| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"seunghuicho777" |
| Date: |
04 Oct 2007 12:51:58 PM |
| Object: |
silicon lifeforms |
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
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| User: "tadchem" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
04 Oct 2007 05:57:12 PM |
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On Oct 4, 1:51 pm, seunghuicho777 <seunghuicho...@yahoo.com> wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
Compare the physical and chemical properties of CO2 and SiO2.
The oxide *must* be reducible in order to build complex (organic/
silicic) molecules with specific structural properties.
Realistically, sand is not reducible except with extremes of
temperature AND simultaneous electric current that would also destroy
the more complex structures.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
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| User: "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \dlzc" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
04 Oct 2007 08:07:46 PM |
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Dear tadchem:
"tadchem" <tadchem@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1191538632.713508.325030@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 4, 1:51 pm, seunghuicho777 <seunghuicho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like
carbon, does it not stand to reason that silicon based
life might exist somewhere in the universe? perhaps
at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of galaxies?
Compare the physical and chemical properties of CO2
and SiO2.
The oxide *must* be reducible in order to build complex
(organic/ silicic) molecules with specific structural
properties.
Realistically, sand is not reducible except with
extremes of temperature AND simultaneous electric
current that would also destroy the more complex
structures.
OK, if one is also going to substitute sulfur for oxygen, raise
the temperature well over 720 degF, and tie any free oxygen into
"rocks", what then?
Everyone seems to concentrate on oxygen being the deal breaker...
we already know how powerful oxygen is.
Still no go?
David A. Smith
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| User: "Darwin123" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
26 Oct 2007 05:03:10 PM |
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On Oct 4, 9:07 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dl...@cox.net>
wrote:
OK, if one is also going to substitute sulfur for oxygen, raise
the temperature well over 720 degF, and tie any free oxygen into
"rocks", what then?
Everyone seems to concentrate on oxygen being the deal breaker...
we already know how powerful oxygen is.
The science fiction writer, Hal Clement, wrote a novel using this
premise. Intelligent creatures are portrayed from a planet where
sulphur is used instead of oxygen. The title of the novel was "Ice
Planet." Earth is the "ice planet" in this story.
.
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| User: "tadchem" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
05 Oct 2007 04:28:37 PM |
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On Oct 4, 9:07 pm, "N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)" <dl...@cox.net>
wrote:
Dear tadchem:
"tadchem" <tadc...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1191538632.713508.325030@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 4, 1:51 pm, seunghuicho777 <seunghuicho...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like
carbon, does it not stand to reason that silicon based
life might exist somewhere in the universe? perhaps
at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of galaxies?
Compare the physical and chemical properties of CO2
and SiO2.
The oxide *must* be reducible in order to build complex
(organic/ silicic) molecules with specific structural
properties.
Realistically, sand is not reducible except with
extremes of temperature AND simultaneous electric
current that would also destroy the more complex
structures.
OK, if one is also going to substitute sulfur for oxygen, raise
the temperature well over 720 degF, and tie any free oxygen into
"rocks", what then?
If there is any oxygen present, and if there is also hydrogen present,
you will find H2O.
Silicon sulfide readily hydrolyzes to H2S and SiO2.
There would have to be a pretty strong scavenger for oxygen, stronger
than hydrogen.
A temperature of 720 deg F would require a fairly nearby star, which
would also be a source of hydrogen and (if the star is massive enough)
possibly also a source of oxygen.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CNO_cycle
Everyone seems to concentrate on oxygen being the deal breaker...
we already know how powerful oxygen is.
Still no go?
David A. Smith
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
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| User: "Potte" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
04 Oct 2007 06:46:56 PM |
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On Oct 5, 6:57 am, tadchem <tadc...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Oct 4, 1:51 pm, seunghuicho777 <seunghuicho...@yahoo.com> wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
Compare the physical and chemical properties of CO2 and SiO2.
The oxide *must* be reducible in order to build complex (organic/
silicic) molecules with specific structural properties.
Realistically, sand is not reducible except with extremes of
temperature AND simultaneous electric current that would also destroy
the more complex structures.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
The God of Chem is back. Where have you been? Just finished
a second Ph.D.?
I wonder what happens to the God of Anti-Aetherists (Bilge).
Haven't seen him around. Is he ok?
Potte
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
05 Oct 2007 01:08:24 PM |
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Potte wrote:
On Oct 5, 6:57 am, tadchem <tadc...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Oct 4, 1:51 pm, seunghuicho777 <seunghuicho...@yahoo.com> wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
Compare the physical and chemical properties of CO2 and SiO2.
The oxide *must* be reducible in order to build complex (organic/
silicic) molecules with specific structural properties.
Realistically, sand is not reducible except with extremes of
temperature AND simultaneous electric current that would also destroy
the more complex structures.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
The God of Chem is back. Where have you been? Just finished
a second Ph.D.?
I wonder what happens to the God of Anti-Aetherists (Bilge).
Haven't seen him around. Is he ok?
Potte
Idiot.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
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| User: "Potte" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
06 Oct 2007 03:52:27 AM |
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On Oct 6, 2:08 am, Uncle Al <Uncle...@hate.spam.net> wrote:
Potte wrote:
On Oct 5, 6:57 am, tadchem <tadc...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Oct 4, 1:51 pm, seunghuicho777 <seunghuicho...@yahoo.com> wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
Compare the physical and chemical properties of CO2 and SiO2.
The oxide *must* be reducible in order to build complex (organic/
silicic) molecules with specific structural properties.
Realistically, sand is not reducible except with extremes of
temperature AND simultaneous electric current that would also destroy
the more complex structures.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
The God of Chem is back. Where have you been? Just finished
a second Ph.D.?
I wonder what happens to the God of Anti-Aetherists (Bilge).
Haven't seen him around. Is he ok?
Potte
Idiot.
No. We didn't forget you. We know you are the Eotvos God. :)
It's like this.
Chem God - Tadchem
SR God - Bilge
GR God - Tom Roberts
Eotvos God - Uncle AL
QM God - ??
I mention "God" because physicists just deal with how the model
works mathematically and from measurment in almost a dogmatic
way without caring a bit what is behind the scene. Therefore
physics is like the dogmatic christianity and the believers.
Only physics math is more complex than Christian rituals. They
only know 3 numbers. Trinity. 666, 777, while physicists know
more math and the dogmatic way to interrelate them.
Got it Eotvos God?
Potte
--
Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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| User: "Y.Porat" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
06 Oct 2007 04:25:03 AM |
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On Oct 6, 10:52 am, Potte <photonman...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Oct 6, 2:08 am, Uncle Al <Uncle...@hate.spam.net> wrote:
Potte wrote:
On Oct 5, 6:57 am, tadchem <tadc...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Oct 4, 1:51 pm, seunghuicho777 <seunghuicho...@yahoo.com> wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
Compare the physical and chemical properties of CO2 and SiO2.
The oxide *must* be reducible in order to build complex (organic/
silicic) molecules with specific structural properties.
Realistically, sand is not reducible except with extremes of
temperature AND simultaneous electric current that would also destroy
the more complex structures.
Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA
The God of Chem is back. Where have you been? Just finished
a second Ph.D.?
I wonder what happens to the God of Anti-Aetherists (Bilge).
Haven't seen him around. Is he ok?
Potte
Idiot.
No. We didn't forget you. We know you are the Eotvos God. :)
It's like this.
Chem God - Tadchem
SR God - Bilge
GR God - Tom Roberts
Eotvos God - Uncle AL
QM God - ??
I mention "God" because physicists just deal with how the model
works mathematically and from measurment in almost a dogmatic
way without caring a bit what is behind the scene. Therefore
physics is like the dogmatic christianity and the believers.
Only physics math is more complex than Christian rituals. They
only know 3 numbers. Trinity. 666, 777, while physicists know
more math and the dogmatic way to interrelate them.
Got it Eotvos God?
Potte
--
Uncle Alhttp://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2-Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
-------------
well saied Potte !!
Y.P
------------------------------
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| User: "Potte" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
04 Oct 2007 06:57:06 PM |
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On Oct 5, 1:51 am, seunghuicho777 <seunghuicho...@yahoo.com> wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
Whatever forces or intelligences were responbible for
nucleating the Big Bang core programming that
determines the forces of nature, etc. must have deliberated
that carbon based chemistry is the ultimate nanotech
components to be used in creating creatures and the
complexities that is the universe.
Neighboring M-Brane worlds without carbon based
life may envy us. In fact, some reports indicate that
parallel M-Brane worlds that has other nanotech
components beside carbon.. that is. .androids.. are
entering our universe and kidnapping humans to
integrate our chemistry into theirs by creating
android hybrids of some kind. Don't worry it's just a
rumor by some scientists.
Potte
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| User: "Gordon" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
06 Oct 2007 04:02:11 PM |
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On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:51:58 -0700, seunghuicho777
<seunghuicho777@yahoo.com> wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
Isn't the radiolarian - polycistinia ocean amoeboid based upon a
siliceous skeleton? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiolaria
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| User: "Mark Thorson" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
06 Oct 2007 04:32:26 PM |
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Gordon wrote:
Isn't the radiolarian - polycistinia ocean amoeboid based upon a
siliceous skeleton? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiolaria
That's a long way from having silicon-based metabolism
for respiration, growth, reproduction, etc.
.
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
06 Oct 2007 06:16:34 PM |
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Gordon wrote:
On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 10:51:58 -0700, seunghuicho777
<seunghuicho777@yahoo.com> wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
Isn't the radiolarian - polycistinia ocean amoeboid based upon a
siliceous skeleton? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiolaria
And rice hulls can be directly pyrolyzed to silicon carbide. So?
Metabolism in both cases is SOP. Silicate is solution transported by
syn-sugars. Iron oxide biomineralization forms the radula teeth of
the common limpet (goethite) and the chiton (magnetite). Sea
cucumbers have vandium-based oxygen transfport (rendering their
sacrifice in the wootz pot essential to forming samurai steel). BFD.
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
.
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| User: "Mark Thorson" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
04 Oct 2007 01:01:52 PM |
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seunghuicho777 wrote:
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
No, it makes no sense at all. Silicon analogs
of carbon-based molecules are far less stable.
Silane, for example, ignites on contact with
air, as compared to methane which is stable in
contact with air. You'd never be able to make
silicon analogs of sugar, DNA, protein, etc.
.
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| User: "Marvin" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
04 Oct 2007 03:05:51 PM |
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Mark Thorson wrote:
seunghuicho777 wrote:
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
No, it makes no sense at all. Silicon analogs
of carbon-based molecules are far less stable.
Silane, for example, ignites on contact with
air, as compared to methane which is stable in
contact with air. You'd never be able to make
silicon analogs of sugar, DNA, protein, etc.
Or analogs of anything else with C=C, C=N, C=O double bonds.
Silicon chemistry is much more limited than carbon chemistry.
.
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| User: "dank" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
06 Oct 2007 02:33:47 PM |
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Marvin wrote...
Mark Thorson wrote:
seunghuicho777 wrote:
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
No, it makes no sense at all. Silicon analogs
of carbon-based molecules are far less stable.
Silane, for example, ignites on contact with
air, as compared to methane which is stable in
contact with air. You'd never be able to make
silicon analogs of sugar, DNA, protein, etc.
Or analogs of anything else with C=C, C=N, C=O double bonds. Silicon
chemistry is much more limited than carbon chemistry.
But you are thinking of life in terms of chemistry. I remember one scifi
plot involving alien silicon life that was more electronic than chemical
in nature. The right chemical soup might give rise to semiconducting
materials that form electronic circuits so complex they could be
considered life forms. Maybe the only reason the universe bothered to
create carbon life forms was that they were a necessary step in producing
the technology needed to purify silicon and transform it into the AI chips
that will replace humanity.
.
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| User: "Darwin123" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
25 Oct 2007 12:54:52 AM |
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On Oct 6, 3:33 pm, dank <d...@nugget.org> wrote:
Marvin wrote...
Mark Thorson wrote:
seunghuicho777 wrote:
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
No, it makes no sense at all. Silicon analogs
of carbon-based molecules are far less stable.
Silane, for example, ignites on contact with
air, as compared to methane which is stable in
contact with air. You'd never be able to make
silicon analogs of sugar, DNA, protein, etc.
Or analogs of anything else with C=C, C=N, C=O double bonds. Silicon
chemistry is much more limited than carbon chemistry.
But you are thinking of life in terms of chemistry. I remember one scifi
plot involving alien silicon life that was more electronic than chemical
in nature. The right chemical soup might give rise to semiconducting
materials that form electronic circuits so complex they could be
considered life forms.
But then the valency of silicone doesn't matter. The original poster
specified the valency of silicone to restrict answers to chemical
analogs, not information analogs.
By your criteria, the question could have been better asked, "Do
you suppose there is life based on gallium arsenide?"
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| User: "sid" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
25 Oct 2007 10:32:52 AM |
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And the relevance to Zimbabwe is...? Look at where you're posting to and stop
crossposting to soc.culture.zimbabwe.
In article <1193291692.741929.120580@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
drosen0000@yahoo.com says...
On Oct 6, 3:33 pm, dank <d...@nugget.org> wrote:
Marvin wrote...
Mark Thorson wrote:
seunghuicho777 wrote:
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
No, it makes no sense at all. Silicon analogs
of carbon-based molecules are far less stable.
Silane, for example, ignites on contact with
air, as compared to methane which is stable in
contact with air. You'd never be able to make
silicon analogs of sugar, DNA, protein, etc.
Or analogs of anything else with C=C, C=N, C=O double bonds. Silicon
chemistry is much more limited than carbon chemistry.
But you are thinking of life in terms of chemistry. I remember one scifi
plot involving alien silicon life that was more electronic than chemical
in nature. The right chemical soup might give rise to semiconducting
materials that form electronic circuits so complex they could be
considered life forms.
But then the valency of silicone doesn't matter. The original poster
specified the valency of silicone to restrict answers to chemical
analogs, not information analogs.
By your criteria, the question could have been better asked, "Do
you suppose there is life based on gallium arsenide?"
.
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| User: "Herman Family" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
25 Oct 2007 10:55:04 PM |
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"sid" <sidhere@home.com> wrote in message
news:13i1dp4i2touq98@corp.supernews.com...
And the relevance to Zimbabwe is...? Look at where you're posting to and
stop
crossposting to soc.culture.zimbabwe.
In article <1193291692.741929.120580@e9g2000prf.googlegroups.com>,
drosen0000@yahoo.com says...
On Oct 6, 3:33 pm, dank <d...@nugget.org> wrote:
Marvin wrote...
Mark Thorson wrote:
seunghuicho777 wrote:
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon,
does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre
of
galaxies?
No, it makes no sense at all. Silicon analogs
of carbon-based molecules are far less stable.
Silane, for example, ignites on contact with
air, as compared to methane which is stable in
contact with air. You'd never be able to make
silicon analogs of sugar, DNA, protein, etc.
Or analogs of anything else with C=C, C=N, C=O double bonds. Silicon
chemistry is much more limited than carbon chemistry.
But you are thinking of life in terms of chemistry. I remember one
scifi
plot involving alien silicon life that was more electronic than chemical
in nature. The right chemical soup might give rise to semiconducting
materials that form electronic circuits so complex they could be
considered life forms.
But then the valency of silicone doesn't matter. The original poster
specified the valency of silicone to restrict answers to chemical
analogs, not information analogs.
By your criteria, the question could have been better asked, "Do
you suppose there is life based on gallium arsenide?"
If there was, would it be doped up?
Michael
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| User: "Marvin" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
07 Oct 2007 10:40:25 AM |
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dank wrote:
<snip>
But you are thinking of life in terms of chemistry. I remember one scifi
plot involving alien silicon life that was more electronic than chemical
in nature. The right chemical soup might give rise to semiconducting
materials that form electronic circuits so complex they could be
considered life forms. Maybe the only reason the universe bothered to
create carbon life forms was that they were a necessary step in producing
the technology needed to purify silicon and transform it into the AI chips
that will replace humanity.
Science Fiction is fun. I've been reading it since I got
into the pulp mags in the '40s and'50s. But SciFi ain't
science.
.
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| User: "Evgenij Barsukov" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
08 Oct 2007 09:40:56 AM |
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Marvin wrote:
dank wrote:
<snip>
But you are thinking of life in terms of chemistry. I remember one scifi
plot involving alien silicon life that was more electronic than chemical
in nature. The right chemical soup might give rise to semiconducting
materials that form electronic circuits so complex they could be
considered life forms. Maybe the only reason the universe bothered to
create carbon life forms was that they were a necessary step in producing
the technology needed to purify silicon and transform it into the AI
chips
that will replace humanity.
Science Fiction is fun. I've been reading it since I got into the pulp
mags in the '40s and'50s. But SciFi ain't science.
Scientific definition of Life does not state that it has to be
driven by the same chemistry as earth life. It needs a metabolism
(basically a spontaneous entropy increase process that takes to slow by
itself but is accelerated by Life's catalysis) but the type of
this process is completely open. It does not even have to be chemical.
It can be nuclear. It can be electromagnetic - in the world where
there are electromagnetic structures which entropy increase can be
accelerated.
Regards,
Evgenij
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| User: "Darwin123" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
25 Oct 2007 12:51:43 AM |
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On Oct 4, 2:01 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
seunghuicho777 wrote:
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
No, it makes no sense at all. Silicon analogs
of carbon-based molecules are far less stable.
Silane, for example, ignites on contact with
air, as compared to methane which is stable in
contact with air. You'd never be able to make
silicon analogs of sugar, DNA, protein, etc.
At least not in an atmosphere like ours. Most life (bacterial)
on our planet is anaerobic, and is actually poisoned by the presence
of O2. How would silane do in a carbon dioxide, or a methane,
atmosphere?
The covalent bonds of silicon may be stronger than those of
carbon. So maybe silicon life can exist at higher temperatures or in
the presence of hard UV.
BTW: Most sponges are held together by a matrix mostly made of
silicone dioxide. So technically, these sponges are partly based on
silicone. Maybe there are life forms out there that are carbon-based
but use silicone even more.
.
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| User: "David Bostwick" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
25 Oct 2007 10:26:21 AM |
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In article <1193291503.421061.303920@q3g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, Darwin123 <drosen0000@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Oct 4, 2:01 pm, Mark Thorson <nos...@sonic.net> wrote:
seunghuicho777 wrote:
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
No, it makes no sense at all. Silicon analogs
of carbon-based molecules are far less stable.
Silane, for example, ignites on contact with
air, as compared to methane which is stable in
contact with air. You'd never be able to make
silicon analogs of sugar, DNA, protein, etc.
At least not in an atmosphere like ours. Most life (bacterial)
on our planet is anaerobic, and is actually poisoned by the presence
of O2. How would silane do in a carbon dioxide, or a methane,
atmosphere?
The covalent bonds of silicon may be stronger than those of
carbon. So maybe silicon life can exist at higher temperatures or in
the presence of hard UV.
BTW: Most sponges are held together by a matrix mostly made of
silicone dioxide. So technically, these sponges are partly based on
silicone. Maybe there are life forms out there that are carbon-based
but use silicone even more.
Silicon and silicone ain't the same. Sand and computer chips are based
largely on silicon. Plastic surgeons' estates are based largely on silicone.
.
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| User: "G=EMC^2 Glazier" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
25 Oct 2007 10:32:57 AM |
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When A computer chip passes the Turing test it should be considered a
life form. Bert
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| User: "Uncle Al" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
04 Oct 2007 04:26:28 PM |
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seunghuicho777 wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
No. There is no silicon or siloxane chemistry even remotely
corresponding to carbon biochemistry or its needed complexity. There
is no achievable solvent system for what does/could exist in silicon.
Given a planetary fluid whose solid state is denser than its liquid
state - and freezing conditions anywhere in its natural volume - you
are screwed.
Google Images
"Stanley Miller" 1770 hits
Put in anything you like under any conditions that interest you. Run
that puppy! All you get is terrestrial biochemistry to nothing
interesting. Lots of elements have tetrahedral coordination. So?
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/driest.htm
("Schund" is German. Translate it.)
--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
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| User: "Evgenij Barsukov" |
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| Title: Re: silicon lifeforms |
04 Oct 2007 03:51:11 PM |
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seunghuicho777 wrote:
hi,
considering that silicon has a valency of +/- 4 just like carbon, does
it not stand to reason that silicon based life might exist somewhere
in the universe? perhaps at higher temperatures, nearer the centre of
galaxies?
Of cause. The concept of Life is not limited by a particular
DNA/proteine based implementation. It needs to meet only these
requirements of being a "symbiotic catalyst":
- it is thermodynamically unstable in its environment (dG of
decomposition is negative)
- it catalyzes entropy increase of a particular process (no matter what
process, not even necessarily a chemical one)
- it uses part of the released energy to apply work to counteract
own decomposition, those stabilizing itself.
Particular implementation of such scheme does require a redundant
information storage and transport (exemplified as DNA and RNA) but we
already know such a plethora of different ways to store and
transport information that it would be laughable in 21th century
to believe that it can only be done with C.
Hell, even our Life-form (humanity) presently stores more information
(in TBytes) by other means (neural system, paper, magnetic, silicone
flash memory etc) than using DNA. And this shift towards other means is
only accelerating.
As for other parts needed to make micro-machines able to be a catalyst
and to take released energy and use it to repair/replicate itself,
it is almost too boring to explain that carbon is not the only
material such micro-machines can be made out of.
Regards
Evgenij
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