02/Zeno%27s_Paradoxes_-_A_Timely_Solution.pdf+%22Peter+Lynds%22+paper&hl=en&ie=UTF-8>
All I could make of it is, that like Zeno, he creates a premise that
'could' lead to a paradox.
Without bases, he states( page 6):
------
Regardless of how small and accurate the value is made
however, it
cannot indicate a precise static instant in time at which a
value would theoretically be precisely
determined, because there is not a precise static instant in
time underlying a dynamical physical
process. If there were, the relative position of a body in
relative motion or a specific physical
magnitude, although precisely determined at such a precise static
instant, it would also by way of
logical necessity be frozen static at that precise static instant.
Furthermore, events and all physical
magnitudes would remain frozen static, as such a precise static
instant in time would remain frozen
static at the same precise static instant: motion would not be possible.
------
Well, duh. If you don't have a 'time interval', you don't have motion.
But to extend this mental concept to reality is better left in a court
of law. (In a court of law your objective is to lure the jury into your
mindset.) Just because he creates this paradox in his mind does not mean
it has validity.
As pointed out by the other poster, just because he takes the instance
of a point and says that point doesn't have the quality of slope,
doesn't make it so. A point can clearly have the quality of slope in
calculus. And again, what we do in our heads can not possibly dictate to
nature, a reality. (Unless you are willing to get metaphysical.) So,
there should be no mystery that a moving object can have a precise
location at a given instant and have a precise relative velocity. (QM aside)
As for the matter of Wheeler and Hawking. I could find no reference on
the web. My opinion thus far is that they have either never heard of
Lynds or don't think his concepts are worth dignifying.
Best, Dan.
I agree. I think the chap confuses human phenomenological
interpretations of motion with reality. Furthermore he makes a
circular argument based on a postulation:
"> Regardless of how small and accurate the value is made
however, it cannot indicate a precise static instant in time at >which a value would theoretically be precisely
determined, because there is not a precise static instant in
time underlying a dynamical physical process.
This logic hides two postulates:
1. Regardless of how small and accurate the value is made
however, it cannot indicate a precise static instant in time
2. there is not a precise static instant in time underlying a
dynamical physical process.
He offers no proof for those postulates because he simply cannot give
one as there are purely based on thought experiments. Then he fall in
a circular argument from 1 to 2 and back.
The chap lost an opportunity to become a lawyer. There is a lot of
this going on lately, that is sophism applied to physics. I think we
got a huge problem when journals reject the works of reputable
scientist but at the same time publish crackpot ideas.
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| User: "Ed Keane III" |
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| Title: Re: Revolution in Physics? |
01 Aug 2003 03:22:49 PM |
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Cesar Sirvent <info@thequantummachine.com> wrote in message
news:2410d7e.0308010335.3198d488@posting.google.com...
Here is a rebuttal of Lynds assertions.
http://www.thequantummachine.com
You say in your letter to Lynds-
You seem to object that there is no precisely
determined relative position of a body, because
if there were, it should be "frozen".
So, correct me if I am wrong, but you object
that there is no difference between a body set
in motion and a static body if we accept a
precisely determined relative position. Since,
there cannot be p.d.r. position.
Are you sure that you did not misunderstand him?
I think that his point is that there *is* a difference
between a moving and a stationary object.
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| User: "Cesar Sirvent" |
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| Title: Re: Revolution in Physics? |
02 Aug 2003 07:44:49 AM |
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Yes, it is his point. He tries to demonstrate that by reductio ad
absurdum. But he fails there.
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| User: "Undeniable" |
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| Title: Re: Revolution in Physics? |
02 Aug 2003 02:01:14 PM |
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(Cesar Sirvent) wrote in message news:<2410d7e.0308020444.7b1ff9e2@posting.google.com>...
Yes, it is his point. He tries to demonstrate that by reductio ad
absurdum. But he fails there.
Good point. You can't resolve a reductio ad absurdum paradox by
reductio ad absurdum logic based on the same premises and conclusion.
He is fairly circular. I read his paper. A lot of hand waiving,
besides he stating that the velocity is v = Delta d/Delta t and power
P = W/t. This is really a joke. There isn't a single formula
supporting his thesis. It's not even clear what his thesis is. Even
worse, he doesn't offer a clear statement of what his conclusions are
besided a terrible mix of language terms not related to physics but to
metaphysics.
He passed my crank test with an A+.
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