| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Terry Dennis" |
| Date: |
28 Feb 2006 08:38:12 PM |
| Object: |
Simple Balloon Racer Question |
Hello. After reading some of the posts here, I hope I am not to far from
the right newsgroup, my apologies if I am.
I have been asked to fill in as a volunteer advisor for my eight grade
daughters science class. They are making balloon car racers. Simple stuff,
demoing Newton's laws of motion, talking abotu friction, etc.. They are
designing balloon car racers for distance and speed. After briefly looking
through the literature (in preparation for a meeting with the group tomorrow
no less!), I found that they have the option of using three wheels or four.
I am wondering if someone might be able to chime in with some pro's and cons
of using three wheels versus four in designing this racer.
Thanks (in advance) for any help, and my apologies if I am in the wrong
newsgroup!
Terry
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
01 Mar 2006 10:46:21 AM |
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Dear Terry,
I suggest you also have fun with the nozzle that the air will
come out of. (thrust differences)
Make three cars all the same except..
Make one model that just has the single hole for thrust.
Make another model with a smaller hole for thrust
and
Make a third model and allow it to have multiple holes
for thrust. (like a cap over the larger hole model but with 4
or 5 smaller holes in it.)
This should make it even more fun for you.
:)
so..
Have fun!
--
James M Driscoll Jr
Spaceman
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
28 Feb 2006 09:12:43 PM |
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Terry Dennis wrote:
Hello. After reading some of the posts here, I hope I am not to far from
the right newsgroup, my apologies if I am.
I have been asked to fill in as a volunteer advisor for my eight grade
daughters science class. They are making balloon car racers. Simple stuff,
demoing Newton's laws of motion, talking abotu friction, etc.. They are
designing balloon car racers for distance and speed. After briefly looking
through the literature (in preparation for a meeting with the group tomorrow
no less!), I found that they have the option of using three wheels or four.
I am wondering if someone might be able to chime in with some pro's and cons
of using three wheels versus four in designing this racer.
Thanks (in advance) for any help, and my apologies if I am in the wrong
newsgroup!
Terry
Put one (or more if your lungs are strong enough) ballon inside the
other, before inflating.
Wheels won't even touch the ground compared to the single ballon models
:-)
Jim G
c'=c+v
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| User: "Sam Wormley" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
28 Feb 2006 09:25:51 PM |
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Terry Dennis wrote:
Hello. After reading some of the posts here, I hope I am not to far from
the right newsgroup, my apologies if I am.
I have been asked to fill in as a volunteer advisor for my eight grade
daughters science class. They are making balloon car racers. Simple stuff,
demoing Newton's laws of motion, talking abotu friction, etc.. They are
designing balloon car racers for distance and speed. After briefly looking
through the literature (in preparation for a meeting with the group tomorrow
no less!), I found that they have the option of using three wheels or four.
I am wondering if someone might be able to chime in with some pro's and cons
of using three wheels versus four in designing this racer.
Thanks (in advance) for any help, and my apologies if I am in the wrong
newsgroup!
Terry
Goals
o minimize rolling friction
o minimize air resistance
o maximize thrust
o knowledge of static versus rolling friction
o duration of thrust
I'd go with four wheels - simple shaft and bearing design
There are a lot of variables not disclosed... mass, size, material restrictions.
Is it legal to skip the wheels and launch the balloon with a tail stabilizer?
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| User: "Terry Dennis" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
28 Feb 2006 09:45:50 PM |
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"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:3v8Nf.802407$_o.259258@attbi_s71...
Terry Dennis wrote:
Hello. After reading some of the posts here, I hope I am not to far from
the right newsgroup, my apologies if I am.
I have been asked to fill in as a volunteer advisor for my eight grade
daughters science class. They are making balloon car racers. Simple
stuff, demoing Newton's laws of motion, talking abotu friction, etc..
They are designing balloon car racers for distance and speed. After
briefly looking through the literature (in preparation for a meeting with
the group tomorrow no less!), I found that they have the option of using
three wheels or four.
I am wondering if someone might be able to chime in with some pro's and
cons of using three wheels versus four in designing this racer.
Thanks (in advance) for any help, and my apologies if I am in the wrong
newsgroup!
Terry
Goals
o minimize rolling friction
o minimize air resistance
o maximize thrust
o knowledge of static versus rolling friction
o duration of thrust
I'd go with four wheels - simple shaft and bearing design
There are a lot of variables not disclosed... mass, size, material
restrictions.
Is it legal to skip the wheels and launch the balloon with a tail
stabilizer?
The mass and size are really up to us. No material restrictions, except the
teacher threw in the curve that the wheels cannot be regular wheels, they
must be something that can act as a wheel (i.e. I am looking at potentially
using CD's or DVD's). Interesting point about launching the balloon, I will
have to ask. I don't see anything in the rules against it.
Terry
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| User: "Terry Dennis" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
28 Feb 2006 09:49:08 PM |
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"Terry Dennis" <terrydennis@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:ON8Nf.5520$iR1.3277@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
"Sam Wormley" <swormley1@mchsi.com> wrote in message
news:3v8Nf.802407$_o.259258@attbi_s71...
Terry Dennis wrote:
Hello. After reading some of the posts here, I hope I am not to far
from the right newsgroup, my apologies if I am.
I have been asked to fill in as a volunteer advisor for my eight grade
daughters science class. They are making balloon car racers. Simple
stuff, demoing Newton's laws of motion, talking abotu friction, etc..
They are designing balloon car racers for distance and speed. After
briefly looking through the literature (in preparation for a meeting
with the group tomorrow no less!), I found that they have the option of
using three wheels or four.
I am wondering if someone might be able to chime in with some pro's and
cons of using three wheels versus four in designing this racer.
Thanks (in advance) for any help, and my apologies if I am in the wrong
newsgroup!
Terry
Goals
o minimize rolling friction
o minimize air resistance
o maximize thrust
o knowledge of static versus rolling friction
o duration of thrust
I'd go with four wheels - simple shaft and bearing design
There are a lot of variables not disclosed... mass, size, material
restrictions.
Is it legal to skip the wheels and launch the balloon with a tail
stabilizer?
The mass and size are really up to us. No material restrictions, except
the teacher threw in the curve that the wheels cannot be regular wheels,
they must be something that can act as a wheel (i.e. I am looking at
potentially using CD's or DVD's). Interesting point about launching the
balloon, I will have to ask. I don't see anything in the rules against
it.
Terry
I just read the rules again, they specifically state that the car needs to
have a minimum of three wheels. Nice idea though, I may try that out just
to see how far it goes!
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
01 Mar 2006 07:00:42 AM |
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"Terry Dennis" <terrydennis@wi.rr.com> wrote in message
news:UQ8Nf.5521$iR1.2390@tornado.rdc-kc.rr.com...
I just read the rules again, they specifically state that the car needs to
have a minimum of three wheels. Nice idea though, I may try that out just
to see how far it goes!
Does it say that the wheels have to actually function? ;-)
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| User: "Tony" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
28 Feb 2006 09:03:54 PM |
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Terry, I'm getting too old for this. My kid used to race little wooden
cars down an inclined plane. What the h^&% is a balloon car racer?
.
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| User: "Terry Dennis" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
28 Feb 2006 09:09:57 PM |
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Sorry Tony. The students are given one 9 inch ballon, and told that they
can design whatever kind of car they want that uses the inflated balloon to
power the vehicle. The minimum that the car can travel to pass is 5 meters.
Its kind of a take off on the Pinewood Derby, or a mousetrap car. I'm with
you, this is a new one for me. Does this help?
Terry
"Tony" <ajw27703@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141182234.443108.49690@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Terry, I'm getting too old for this. My kid used to race little wooden
cars down an inclined plane. What the h^&% is a balloon car racer?
.
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| User: "SCW" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
01 Mar 2006 03:27:14 AM |
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Terry Dennis wrote:
Sorry Tony. The students are given one 9 inch ballon, and told that they
can design whatever kind of car they want that uses the inflated balloon to
power the vehicle. The minimum that the car can travel to pass is 5 meters.
Its kind of a take off on the Pinewood Derby, or a mousetrap car. I'm with
you, this is a new one for me. Does this help?
Terry
"Tony" <ajw27703@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141182234.443108.49690@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Terry, I'm getting too old for this. My kid used to race little wooden
cars down an inclined plane. What the h^&% is a balloon car racer?
If you're trying to demonstrate Newton's Laws of motion, then why not
start there?
From the First Law:
[Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that
state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.]
Since you're likely to get the same amount of axle friction from using
four wheels as for three (assuming you are using two axles in either
case). I'd go for four wheels, since this is more stable. We are also
trying to maximise friction between the surface and the wheel, so using
four will give a better grip (assuming all the wheels are identical).
There will be air-resistance (depending on how fast these things go!),
so make it bullet shaped - preferably half bullet shaped, like one half
of an almond shell.
From the Second Law:
[F=ma where F = Force, m= mass and a = acceleration]
Since the Force comes from similar 9-inch balloons, it is more or less
constant. So to maximise a (acceleration), m needs to be as small as
possible.
So make your racer as light as possible.
From the Third Law:
[For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction or mV = Mv]
The racers initial speed will come from the air, with a small mass,
coming out of the balloon at high velocity. This will transfer energy
to the racer, with large mass (relative to the air) in the form of
kinetic energy in the opposite direction in a small velocity.
So just getting your racer to move proves this works.
If none of the above works, try super-gluing your competitor wheels
together.
SCW
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| User: "Terry Dennis" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
01 Mar 2006 06:14:46 AM |
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"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141205234.485369.42260@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Terry Dennis wrote:
Sorry Tony. The students are given one 9 inch ballon, and told that they
can design whatever kind of car they want that uses the inflated balloon
to
power the vehicle. The minimum that the car can travel to pass is 5
meters.
Its kind of a take off on the Pinewood Derby, or a mousetrap car. I'm
with
you, this is a new one for me. Does this help?
Terry
"Tony" <ajw27703@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141182234.443108.49690@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Terry, I'm getting too old for this. My kid used to race little wooden
cars down an inclined plane. What the h^&% is a balloon car racer?
If you're trying to demonstrate Newton's Laws of motion, then why not
start there?
From the First Law:
[Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that
state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.]
Since you're likely to get the same amount of axle friction from using
four wheels as for three (assuming you are using two axles in either
case). I'd go for four wheels, since this is more stable. We are also
trying to maximise friction between the surface and the wheel, so using
four will give a better grip (assuming all the wheels are identical).
There will be air-resistance (depending on how fast these things go!),
so make it bullet shaped - preferably half bullet shaped, like one half
of an almond shell.
From the Second Law:
[F=ma where F = Force, m= mass and a = acceleration]
Since the Force comes from similar 9-inch balloons, it is more or less
constant. So to maximise a (acceleration), m needs to be as small as
possible.
So make your racer as light as possible.
From the Third Law:
[For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction or mV = Mv]
The racers initial speed will come from the air, with a small mass,
coming out of the balloon at high velocity. This will transfer energy
to the racer, with large mass (relative to the air) in the form of
kinetic energy in the opposite direction in a small velocity.
So just getting your racer to move proves this works.
If none of the above works, try super-gluing your competitor wheels
together.
SCW
I love your last solution, no doubt if push comes to shove, I may try that.
Have to agree with your analysis....after doing some thinking about it and
researching it a bit last night, since all this will have to do is travel a
straight line, this seems to be the way to go!
Thanks all for all your help! The race is Monday, I will post and let
everyone know how the kids did!
Terry
.
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| User: "SCW" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
01 Mar 2006 06:16:35 AM |
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Terry Dennis wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141205234.485369.42260@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Terry Dennis wrote:
Sorry Tony. The students are given one 9 inch ballon, and told that they
can design whatever kind of car they want that uses the inflated balloon
to
power the vehicle. The minimum that the car can travel to pass is 5
meters.
Its kind of a take off on the Pinewood Derby, or a mousetrap car. I'm
with
you, this is a new one for me. Does this help?
Terry
"Tony" <ajw27703@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141182234.443108.49690@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Terry, I'm getting too old for this. My kid used to race little wooden
cars down an inclined plane. What the h^&% is a balloon car racer?
If you're trying to demonstrate Newton's Laws of motion, then why not
start there?
From the First Law:
[Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that
state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.]
Since you're likely to get the same amount of axle friction from using
four wheels as for three (assuming you are using two axles in either
case). I'd go for four wheels, since this is more stable. We are also
trying to maximise friction between the surface and the wheel, so using
four will give a better grip (assuming all the wheels are identical).
There will be air-resistance (depending on how fast these things go!),
so make it bullet shaped - preferably half bullet shaped, like one half
of an almond shell.
From the Second Law:
[F=ma where F = Force, m= mass and a = acceleration]
Since the Force comes from similar 9-inch balloons, it is more or less
constant. So to maximise a (acceleration), m needs to be as small as
possible.
So make your racer as light as possible.
From the Third Law:
[For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction or mV = Mv]
The racers initial speed will come from the air, with a small mass,
coming out of the balloon at high velocity. This will transfer energy
to the racer, with large mass (relative to the air) in the form of
kinetic energy in the opposite direction in a small velocity.
So just getting your racer to move proves this works.
If none of the above works, try super-gluing your competitor wheels
together.
SCW
I love your last solution, no doubt if push comes to shove, I may try that.
Have to agree with your analysis....after doing some thinking about it and
researching it a bit last night, since all this will have to do is travel a
straight line, this seems to be the way to go!
Thanks all for all your help! The race is Monday, I will post and let
everyone know how the kids did!
Terry
Best of luck!
SCW
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
01 Mar 2006 09:49:02 PM |
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Terry Dennis wrote:
"SCW" <doune60@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1141205234.485369.42260@i39g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Terry Dennis wrote:
Sorry Tony. The students are given one 9 inch ballon, and told that they
can design whatever kind of car they want that uses the inflated balloon
to
power the vehicle. The minimum that the car can travel to pass is 5
meters.
Its kind of a take off on the Pinewood Derby, or a mousetrap car. I'm
with
you, this is a new one for me. Does this help?
Terry
"Tony" <ajw27703@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1141182234.443108.49690@j33g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Terry, I'm getting too old for this. My kid used to race little wooden
cars down an inclined plane. What the h^&% is a balloon car racer?
If you're trying to demonstrate Newton's Laws of motion, then why not
start there?
From the First Law:
[Every object in a state of uniform motion tends to remain in that
state of motion unless an external force is applied to it.]
Since you're likely to get the same amount of axle friction from using
four wheels as for three (assuming you are using two axles in either
case). I'd go for four wheels, since this is more stable. We are also
trying to maximise friction between the surface and the wheel, so using
four will give a better grip (assuming all the wheels are identical).
There will be air-resistance (depending on how fast these things go!),
so make it bullet shaped - preferably half bullet shaped, like one half
of an almond shell.
From the Second Law:
[F=ma where F = Force, m= mass and a = acceleration]
Since the Force comes from similar 9-inch balloons, it is more or less
constant. So to maximise a (acceleration), m needs to be as small as
possible.
So make your racer as light as possible.
From the Third Law:
[For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction or mV = Mv]
The racers initial speed will come from the air, with a small mass,
coming out of the balloon at high velocity. This will transfer energy
to the racer, with large mass (relative to the air) in the form of
kinetic energy in the opposite direction in a small velocity.
So just getting your racer to move proves this works.
If none of the above works, try super-gluing your competitor wheels
together.
SCW
I love your last solution, no doubt if push comes to shove, I may try that.
Have to agree with your analysis....after doing some thinking about it and
researching it a bit last night, since all this will have to do is travel a
straight line, this seems to be the way to go!
Thanks all for all your help! The race is Monday, I will post and let
everyone know how the kids did!
Terry
Since limited to one ballon, contain it in a rigid housing--- maximum
pressure!
Jim G
c'=c+v
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| User: "Tony" |
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| Title: Re: Simple Balloon Racer Question |
28 Feb 2006 09:03:56 PM |
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Terry, I'm getting too old for this. My kid used to race little wooden
cars down an inclined plane. What the h^&% is a balloon car racer?
.
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