| Topic: |
Science > Physics |
| User: |
"Spaceman" |
| Date: |
20 Feb 2006 01:04:48 PM |
| Object: |
Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
Can a laser beam "push" a proton (or anything for that matter)
without physically destroying it or changing it's state of matter?
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| User: "Timo Nieminen" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 01:36:09 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Spaceman wrote:
Can a laser beam "push" a proton (or anything for that matter)
without physically destroying it or changing it's state of matter?
You can push, pull, and spin micron-sized objects around without
physically destroying them. You can trap and spin molecules. You can push
and pull and trap atoms. You can push electrons around. I haven't heard of
anybody it with protons, but it might have been done.
--
Timo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
E-prints: http://eprint.uq.edu.au/view/person/Nieminen,_Timo_A..html
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 01:40:37 PM |
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"Timo Nieminen" <uqtniemi@mailbox.uq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:20060221053251.A60012@emu.uq.edu.au...
You can push, pull, and spin micron-sized objects around without
physically destroying them. You can trap and spin molecules. You can push
and pull and trap atoms. You can push electrons around. I haven't heard of
anybody it with protons, but it might have been done.
Ok,
One more simple question,
Would a magnetic field disturb a laser?
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| User: "Timo Nieminen" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 02:09:53 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Spaceman wrote:
"Timo Nieminen" <uqtniemi@mailbox.uq.edu.au> wrote:
You can push, pull, and spin micron-sized objects around without
physically destroying them. You can trap and spin molecules. You can push
and pull and trap atoms. You can push electrons around. I haven't heard of
anybody it with protons, but it might have been done.
Ok,
One more simple question,
Would a magnetic field disturb a laser?
If you mean disturb a laser beam, no. Disturb a laser, perhaps - lasers
can have some delicate and easily disturbed electronics.
--
Timo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
E-prints: http://eprint.uq.edu.au/view/person/Nieminen,_Timo_A..html
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 02:41:44 PM |
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"Timo Nieminen" <uqtniemi@mailbox.uq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:20060221055432.S60012@emu.uq.edu.au...
If you mean disturb a laser beam, no. Disturb a laser, perhaps - lasers
can have some delicate and easily disturbed electronics.
Ok,
hold on to your hats for this one then,
Take the laser and place it in the center of a gedanken
circle that has a circumference of 186,000 miles.
On the circumference set up a magnetic field
that can keep the proton going around in a circle.
and allow a space for the laser to shine into the magnetic
field all the way around,
start pushing the photon around the track.
what happens when the laser turns faster than 1 rev per second
if you made sure the proton is being pushed at all times.
:)
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| User: "OG" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 06:47:00 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:Y7KdnViIbvsctGfenZ2dnUVZ_tudnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Timo Nieminen" <uqtniemi@mailbox.uq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:20060221055432.S60012@emu.uq.edu.au...
If you mean disturb a laser beam, no. Disturb a laser, perhaps - lasers
can have some delicate and easily disturbed electronics.
Ok,
hold on to your hats for this one then,
Take the laser and place it in the center of a gedanken
circle that has a circumference of 186,000 miles.
On the circumference set up a magnetic field
that can keep the proton going around in a circle.
and allow a space for the laser to shine into the magnetic
field all the way around,
start pushing the photon around the track.
what happens when the laser turns faster than 1 rev per second
if you made sure the proton is being pushed at all times.
:)
I think at some point (futher down one leg of this thread) you indicate that
you only increase the rotation rate of the laser as the proton increases
it's angular speed.
Why then do you assume that the angular speed of the laser ever reaches 1
rev per sec ?
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 08:07:56 PM |
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"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:45v683F8jqniU1@individual.net...
I think at some point (futher down one leg of this thread) you indicate
that you only increase the rotation rate of the laser as the proton
increases it's angular speed.
Yup
Why then do you assume that the angular speed of the laser ever reaches 1
rev per sec ?
Why would you assume it would not?
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| User: "OG" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 01:19:20 PM |
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Spaceman wrote:
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:45v683F8jqniU1@individual.net...
I think at some point (futher down one leg of this thread) you indicate
that you only increase the rotation rate of the laser as the proton
increases it's angular speed.
Yup
Why then do you assume that the angular speed of the laser ever reaches 1
rev per sec ?
Why would you assume it would not?
You answer my question first. Demonstrate that a laser beam can act to
push a proton at 90 degrees to the direction of the laser.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 01:25:51 PM |
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"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4617dnF8t1hdU1@individual.net...
Spaceman wrote:
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:45v683F8jqniU1@individual.net...
I think at some point (futher down one leg of this thread) you indicate
that you only increase the rotation rate of the laser as the proton
increases it's angular speed.
Yup
Why then do you assume that the angular speed of the laser ever reaches
1 rev per sec ?
Why would you assume it would not?
You answer my question first. Demonstrate that a laser beam can act to
push a proton at 90 degrees to the direction of the laser.
Are you ignoring the magnetic barrier?
If you hit something next to a barrier and you hit the side of it,
it will follow the barrier or do you think it will not?
You truly do not ever actually read entire statements huh?
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 01:40:06 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:4fidnZ7Rxpuo9GbenZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4617dnF8t1hdU1@individual.net...
Spaceman wrote:
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:45v683F8jqniU1@individual.net...
I think at some point (futher down one leg of this thread) you indicate
that you only increase the rotation rate of the laser as the proton
increases it's angular speed.
Yup
Why then do you assume that the angular speed of the laser ever reaches
1 rev per sec ?
Why would you assume it would not?
You answer my question first. Demonstrate that a laser beam can act to
push a proton at 90 degrees to the direction of the laser.
Are you ignoring the magnetic barrier?
If you hit something next to a barrier and you hit the side of it,
it will follow the barrier or do you think it will not?
You truly do not ever actually read entire statements huh?
The electric and magnetic fields of a light ray
are at 90 degrees to the direction of travel
(Light is a transverse wave). So a proton moving
at 90 degrees to the ray will be aligned with the
fields, hence no acceleration in the direction of
motion of the proton.
An alternative way to look at it is that the
momentum of the photons is directed at 90 degrees
to the direction of the proton, so by conservation
of momentum, there being no component of the
momentum aligned with the direction of travel of
the proton, no acceleration in that direction is
possible.
Now, if you put the proton in a strong magnetic field
perpendicular to the direction of travel, the proton
will want to follow a circular path. If you then
aim your photons at an angle to the trajectory, a
component of the photon momenentum will be in the
direction of the proton's direction of travel, and
acceleration is possible. But then, this is just
the typical synchrotron set-up using visible light
rather than radio frequencies.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 02:48:28 PM |
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"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:70KKf.11292$%14.315730@news20.bellglobal.com...
The electric and magnetic fields of a light ray
are at 90 degrees to the direction of travel
(Light is a transverse wave). So a proton moving
at 90 degrees to the ray will be aligned with the
fields, hence no acceleration in the direction of
motion of the proton.
What?
You are losing it greg.
a transverse wave would move the proton to the side
more than it would move it up or down.
Or do you think a wave does not move stuff when it is 90 degrees
to the object?
Funny, waves that hit boats are at 90 degrees
and they move them up and down!
Why would a wave that moves side to side not be able to move
something to the side?
sheesh!
You truly are completely lost as usual.
LOL
LOL
An alternative way to look at it is that the
momentum of the photons is directed at 90 degrees
to the direction of the proton, so by conservation
of momentum, there being no component of the
momentum aligned with the direction of travel of
the proton, no acceleration in that direction is
possible.
So you must be saying the proton is square.
LOL
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 02:58:24 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:EeCdncXdJokO4WbenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:70KKf.11292$%14.315730@news20.bellglobal.com...
The electric and magnetic fields of a light ray
are at 90 degrees to the direction of travel
(Light is a transverse wave). So a proton moving
at 90 degrees to the ray will be aligned with the
fields, hence no acceleration in the direction of
motion of the proton.
What?
You are losing it greg.
a transverse wave would move the proton to the side
more than it would move it up or down.
No. Use the "right hand rule" for cross products
to predict the direction of the force on a charge
moving in a magnetic field.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magfor.html
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 03:36:33 PM |
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"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:x9LKf.11362$%14.319707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:EeCdncXdJokO4WbenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:70KKf.11292$%14.315730@news20.bellglobal.com...
The electric and magnetic fields of a light ray
are at 90 degrees to the direction of travel
(Light is a transverse wave). So a proton moving
at 90 degrees to the ray will be aligned with the
fields, hence no acceleration in the direction of
motion of the proton.
What?
You are losing it greg.
a transverse wave would move the proton to the side
more than it would move it up or down.
No. Use the "right hand rule" for cross products
to predict the direction of the force on a charge
moving in a magnetic field.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magfor.html
sorry,
you have posted a magnetic field rule
The link is null for my statement.
I am not using the magnetic field to move the proton,
I am using it to keep the proton on track only.
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 03:45:39 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:OJKdnRO87etFGmbenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:x9LKf.11362$%14.319707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:EeCdncXdJokO4WbenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:70KKf.11292$%14.315730@news20.bellglobal.com...
The electric and magnetic fields of a light ray
are at 90 degrees to the direction of travel
(Light is a transverse wave). So a proton moving
at 90 degrees to the ray will be aligned with the
fields, hence no acceleration in the direction of
motion of the proton.
What?
You are losing it greg.
a transverse wave would move the proton to the side
more than it would move it up or down.
No. Use the "right hand rule" for cross products
to predict the direction of the force on a charge
moving in a magnetic field.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magfor.html
sorry,
you have posted a magnetic field rule
The link is null for my statement.
I am not using the magnetic field to move the proton,
I am using it to keep the proton on track only.
Then what property of the laser light do you imagine is
doing the pushing? Light is an electromagnetic wave.
.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 04:03:44 PM |
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"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:RRLKf.11398$%14.322556@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:OJKdnRO87etFGmbenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:x9LKf.11362$%14.319707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:EeCdncXdJokO4WbenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:70KKf.11292$%14.315730@news20.bellglobal.com...
The electric and magnetic fields of a light ray
are at 90 degrees to the direction of travel
(Light is a transverse wave). So a proton moving
at 90 degrees to the ray will be aligned with the
fields, hence no acceleration in the direction of
motion of the proton.
What?
You are losing it greg.
a transverse wave would move the proton to the side
more than it would move it up or down.
No. Use the "right hand rule" for cross products
to predict the direction of the force on a charge
moving in a magnetic field.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magfor.html
sorry,
you have posted a magnetic field rule
The link is null for my statement.
I am not using the magnetic field to move the proton,
I am using it to keep the proton on track only.
Then what property of the laser light do you imagine is
doing the pushing? Light is an electromagnetic wave.
The combination of both actually.
.
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| User: "Greg Neill" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 04:34:56 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:Z9ednfHFrq6qE2benZ2dnUVZ_tidnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:RRLKf.11398$%14.322556@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:OJKdnRO87etFGmbenZ2dnUVZ_tKdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:x9LKf.11362$%14.319707@news20.bellglobal.com...
"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:EeCdncXdJokO4WbenZ2dnUVZ_tGdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"Greg Neill" <gneillREM@OVE.THIS.netcom.ca> wrote in message
news:70KKf.11292$%14.315730@news20.bellglobal.com...
The electric and magnetic fields of a light ray
are at 90 degrees to the direction of travel
(Light is a transverse wave). So a proton moving
at 90 degrees to the ray will be aligned with the
fields, hence no acceleration in the direction of
motion of the proton.
What?
You are losing it greg.
a transverse wave would move the proton to the side
more than it would move it up or down.
No. Use the "right hand rule" for cross products
to predict the direction of the force on a charge
moving in a magnetic field.
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/magnetic/magfor.html
sorry,
you have posted a magnetic field rule
The link is null for my statement.
I am not using the magnetic field to move the proton,
I am using it to keep the proton on track only.
Then what property of the laser light do you imagine is
doing the pushing? Light is an electromagnetic wave.
The combination of both actually.
Then the link is doubly valid because it will apply to the
proton's motion in the static magnetic field (a circular
arc) and it will apply to any deflection caused by the
field of the light wave.
.
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| User: "OG" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 04:20:56 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:4fidnZ7Rxpuo9GbenZ2dnUVZ_tmdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:4617dnF8t1hdU1@individual.net...
Spaceman wrote:
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:45v683F8jqniU1@individual.net...
I think at some point (futher down one leg of this thread) you indicate
that you only increase the rotation rate of the laser as the proton
increases it's angular speed.
Yup
Why then do you assume that the angular speed of the laser ever reaches
1 rev per sec ?
Why would you assume it would not?
You answer my question first. Demonstrate that a laser beam can act to
push a proton at 90 degrees to the direction of the laser.
Are you ignoring the magnetic barrier?
If you hit something next to a barrier and you hit the side of it,
it will follow the barrier or do you think it will not?
You truly do not ever actually read entire statements huh?
We are talking about lasers and protons here, not tin cans - show us how the
proton is accelerated.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 04:37:12 PM |
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"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:461i29F8sh34U1@individual.net...
We are talking about lasers and protons here, not tin cans - show us how
the proton is accelerated.
Laser hit little proton thingy more on one side
than the other,
little proton thingy thinks about newton and moves
to side,
little proton thingy must move out of way.
laser moves to move it again but now a bitty faster.
and so on.
Ughh
Is that what you need? Caveman talk?
LOL
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| User: "OG" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 05:28:36 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:V-adnYDzyKKSC2beRVn-iw@comcast.com...
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:461i29F8sh34U1@individual.net...
We are talking about lasers and protons here, not tin cans - show us how
the proton is accelerated.
Laser hit little proton thingy more on one side
than the other,
little proton thingy thinks about newton and moves
to side,
little proton thingy must move out of way.
laser moves to move it again but now a bitty faster.
and so on.
Ughh
Is that what you need? Caveman talk?
LOL
I can't work out whether you are trying to learn about physics, or are
trying to convince people that you know about the subject.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 05:55:49 PM |
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"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:461m15F8sc1aU1@individual.net...
I can't work out whether you are trying to learn about physics, or are
trying to convince people that you know about the subject.
Learn?
silly boy,
I am here to teach and make others learn.
and sometimes "rarely" I have to make a fool of myself to
get others to learn.
LOL
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| User: "OG" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 06:31:08 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:4JCdnbE6BdzhNWbeRVn-rQ@comcast.com...
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:461m15F8sc1aU1@individual.net...
I can't work out whether you are trying to learn about physics, or are
trying to convince people that you know about the subject.
Learn?
silly boy,
I am here to teach and make others learn.
and sometimes "rarely" I have to make a fool of myself to
get others to learn.
LOL
But you show such shocking ignorance of physics!
.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 06:47:32 PM |
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"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:461pmaF8pfb2U1@individual.net...
But you show such shocking ignorance of physics!
Only to the clueless brainwashed relativists.
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| User: "T Wake" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
22 Feb 2006 01:01:49 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:LKKdnbR4QPKqK2benZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@comcast.com...
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:461pmaF8pfb2U1@individual.net...
But you show such shocking ignorance of physics!
Only to the clueless brainwashed relativists.
Well......
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| User: "Eric Gisse" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 07:26:03 PM |
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Spaceman wrote:
"OG" <owen@gwynnefamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:461m15F8sc1aU1@individual.net...
I can't work out whether you are trying to learn about physics, or are
trying to convince people that you know about the subject.
Learn?
silly boy,
I am here to teach and make others learn.
and sometimes "rarely" I have to make a fool of myself to
get others to learn.
LOL
You have nothing to teach other than how to act like a child who thinks
he knows everything.
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 05:14:08 PM |
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Spaceman,
Maybe I (as a clueless layman) can try and explain the hole in your
theory.
You state that the point of reflection can accelerate past c. Correct.
However, if the point of reflection is > c, you will NOT get photons
hitting every point of the circle. There will be GAPS.
.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
21 Feb 2006 05:54:27 PM |
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<listerofsmeg01@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1140563648.614290.22800@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Spaceman,
Maybe I (as a clueless layman) can try and explain the hole in your
theory.
You state that the point of reflection can accelerate past c. Correct.
However, if the point of reflection is > c, you will NOT get photons
hitting every point of the circle. There will be GAPS.
hmm?
why would there be gaps?
Hmmm some more..
AHA!
You may be right.
Dang.
Thought experiment busted for now..
:)
BTW: for a clueless layman, you use your brain better than
most relativists.
:)
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| User: "Timo Nieminen" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 04:23:18 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Spaceman wrote:
Ok,
hold on to your hats for this one then,
Take the laser and place it in the center of a gedanken
circle that has a circumference of 186,000 miles.
On the circumference set up a magnetic field
that can keep the proton going around in a circle.
and allow a space for the laser to shine into the magnetic
field all the way around,
start pushing the photon around the track.
what happens when the laser turns faster than 1 rev per second
if you made sure the proton is being pushed at all times.
:)
Try it and see. Don't use a gedanken circle, use a _real_ circle.
Fundamentally, you're suggesting a synchrotron. They've been built. If you
think your laser-driven synchrotron would produce a different result from
a conventional synchrotron, then go ahead and build one and prove it.
--
Timo Nieminen - Home page: http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/nieminen/
E-prints: http://eprint.uq.edu.au/view/person/Nieminen,_Timo_A..html
Shrine to Spirits: http://www.users.bigpond.com/timo_nieminen/spirits.html
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 04:35:13 PM |
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"Timo Nieminen" <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.50.0602210812270.27070-100000@localhost...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Spaceman wrote:
Ok,
hold on to your hats for this one then,
Take the laser and place it in the center of a gedanken
circle that has a circumference of 186,000 miles.
On the circumference set up a magnetic field
that can keep the proton going around in a circle.
and allow a space for the laser to shine into the magnetic
field all the way around,
start pushing the photon around the track.
what happens when the laser turns faster than 1 rev per second
if you made sure the proton is being pushed at all times.
:)
Try it and see. Don't use a gedanken circle, use a _real_ circle.
Real circles are not big enough so far.
we don't have technology that will spin fast enough without
falling apart for small circles.
Hint: a 1 mile circumference would need a spin rate
or 186,000 revs per second.
10 mile circumference would still need a spin of
18,600 revs per second.
etc..
bigger means slower revs needed and of course,
smaller means even faster revs.
So think will ya, before you say we "can" do such
already.
:)
When you can show me something that can spin a laser
or even a mirror for the laser, at that speed, let me know
and I will make it move a proton FTL.
Until then the gedanken is all you can "think" of right now.
:)
What is the highest "revs per second" motor being made today?
You can figure out the circle needed from that.
:)
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| User: "T Wake" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 04:59:05 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:7bqdnYSotdiH2WfeRVn-qw@comcast.com...
"Timo Nieminen" <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.50.0602210812270.27070-100000@localhost...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Spaceman wrote:
Ok,
hold on to your hats for this one then,
Take the laser and place it in the center of a gedanken
circle that has a circumference of 186,000 miles.
On the circumference set up a magnetic field
that can keep the proton going around in a circle.
and allow a space for the laser to shine into the magnetic
field all the way around,
start pushing the photon around the track.
what happens when the laser turns faster than 1 rev per second
if you made sure the proton is being pushed at all times.
:)
Try it and see. Don't use a gedanken circle, use a _real_ circle.
Real circles are not big enough so far.
we don't have technology that will spin fast enough without
falling apart for small circles.
Hint: a 1 mile circumference would need a spin rate
or 186,000 revs per second.
10 mile circumference would still need a spin of
18,600 revs per second.
etc..
bigger means slower revs needed and of course,
smaller means even faster revs.
So think will ya, before you say we "can" do such
already.
:)
When you can show me something that can spin a laser
or even a mirror for the laser, at that speed, let me know
and I will make it move a proton FTL.
Until then the gedanken is all you can "think" of right now.
What you are saying here then, is make something with mass (the laser) move
at c and you will show >c photons.
Interestingly pointless.
By the way, do you know what speeds and energies are achieved at CERN, or
any of the other collider places?
.
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| User: "Spaceman" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 05:16:46 PM |
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"T Wake" <taswakeAt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DeWdnW_fdMlX1GfeRVnyiw@pipex.net...
"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:7bqdnYSotdiH2WfeRVn-qw@comcast.com...
"Timo Nieminen" <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.4.50.0602210812270.27070-100000@localhost...
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Spaceman wrote:
Ok,
hold on to your hats for this one then,
Take the laser and place it in the center of a gedanken
circle that has a circumference of 186,000 miles.
On the circumference set up a magnetic field
that can keep the proton going around in a circle.
and allow a space for the laser to shine into the magnetic
field all the way around,
start pushing the photon around the track.
what happens when the laser turns faster than 1 rev per second
if you made sure the proton is being pushed at all times.
:)
Try it and see. Don't use a gedanken circle, use a _real_ circle.
Real circles are not big enough so far.
we don't have technology that will spin fast enough without
falling apart for small circles.
Hint: a 1 mile circumference would need a spin rate
or 186,000 revs per second.
10 mile circumference would still need a spin of
18,600 revs per second.
etc..
bigger means slower revs needed and of course,
smaller means even faster revs.
So think will ya, before you say we "can" do such
already.
:)
When you can show me something that can spin a laser
or even a mirror for the laser, at that speed, let me know
and I will make it move a proton FTL.
Until then the gedanken is all you can "think" of right now.
What you are saying here then, is make something with mass (the laser)
move at c and you will show >c photons.
No,
c proton,
since the photons are limited to c.
you should try to read once in a while.
The laser reflection will be able to move FTL
and if that reflection can push a proton,
the proton would "ride" the reflection at FTL.
Interestingly pointless.
No,
Only your wrong interpretation of it is.
By the way, do you know what speeds and energies are achieved at CERN, or
any of the other collider places?
Do you have any clue about anything I state at all?
No..
you don't.
If you did, you would realize this is not even about energy
being acheived at all.
And I don't care how much e/m energy you put
into a proton at CERN, it will still be limited by such energies
of the e/m speed itself.
Go blow on a driverless sailboat little boy.
sheesh!
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| User: "T Wake" |
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| Title: Re: Simple question about a laser pushing a proton. |
20 Feb 2006 05:25:23 PM |
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"Spaceman" <Realspace@comcast.not> wrote in message
news:_LCdnU2l_o1L0GfenZ2dnUVZ_sCdnZ2d@comcast.com...
"T Wake" <taswakeAt@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:DeWdnW_fdMlX1GfeRVnyiw@pipex.net...
What you are saying here then, is make something with mass (the laser)
move at c and you will show >c photons.
No,
c proton,
Ok, you think protons can go faster than light then?
since the photons are limited to c.
How does the laser beam (made up of photons) go faster than c then? Can you
explain it to a dullard like myself please?
you should try to read once in a while.
Yes.
The laser reflection will be able to move FTL
So the photons the laser is generating will move faster than c? Is that
correct?
and if that reflection can push a proton,
the proton would "ride" the reflection at FTL.
Ok. How do we get the photons in the laser to go FTL in the first place?
Interestingly pointless.
No,
Only your wrong interpretation of it is.
Oh well. I am sorry. I hadnt realised you were using special lasers which
dont fire photons.
By the way, do you know what speeds and energies are achieved at CERN, or
any of the other collider places?
Do you have any clue about anything I state at all?
Apprently not. Is that an answer to my question or just your attempt to
derail it and detour?
No..
you don't.
I said that.
If you did, you would realize this is not even about energy
being acheived at all.
And I don't care how much e/m energy you put
into a proton at CERN, it will still be limited by such energies
of the e/m speed itself.
You are confused about speed and energy. When you eat a chocolate bar, how
fast is that energy traveling to give you the energy to walk?
Go blow on a driverless sailboat little boy.
sheesh!
Well, child, when you have learned enough to be polite you can say things
like this.
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