| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Jan Panteltje" |
| Date: |
04 Apr 2007 05:12:20 AM |
| Object: |
Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/04/business/worldbusiness/04gps.html?pagewanted=1&ref=technology
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
07 Apr 2007 08:24:21 AM |
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Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/04/business/worldbusiness/04gps.html?pagewanted=1&ref=technology
Hey Jan--You can have a look at some of the GPS performance measures
http://199.31.3.34/GpsSupportCenter/archive/Frontpage/HorError_2005.jpg
http://199.31.3.34/GpsSupportCenter/performance_reports.htm
-Sam
http://edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_accuracy.html
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| User: "G=EMC^2 Glazier" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
07 Apr 2007 05:36:00 PM |
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It was the use of Einstein's time delation that made the measurements
very accurate in the case of GPS Bert
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
08 Apr 2007 12:55:30 AM |
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The article doesn't say GLONASS is more accurate than GPS. In fact,
it's not.
It says GPS with GLONASS augmentation is slightly more accurate, but
that would depend on the geometry. In theory, more observables means
better geometry which means better accuracy.
A GLONASS-only receiver is much less accurate than GPS due to it's
inferior clock and ephemeris data.
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/04/business/worldbusiness/04gps.html?p...
Hey Jan--You can have a look at some of the GPS performance measures
http://199.31.3.34/GpsSupportCenter/archive/Frontpage/HorError_2005.jpg
http://199.31.3.34/GpsSupportCenter/performance_reports.htm
-Sam
http://edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_accuracy.html
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
08 Apr 2007 06:11:42 AM |
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On a sunny day (7 Apr 2007 22:55:30 -0700) it happened
wrote in <1176011730.566375.13700@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>:
The article doesn't say GLONASS is more accurate than GPS. In fact,
it's not.
It says GPS with GLONASS augmentation is slightly more accurate, but
that would depend on the geometry. In theory, more observables means
better geometry which means better accuracy.
A GLONASS-only receiver is much less accurate than GPS due to it's
inferior clock and ephemeris data.
Dunno about the last remark, but you ara right on the first.
Of course US GPS is not reliable in any way, as are any of its govs
publications, because it is under political control.
This fact (and not only Einsteinian fiddlings Herb :-)) already improves the
chance that using a device with both systems would reveal the right position.
;-) (or at least 2 different ons).
Political positioning affects the Russian system too of course, it is like
TV, I sometimes, in difficult cases, watch Russia-today AND CNN.
So (to Sam), I cannot match that error data for the Russian system.
In my country many people buy GPS toys.
It may or may not help, there are signs on the corner of most roads.
I have a little compas, and only _once_ have I used it in a dark night in the
car to find a general direction to drive (north) to find the next main
road....
It would be good if they keep teaching people how to do basic positioning and
without GPS.
OTOH a device that tells you: 'nextleft next right' is fine too.
Somebody heard it say: '40 meters more forward', and then dived into the river
where once the bridge was...
So, high tech....
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/04/business/worldbusiness/04gps.html?p...
Hey Jan--You can have a look at some of the GPS performance measures
http://199.31.3.34/GpsSupportCenter/archive/Frontpage/HorError_2005.jpg
http://199.31.3.34/GpsSupportCenter/performance_reports.htm
-Sam
http://edu-observatory.org/gps/gps_accuracy.html
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
08 Apr 2007 08:37:44 PM |
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Jan Panteltje wrote:
Of course US GPS is not reliable in any way, as are any of its govs
publications, because it is under political control.
Jan--GPS has been very reliable for me for the last 15 years! I
expect it to continue to be so. There is a 30 billion dollar
industry dependent on those signals from space.
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
09 Apr 2007 05:55:19 AM |
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On a sunny day (Mon, 09 Apr 2007 01:37:44 GMT) it happened Sam Wormley
<swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in <INgSh.41317$_c5.29475@attbi_s22>:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Of course US GPS is not reliable in any way, as are any of its govs
publications, because it is under political control.
Jan--GPS has been very reliable for me for the last 15 years! I
expect it to continue to be so. There is a 30 billion dollar
industry dependent on those signals from space.
I was referring to for example Iran-UK.
But also it is so much under political control that as for an arms race or
new cold war, switching the US GPS off is something to be taken into
account.
It is exactly for _that_ reason Europe and Russia are working on their own version,
and perhaps China too.
Lets just hope all those sats do not collide :-)
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| User: "Victor Fraenckel" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
08 Apr 2007 08:58:13 PM |
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Sam Wormley wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Of course US GPS is not reliable in any way, as are any of its govs
publications, because it is under political control.
And you really believe that Glonass is not under political control?
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
09 Apr 2007 05:55:55 AM |
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On a sunny day (Sun, 08 Apr 2007 21:58:13 -0400) it happened Victor Fraenckel
<victorf@windreader.com> wrote in <46199DB5.8020907@windreader.com>:
Sam Wormley wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Of course US GPS is not reliable in any way, as are any of its govs
publications, because it is under political control.
And you really believe that Glonass is not under political control?
In an other posting I have actually mentioned that it is.
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
08 Apr 2007 09:02:45 PM |
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Victor Fraenckel wrote:
Sam Wormley wrote:
Jan Panteltje wrote:
Of course US GPS is not reliable in any way, as are any of its govs
publications, because it is under political control.
And you really believe that Glonass is not under political control?
Even Galileo (if it ever happens) will be under political control!
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
08 Apr 2007 12:04:58 PM |
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Ok, the paranoia patrol is out.
No, Big Brother doesn't care what you ate for breakfast. He doesn't
care what's on your computer.
GPS is more reliable than your car, your television and your mobile
phone.
Of course US GPS is not reliable in any way, as are any of its govs
publications, because it is under political control.
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
08 Apr 2007 12:41:25 PM |
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On a sunny day (8 Apr 2007 10:04:58 -0700) it happened
wrote in <1176051898.398107.102180@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
Ok, the paranoia patrol is out.
Oh yea, like for human made global warming, that you likely subscribe to.
No, Big Brother doesn't care what you ate for breakfast.
Actually he does, there are plenty food checking arms of
the US gov for example checking stuff that comes on the market.
He doesn't
care what's on your computer.
He/ she (Germany)_DOES_ care what is on your computer, germany even wants
law that allows the gov to hack yoyur PC and check its contenst without you
knowing about it.
GPS is more reliable than your car, your television and your mobile
phone.
No, GPS can be easily locally jammed...
It is next to impossible to stop a oldfashion diesel remotely.
You _could_ try very srong EMP on the moder car electroncis.
You have been proven wrong on all points today, hopefully for you this was a
day where your brain had a vacation, else I suggest you buy one.
Of course US GPS is not reliable in any way, as are any of its govs
publications, because it is under political control.
As for example Iran versus Brittan... and that was using the US GPS by both LOL.
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| User: "Dale DePriest" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
12 Apr 2007 09:29:39 AM |
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Jan Panteltje wrote:
GPS is more reliable than your car, your television and your mobile
phone.
No, GPS can be easily locally jammed...
The GPS system of satellites is very reliable. It is possible but not
particularly easy to jam the signal but that really has nothing to do
with the constellation. Glonass is also easily jammed using the same
techniques and it is likely that the new Galileo system if it ever gets
built will also be easily jammed to this whole basis for bad mouthing
the GPS is a red herring.
Dale
--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
08 Apr 2007 03:56:19 PM |
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Ok. The flood gates are open and the nutcases are in.....take shelter.
On a sunny day (8 Apr 2007 10:04:58 -0700) it happened
wrote in <1176051898.398107.102...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
Ok, the paranoia patrol is out.
Oh yea, like for human made global warming, that you likely subscribe to.
No, Big Brother doesn't care what you ate for breakfast.
Actually he does, there are plenty food checking arms of
the US gov for example checking stuff that comes on the market.
He doesn't
care what's on your computer.
He/ she (Germany)_DOES_ care what is on your computer, germany even wants
law that allows the gov to hack yoyur PC and check its contenst without you
knowing about it.
GPS is more reliable than your car, your television and your mobile
phone.
No, GPS can be easily locally jammed...
It is next to impossible to stop a oldfashion diesel remotely.
You _could_ try very srong EMP on the moder car electroncis.
You have been proven wrong on all points today, hopefully for you this was a
day where your brain had a vacation, else I suggest you buy one.
Of course US GPS is not reliable in any way, as are any of its govs
publications, because it is under political control.
As for example Iran versus Brittan... and that was using the US GPS by both LOL.
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| User: "Jan Panteltje" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
08 Apr 2007 04:12:08 PM |
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On a sunny day (8 Apr 2007 13:56:19 -0700) it happened
wrote in <1176065779.402578.148350@b75g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
Ok. The flood gates are open and the nutcases are in.....take shelter.
You seem to be the little sort of creep that only insults, talks nonsense.
You never address any issue.
You have no education or knowledge of either sat_a..., GPS, politics,
the world at present, Usenet, war(fan)fare, I strongly suggest you stop posting
to normal newsgroups and find one that matches your brain farts
like 'paranoia' 'nutcases' 'is not so' (bomb)shelters, etc.. and stop bothering us.
or go search for Bunnys' Easter egg.
On a sunny day (8 Apr 2007 10:04:58 -0700) it happened
wrote in <1176051898.398107.102...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>:
Ok, the paranoia patrol is out.
Oh yea, like for human made global warming, that you likely subscribe to.
No, Big Brother doesn't care what you ate for breakfast.
Actually he does, there are plenty food checking arms of
the US gov for example checking stuff that comes on the market.
He doesn't
care what's on your computer.
He/ she (Germany)_DOES_ care what is on your computer, germany even wants
law that allows the gov to hack yoyur PC and check its contenst without you
knowing about it.
GPS is more reliable than your car, your television and your mobile
phone.
No, GPS can be easily locally jammed...
It is next to impossible to stop a oldfashion diesel remotely.
You _could_ try very srong EMP on the moder car electroncis.
You have been proven wrong on all points today, hopefully for you this was a
day where your brain had a vacation, else I suggest you buy one.
Of course US GPS is not reliable in any way, as are any of its govs
publications, because it is under political control.
As for example Iran versus Brittan... and that was using the US GPS by both LOL.
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| User: "Puppet_Sock" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
12 Apr 2007 12:13:04 PM |
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On Apr 8, 7:11 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[snip]
Political positioning affects the Russian system too of course, it is like
TV, I sometimes, in difficult cases, watch Russia-today AND CNN.
Which do you expect will accidentally have more truth?
And how will you know?
Socks
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| User: "Dale DePriest" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
12 Apr 2007 02:14:41 PM |
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Puppet_Sock wrote:
On Apr 8, 7:11 am, Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
[snip]
Political positioning affects the Russian system too of course, it is like
TV, I sometimes, in difficult cases, watch Russia-today AND CNN.
Which do you expect will accidentally have more truth?
And how will you know?
Socks
Clearly the one you agree with will have more truth. :-)
--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
14 Apr 2007 11:52:21 AM |
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I agree with your remarks for GLONASS clocks ephemeris and the
rest...
You forgot the geodetic system (PZ90) used by GLONASS for wich
transformation parameter are not perfectly know
like for the GPS (WGS 84).
But about the accuracy just one small thing :
Due to the use of differents frequency for each sv for GLONASS (only
two on GPS and only on professional system)
dopplers measurements are much more accurate on GLONASS (tested some
years ago) and in fact acceleration (e.g. for attitude sensor)
measurement is better.
utilsea
http://utilsea.free.fr
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| User: "Dale DePriest" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
14 Apr 2007 04:02:00 PM |
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wrote:
I agree with your remarks for GLONASS clocks ephemeris and the
rest...
You forgot the geodetic system (PZ90) used by GLONASS for wich
transformation parameter are not perfectly know
like for the GPS (WGS 84).
But about the accuracy just one small thing :
Due to the use of differents frequency for each sv for GLONASS (only
two on GPS and only on professional system)
dopplers measurements are much more accurate on GLONASS (tested some
years ago) and in fact acceleration (e.g. for attitude sensor)
measurement is better.
One more item is that there are only 12 frequencies available for
Glonass and each are reused once to get to the 24 satellites assuming
only one will be in the sky at a time thus it is not possible to go
beyond 24 satellites.
Dale
utilsea
http://utilsea.free.fr
--
_ _ Dale DePriest
/`) _ // http://users.cwnet.com/dalede
o/_/ (_(_X_(` For GPS and GPS/PDAs
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| User: "tj Frazir" |
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| Title: Re: Russian Glonass more accurate then US GPS |
08 Apr 2007 05:40:52 PM |
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Sigless GPS is better and never fails due a storm.
It dont nead satalites.
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